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When does one crosses the line? #115992
08/05/05 01:47 AM
08/05/05 01:47 AM
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pitzi_83 Offline OP
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Dr LaVey spoke the dogma in "The Satanic Bible",
But also spoke of free will.

At my first days in the LTTD I was told by several members
that "It's all about your will, your cravings" etc.

My logic therefor tells me there is no "Orthodox Satanist". ( )

So where is the line drawn? is there gray or only black
and white? If it's gray, is it as far as I say so?

I found a partial answer in the essay forum "... not like all the other -isms" in that it is textual and not intentional.

*note* My native tongue is Hebrew.
Reading "The Satanic Bible" was possible for me, yet was
also be quite baffling. Therefor, I ask.

Thank you for your patience.

Last edited by pitzi_83; 08/05/05 03:07 AM.

Balance in all things.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #115993
08/05/05 02:23 AM
08/05/05 02:23 AM
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Posts: 23
México D.F.
DunkelTeufel Offline
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México D.F.
Greetings

From my point of view the only opinion that matters is yours, if you want to believe in black and white its fine, if you don´t want to, it´s also fine, don´t expect that everyone agrees with you even if they are other Satanists, just create your own opinion.

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #115994
08/05/05 02:48 AM
08/05/05 02:48 AM
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redgriffin Offline
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Quote:

So where is the line drawn? is there gray or only black
and white? If it's gray, is it as far as I say so?




What line are you referring to? Could you please make yourself more clear?

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: redgriffin] #115995
08/05/05 03:20 AM
08/05/05 03:20 AM
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pitzi_83 Offline OP
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Let's put it this way...
The book is there to be read.
How much free interpertaion can there be?
(Didn't see the need to ask this question up to the "Hunting" Thread)

I know this question bugs some of you, but I simply
wish to... "feel" what was meant.
I'm no big reader, the more so in english.
My vocabulary is sufficient, but the "way of mind" in sentences can escape me sometimes
unless it's laymen english or professional english.

(Hebrew grammer is reversed in comparison to english,
Vocabulary is diminished etc.)


Balance in all things.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #115996
08/05/05 03:31 AM
08/05/05 03:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,120
Ohio
Mr. Obsidian Offline
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Let me declare first that I in no way speak for the CoS, as I am not even a member at this time.
That being said...

As I undertand it:
What is written in the Satanic Bible is to be taken at it's word, that is to say quite literally.
The philosophy set forth by Doktor LaVey is the bedrock upon which the religion is based, and is not up for questioning - or for that matter, even much interpretation.
Magus LaVey's words are clear and concise.
There is no "esoteric" bullshit - it is what it is.
This is what is meant by Satanic Textualism,
and is the reason Satanism is so clearly defined.
(It is important to recognize TSB as the fountainhead, and it's clarity/authority is essential to keeping Satanism authentic,
Lest the shit-disturbers and nit-pickers be allowed to render it meaningless!)


You should find when you read The Satanic Bible
that either it's principles resonate with you or they don't.
This is what is meant by the phrase
"Satanists are born, not made."
Satanism is grounded in the natural, practical realm of reality and life, and should correspond with the way you already live , if indeed a Satanist you are.

Therefore, if you feel the need to nitpick over the religion's fundamentals and dogma, or (for example) you feel that Satanism should allow room for belief in things like "a higher power" -
or even if you just can't accept certain core concepts -
then perhaps "Satanist" is not a valid description for yourself.



Now, beyond the realm of the "bedrock", the philosophy, dogma, and foundation of Satanism, you will find more variation.
This is where interpretation becomes more individualized.
This is where each Satanist lives his/her life according to their own indulgences and enjoyments.
Examples could include personal taste, politics, pastimes, certain ritual elements, preferences towards different types of lesser magic, and application of the balance factor... just to list a few.
Basically, the only limits then are those an individual places on him/her self.


~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: Mr. Obsidian] #115997
08/05/05 03:43 AM
08/05/05 03:43 AM
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pitzi_83 Offline OP
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When I read TSB I found myself smiling a lot, as if listening
to another one of my father's speeches.

If what you say is correct, this will probably be my last
question on the "how" subject of satanism.


Balance in all things.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #115998
08/05/05 05:08 AM
08/05/05 05:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,136
Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
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The best thing to do might be to ask a specific question about a specific passage in the book.

Magus LaVey did use colorful and expressive phrases at times, and these might be confusing for someone whose first language is not English.

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: Mr. Obsidian] #115999
08/05/05 09:36 AM
08/05/05 09:36 AM
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Posts: 211
redgriffin Offline
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You have echoed my sentiments exactly on this issue, although Agt. Malebranche brings up a good point in that for someone who english is a second language the metaphors, sarcasm, and humor may not translate well. I think a certain amount of interpretation on Doktor LaVey's works is acceptable to provide personal meaning to the reader, but much of The Doktor's writing doesn't need interpretation I feel. He illustrates his point so that those who can get it will. Disagreeing, however, proves that one is the butt of the joke, not the intended audience.

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: Rev_Malebranche] #116000
08/05/05 11:51 AM
08/05/05 11:51 AM
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Israel
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pitzi_83 Offline OP
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Thank you all for your posts.

As intended regardless, I will read the book several more
times. Should a specific question come to mind, I will
place it here.


Balance in all things.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: Mr. Obsidian] #116001
08/05/05 03:41 PM
08/05/05 03:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,000
Pre-Apocalypolis
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Quote:



You should find when you read The Satanic Bible
that either it's principles resonate with you or they don't.
This is what is meant by the phrase
"Satanists are born, not made."





Exactly...What sets Satanism apart from other religions is that, when you read it's Bible, you are NOT compelled to change your ways.

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #116002
08/06/05 10:31 AM
08/06/05 10:31 AM
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Posts: 2,770
Here.
RandomStranger Offline
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Here.
From what I can tell, there aren't different level's of adherence.
In your part of the world, a man with payess might look at a
man the same age without and try to engage him in a debate
about law of the torah as to why he should do something he
isn't doing already.

From what I understand, one is either a Satanist or one is not.
No debating on nuiances needed. I am not a member of the
CoS hierarchy so I can make no quotable statement as to
what's what; this is just my personal understanding of how
things work.





Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: DunkelTeufel] #116003
08/07/05 08:16 AM
08/07/05 08:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Miami, FL
HammerOfDoubt Offline
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Miami, FL
Something about you doesn't feel right.
I've been visiting this board much less lately, concentrating on my personal pursuits, so forgive me for not recognizing you.
You have the feel of a Pseudo-Satanist, and some "Setianism" as well.

Satanism is not a holloween goodie bag, where you get to eat your Reeses and caramel nougats and toss out the mints and pennies because they aren't to your liking.


Mistaking insolence for freedom has always been the hallmark of the slave.
-Wilhelm Reich
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: HammerOfDoubt] #116004
08/07/05 11:57 AM
08/07/05 11:57 AM
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Posts: 326
Israel
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pitzi_83 Offline OP
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I know why you got that impression.
It's mainly because I didn't UNDERSTAND several phrases
from the book.
literally. so many words that weren't in my vocabulary
popped up there, and on several occasions I understood
the OPPOSITE meaning of a sentence.

That's why I asked questions, because the book didn't quite
make sense to me as it was full of contradictions.

Yesterday I downloaded a helpfull digital dictionary and
sat to re-read the book of fire out of "The Satanic Bible".

I know truely understand why this question is wrong.
Why there is no actual need for "Drawing lines".

The "lines" ARE the Satanic Rules, They are written in a
manor that once understood (technically) there is no
need to ask further questions.

Apart from those lines, there IS NO LIMITATION. everything
is up to me. "The god you save may be yourself". I am my
own god and I decide what to indulge myself with.


Balance in all things.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: pitzi_83] #116005
08/07/05 04:44 PM
08/07/05 04:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,120
Ohio
Mr. Obsidian Offline
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Ohio
I think you're on the right track.


~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster] #116006
08/08/05 04:17 AM
08/08/05 04:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 27
Hawaii
badnewsforyou Offline
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Hawaii
Quote:

Quote:



You should find when you read The Satanic Bible
that either it's principles resonate with you or they don't.
This is what is meant by the phrase
"Satanists are born, not made."





Exactly...What sets Satanism apart from other religions is that, when you read it's Bible, you are NOT compelled to change your ways.




That was an excellent way to describe the difference I recognized when I read TSB after being raised as a Methodist Christian as a child... big difference... hahaha

Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: HammerOfDoubt] #116007
08/08/05 09:40 PM
08/08/05 09:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 499
U
uncleherpe Offline
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Quote:



Satanism is not a holloween goodie bag, where you get to eat your Reeses and caramel nougats and toss out the mints and pennies because they aren't to your liking.




that made me smile. thanks.


One stupid post too many.
Re: When does one crosses the line? [Re: badnewsforyou] #116008
08/09/05 03:50 PM
08/09/05 03:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,000
Pre-Apocalypolis
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Quote:


Exactly...What sets Satanism apart from other religions is that, when you read it's Bible, you are NOT compelled to change your ways.




That was an excellent way to describe the difference I recognized when I read TSB after being raised as a Methodist Christian as a child... big difference... hahaha




Hey...another one raised among the Methodists.
Yep...as different as night and day.

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