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#113291 - 07/15/05 04:35 PM Spirituality.
TheAbyss Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Helsinki, Finland.
Is spirituality an idea, concept or state of being that can only be attached to Theistic religions? What does spirituality actually mean, devoid of religious connotations, and what are it's origins?

The basic concept of spirituality is defined by Webster's Dictionary as "Something that is attached to religious values" or "The quality or state of being spiritual."

Evidently the first definition is tied in directly to those religions that consider there is some form of non-corporeal entity within the self. But the true original meaning of spiritual, devoid of it's religious trappings can best be summed up by Atheist, award-winning author and scientist, Carl Sagan, who stated that spirituality without religion is not the oxymoron that it might seem at first.

Sagan suggested in his book 'The Demon-Haunted World - Science As A Candle In The Dark' that " 'Spirit' comes from the Latin word 'to breathe'. What we breathe is air, which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no implication in the word 'spiritual' that we are talking about anything other than matter, (including the matter that the brain is made) or outside the realm of science."

When we recognise our place in an immensity of light years and the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature (Hammershoi, Vaughn Williams and Niccolo Machiavelli to name personal favourites).

You don't need to think that there is some inner energy force, some 'Being of light' or non-corporeal entity within the self to consider yourself spiritual. The living, breathing world that we spend so short a time on IS that entity! Never stopping, ever changing, and one can consider oneself as being Spiritual by being in tune with that.

Thank you.

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#113292 - 07/15/05 04:38 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

You don't need to think that there is some inner energy force, some 'Being of light' or non-corporeal entity within the self to consider yourself spiritual. The living, breathing world that we spend so short a time on IS that entity! Never stopping, ever changing, and one can consider oneself as being Spiritual by being in tune with that.





Why would you want to consider yourself "spiritual" at all?
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#113293 - 07/15/05 04:49 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: Svengali]
TheAbyss Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Helsinki, Finland.
Quote:

Quote:

You don't need to think that there is some inner energy force, some 'Being of light' or non-corporeal entity within the self to consider yourself spiritual. The living, breathing world that we spend so short a time on IS that entity! Never stopping, ever changing, and one can consider oneself as being Spiritual by being in tune with that.





Why would you want to consider yourself "spiritual" at all?




Sir, The above is the 'State', and the definition is Spiritual in a non-theistic sense. Ergo, i am a non-theistic spiritualist.

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#113294 - 07/15/05 04:51 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.

Yea, I can read. What does that have to do with Satanism?
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#113295 - 07/15/05 04:55 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: Svengali]
TheAbyss Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Helsinki, Finland.
Quote:


Yea, I can read. What does that have to do with Satanism?




I read a comment that there is no spiritual Satanism, and wanted to put forward the point that you don't need to follow the mumbo-jumbo nonsense of theistic religions to consider yourself a spiritual person. The term has been hijacked by religions worldwide to mean something different to the original latin term...

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#113296 - 07/15/05 04:58 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
I think I understand what you are trying to convey, and I do agree that there is a difference between religion and spirituality, and that those terms can be used independently of eachother.

The way you talk about spirituality
Quote:

When we recognise our place in an immensity of light years and the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.



sounds elegant, but it also sounds like your own personal religious adventure.

Reverend Svengali asked you why you would want to be spiritual at all, and I wonder the same thing.

If Spirituality is simply another reference to matter, or breathing, then why not call it that?
At least those terms have no inherent religious connotations, and don't suggest (as I personally think "spirituality" does) that there is some link with a "force" greater than oneself.

In the mind of a Satanist, spiritual pipe-dreams have no place.
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#113297 - 07/15/05 05:04 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
TheAbyss Offline


Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Helsinki, Finland.
Quote:

If Spirituality is simply another reference to matter, or breathing, then why not call it that?
At least those terms have no inherent religious connotations, and don't suggest (as I personally think "spirituality" does) that there is some link with a "force" greater than oneself.




The term was not attached at any point with religious conotations, but, as i said, has been hijacked since. I understand your viewpoint on the 'force' idea (hey, sorry but Yoda was wrong) but it's the wrong end of the stick, as it were.

It goes beyond that though, to a point of being environmetally aware and feeling oneself as the living, organic machine that is the world that we live in...

Or so i keep telling Joe Public at The World Wildlife Fund where i work!

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#113298 - 07/15/05 05:08 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:


Yea, I can read. What does that have to do with Satanism?




I read a comment that there is no spiritual Satanism, and wanted to put forward the point that you don't need to follow the mumbo-jumbo nonsense of theistic religions to consider yourself a spiritual person. The term has been hijacked by religions worldwide to mean something different to the original latin term...




So spirit means "air" - does that mean hyperventilating is "spiritual" ?

Why try to salvage something so irrelevant?

If Sagan's little semantic maneuver makes you feel good, thats fine, "Christian Atheism" has been done before.

I reiterate; what does it have to do with Satanism?

Why should we care?
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#113299 - 07/15/05 05:09 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
It goes beyond that though, to a point of being environmetally aware and feeling oneself as the living, organic machine that is the world that we live in...

This would go over better on a Wiccan or New Age message board than on this one.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#113301 - 07/15/05 05:21 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

Is spirituality an idea, concept or state of being that can only be attached to Theistic religions? What does spirituality actually mean, devoid of religious connotations, and what are it's origins?




Satanism rebukes spirituality for whatever it would be. You should indeed go inquire among Theistic religionists. Satanism is interested in the here & now.

Oh, and good luck, you´ll probably need it.

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#113302 - 07/15/05 05:45 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I take "spirit" in an aesthetic sense, as that which inspires and is inspired. (Both words have the "spir-" root, and the significance is that it feels as if something has breathed its power into you. Originally, it was demons.) Spirituality means attending to your inspirations.

If you like, this is what it is to "be spiritual", but I don't see why anyone would have to make a point of considering themselves spiritual. Either you celebrate the profound influences art and literature can have over you, or you don't; either way, what you "consider yourself" is irrelevant.

In this sense I think Satanism is just as profoundly spiritual as any other religion, and maybe moreso, since Satanism is more honest about how things come to inspire us. But Satanism isn't about groping for white-light good-guy prestige words like "spirituality".
_________________________
reprobate

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#113303 - 07/15/05 06:36 PM new age?¿? [Re: LKRice]
TR966 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 1874
Loc: Up in the Mountains, USA
Hence why the term "New Age" rhymes with

SewAge
_________________________
" I am a railing alongside the torrent;
whoever is able to grasp me may grasp me!
Your cruch, however I am not"
Zarathustra
Or, "most people are like Slinkies...
Not really much good for anything, but
they can still bring a smile to your face
when you push them down a flight of stairs.
TR966

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#113304 - 07/15/05 06:43 PM Spirituality / agnostic / theist... [Re: TheAbyss]
TR966 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 1874
Loc: Up in the Mountains, USA
Part of an article that may help called Agnostic Satanism and Other Delirium By Rev. Ken Gage.

"Agnostic" is derived from the Greek word agnostos, meaning "unknown" or "unknowable," and it is generally
used to define the position that "it is impossible to either refute or demonstrate god's existance on the basis of available evidence." This definition is rather narrow-minded, for the agnostic position applies to much more
than just god. George H. Smith put the problem of agnosticism in perspective in his book, Atheism: The Case Against God. His wording is too suitable to paraphrase; I give you Mr. Smiths words:
"Agnosticism is not an independent position or middle way between theism and atheism, because it classifies
according to different criteria. Thesim and atheism separate those who believe in a god from those that
believe that reason can not penetrate the supernatural realm for those who defend the capability of reason to affirm or deny the truth of theistic belief."
*********
You see, a person can be any combination: agnostic theist, agnostic atheist, non-agnostic theist or non-agnostic atheist. (this last is CLOSEest to Satanism)
On the broadest level, agnosticism is a belief in "unknowability" which practically equates to transcendentalism--that the character of ultimate reality is unknowable. Satanists can not reasonably support agnosticism because it is a position of anti-reason, claiming as it does that things which are 'beyond reality' and which can not ever be known by humankind.
*********
Another reason agnosticism is unreasonable is that by its acceptance of the unknowability of matters (like god), it allows credibility to every presupposition (be it god, Satan or the tooth fairy) by way of the shady logic that "because there is no evidence for or against the
said presupposition, the presupposition must be a valid one." In this way, uncertainty is the hand of proof. By fence-sitting -- their total suspension of judgment --
the agnostic validates everything equally, failing to understand that a lack of evidence for something (like
god) is refutation enough against that something (like
god) until concrete evidence tuns up otherwise. The Satanist does not jump the fence of reason, but rather looks to examine just what territory the fence encloses.

excerpts taken from Agnostic Satanism and Other Delirium
By Rev. Ken Gage in The Black Flame Magazine Vol.6 #1&2 1997, for more information or the entire article pick up
The Black Flame and or:
CJ.Turner:
The most common atheism is what I term "dirt
atheism". This is the belief that the purely physical
world we live in is the be-all end-all of our lives. This form of atheism appeals to many people new to the Devil's realm, particularly if they come from another religious background. It is the most resounding way to deny the hypocrisy of traditional spiritualism of any sort, and certainly a strong grounding for an individual to deify himself. As such, it is a powerful vehicle for emergent Satanists to embrace and utilize. It is also true that a traditional x-ian view is that an athesitic world is the Devil's doing, popularly expressed in the cliche "The Devil's greatest victory is convincing you that he doesn't exist." So atheism is certainly a firm undergirder of the Satanic Tradition, indeed one of its core foundations.
Much like theism, this belieg has a sense of ultimate
truth and in doing, fulfills the same roll as a spiritual belief. Satanists who gravitate towards this view tend to be less interested in Greater Magic and are most often the rationalists who, in the face of deceit and pretentiousness, stand firm and strong against opposing views. These people are invaluable to the Infernal Empire, and probably constitute the majority of its citizenry.

Paragraph taken from an article by Christopher J. Tunner (Satanic Atheism and the Unknown) Not Like Most Magazine Issue 8
(Visit: www.purgingtalon.com to obtain Not Like Most, and
a host of other interesting things. )
_________________________
" I am a railing alongside the torrent;
whoever is able to grasp me may grasp me!
Your cruch, however I am not"
Zarathustra
Or, "most people are like Slinkies...
Not really much good for anything, but
they can still bring a smile to your face
when you push them down a flight of stairs.
TR966

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#113305 - 07/15/05 06:56 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: TheAbyss]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Satanism is the opposite of spirituality. Satanism is the religion of the flesh. Seen man as the animal he is, a carnal beast.

Spirituality implies there is something else in us than flesh and bones. Some kind of “magic essence” that makes us different to other animals and continues to live after we die.

Doctor LaVey used the perfect word to describe spiritualism: Pipedream!
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#113306 - 07/15/05 07:38 PM Re: Spirituality. [Re: Old_Pig]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
This whole topic is pretty unnessicary. Doesnt the satanic bible clue you in to what 'spirituality' is all about? In the first chapters?
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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