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#107664 - 06/22/05 10:20 AM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

This is the problem I've always seen with any of the arts. For it to be successful it requires a wide audience, so to a large extent it is reliant on herd acclaim.





Of course, I know exactly what you mean. The best way to be successful in the arts is to either flatter the masses by giving them more of what they already have, or flatter the art world by creating something specifically for them--that the public will never understand. The best way to be happy as an artist is to be an inane person, and express yourself in a manner that will appeal to other inane people.

I could make a killing painting fake Mark Rothkos to go over people's couches. Or oil paintings of flowers and landscapes. And some people actually enjoy making that crap.

I think the challenge for the artist is to find something that you genuinely enjoy creating, that other people just happen to enjoy enough to pay you for it.

Quote:

However, if I had never had a thing published, I would, of course, still be writing it!




Precisely.

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#107665 - 06/22/05 11:08 AM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
While I agree with the general sentiment of this, I hasten to add that this should never be construed as a justification for true mediocrity, via claiming that one's perceived mediocrity is in fact one's personal "elite" goals.

Satanism requires a dose of self honesty. Are you truly doing what you believe is superior, or are you only claiming superior status for less than stellar accomplishments?

I only bring this up because I have seen instances where it was argued that very poor standards indeed could be held as Satanic, if a person was only satisfied with them. I do not accept shoddy "accomplishments" as proof of superiority, most especially when the goal was made to fit the results, rather than the other way around as it should be.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#107666 - 06/22/05 11:14 AM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada


Everyone I know has all these goals in life as such:
Finish College, get a high paying job, get married, live in a big house with a few children.
The people I know who have that has the following goals:
Pay off the mortgage, pay off VISA, finish the car Payments. Put your lovely kids through school because they were denied OSAP due to your high income. And get that nice new top of the line entertainment center.

How elite is that?

My goal in life:
Get my PhD, keep going to college because I like learning, and live in a small apartment decorated with inexpensive IKEA furniture.
When I tell my goal to people, they always ask me if I plan on getting married, or having children. Any pets?
Some people I know have their future planned out to the last detail. They say they are going to marry a certain guy, they are going to have this many girls and this many boys. And the things they want just happens to be what society wants them to have.
They are always shocked when I tell them that I don't know if I want kids or not, Get married or not. If it happens it happens.
_________________________
Hi.

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#107667 - 06/22/05 11:27 AM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1810
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

I think the challenge for the artist is to find something that you genuinely enjoy creating, that other people just happen to enjoy enough to pay you for it.




I, first and foremost, paint to satisfy my own eye. When that goal is being met, I've discovered that my work is ,more often than not, also enjoyed by others.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of your own work. I recall a piece titled "Youth with a bloody nose", I believe was it, that I really enjoyed. Your use of light as well as your brushwork were very good.

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#107668 - 06/22/05 11:35 AM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Are you truly doing what you believe is superior, or are you only claiming superior status for less than stellar accomplishments?




I would say that claiming superior status is, in itself, pointless and self-congratulatory. If it is ever determined that my sense of personal pride stems from the idea that I am "superior to the herd" please slap me. And then do it again. That is how a lot of people perceive us, and if I thought for a moment that this was actually the case, I'd laugh at us too. There's nothing more comical than a bunch of people who think they are the new messiahs. It does beg the question "who the fuck are you again?"

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#107669 - 06/22/05 12:00 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: tovasshi]
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
Quote:

... and live in a small apartment decorated with inexpensive IKEA furniture.



You are joking here, aren't you?
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#107670 - 06/22/05 12:19 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
BlasphemousOne Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 1655
Loc: Connecticut, USA
An excellent read, Agent.

Another reason we can claim to be the Elite is our quest for knowledge and the truth. To know that things are not always black and white, that there is the third side, or "grey" area.

Having this helps in our pursuit of and attaining of what we want for ourselves.

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#107671 - 06/22/05 12:25 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
RustySpring Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1109
Beautiful!

Agent, I must say that without wishing to detract from your words, or 'one-up' myself, I have thought the exact same thing on many occasions.

I am quite aware - as are others, I'm sure - of what sparked this highly necessary post.

In my opinion, it really needed to be said. I probably would have given it a stab myself if it were not for the fact that you were so quick in posting it, and I’m glad you did.

Too many people still miss the point completely, whenever one speaks of the (alien) elite. A shame, indeed, but your words will hopefully help to clear up the misconceptions that pollute LttD at times.

I am a huge supporter of the idea that the Satanist should place himself above all and any form of self-evaluation, but rather should concentrate on evaluating his experiences, as well as the world around him...

[i

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#107672 - 06/22/05 12:31 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10098
I would say that claiming superior status is, in itself, pointless and self-congratulatory. If it is ever determined that my sense of personal pride stems from the idea that I am "superior to the herd" please slap me.

Do you mean this differently than to say "We are elite?" Superior and elite are typically used as synonyms.

But I am afraid I may have been unclear as to my meaning. Goals are set as a value, which the person seeks to achieve. Goals cannot, I think, simply be made to fit whatever that person achieves after the fact as a justification for being "elite." Perhaps an example will illustrate better:

If a particular person had as his most important goal, the highest degree of independence from others he could obtain, he may seek this in unorthodox ways. He may even find that he is quite comfortable living in an isolated house without air conditioning or electricity, living in a manner that "normal" people would find either unbearable or even demeaning. However, he may be content in this fashion, and may be quite productive after his own way. He has here achieved his goal admirably.

On the other hand, a person whose goal was a degree of economic success, and modern comforts, who finds himself a total failure and consequently a squatter living in a derelict shack without air conditioning or electricity, is quite the opposite of the fellow described above. While superficially they are living under similar conditions, the one above has done what he chose to do, the one here has failed miserably. I contend that this person, the squatter by failure, cannot justify his failure by altering his "goal" ex post facto, and thereby claim similar status to the self realized separatist I describe above.

Of course, goals may be honestly changed. Desires change, and sometimes the wish for something exceeds its actuality. But all other things being equal, my example stands to illustrate what I mean. To be elite or superior is to choose. To be mediocre, a failure, is to lose. Choosing to lose, once already lost, does not a Satanist make.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#107674 - 06/22/05 12:40 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

But I am afraid I may have been unclear as to my meaning. Goals are set as a value, which the person seeks to achieve. Goals cannot, I think, simply be made to fit whatever that person achieves after the fact as a justification for being "elite."




This is where we are in agreement. I think this is the caveat you were trying to make.

Quote:

Do you mean this differently than to say "We are elite?" Superior and elite are typically used as synonyms.




I knew that was coming.

That discussion could quickly become too confusing for the public forums. I think we're probably close to the same page on this.

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#107675 - 06/22/05 12:56 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Excellent post Jack.

We live in a consumer culture that evaluates most things according to “market value” – how many toys you own, etc. so our contemporaries naturally equate “elite” to financial potency or fame.

“Elite” is etymologically linked to “elect” – both meaning “chosen,” according to the OED, derived from Old French referring to persons appointed to clerical authority by Papal See.

We can invert that orientation and consider what the CoS looks for from its affiliates – that they excel in their chosen area of interest, whether it be a field of study, a branch of science or technology, business, the arts, writing, making music, collecting, or just decisively living the life they choose for themselves to live.

Most Satanists I’ve observed are “go to” guys (and gals) for one thing or another.

The “Alien Elite” are people who have, through their own abilities, achieved their personal goals outside the mainstream as much as possible.

It is too easy for the lame and halt to claim they are outside because they allegedly “chose” to take a certain path, whereas they are actually outside by default, because they were too weak or incompetent to do much of anything aside from blend into the woodwork. These are akin to those “spiritual” types who get their electric and phone cut off because they aren’t “materialistic” enough to pay their bills. They are what they are, but people claiming to be “above” the rat race, because in reality they were miles behind the lamest rats, deserve no quarter. How many of these parasitic types do we see drifting on this forum attempting to claim the outsider label of “Satanist” for themselves, only to wash out when they realize even MORE is expected from them by us than by the herd.

That is the difference between BENEATH and BEYOND the median.

As I recently said to one particularly lame specimen who crossed my path, “Just because you’ve READ The Prince doesn’t mean you ARE The Prince.”
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#107676 - 06/22/05 03:24 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Jack_Bauer]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
Mass produced pressboard furniture, how can you go wrong?
_________________________
Hi.

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#107677 - 06/22/05 04:32 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Thank you, I really enjoyed this post.

I don't really consider anyone elite. However I give certain individuals higher priority on subjects of discussion. When they have proved time and time again to have a better idea or knowledge about the subject.

Can't say that I would ever take the title of elite. I have the understanding that there is always something you can learn.

A lot of people have the opinion that taking the easy route is the route to a happy life. I tend to do things backwards, like the challenge. After all, could find myself a sugar daddy if I really wanted too.

Always being asked why I have no real ambition to travel over seas. Why I have no plans to get married or why I don't have a boyfriend. Why I haven't gone after my kids dad for child support.

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#107678 - 06/22/05 05:35 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
You know,Agt_Malebranche.....

When I see people talking about thier accomplishments etc.....I sort of just revert to a really simple saying people from the state of Missouri have.

Which is incredibly Satanic for such a redneck religious group, overall.

"SHOW ME"
_________________________
"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#107679 - 06/22/05 05:40 PM Re: What is Elite? [Re: IronCrafter]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Quote:

Conforming to a "norm" of non-conformity is the most ridiculous of conformances.




Exactly. If you are trying to be different than everybody else, then you most likely are like everybody else. Everybody wants to think that they stand out from the rest.

If being elite is your goal, then you're not. That's my opinion.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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