Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5
Topic Options
#113273 - 07/18/05 10:03 PM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Old_Pig]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

It's not "bullshit", it's "life" and it's highest law is "survival of the fittest".




Yes that is life and we have to deal with it. However, acting like a common street thug is not survival of the fittest in my opinion. Starting fights with people just because you don't agree with thier beliefs or you don't like the way they look is just weakness and ignorance. So is robbing people because you don't have the ambition, skills or intelligence to get a job. Which is why common street thugs will always remain lower life forms.

I am proud of who I am and I've worn my Baphomet out in public. However, I'm reasonable and smart enough not to let counter-productive pride cloud my judgement in certain situations. There is a time and a place for everything. I wouldn't wear my Baphomet to a job interview or in a hostile environment that would bring negative attention to myself. Does that make me less of a Satanist? NO, it doesn't. It's lesser magic. And I think that was Danny Romano's mistake. He lacked good judgement and lesser magic. I don't think he deserved a blow to the head for it though. There are too many other lower life forms on this planet that deserve that.


Edited by Carkosa (07/18/05 10:13 PM)

Top
#113274 - 07/18/05 10:47 PM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Carkosa]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
I never said it was right. I just said it was real.

That's the reality of life. You go out and you can find yourself in a violent situation (deserved or undeserved) so you better be prepared to fight for your survival.

In the case of the guy with his dyed hair and inverted cross, he attracted the attention of the wrong crowd.

I don't approve the idiot's who attacked him, they certainly deserve a harder punishment than they got. But I don’t have any sympathy for the "victim" either. He collected the fruit of his stupidity
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#113275 - 07/19/05 12:12 PM Re: Stupid. stupid, STUPID. [Re: TheAbyss]
Raf_G Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Central America
I don´t see why "he was asking for it". Some people just feel good wearing an upside down cross. It does not mean much for me, personally, but I don´t mind if someone wears one or if someone finds some kind of pleasure from wearing or using it. And that does not mean you are playing inverse christianism necessarily.

But that is just my opinion...

Hail Yourself!!
_________________________
Hail Yourself!!

Hail Satan!!!

Top
#113276 - 07/19/05 12:14 PM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Old_Pig]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I think it's both.

Yes, it is bullshit. So many of the things humans do to assault one another are needless, pointless, and utterly uncalled for---that is, bullshit. Many people in society--myself included--manage to restrain any desires they may have to kill, maim, or rob others, so self-restraint is not some nebulous, unattainable goal. Most humans are certainly capable of even marginally better behavior, so we should not become so jaded or cynical that we lose sight of that fact and that standard.

But, it's also a fact of life. Calling it "bullshit" will not make it clear up or go away, and if you're the one being attacked, labeling the event as "bullshit" isn't going to do you a lot of good there. So, you have to buckle down and prepare for the bullshit, and realize that just because it's dumb or bad or irrational doesn't make it less real or imminent.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#113277 - 07/19/05 02:45 PM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime?? [Re: TR966]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
After reading all responses, I truly believe that justice was not served, like LeviathanXIII said "They should of gotten prison time". Agent Malebranche says: “Several law enforcement officials acknowledged the fact that Satanism is a valid religion protected like any other.” I whole-heartedly agree, but was this a “hate crime”?

If I was to call some fat guy on the street Buddha then beat him-up would this be considered “hate crime”, most likely not. Should prison time be give to me, hell yes, it was after all an assault…

Mister White said it best: “I don't care if he was a Church of Satan member or not even a Pseudo-Satanist, what happened is socially reprehensible.”

“Justice-for-all” , Let punishment fit the crime… They assaulted, let’em get assaulted in prison…



That is all.
_________________________
HS! G We have wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice , or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. By Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988 PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM: A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM ~Special Thanks to: Agent Jack Malebranche for his permission to use his art in my avatar.~ SETI Combat Camera Cool Products

Top
#113279 - 07/20/05 05:55 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: ]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

This is not about whether or not someone 'deserved' anything. There's not some kind of universal karma out there we can thank for making this happen, so why must we feel satisfied when others suffer, even if they are idiots?




Okay. Not "just desserts". Not karma.

Predicable and cliche`.

And why do idiots deserve to be protected from their stupidity? And why should I not laugh when they do dumb things and get hurt?

Quote:

What this is, is an example showing that people who a) dress goth or b) publicly affirm their belief in satanism become subjects of violence. Furthermore, it shows an example of how people would be leniant on such shocking behaviour.




Well, I happen to think that this shows, "If you go around pissing off Christians they will eventually try and kick the shit out of you."

I think Mr. Romano learned this lesson the Hard Way.

Quote:

Furthermore, you justify it by calling him weak. First off, they came from behind him. Secondly, they outnumbered him. Thirdly, they had weapons. You may believe yourself to be beyond such factors, but that doesn't mean we should require it. Bigots have access to martial arts as well, so don't believe that you'll automatically outmatch any people who are against you.




Well. You have you facts wrong. And I quote the original article.

"Prosecutors said that on January 9 at about 2:30 p.m., the defendants called out "Hey, Satan," to Romano from a car before getting out and beating him with an ice scraper and metal pipe."

Doesn't mean "we" should require it? What's this "we" noise again? You have a mouse in your pocket?

Lex Talionis. Fang and Claw. Give me a break. You try telling a lion to rip out it's teeth and claws because it "shouldn't need them.". Bullshit.

I personally take a keen interest in my personal protection. I grew up in a "rough" neighborhood. I was the one white kid on the big bad black block in the middle of the crack district. No need to lecture me on martial arts and thugs, I've seen my share, taken my licks, earned my respect, gotten the stiches too. And I can say that it's better to be prepared and knowledgeable than ignorant and vulnerable.

Mr. Romano was not just a weakling, he was ignorant and deliberately made himself vulnerable. From all accounts it sounds like he didn't even try and fight back. Or run for that matter. I can respect someone that runs and tries to fight back. These goons gave him a warning, got out of the car, and then beat him up. Please.

Quote:

Making a joke about his clogs? I realize you're just doing this to emphasize your disdain for the gothic culture, but give me a damn break here. Some people like to dress up, for social or expressive reasons, whatever, but you can't condemn them for it.




Yes. I disdain "Goth". This is no secret. But calling it culture makes me want to vomit. Scottish tartan is culture. Silk kimono is culture. "Goth" is some crap served up by media overlords for kids to silently rebel and declare their uniqueness by looking like one another. It's crap, not culture. As it is my opinion to not like "Goth, Hip-Hop, Redneck, etc sterotype.". I condemn Mr. Romano's misuse of Lesser Magic, using it to anger people, and then at the same time he was not prepared to deal with that anger. I think this is irresponsible.

Quote:

You should not HAVE to dress like you're expecting a street fight when you're not actively initating them.




But examine what happens to people that single themselves out? When is it advantageous to broadcast your diabolical affiliations and when is it not? Clearly, it worked to Mr. Romano's detriment, so he has no sympathy from me.

Deliberately wearing a "Cosmic Kick-Me Sign" and then crying when someone kicks you is stupid.

Quote:

One might choose to do so, but it's nice to think that you could maybe where a cape every now and then without having to worry about whether or not it might impede your retreat from people trying to impale you with knives.




Yes. It would be nice to live in such an imaginary world where you can dress as inflammitorily as you want and not have to suffer the potential consequenses of such actions.

It would be nice to walk around nude with "Say you love Satan!" drawn in black grease paint on my chest. (Halloween costume idea?) But I don't live in that perfect world and I can reasonably expect that the local law enforcement will haul my ass away to jail for violating laws based on Christian "morals". I could also reasonably expect that I would be singled out in this community and perhaps get the shit kicked out of me for being a creepy weirdo. And I can then expect to be meted out a dilute version of Law and Order (The U.S. doesn't have a Justice system), in a courtroom of a Christian dominated government, should I declare that I'm a card-carry Satanist. Woe betied me if I LIE and say that I'm a affiliated and I'm not, because just like Mr. Romano, I could also reasonably expect H.P Gilmore (Or an Agent of the Church of Satan) would be forced disavow any knowlwedge of my stated affilation. Why? Because I didn't pay up, and put down with that set, and put my money where my big, loud, embarrassing, mouth was.

So tell me why is it such a stretch of the imagination to think that it's stupid and irresponsible to do the following?

1) Dress up to deliberatly infuriate and alienate Christians.
2) Wear an inverted cross.
3) Advertise that you're the sworn enemy of Christians
4) Cry about it to the media when two of them beat you up.
5) Lie to the media about being an affiliated member of the CoS.
6) Force the High Priest himself to publicly deny affiliation, and as a result hurt your case in court.

This whole thing is dumb and stupid on so many levels. I'm done here.

End of line.



Edited by Felstorm (07/20/05 06:03 AM)

Top
#113280 - 07/20/05 06:18 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: ]
redgriffin Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 211
Quote:

it's nice to think that you could maybe where a cape every now and then without having to worry about whether or not it might impede your retreat from people trying to impale you with knives.




Apparently you haven't been made aware of the dangers of capes. I suggest watching "The Incredibles" as reference material

In all seriousness, someone who has an ounce of street smarts doesn't wear get-ups that will impede with a street fight, or getting away from one for that matter. Lets also not forget that he may have owed the young thugs money, in which case he brought it on himself. Does that justify getting assaulted? Absolutely not. Could he have avoided the situation by being more discreet or not associating with cons-to-be? Very likely. I think the real issue at hand is niether his fighting prowess nor his personal choice of dress. It's that he is dragging the name of the Church of Satan into his legal matters when he isn't a member, much less a representative. Who cares whether he dresses like a goth, a rivet head, or a fucking cowboy with a pink hat and belt buckle for that matter? He IS NOT A MEMBER , and therefore should not claim to be, much less drag this organization into his personal issues. Bottom line.

Top
#113281 - 07/20/05 08:26 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: ]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Quote:

Furthermore, you justify it by calling him weak. First off, they came from behind him. Secondly, they outnumbered him. Thirdly, they had weapons.



I would like to point out that being "weak" is not a universal standard.

The one who loses a fight is weak. Batman may be the strongest among men, but compared to Superman, he is weak.

Please note that I'm not only talking about physical weakness or strength, as the outcome of any situation is composed of several factors.

If I am so stupid that I want to play the Bad Guy in an enemy territory then I must be prepared for anything. I should have eyes on my back, and I shouldn't go alone or without weapons. And finally, I shouldn't be surprised when I end up in jail or in a coffin (where I would belong then) if I wasn't more powerful than everyone else in the world.

The weak must perish.

Top
#113282 - 07/20/05 09:48 AM Re: "Satainst" attacked = Hate Crime [Re: Felstorm]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
felstorm... well I agree somewhat. That type of reasoning can be extended to all kinds of things, how many times has a rapist said she was 'asking for it' by dressing a certain way?

I think the only thing that made him assault worthy is the fact that he was alone and couldnt defend himself. I am sure these assholes would have assaulted someone else if this guy wasnt around. Im sure they got some extra jollies off of the way he dressed, but I doubt it adds up to little more than that.

I understand that its stupid to piss other people off deliberatley, but I dont think simply exsisting and looking a certain way is grounds enough to hurt anyone. Its not like he was yelling at people entering church, he was just living.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#113285 - 07/20/05 11:55 AM Re: REALITY BITES [Re: ]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Quote:

I understand that its stupid to piss other people off deliberatley, but I dont think simply exsisting and looking a certain way is grounds enough to hurt anyone. Its not like he was yelling at people entering church, he was just living.




You are missing the point.

YES, it is "morally" repugnant that people stand the chance of getting assaulted for dressing a certain way, and whathave you...

BUT what is "morally" "right" is not the REALITY.

The reality is you CAN get assaulted for presenting yourself in a certain way. That is why Satanists, instead of bemoaning the fact that such a thing is unfair, ADAPT.

Those who ignore this fact, tend to pay the consequences. Those consequences are not always pleasant, and for the most part, could have been avoided had reality been aknowleged.




ack. You did not quote the part that would answer the questions you raised.

I believe looks have little to do with it.He was simply exsisting, so I tend to think that they would just fuck with someone else eventually, and if they didnt hate one type of 'freak' they would hate another. I maintain that the perps would have gotten in the same kind of trouble if this guy wasnt around.

I am not complaining that its unfair, and I choose to look quite normal actually. Im not talking about what people 'deserve' or whats morally 'right', I am just pointing out the fact that they beat someone who did nothing to them, so its pretty likely that they would have done it to someone else anyway.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#113286 - 07/20/05 01:22 PM Re: REALITY BITES [Re: ]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

The reality is you CAN get assaulted for presenting yourself in a certain way. That is why Satanists, instead of bemoaning the fact that such a thing is unfair, ADAPT.




This reminds me of something they used to beat into our heads in the marine corps, "Adapt and overcome". This kids failure was in not being able to adapt. He didn't adapt by changing his appearance to avoid unwanted attention, he didn't adapt by learning how to kick major ass after making that choice, and he didn't adapt when he failed to run when an obvious beating was coming. I lived the first 13 years of my life in Los Angeles. If you live in a city long enough and your smart, you can see the signs of imminent danger long before the wolves set upon you. This kid was stupid, and his stupidity resulted in assault. Doesn't make it any more legal, it’s just a fact. Ravenhael has accurately described this kids failure.

Quote:

Nah, I'm saying there are times when one should be able to comfortably retract the claws. Everyone should learn self defense, but you're implying that if a person can't take out two armed surprise attackers then he's an idiot? Like I said, bullies can take martial arts classes too, and usually have a lot more hands-on experience with fighting.




The kid isn’t an idiot because he can’t fight. He’s an idiot because the fight could have been avoided in several different ways, all of which were not utilized. Dare I say he wanted to be a victim, and this desire surfaced when he tried to use false affiliations and media attention to incite sympathy. Oh poor me, he yelled. His time would have been better spent planning his revenge, or better yet, planning to avoid such things in the future. But no. It was spent in complaint. That is his weakness and his stupidity.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

Top
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5


Forum Stats
12253 Members
73 Forums
44034 Topics
406355 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements