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#111343 - 07/09/05 11:20 PM beliefs
raven Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Connecticut
do satanists believe in reincarnation

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#111344 - 07/09/05 11:26 PM Re: beliefs [Re: raven]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
If I am not mistaken, you can find the answer to your question in The Satanic Bible.
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Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#111345 - 07/10/05 01:19 AM Okay. You asked for it. [Re: raven]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13136
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
First, Satanists do not work on the basis of "beliefs" at all. We operate from doubt as the means to achieve knowledge.

Second, reincarnation operates from the assumption that you can have or have had "past lives".

Of course this begs the question as to who or what a "past life" is anyway.

For example, you seem to have a memory of being a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944. You jot down what you recall to include the names of family members, your local Brahmin priest, the street address where you lived, who you married, when you died, etc.

Then you go to India (hot, isn't it!) and validate every one of these facts.

Does that "prove" that you were that person who died in 1944?

No it doesn't.

It only indicate that you seemed to acquire information about the life of a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944.

You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.

The tendency to identify with the mental reviews of ideas we call memory is common and is also totally unreliable.

Little wonder eyewitnesses to a crime commonly report different events.

So if you find documented evidence for a "past life" it is important to remember that this is not evidence for a "past life" at all.

It is evidence that information was seemingly acquired about someone who is now dead and that the person reporting this evidence has identified with the evidence as if it were their own.

I refer to the belief in reincarnation as "Spiritual Alzheimer's Disease".

Just break it down.

If you have ever known someone who lost their memories through senile dementia there is hardly a more tragic loss to be imagined. You watch the person forget who you are, who they are as they gradually disintergrate into nothing.

Being reborn without clear memories of who you are is indistinguishable to me from plain old fashioned materialistic death.

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.

Ask any amnesia victim regarding their opinion on this.

Being "reborn" as a new baby who must learn to walk and learn language, etc, having lost all of the links to a lifetime - name, skills, memories - is not being "reborn" at all.

It is simply dying.

Reincarnation is unworthy of attention by the thoughtful person seeking life extension or survival.

It is simply another camouflage for death.

It is a silly belief that allows those who do not carefully consider what it really means to feel comforted that they "somehow" live on.

Not at all.

At best the evidence for reincarnation points to certain psi abilities.

At worst it is another deadly self deception.

Like a belief in God, a belief in reincarnation undercuts your personal importance.

Satanism is entirely about your personal importance.

Nothing is more personal that your memories.

Reincarnation is death.
_________________________
Magister Nemo's Satanic Offerings:
DISCOVERING THE SATANIC GOD - The heart of Satanism.
THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
My second audio interview by Rev Campbell



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#111347 - 07/10/05 12:01 PM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Near Costa Mesa, California
I did enjoy this. I do not put much attention in daily life to reincarnation. The thought comes to mind, "I don't remember beginning, who is to say I won't begin again?" Then again, if I did, I wouldn't have any recollection of having lived.

Quote:

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.




I would not be me, I would be someone else. So in a sense I would still be dead. Reincarnation has always been just an after thought.

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#111348 - 07/10/05 12:21 PM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo]
Rattlesnake Offline


Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Yurop
Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.

I have been told of a guy who was muttering weird words during his sleep. His wife went a bit deeper and took him to a hypnotist. The hypnotist taped the session and sent it to a linguist who discovered that these words were actually a real language spoken by some indian tribes in the Amazon jungle. This guy had no genetic or cultural connection to those tribes, and he completely ignored their existence. Psychic abilities? Maybe. Past lives? Hardly.

When someone talks about reincarnation I always ask the question: "How is this compatible with the population increase of humans and animals?"
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Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company

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#111349 - 07/10/05 02:39 PM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Rattlesnake]
Redhead Offline


Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
Quote:

Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.








This actually happens quite often; Freud describes his experience of a meeting that didn't go the way he wanted to, and already on his way out of the room he noticed that he fabricated the actual conversation to fit his desired version.


It shows a very important fact: our memories are not the perfect "imprints" of things that happened, but our constructs, interpretations of our minds.


Fascinating .
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Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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#111350 - 07/10/05 02:57 PM Re: beliefs [Re: raven]
IronCrafter Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 733
Loc: A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
The subconscious mind works in strange and irrational ways.

As Magister Nemo has brought up,acquiring information about some other person is only that. People fear death,they come up with all sorts of hogwash to escape it's inevitability.

The "eternal spirit" had always been the most popular dodge for any sort of white light Religion to fall back on.

Can't be proved or disproved to any satisfaction.

Can you say Grasping at straws?
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"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter

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#111352 - 07/10/05 06:46 PM Re: beliefs [Re: raven]
chandler Offline


Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 41
Loc: TX, US
It is my firm understnding that belief in reincarnation is not forbidden by the doctrines of this denomination of Satanism, however Dr. Anton LaVey suggested consistently that he believed it was only possible through firm resolve of the willful ego. Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.
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Do you feel like you're being kept in the dark but can't quite put your finger on it? Well, too bad.

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#111353 - 07/10/05 07:31 PM What? [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13136
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Sorry. I forgot what you were saying.
_________________________
Magister Nemo's Satanic Offerings:
DISCOVERING THE SATANIC GOD - The heart of Satanism.
THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
My second audio interview by Rev Campbell



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#111354 - 07/10/05 07:32 PM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Quaark]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13136
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I couldn't agree more.
_________________________
Magister Nemo's Satanic Offerings:
DISCOVERING THE SATANIC GOD - The heart of Satanism.
THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
My second audio interview by Rev Campbell



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#111355 - 07/10/05 08:46 PM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo]
raven Offline


Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Connecticut
Thankyou for your reply. -raven.

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#111356 - 07/10/05 09:05 PM Re: beliefs [Re: chandler]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Quote:

Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.




This, of course, depends entirely on what is being discussed. While we may agree to disagree on the merits of certain wines and cheeses--Satanic philosophy is was it is, and is as it was written. Do not confuse theories, musings, ideas and the acceptance of certain possibilities with "beliefs." (See Magister Nemo's explanation below for greater detail.)


Edited by Agt_Malebranche (07/10/05 09:09 PM)

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#111357 - 07/10/05 09:13 PM Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: chandler]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13136
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Wrong.

There are no "denominations" of Satanism at all.

There is only Satanism.

This is it.

Get used to it.

It has been so for forty years now.
_________________________
Magister Nemo's Satanic Offerings:
DISCOVERING THE SATANIC GOD - The heart of Satanism.
THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
My second audio interview by Rev Campbell



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#111358 - 07/10/05 09:25 PM Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: Nemo]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Thank you... I completely missed that part!

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#111359 - 07/11/05 12:49 AM Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo]
Maniac Offline


Registered: 11/19/04
Posts: 14
Quote:

[...] You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.





Anyone who wishes to further explore this, I recommend Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett

While being overly long, it sure is an interesting read.

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