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beliefs #111343
07/10/05 06:20 AM
07/10/05 06:20 AM
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Connecticut
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raven Offline OP
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do satanists believe in reincarnation

Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111344
07/10/05 06:26 AM
07/10/05 06:26 AM
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New York State
False_Messiah78 Offline
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If I am not mistaken, you can find the answer to your question in The Satanic Bible.


Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team
Okay. You asked for it. [Re: raven] #111345
07/10/05 08:19 AM
07/10/05 08:19 AM
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Nemo Offline
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First, Satanists do not work on the basis of "beliefs" at all. We operate from doubt as the means to achieve knowledge.

Second, reincarnation operates from the assumption that you can have or have had "past lives".

Of course this begs the question as to who or what a "past life" is anyway.

For example, you seem to have a memory of being a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944. You jot down what you recall to include the names of family members, your local Brahmin priest, the street address where you lived, who you married, when you died, etc.

Then you go to India (hot, isn't it!) and validate every one of these facts.

Does that "prove" that you were that person who died in 1944?

No it doesn't.

It only indicate that you seemed to acquire information about the life of a streetsweeper who died in India in 1944.

You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.

The tendency to identify with the mental reviews of ideas we call memory is common and is also totally unreliable.

Little wonder eyewitnesses to a crime commonly report different events.

So if you find documented evidence for a "past life" it is important to remember that this is not evidence for a "past life" at all.

It is evidence that information was seemingly acquired about someone who is now dead and that the person reporting this evidence has identified with the evidence as if it were their own.

I refer to the belief in reincarnation as "Spiritual Alzheimer's Disease".

Just break it down.

If you have ever known someone who lost their memories through senile dementia there is hardly a more tragic loss to be imagined. You watch the person forget who you are, who they are as they gradually disintergrate into nothing.

Being reborn without clear memories of who you are is indistinguishable to me from plain old fashioned materialistic death.

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.

Ask any amnesia victim regarding their opinion on this.

Being "reborn" as a new baby who must learn to walk and learn language, etc, having lost all of the links to a lifetime - name, skills, memories - is not being "reborn" at all.

It is simply dying.

Reincarnation is unworthy of attention by the thoughtful person seeking life extension or survival.

It is simply another camouflage for death.

It is a silly belief that allows those who do not carefully consider what it really means to feel comforted that they "somehow" live on.

Not at all.

At best the evidence for reincarnation points to certain psi abilities.

At worst it is another deadly self deception.

Like a belief in God, a belief in reincarnation undercuts your personal importance.

Satanism is entirely about your personal importance.

Nothing is more personal that your memories.

Reincarnation is death.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111347
07/10/05 07:01 PM
07/10/05 07:01 PM
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Near Costa Mesa, California
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I did enjoy this. I do not put much attention in daily life to reincarnation. The thought comes to mind, "I don't remember beginning, who is to say I won't begin again?" Then again, if I did, I wouldn't have any recollection of having lived.

Quote:

If your memories are gone SO ARE YOU.




I would not be me, I would be someone else. So in a sense I would still be dead. Reincarnation has always been just an after thought.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111348
07/10/05 07:21 PM
07/10/05 07:21 PM
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Yurop
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Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.

I have been told of a guy who was muttering weird words during his sleep. His wife went a bit deeper and took him to a hypnotist. The hypnotist taped the session and sent it to a linguist who discovered that these words were actually a real language spoken by some indian tribes in the Amazon jungle. This guy had no genetic or cultural connection to those tribes, and he completely ignored their existence. Psychic abilities? Maybe. Past lives? Hardly.

When someone talks about reincarnation I always ask the question: "How is this compatible with the population increase of humans and animals?"


Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company
Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Rattlesnake] #111349
07/10/05 09:39 PM
07/10/05 09:39 PM
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Europe
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Quote:

Quote:

however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.





Yes, I have seen this happen to others. It has even happened to me once, I had confused something that happened with something that I wanted to happen and somehow I subconsciously "remembered" the later as real. Spooky.








This actually happens quite often; Freud describes his experience of a meeting that didn't go the way he wanted to, and already on his way out of the room he noticed that he fabricated the actual conversation to fit his desired version.


It shows a very important fact: our memories are not the perfect "imprints" of things that happened, but our constructs, interpretations of our minds.


Fascinating .


Hail Satan! If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111350
07/10/05 09:57 PM
07/10/05 09:57 PM
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A Harsh Reality ,Wa USA
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The subconscious mind works in strange and irrational ways.

As Magister Nemo has brought up,acquiring information about some other person is only that. People fear death,they come up with all sorts of hogwash to escape it's inevitability.

The "eternal spirit" had always been the most popular dodge for any sort of white light Religion to fall back on.

Can't be proved or disproved to any satisfaction.

Can you say Grasping at straws?


"Life is an objective-achieve it." "Be who you are and say what you feel,because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr Suess My home page featuring my work can be found here. HS! Crafter
Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111352
07/11/05 01:46 AM
07/11/05 01:46 AM
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TX, US
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It is my firm understnding that belief in reincarnation is not forbidden by the doctrines of this denomination of Satanism, however Dr. Anton LaVey suggested consistently that he believed it was only possible through firm resolve of the willful ego. Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.


Do you feel like you're being kept in the dark but can't quite put your finger on it? Well, too bad.
What? [Re: ] #111353
07/11/05 02:31 AM
07/11/05 02:31 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
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Sorry. I forgot what you were saying.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Quaark] #111354
07/11/05 02:32 AM
07/11/05 02:32 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
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I couldn't agree more.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111355
07/11/05 03:46 AM
07/11/05 03:46 AM
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Connecticut
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raven Offline OP
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Thankyou for your reply. -raven.

Re: beliefs [Re: chandler] #111356
07/11/05 04:05 AM
07/11/05 04:05 AM
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Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
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Quote:

Not all Satanists agree with Dr. LaVey on this point; agreeing to disagree seems to be an integral part of Satanism with which we cannot easily dispense.




This, of course, depends entirely on what is being discussed. While we may agree to disagree on the merits of certain wines and cheeses--Satanic philosophy is was it is, and is as it was written. Do not confuse theories, musings, ideas and the acceptance of certain possibilities with "beliefs." (See Magister Nemo's explanation below for greater detail.)

Last edited by Agt_Malebranche; 07/11/05 04:09 AM.
Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: chandler] #111357
07/11/05 04:13 AM
07/11/05 04:13 AM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
Nemo Offline
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Wrong.

There are no "denominations" of Satanism at all.

There is only Satanism.

This is it.

Get used to it.

It has been so for forty years now.

Re: "this denomination of Satanism" [Re: Nemo] #111358
07/11/05 04:25 AM
07/11/05 04:25 AM
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Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
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Thank you... I completely missed that part!

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111359
07/11/05 07:49 AM
07/11/05 07:49 AM
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Quote:

[...] You may protest that these were "your" memories however psychological research studies of memories have demonstrated that events that never happened can become "real" memories in your experience.

Memories are not records. They are processes.





Anyone who wishes to further explore this, I recommend Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett

While being overly long, it sure is an interesting read.

Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111361
07/11/05 04:39 PM
07/11/05 04:39 PM
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My father once told me that when I was a small boy, that sometimes I would cry out or speak in German. Does this mean that I was a German person in a previous life? No. Does it mean that the idea of reincarnation is real? No. It means my father doesn't speak German and just assumed gibberish was German. Hoping to live after you die is a waste of the life you have.

Last edited by Jack_Lantern; 07/11/05 04:48 PM.

"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
Re: beliefs [Re: Jack_Lantern] #111362
07/11/05 11:12 PM
07/11/05 11:12 PM
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Atlanta, GA.
Bruja Offline

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Quote:

Hoping to live after you die is a waste of the life you have.






True....sadly, it is often an individuals excuse to not make anything of themselves. Believing they will get another chance is a good way to help them sleep at night.


Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde
Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111363
07/13/05 06:42 AM
07/13/05 06:42 AM
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San Josť, Costa Rica.
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The existence of reincarnation is like many...Did you say beliefs?.. Something we know nothing about, and as such, nothing that should shape your life in any way. If it is there, it won`t change a damn thing in THIS life.
If you "remember" something as if through the eyes and skin of another person, whoever it may be, then good, learn from your mistakes and victories as this... let`s say alter-ego. But don`t waste your time investigating if it was a past life or not.
If I have some strange "memories" and I don`t learn from them, unless I write them down into a bestseller, they are of no use whatsoever, no matter where they come from.
Live from life, not from death.


"Say a lie, don't live one"
Re: beliefs [Re: Bruja] #111364
07/23/05 07:43 PM
07/23/05 07:43 PM
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Lisle, IL U.S.A.
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Quote:

Quote:

Hoping to live after you die is a waste of the life you have.






True....sadly, it is often an individuals excuse to not make anything of themselves. Believing they will get another chance is a good way to help them sleep at night.




I agree as well.

Hoping to live after you die is like wishing you could die.

I feel that a belief in reincarnation is a major cause for suicidal behavior among weak individuals.


"Never forget that you are a woman, and the greatest powers you can employ as a witch are totally dependent upon your own self-realization that in being a woman you are different from a man and that very difference must be exploited!"
~ Anton LaVey
Re: beliefs [Re: Barb] #111365
07/23/05 08:26 PM
07/23/05 08:26 PM
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The Deep South
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Quote:

I feel that a belief in reincarnation is a major cause for suicidal behavior among weak individuals.




Yeah, but usually those religions have "penalties" for the suicidal. Some believe those who kill themselves will come back as trees (so dogs will pee on them) or as blind people (same, they will have dogs around)

According to other versions, the suicidal are punished to reincarnate with the same exact problems they had in the previous life, so they have to confront them (or suicide again a keep going in circles)

Anyways, itís all just silly. I know perfectly when I die I will "re-incarnate" as a bunch of engorged maggots.


You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein

Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111366
07/24/05 07:31 PM
07/24/05 07:31 PM
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Lisle, IL U.S.A.
Barb Offline
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Quote:

do satanists believe in reincarnation




Do I believe in reincarnation? No. So what do I think happens when we die? I donít know, but I can take a guess. There was a time once when I didnít exist. Or did I really NOT exist? I do not know what it could have felt like to not exist. Maybe I was a bunch of particles spread out all over in the Universe, and then those particles came together to form me. So maybe when I die, I will break up into a bunch of particles and be like I was before my life began.

As for thinking you have memories of a past life, I think that perhaps those ďmemoriesĒ are just DREAMS you remember from your early childhood, but you forgot the fact that they were dreams, because you donít remember waking up after them. It can be difficult for many people to remember back to the time they were one or two years old. I actually remember a few of my dreams I had when I was a baby. One of them was about where I was floating around in space, with all the stars and planets all around me. One of them from when I was about two years old was about how I went down into a basement in someone elseís house by myself and saw an old record player in the middle of the room, playing an old song, and a doll was lying on its back on top of the clear plastic record player cover, and it scared the crap out of me. If I didnít know that this was a dream, then I would probably think it was a memory from a past life.


"Never forget that you are a woman, and the greatest powers you can employ as a witch are totally dependent upon your own self-realization that in being a woman you are different from a man and that very difference must be exploited!"
~ Anton LaVey
Re: beliefs [Re: Barb] #111367
07/24/05 07:55 PM
07/24/05 07:55 PM
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Sacramento, CA U.S.A.
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When you sleep w/o dreaming, that is as close to death as you'll get this side of the hole in the ground. The french call Death: Petite Morte (Sp?) The small Death.


"Snarfl, Snarfl, Piffig"
Re: beliefs [Re: chimera] #111368
07/28/05 02:45 AM
07/28/05 02:45 AM
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Virginia
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Quote:

When you sleep w/o dreaming, that is as close to death as you'll get this side of the hole in the ground. The french call Death: Petite Morte (Sp?) The small Death.




Actually, I am pretty sure it is orgasm that the French call "Petit Morte".


Hail Satan!


"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire

Re: beliefs [Re: Old_Pig] #111369
07/28/05 02:49 AM
07/28/05 02:49 AM
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Virginia
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Quote:

Anyways, itís all just silly. I know perfectly when I die I will "re-incarnate" as a bunch of engorged maggots.




Pig, you just have a great way of getting right to the heart of everything!


Hail Satan!


"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire

Re: beliefs [Re: Barb] #111370
07/28/05 05:31 AM
07/28/05 05:31 AM
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I hope I cease to be. All good things come to an end.

Sometimes I've thought that reincarnation was a way for people to explain the flaws in karma. Sometimes people dont 'get thiers' and sometimes people dont get anything good in return for their good deeds. What better way to explain it than to say its punishment for a past life of causing harm?


One stupid post too many.
Re: beliefs [Re: uncleherpe] #111371
07/28/05 04:44 PM
07/28/05 04:44 PM
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America
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Not only that, but if reincarnation were true, that means that this life is the afterlife, and your spending the afterlife, thats right, worried about the after life! It's just nonsense plain and simple.


"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin
Karma Chameleon? [Re: uncleherpe] #111372
07/31/05 11:59 AM
07/31/05 11:59 AM
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Helsinki, Finland.
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Quote:

Sometimes I've thought that reincarnation was a way for people to explain the flaws in karma. Sometimes people dont 'get thiers' and sometimes people dont get anything good in return for their good deeds. What better way to explain it than to say its punishment for a past life of causing harm?




The idea of reincarnation and karma is laughable. Imagine the situation: Hermann Goering dies and is re-incarnated as an Office Worker in Helsinki. The Office Worker is a regular, normal person, and he has no memory of being a nazi in his previous life. So, this poor bastard keeps wondering why the fuck his life is so damn hard, and why he is put through the mill day in, day out, since he was born.

Basically, the poor asshole is having to pay for the sins of his previous self, of which he has no knowledge. How fucked up is that?

The sins of the father should not be passed down to the son. If that IS what happens, then there is some seriously fucked up deity at work 'Beyond the veil.'

Okay. The Occult Truth. Revealed. At Last! [Re: raven] #111373
08/01/05 04:36 AM
08/01/05 04:36 AM
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Nemo Offline
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Reincarnation happens every time you go back out for a drive.

After all, if you don't get back into the car how the hell can you expect to drive it!

Break it down:

Re * in-car * nation : The act of getting back into the car.

In automotive circles the genetic cause of this event is known as the Mother of Cars or ... Kar-Ma!



Those of you cursed with memory of truly bad TV sitcoms can recall the source of this occult truth as revealed in:

"My Mother The Car".

Thus every time anyone gets into a car to go for a drive they experience reincarnation.

This Satanic Fact has been brought to you by Karma Brothers Automotive.

"When you want a good car, reincarnate with Karma!"


Re: beliefs [Re: raven] #111374
08/01/05 10:58 AM
08/01/05 10:58 AM
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Canada
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Quote:

do satanists believe in reincarnation



Not only is that a difficult and complicated question to speak on, but my opinion only says so much to convince you.

I believe that reincarnation has to do with anything spiritual, implying the fact that our "souls/spirits"(Anyone who believes that) are prior to our bodies,
And it can be a possibility for an 'after-life'(Which I'm basing this on), I believe in reincarnation but on another planet, and I don't think I can get there on my own either. So let's make the most of what we've received here, my AlienElites.


Teaching children to worship supernatural phenomena
Re: Okay. The Occult Truth. Revealed. At Last! [Re: Nemo] #111375
08/02/05 12:56 AM
08/02/05 12:56 AM
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You never fail to make me laugh Magister Nemo.

Re: Okay. You asked for it. [Re: Nemo] #111376
08/02/05 06:38 AM
08/02/05 06:38 AM
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New York State
False_Messiah78 Offline
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From a strictly scientific standpoint their is some sort of reincarnation:
Matter can not be created nor destroyed - it only changes form.
Therefore, when your body decomposes it becomes something else - dirt, grass, - perhaps even part of another living being.

So physically, yes, your body gets 'reincarnated'. Spiritually, however, who knows, who cares. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But either way, it has no effect on the way I live TODAY.

To me, thinking or believing in reincarnation in the spiritual sense falls under the category of "spiritual pipe dreams". And we all know how Magus LaVey felt about those!


Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team
Re: Okay. The Occult Truth. Revealed. At Last! [Re: Nemo] #111377
08/06/05 05:43 PM
08/06/05 05:43 PM
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Lisle, IL U.S.A.
Barb Offline
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See ya later. I'm going out to get re-in-car-nated.


"Never forget that you are a woman, and the greatest powers you can employ as a witch are totally dependent upon your own self-realization that in being a woman you are different from a man and that very difference must be exploited!"
~ Anton LaVey
Re: More Car-ma [Re: Barb] #111378
08/06/05 11:52 PM
08/06/05 11:52 PM
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Point Nemo in Pacific Ocean
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On the road of life don't get TIRE-d.

Reincarnation - the retread approach to the afterlife!

Re: More Car-ma [Re: Nemo] #111379
08/07/05 07:10 PM
08/07/05 07:10 PM
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Lisle, IL U.S.A.
Barb Offline
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As you say
"If you are bored with life [...you] are somewhat dead[.]

And if you get tire-d of life, you will be dead.

Excitement and enthusiasm makes you live forever!


"Never forget that you are a woman, and the greatest powers you can employ as a witch are totally dependent upon your own self-realization that in being a woman you are different from a man and that very difference must be exploited!"
~ Anton LaVey
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