THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION

Posted by: Svengali

THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/23/04 11:47 AM

THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION

If you post or respond to posts here, you are obliged to write in a manner that can be understood and responded to.

This involves form and content.

Form is spelling, grammar, and punctuation. There is no excuse for lacking these basic skills. If you have a hard time with this, try writing your post in Word or whatever word-processing program that came loaded in your computer. Most of these programs are designed to correct basic errors of spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

Content is the substance of your post. Just about any comment you can make is either a judgment or a call to action.

In the case of judgment, you are stating that you agree or disagree with a statement and your reasons for agreement or disagreement.

If you disagree with someone, it is because they are uninformed (lacking information), misinformed (based on wrong information), or their reasoning is flawed (they draw wrong or erroneous conclusions from the basic information), or they are incomplete in their analysis. If you disagree with someone the burden is on you to clearly state why. There is no point in just stating “I disagree” – that is just being mindlessly contentious. If you agree with someone and find it worth saying so, it also does not hurt to state why.

In the case of a call to action, you are stating what should be done or not be done and your reasons why.

If you can’t make the effort to be understood in the first place, Don’t be surprised when you get banned.

If you just “don’t care” if your post is understood, or if you are legible or coherent to anyone reading it, then why post here in the first place? Go do something more productive with yourself, like stick a butter knife into an electric socket.

The same goes to all the lot lice that immediately jump on every lame newcomer with petty nit-picking criticism. From what I’ve observed here, 99 times out of 100 you have nothing better to offer yourself.

Kindergarten dismissed!
Posted by: Drake_Bamboozle

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/23/04 12:00 PM

It's a good try, Reverend Svengali, but I am afraid that for a lot of people this is just a bridge too far. I commend your efforts though.

Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/23/04 12:26 PM

Now they cannot say that they were not warned.
Posted by: Foxred

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/24/04 05:33 AM

Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...

If I cannot read something because it it bulky and requires extensive attention, I just skip it...
Posted by: Plato

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/24/04 06:30 AM

Quote:

Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...

If I cannot read something because it it bulky and requires extensive attention, I just skip it...




But that's not an excuse for foreigners.
Those who are not good at the second-language should improve it before they use it.(not only English)

And as a foreigner, I’m always improving it.

Once I heard the Jehovah's Witness churchmen speak in Cantonese, it made me feel like my ears were raped.

So, the solution you should take is to improve it, not to loose it.
Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/24/04 09:57 AM

Quote:

Reverend, it crossed my mind that quite a few might be using their second language...




Language barriers are apparent and excusable.

Idiocy filtered through a language barrier is equally apparent but inexcusable.
Posted by: Xerx

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/29/04 05:08 AM

Superb post as usual. You expressed my idea.

Svengali for President!

Xerx
Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/29/04 06:03 AM

Quote:

Svengali for President!




Thank you for the sentiment, but I wouldn't want the job!
Posted by: CannibalSpirit

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 09/29/04 04:18 PM

Thank you.
This was obvious, but necessary.
Posted by: Shylock

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/02/04 09:04 PM

A toast to the Reverend!

Might I also add that people should cite things when they borrow from them too closely, instead of acting like the ideas were their own? Perhaps I've been writing too many research papers...damn plagiarism clauses...but people on this board should have enough respect for the folks that inspire them to give credit where it's due. Most follow through with this or indicate that they simply can't recall the source of their quotes, but still....some of the newer ones don't catch on so quickly (not a good sign).
Posted by: August-Wolfe

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/07/04 01:29 AM

Quote:

A toast to the Reverend!

Might I also add that people should cite things when they borrow from them too closely, instead of acting like the ideas were their own? Perhaps I've been writing too many research papers...damn plagiarism clauses...but people on this board should have enough respect for the folks that inspire them to give credit where it's due. Most follow through with this or indicate that they simply can't recall the source of their quotes, but still....some of the newer ones don't catch on so quickly (not a good sign).



And here is a salute to Rev. Svengali as well. Even in impassioned debate there should be, I would think, a standard of courtesy ( I'm not a straight "A" student, maybe a "B+"). Unclear statements, improper grammar and such can lead to misinterpretation. So, well said Reverend. Timely, accurate advice.
And here's to Ginger as well. Plagiarism is an unspeakable misdeed. Almost as bad is the habit of quoting someone completely out of context. Cheers.
Posted by: The_Sixth_Circle

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/09/04 04:10 AM

I agree with Svengali completely, finding it difficult to understand why people would find "talking" to other intelligent individuals in a coherent manner unimportant. Personally, I'm usually quite stringent with my use of the English language (rare for a Scot!) for I have too much respect for other posters to go on shamelessly abusing the language I enjoy speaking. In saying that, I think the odd typo or spelling/grammatical error here and there is forgiveable - constant continuance of same however, is not.

I often muse at those who say;

"I know lots of people who are very intelligent, but who are not great writers"

Oddly, I don't know any. I write down what goes through my head, thus it's a primary source of my intellect. I am not hampered by an inability to write, because I am not hampered by an inability to think. I think Dr LaVey himself said it best;

"Many people who fall back on phrases like "more than words can say", "when words are not enough", or "beyond description", simply have limited vocabularies."

Plus, if someone knew their spelling and grammar is bad yet were intelligent, surely they would have sense enough to use a spellchecker.

Just my two pence.
Posted by: Carl_Luce

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/19/04 07:51 PM

More often than not, an audience faced with linguistic slop is enabled a more important part of practical understanding:

"The man talking to me is a careless fool."

Those failing to recognize the trumping importance of grammar and precision deserve nothing short of their unwelcoming reception.

In otherwords, don't greet a king with a high five. Your "meaning" may be lost in the process.
Posted by: Captn_Thatch

Some people just don't get it - 10/30/04 01:53 PM

From a website covering the topic of logical argumentative essays.

"Example One":

Even though there may be a deceiver of some sort, very powerful and very tricky, who bends all his efforts to keep me perpetually deceived, there can be no slightest doubt that I exist, since he deceives me; and let him deceive me as much as he will, he can never make me be nothing as long as I think I am something. Thus, after having thought well on this matter, and after examining all things with care, I must finally conclude and maintain that this proposition: I am, I exist, is necessarily true every time that I pronounce it or conceive it in my mind. - Rene Descartes

Translation:

"I am a blithering idiot".

Happy Halloween.
Posted by: Skyla

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/30/04 03:19 PM

Quote:

But that's not an excuse for foreigners. Those who are not good at the second-language should improve it before they use it.(not only English)




I understand your point, but on the other hand I think the best way to improve language skills is by using it. I know my english isn't perfect and how can it be when it's not my mother tongue? That doesn't necessarly mean that I have nothing to say. I try hard to avoid mistakes by using my dictionary and I often let a friend proofread before I post, but that doesn't cover every little fault. I appreciate the patience I receive from my english speaking friends. If someone isn't willing to accept a few mistakes that can't be wipped out, he should simply ignore the person and be glad to obviously never make mistakes himself.
Posted by: Foxred

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/31/04 01:15 AM

I don't think there is such thing as "should"... It is based on different principles. Universe is too big to sustain control. Return . It's funny how thru words we can see who we are talking to ...
Posted by: Foxred

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/31/04 01:20 AM

Your English doesn't have to be perfect.
Posted by: Bedlam

Re: "using their second language" - 11/04/04 12:07 PM

I find that people using English as their second language often have a far greater grasp of it than many who deem it their first. I suspect that this is because they have taken time out to actually learn it.

There does at least seem to have been a vast reduction in the amount of "u r gr8 2nite" nonsense.
Posted by: Fiendboy5000

Re: Some people just don't get it - 11/08/04 08:23 AM

I'll bet he didnt die with any lint in his navel.
Posted by: stardust

Re: Some people just don't get it - 11/28/04 05:40 PM

Uh oh... after reading this Posting I think I'll have to edit my first Post on another thread. I will try to write correct english by now. But as I have always the problem of which word should begin with a capital letter and which not, I'd like to apologize for any errors.
Posted by: Quija

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 12/05/04 09:28 AM

As a member of another (german) newsgroup I would like to inform you, that we are discussing just the same thing: orthography! Here is a quote from a german journalist which I have posted lately, for better understanding it has been translated by Babel Fish...

"I stand firmly to my conviction that it is a first-rate charakterliche Widerwaertigkeit to make itself merry over other people spelling mistake. Is amazing, as straight people, which talked otherwise all possible irregularities or even the Anarchismus the word, bit itself over a few redundant line moose ereifern. I see a erspriesslicheres certification of people creativity in apostrophes, in places, where before ever apostrophes were not, at least as in Graffitigeschmiere at historical buildings. Orthography is a pretty thing for people, which have fun at it." Max Goldt
Posted by: BlueMoon

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 12/05/04 09:34 AM

Is that YOU, Yoda????
Posted by: Quija

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 12/05/04 10:22 AM

No, probably not. If the word "Indiependance" doesn't mean anything to you, it's not me. If you googled it and found the board, please don't join as long as you don't feel you're one of them.
Posted by: BlueMoon

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 12/05/04 10:34 AM

You didn´t get the hint.
Posted by: Schopenhauer

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 02/07/05 05:49 PM

Whaddaya?...Layer?...
Posted by: juggalolove

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 02/20/05 03:30 AM

This may be completly off topic, but I got a couple questions.

First off, I own the satanic bible and have read it. Now I love what is said inside as far as being your own god and taking responsiblty for your actions.

My question is, if I do not agree as far as worshiping satan, but agree with some of the views discussed in the book, where would that put me?

I do not worship anyone but myself. I'm asking this so I do not give a headache to those that worship satan by continuing to post.
Posted by: MagisterRose

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 02/20/05 06:00 AM

Either you did not read the book, or your reading comprehension is pathetic.

Go away!
Posted by: Satanya

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 02/23/05 01:00 PM

I have noticed one thing from an experiment I did, most people do not know what they read. This can be verified by asking them to read a page of book or one of any electronic medium, then following it, asking them to tell you about what they have just read, the results are truly amusing.
Posted by: oggi

Re: "using their second language" - 05/15/05 06:01 PM

True.
English grammar is made for elite. Everybody must learn it to be capable to read and write it, to belong this "elite".
Posted by: ThrashinHellslut

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 05/16/05 05:06 AM

Quote:


Form is spelling, grammar, and punctuation. There is no excuse for lacking these basic skills. If you have a hard time with this, try writing your post in Word or whatever word-processing program that came loaded in your computer. Most of these programs are designed to correct basic errors of spelling, grammar, and punctuation.





Ah, I know this problem from some German forums. I also don't like it, when people write phrases as numbers, like: "h3ll0 h0w 4r3 y0u?" or alternately in BiG aNd SmAlL lEtTeRs. Or those who totally ignore the German grammar.
I, myself, have to say that I sometimes got the problem to eject my exact opinion in English (for example in this forum). But at least, I'm trying to do this, sometimes with using www.leo.org
An excellent translating program

I'm also NOT the type of person who says something without any explanation or reason. These people just don't know of what a discussion lives from.
Posted by: Isabel23

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 05/16/05 09:44 AM

Thank you very much for that link.

Clear use of words is a sign of clear thinking.

All that disregard for the rules to enhance clear communication in any language is a disregard for clear thinking.

Fuzzy thinking is very popular.

It is in the power of any individual to clarify his fuzzy thinking.

There are no reasonable excuses.

HS
Posted by: oggi

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 05/18/05 02:58 PM

Quote:

Your English doesn't have to be perfect.


Then how good it has to be. I know few stammering people, and I still think that they have right to talk(becouse they can't change that), even as it annoys me. I personally draw line to there, where writer understand comment which is answering to and make text, that can be understanded.
Posted by: TM1

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 06/15/05 08:27 AM

Sorry I went to a public school. Learning to be evil was my focus. ha ha

Now I am all paranoid about my grammer.

I get the message. It is good to be alive and corrected, eh.

TM
Posted by: EroticArtisan

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 06/25/05 01:35 PM

Greetings,

I wanted to thank you for post. I can not promise You that my grammar or spelling will be flawless, but I will give it my best shot.
I am a newcomer and so far 99% of the time have found gracious welcome among the members of this board, but then I have also not started as of yet to voice my opinion or judgements on anything.
The more I read certain articles (is that correct for postings?), the more I question some of them. I have been reluctant to however disagree or offer up a question for correction.
I am one of those lesser looked at Witches. (If I understood one of the articles correctly, Witchcraft was right up there with Christianity and Wicca - which I don't appreciate at all). However I am forever in the search for more information and learning. I would love to discuss and ask some of questions. Maybe after your wonderful posting, I can find the "courage" to do so.
I do wish to become and be a productive member of this forum and after coming up with the required funds member of the CoS.
So thank you again and I hope that I did not show myself as to ignorant.
Posted by: chandler

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 07/10/05 07:30 PM

It is because of the involvement of people like you that this forum will survive. It is painful to note that many idiots read broken english with a vocabulary of only a few, monosyllabic words better than they read plain english, but your "call to action" certainly won't deprive them of the opportunity to learn their native language or simply better english.
Posted by: WinterGoat

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/05/05 02:47 PM

I must say, after dealing with so many mealy-mouthed idiots for the better part of my life, I find this attitude quite refreshing. I am very glad to have "discovered" Satanism and this message board.

HAIL MAGISTER SVENGALI!
HAIL SATAN!
Posted by: ghostgirl

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/08/05 12:58 AM

Really? You may hate me for this... but you sound like a professor lecturing his students on the proper way to submit a paper. I hope this message board does not require proper uses of punctuation and indentation????? Sorry if I offended... to many rules and regulation make a ghostgirl insane
Posted by: Discipline

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/08/05 08:24 AM

I am a bit confused, Ma'am.

Why do you complain of rules and yet you seem so determined to interact with those who follow the rules?

Not to pick on you, I am unable to understand where you are coming from on this idea.

Do those rules not make the posts cleaner and clearer? I like that aspect and I enjoy reading a well-structured post, let alone the intelligence of it.

You seem to dislike "rules.” What are rules in your definition? Everyone abides by rules throughout their life no matter how much of a dissident a person may assume he is.

Rules are part of life and they are set out for reasons. They are not drawn to make life harder or to "poop" on your parade. They are created to make things defined and understandable. If that means it is harder then so be it.

"Life is hard, work harder." That is a motto I like to take to heart.
Posted by: Cholinergic

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/08/05 09:11 AM

Quote:


I hope this message board does not require proper uses of punctuation and indentation?????





bcos riting like tis l1ke just makes fins dificult to read like and we like to understand wot ur saying like.

Proper grammar is something that should come naturally, at the least it should be done to be polite. I can't understand why people view writing in english as such a burden.
Posted by: Mjollnir

Re: Rules.. - 10/08/05 07:29 PM

Quote:

I hope this message board does not require proper uses of punctuation and indentation????? Sorry if I offended... to many rules and regulation make a ghostgirl insane




Maybe you are just in the wrong place. Did you ever think of that??? You seem to be having a hard time here. Perhaps there is a reason for this. Why is it that you feel you shouldn't have to follow the rules?

As I stated in your introduction..

Quote:

Reading through the forums here will give you a good idea of what this board is all about. Doing so will also make it clear whether this board is for you or not. Feel free to make posts and replies. Yes, there are rules, but they are there for good reasons.




Perhaps this message board is not for you, Ghost Girl.

Posted by: Hagen von Tronje

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/08/05 08:35 PM

Is it really that hard to write well? I find it much simpler than trying to use slangy "netspeak."

It may not be strictly required by forum rules that you follow correct writing procedure, but you will never be taken seriously if you cannot even muster readable, serious writing. See Dr. LaVey's humorous essay "Writter's Block".
Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 10/27/05 08:38 AM

Posts like THIS are the reason this thread was necessary:

Quote:

ryt so its all wel n gud. ur satanists hu apparently want to become one with mother earth bla bla bla...bt da question i put to u is...wat makes u think wat u put out n beleve is tru? u say u want us 'foolish' christians to listen to u n realise that wat YOU say is ryt...but how do u no? wat concrete evidence can u supply 2 me a christian dat u ppl are ryt an dat us stupid ppl are livin a lyf of untruth n misery? i challenge u...




Enough said?
Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/01/05 05:20 PM

Or this:

Quote:

how can you think that ! i am a very educated satanist.how can you derive such an insult based on a question like mine. i am simply seeking the location of cos .i visit cos .com everyday i have all of dr laveys works how could u juge me based on question of location.


Posted by: novusopiate

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/02/05 09:14 AM

I personally see it as more of a burden to type in non-standard English. Any type of "net speak" of "1337 sp34k" is not only annoying, but frankly more time consuming than establishing a clear and concise message. As a new comer not only to this forum, but forums in general, I find it sad that posts like this have become a necessity. Although, since it is needed, I thank you for pointing out this easily avoidable issue.
Posted by: Svengali

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/02/05 09:16 AM

That gibberish is like a neon sign saying “I AM A RETARD.”
Posted by: Cholinergic

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/02/05 01:33 PM

I remember when I typed in l33t for humour purposes, it took an average of 10 times my normal typing speed. I don't see the point in this "shorthand" taking longer to type. Or should I say:
1 |>0|\|7 533 T3|-| 901|\|`|` |_0|_
Posted by: CWH

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/02/05 02:32 PM

Quote:

That gibberish is like a neon sign saying “I AM A RETARD.”




My sentiments exactly.
Posted by: Tex_Talionis

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/02/05 04:01 PM

Don't forget LAZY.

Most people put that crap up to shorten simple two-to-four letter words, or any word in general.

"wot do u mean i have 2 go?"

How lazy must one be to have to shorten simple something like to?
Posted by: wonder_boy

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/07/05 04:38 AM

"I am trying too make kindergarden back"=;-)
Hail Satan!
Posted by: wonder_boy

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/07/05 07:45 AM

Thank you all for constrictive criticism:-/
Hail Satan!
Posted by: angella

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/08/05 06:51 PM

Considering I am working on getting into grad school and on a second bachelors degree..... I am going to agree that all the points you made are worthy!!!
Posted by: crackergirl

Re: THE BURDEN OF COMMUNICATION - 11/21/05 07:39 AM

Wow. I can't believe this is a real quote. What is the world coming to? I can understand a few misspellings, and some mistakes here and there, but this is nuts. And they call me a heathen.