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#113243 - 07/16/05 01:03 AM Re: Stupid. stupid, STUPID. [Re: VKat]
redgriffin Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 211
I believe they are referring to people who are devil worshippers, basically sharing the belief structure of a christian but being in league with the devil. Or as I like to say, the devils cheerleaders

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#113244 - 07/16/05 01:13 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Okay.

So if I get this right, a kid dresses up like a poster child for Hot Topic. And then proceeds to advertise that he's a "card-carrying" Satanist, when he isn't, and then gets his ass kicked for it?

Sounds like just desserts to me.

The little wretch should have never let "I'm a Satanist.", slip past his lips if he wasn't affiliated. The fact that he got thumped just proves that he's some kind of masochist. Perhaps he's a wimp and can't fight, or perhaps those boots with four inch clog heels wouldn't let him get up enough speed to run away.

Reverend Svengali is correct in his assessment. The Church of Satan should have never been mentioned at all. It just serves to perpetuate the errored sterotype that Satanists are wimpy little goth kids. Apparently, Romano missed the Eleventh Satanic Rule.
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#113245 - 07/16/05 01:18 AM For the Record - Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
Before we go and rehash this whole issue yet again, I would like to point newer users to this thread, in which many members of the Church of Satan heirarchy responded to this case in-depth for a Village Voice reporter. Yes, folks, reporters do visit these boards--which is yet another reason why it's an especially smart idea to mind one's manners in this very public space.

On a personal note, regardless of how many of us feel about hate crimes laws or the fashion sense of the young fellow in question, it is worth noting two things:

1. Several law enforcement officials acknowledged the fact that Satanism is a valid religion protected like any other. Bravo to them for dealing in the realm of facts and rules, not fantasy and hysteria.

2. CNN, a leading mainstream media outlet with a global presence, made an effort to present Satanism as it is, in a fairly neutral light. Many people in powerful positons would surely prefer that Satanism be dismissed, demeaned or portrayed in a sensationalistic manner. This is the second time this year that CNN has published (mostly) accurate information about Satanism. CNN deserves an Infernal cookie for journalistic integrity, a code that is very nearly dead and buried.

Hail Satan!

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#113246 - 07/16/05 02:04 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
Really, although I still think this kid is a dumbass, this is ridiculous.

I can think of half a dozen applicable charges that were never raised against these kids. They should have gotten prison time.

What if a group of Nazis had put this kind of beatdown on a Jewish boy? I'm not saying this kid didn't do something to draw unwanted attention, but nevertheless, the scumbags who commit assaults shouldn't get off the hook because they picked a dimwit to attack.

I'm not sure if I am slightly placated by the token nod the media and courts have given us, or pissed that this has resulted in a great deal of injustice. An ordinary assault (without the claims of "hate crime") would have probably garnered a stiffer sentence.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#113247 - 07/16/05 02:51 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
My opinion does not differ much from what has been posted here already.

This kid was an idiot, plain and simple. If you're a Jew, you don't display your Star of David necklace in front of a group of skinheads with swastika tattoos. For Satanists, the group that strongly disapproves of us is much larger. All the more reason to keep our religious affiliations on a need-to-know basis. While I do admit that I do sometimes where a Baphomet charm on a necklace out in public, it is small and always tucked under my clothing. Only two people I know personally know that I am a Satanist, and one of them is a Satanist himself. I prefer to keep it that way. Satanism asks no one to be a martyr, and I'm sure as hell not going to volunteer for the position.

Hate crime laws have their advantages and disadvantages. While I do believe that, for the most part, a crime should be punished based on its severity and not its motivations, I also believe that bigots should be punished more harshly because they are assholes and I do not like them. Of course, these laws could and I am sure have been used improperly. A prosecutor jockeying for media attention and wanting to advance his or her career, political or otherwise, could conceivably use these laws to charge a white or black offender who beat up a man of seperate race because he was sleeping with his girlfriend or wife with a hate crime. After all, headlines of hate crimes sell a lot more newspapers and have many more people watching the evening news than the same old story about a jealous lover assaulting the object of his aggression.

Also, the kid should not have told others that he was a CoS member when he wasn't. I don't think that I have to explain why that is wrong.

This why people who are likely to get attacked should learn how to defend themselves. If anyone ever attacked me, no matter what the motivation, I'd have no quams about bashing their fucking face in.

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#113248 - 07/16/05 05:58 AM HAIL [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Hail to the best response this thread has seen!
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#113249 - 07/16/05 06:02 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Felstorm]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
The little wretch should have never let "I'm a Satanist.", slip past his lips if he wasn't affiliated.

One does not need to affiliate with the Church of Satan in order to be a Satanist.

And just a reminder to any out there,
The Church of Satan does not solicit affiliation!
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#113250 - 07/16/05 06:02 AM Re: Hate Crimes [Re: Mjollnir]
Magui Offline


Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 23
Loc: San José, Costa Rica.
Quote:


The world isn't neccessarily ready to embrace Satan.. Use some discretion and you'll be okay. Rubbing Satan in a Christian's face is likely to ignite some unwanted attention.. perhaps of the metal pipe variety.

A brainwashed mind, backed by popular opinion, can be a very dangerous thing, indeed.




Unless the christian knows you can defend yourself effectively. Everyone looking to "scream out" something that causes controversy, not just satanism, should be able and ready to defend him/herself, or have charm and wit so that people will overlook his differences, or both.
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#113251 - 07/16/05 06:18 AM Re: For the Record - Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Agt. Malebranche, I see your point.

If I look at that article from the perspective of an intelligent outsider, aside from whatever might ring true from the couple quotes off the CoS website, I walk away with two things (both misinformation):

1. That this goth idiot who got his ass kicked was actually affiliated with the CoS, thus somewhat representative.

2. By twice referring to Romano as a member of the CoS, then saying the CoS is trying to distance itself from him, it makes the CoS look like an organization that talks out of both sides of its mouth.

Misinformation propagated by sloppy journalism.
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Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
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#113252 - 07/16/05 06:25 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Mason_Rust]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

The little wretch should have never let "I'm a Satanist.", slip past his lips if he wasn't affiliated.

One does not need to affiliate with the Church of Satan in order to be a Satanist.

And just a reminder to any out there,
The Church of Satan does not solicit affiliation!




He did not just claim to be a “satanist” – there is reason to believe he falsely represented himself as a CoS affiliate.

Early news articles about this incident referred to Romano as a card-carrying member of the Church of Satan, and even specifically mentioned the NY Man in Black Grotto. Where did the journalists get that idea if not from Romano?

I’m not saying the perps don’t deserve punishment. But I am saying this is a case of dumb vs. dumber.

It is unfortunate that the CoS was dragged into this pathetic drama at all.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#113253 - 07/16/05 07:33 AM Re: Stupid. stupid, STUPID. [Re: Insurgent]
TheAbyss Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Helsinki, Finland.
Quote:

Wearing an inverted cross is no more asking for it than wearing a Baphomet. Being a Jew isn't asking to have a Swastika carved into your forehead.




I disagree. In a country where The Passion Of Christ took more money than any of the first 4 Batman movies, it seems rather stupid to take the symbol of one religion, invert it and then publicly flaunt it. I wear a small Baphomet pendant on a regular basis and so far no-one has even remotely suggested the fact that it is Satanic. (Okay, i had one person say "Cool! I like Monster Magnet as well, dude!" but that is another thing.)

It would be a very small majority of the public that recognises the Baphomet as being Satanic, and an even smaller number that would openly take offence.

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#113254 - 07/16/05 11:23 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Svengali]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

He did not just claim to be a “satanist” – there is reason to believe he falsely represented himself as a CoS affiliate.





An article from the NY Daily News included the following:

Romano, who suffered a gash to his head and a few bruises, claimed to be a member of the Manhattan-based Church of Satan, a nonreligious group that has thousands of members. But the controversial group's head "priest" told The News that Romano was lying.

I agree with your initial assessment - this was, simply, a collision of dumbasses.
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#113255 - 07/16/05 11:28 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
Klogg Offline


Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 29
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
These kids should've never gotten off that easy. The judge probably shared similar distaste for the "goth kid" but knew he couldn't just let the other kids off.Like most people in this country the judge probably has a vague sense of the xtian faith.

Regardless, its still a crime. And it's a bad thing that the CoS name was even mentioned. The kid fits the stereotype...
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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." - D.H. Lawrence *** HAIL SATAN!

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#113256 - 07/16/05 11:50 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: TR966]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
"The D.A. may call this a hate crime, but really, it's just a case of some kids acting dumb and beating up another kid who was a bit of an oddball," Leff said.

So it's only really wrong to beat up people who *aren't* oddballs?

And, isn't the root and point of a hate crime the fact that the victim is usually considered an "oddball" or different through the eyes of the attackers? Duh?

Jesus, what an arse.

I agree with others here that the two offenders got off easy, most likely because the judge and others trivialized the attack because they disliked the victim. If this kid had been black, the offenders would not have just gotten 150 hours of community service, I reckon.

Of course, it goes without saying that this is a lesson to Satanists to watch out and be prepared, especially if one dresses or acts unusually in the public eye. Naturally, the fact that he kid was weird *does not* justify the offenders' contemptible behavior, of course, but when you're the one getting beaten up, who's right and who's wrong don't really matter.

And, we all agree that Romano played this very, very poorly, and had a very weak "plan of attack" in this court case.
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"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#113257 - 07/16/05 11:55 AM Re: For the Record - Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Svengali]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
I always expect the worst when it comes to media coverage of Satanism, and this definitely could have been much, much worse. Individual incidents will be forgotten, but underneath the issues, a decent perception of the tenets of the CoS is being crafted in the collective subconscious.

The worst thing about the coverage, I agree, is the confusion and misinformation regarding Romano's membership status. While they never said that he was a member, the repetition of his false claim made the CoS denial seem dubious--even though it was straightforward from the get-go and never wavered.

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