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#102656 - 05/26/05 02:35 PM The Earth Charter
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
What is the Church of Satan's stance, if any on the Earth Charter?
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#102657 - 05/26/05 02:59 PM Re: The Earth Charter [Re: Unknown]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
I know of no official stance on this, but briefly perusing it, I can say with some confidence that it doesn't appear to share much of any philosophical ground with Satanism, at all. It sounds like the kind of egalatarian, altruistic silliness we disavow and distance ourselves from.

Sure, Satanists respect nature and permit a "live and let live" philosophy in regards to other peoples, but key to this is reciprocation. Do you expect every nation of the world would accept this? Of course not, this is another one of those ham-handed, misled philosophies that would only work in a nation (or in this case, a world) of philosophers. Take this line:

The Preamble makes clear that everyone shares responsibility for the well-being of the whole human family and the greater community of life.

Quite removed from Satanic thought. Everyone holds responsibility for their own well being and their chosen family, and nobody else.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#102658 - 05/26/05 10:24 PM Re: The Earth Charter [Re: Unknown]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041
I do not know of any official CoS position on this item.

As with Leviathan, I skimmed over it superficially. This is collectivism enforced from above. All of the terms of definition are fuzzy, to say the least. What I saw was fluffy and vague.

If you wish to know the effects on the ecology of the planet of collectivism enforced from above, just take a look at the former USSR.

When everyone is collectively responsible for anything, the result is that no one is responsible. Check out the state of the collectively managed commercial fishing industry.

In addition, it was noted that this document has been written and revised by thousands of individuals. I can guarantee that anything coming out of such a committee is worthless.

I personally doubt that there would be any workable ethical guide for the whole world comparable to the Constitution of the United States, as that document was framed for a specific population with shared values.
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Isabel
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#102659 - 05/27/05 03:56 PM A Request [Re: Unknown]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I thank you both for your sufficient answers.

I am requesting that the Moderators to keep this thread unlockled so that I can ask a few more questions when time allows.

Thanks.
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#102660 - 05/27/05 09:42 PM Re: The Earth Charter [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
The Church of Satan itself does not assume a specific political stance on such issues to the best of my knowledge.

I will venture an attempt to address what I believe the perspective of Satanism is toward this "Earth Charter", however.

This "Earth Charter" is anti-individual and anti-technology.

Satanism is pro-individual and not anti-technology. (We like our cars, air conditioning, internet access and dry martinis).

The underlying assumptions behind the ideas espoused by this "Earth Charter" include responsibility to the whole of the planet whereas Satanism advocates only "responsibility to the responsible".

This "Earth Charter" assumes that all living things have "intrinsic value" (whatever that is supposed to mean!).

Satanism suggests that there are many living things that frankly have no value at all.

Cockroaches and welfare bums quickly come to mind.

This kind of thinking strikes me as juvenile and shortsighted.

It assumes that production is not creation and that the universe is a zero sum game.

At a time in which technology is curing diseases almost daily that have plagued mankind throughout all of history, at a time in which we stand at the brink of interplanetary and interstellar space travel, at a time in which we may even be now living in the last generation of mortal human beings, I find this "Earth Charter" to be laughable at best.

It represents to my mind just about everything I find common to the thirty second sound bite herd thinking that would, if it had its way, drive us into some medieval new Dark Age with forty year life spans and no indoor plumbing.

The triumph of the maggots.

The entire faith-based religion of "save the Earth" I find to be not only humorous but a waste of time.

This kind of "Earth Charter" nonsense is not only not Satanic.

It is simply just stupid.

It will not change anything and we are damned lucky it won't.

The same principles of anti-individualism and self-sacrifice are at the heart of Christianity and the cause of the fall of the Soviet Union.

We need more of that stuff like we need swift kicks in the head with steel-capped boots!

Just my own Devilish opinion.

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#102661 - 05/27/05 09:59 PM More questons? [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Why?

What more can possibly be asked with regard to the terminally stupid?

Perhaps we could ask why people in general do not question the assumption that "all men are created equal" even when it is degraded into "all living things (bacteria? viruses? malaria-bearing mosquitoes?) are created equal".

But we already know the answer to that.

People in general believe what they are told to believe - by their peers, by authority figures, by television, etc.

People as a whole would rather be dead "right" in the eyes of their neighbors, family and friends and buried six feet, than to win in their lives and succeed in satifying their personal and selfish desires.

So people are told that it is their responsibility to "save the Earth" and to "love their fellow man" (and all other living things such as those that carry elephantiasis or leprosy, I suppose).

The Satanist says, "Bullshit".

So unless you are asking why it is that most people are so naive and self-defeating such that they believe in such fairy tale ethics, I cannot fathom what other questions would be appropriate on this hopeless topic.

Most people waste their lives trying to solve the problems of the world because they haven't a clue how to resolve their own personal problems.

Therefore they buy into the utopian nonsense that if only they could convince other people to do or not do X, Y and Z then everything will be better, the lion will lie down with the lamb, Jesus will come back and gasoline will drop down to fifty cents a gallon.

Look up at the Baphomet if you want to understand the core of Satanism. The Goat of Mendes is looking directly at the one person who can fix your own life: YOU.

I think this question is answered.

More on this topic would only be more painful.

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#102662 - 05/28/05 02:18 PM Re: The Earth Charter [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

Satanism suggests that there are many living things that frankly have no value at all.

Cockroaches and welfare bums quickly come to mind.




While I agree with you on this statement I would just like to add one thing however.

Welfare bums and cockroaches do contribute at least 1 thing to this planet. Their own demise provides the earth with a source of nutrients as their bodies decompose .
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#102663 - 05/28/05 02:20 PM Re: The Earth Charter [Re: Unknown]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Welfare bums and cockroaches do contribute at least 1 thing to this planet. Their own demise provides the earth with a source of nutrients as their bodies decompose




The problem is that they rarely die quickly enough.

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#102664 - 05/28/05 02:21 PM Anymore Questions? [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Nope, not a single one.

You hit the nail right in the Nazarene's hand .

Thanks Nemo.
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#102665 - 05/29/05 03:37 AM Re: Bums' longevity [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I have been told this is due to the consumption of Twinkies which are held by some to be non-biodegradable.

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