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beliefs #111343
07/10/05 06:20 AM
07/10/05 06:20 AM
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Connecticut
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raven Offline OP
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do satanists believe in reincarnation

Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111344
07/10/05 06:26 AM
07/10/05 06:26 AM
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New York State
False_Messiah78 Offline
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If I am not mistaken, you can find the answer to your question in The Satanic Bible.


Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team
Okay. You asked for it. [Re: raven] #111345
07/10/05 08:19 AM
07/10/05 08:19 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
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First, Satanists do not work on the basis of "beliefs" at all. We operate from doubt as the means to achieve knowledge.

Second, reincarnation operates from the assumption that you can have or have had "past lives".

Of course this begs the question as to who or what a "past life" is anyway.

For example, you seem to have a memory of being a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944. You jot down what you recall to include the names of family members, your local Brahmin priest, the street address where you lived, who you married, when you died, etc.

Then you go to India (hot, isn't it!) and validate every one of these facts.

Does that "prove" that you were that person who died in 1944?

No it doesn't.

It only indicate that you seemed to acquire information about the life of a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944.

You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.

The tendency to identify with the mental reviews of ideas we call memory is common and is also totally unreliable.

Little wonder eyewitnesses to a crime commonly report different events.

So if you find documented evidence for a "past life" it is important to remember that this is not evidence for a "past life" at all.

It is evidence that information was seemingly acquired about someone who is now dead and that the person reporting this evidence has identified with the evidence as if it were their own.

I refer to the belief in reincarnation as "Spiritual Alzheimer's Disease".

Just break it down.

If you have ever known someone who lost their memories through senile dementia there is hardly a more tragic loss to be imagined. You watch the person forget who you are, who they are as they gradually disintergrate into nothing.

Being reborn without clear memories of who you are is indistinguishable to me from plain old fashioned materialistic death.

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.

Ask any amnesia victim regarding their opinion on this.

Being "reborn" as a new baby who must learn to walk and learn language, etc, having lost all of the links to a lifetime - name, skills, memories - is not being "reborn" at all.

It is simply dying.

Reincarnation is unworthy of attention by the thoughtful person seeking life extension or survival.

It is simply another camouflage for death.

It is a silly belief that allows those who do not carefully consider what it really means to feel comforted that they "somehow" live on.

Not at all.

At best the evidence for reincarnation points to certain psi abilities.

At worst it is another deadly self deception.

Like a belief in God, a belief in reincarnation undercuts your personal importance.

Satanism is entirely about your personal importance.

Nothing is more personal that your memories.

Reincarnation is death.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111347
07/10/05 07:01 PM
07/10/05 07:01 PM
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Near Costa Mesa, California
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I did enjoy this. I do not put much attention in daily life to reincarnation. The thought comes to mind, "I don't remember beginning, who is to say I won't begin again?" Then again, if I did, I wouldn't have any recollection of having lived.

Quote:

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.




I would not be me, I would be someone else. So in a sense I would still be dead. Reincarnation has always been just an after thought.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111348
07/10/05 07:21 PM
07/10/05 07:21 PM
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Yurop
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Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.

I have been told of a guy who was muttering weird words during his sleep. His wife went a bit deeper and took him to a hypnotist. The hypnotist taped the session and sent it to a linguist who discovered that these words were actually a real language spoken by some indian tribes in the Amazon jungle. This guy had no genetic or cultural connection to those tribes, and he completely ignored their existence. Psychic abilities? Maybe. Past lives? Hardly.

When someone talks about reincarnation I always ask the question: "How is this compatible with the population increase of humans and animals?"


Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company
Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Rattlesnake] #111349
07/10/05 09:39 PM
07/10/05 09:39 PM
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Europe
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Quote:

Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.








This actually happens quite often; Freud describes his experience of a meeting that didn't go the way he wanted to, and already on his way out of the room he noticed that he fabricated the actual conversation to fit his desired version.


It shows a very important fact: our memories are not the perfect "imprints" of things that happened, but our constructs, interpretations of our minds.


Fascinating .


Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111350
07/10/05 09:57 PM
07/10/05 09:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
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A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
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IronCrafter Offline
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The subconscious mind works in strange and irrational ways.

As Magister Nemo has brought up,acquiring information about some other person is only that. People fear death,they come up with all sorts of hogwash to escape it's inevitability.

The "eternal spirit" had always been the most popular dodge for any sort of white light Religion to fall back on.

Can't be proved or disproved to any satisfaction.

Can you say Grasping at straws?


"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter
Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111352
07/11/05 01:46 AM
07/11/05 01:46 AM
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TX, US
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It is my firm understnding that belief in reincarnation is not forbidden by the doctrines of this denomination of Satanism, however Dr. Anton LaVey suggested consistently that he believed it was only possible through firm resolve of the willful ego. Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.


Do you feel like you're being kept in the dark but can't quite put your finger on it? Well, too bad.
What? [Re: ] #111353
07/11/05 02:31 AM
07/11/05 02:31 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
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Sorry. I forgot what you were saying.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Quaark] #111354
07/11/05 02:32 AM
07/11/05 02:32 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
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I couldn't agree more.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111355
07/11/05 03:46 AM
07/11/05 03:46 AM
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Connecticut
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raven Offline OP
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Thankyou for your reply. -raven.

Re: beliefs [Re: chandler] #111356
07/11/05 04:05 AM
07/11/05 04:05 AM
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Posts: 4,136
Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
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Oregon
Quote:

Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.




This, of course, depends entirely on what is being discussed. While we may agree to disagree on the merits of certain wines and cheeses--Satanic philosophy is was it is, and is as it was written. Do not confuse theories, musings, ideas and the acceptance of certain possibilities with "beliefs." (See Magister Nemo's explanation below for greater detail.)

Last edited by Agt_Malebranche; 07/11/05 04:09 AM.
Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: chandler] #111357
07/11/05 04:13 AM
07/11/05 04:13 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
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Wrong.

There are no "denominations" of Satanism at all.

There is only Satanism.

This is it.

Get used to it.

It has been so for forty years now.

Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: Nemo] #111358
07/11/05 04:25 AM
07/11/05 04:25 AM
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Posts: 4,136
Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
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Thank you... I completely missed that part!

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111359
07/11/05 07:49 AM
07/11/05 07:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Maniac Offline
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Quote:

[...] You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.





Anyone who wishes to further explore this, I recommend Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett

While being overly long, it sure is an interesting read.

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