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A moral dilemma #117077
08/12/05 01:40 AM
08/12/05 01:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
Nevermore Offline OP
Nevermore  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
I am a recently graduated 3d Animation student. As such, I'm freelancing around the place trying to build up a portfolio, make a name for myself etc. Therefore I can't really afford to be picky about the jobs I take, as everything is one step towards a solid portfolio and better jobs/more money etc.
However recently one of the jobs I was offered was for a local Xtian church. Apparently they're having trouble getting young people interested in their church (gee, I wonder why), and they came up with the idea of making CG cartoons of some bible stories in order to get the kiddies back in sunday school.

Now I'd like to look at this as a paying job and simply disregard the subject matter. However the matter remains that I'd be actually helping "the enemy". I don't really think their plan is going to work anyway, which also helps my conscience, but still...
I haven't accepted the job at all, but I was wondering what you think? If I believe their plan is doomed to fail anyway, and I can further my career, is that worth working for a Xtian church?

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117078
08/12/05 01:50 AM
08/12/05 01:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 211
redgriffin Offline
CoS Member
redgriffin  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 211
I wouldn't have a problem with separating a rube from their money, but I guess I can see where your discomfort is. I say if you can tolerate the employer and feel you can do the job, take the paycheck. It would also be amusing to let them know your affiliation after the project is over and you have cash in hand, because they might just scrap the whole thing, but thats probably more wishful thinking on my part

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117079
08/12/05 01:54 AM
08/12/05 01:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 617
Asmedious Offline
Asmedious  Offline

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 617
You could make a cartoon that would look to the Christians as something that they are looking for, but perhaps throw in some double meanings and or misdirection.

Sorry, I don't have any specific ideas.

Creativity is your job

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117080
08/12/05 02:01 AM
08/12/05 02:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,796
Forever West
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock
Discipline  Offline
CoS Warlock

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,796
Forever West
"The enemy" is in fact not the vile nemesis that they appear to be. Yes, Christianity holds values and ideals that are counterproductive to a free and individual society. I would not, however, deem them as the "enemy". To do so would create unrealistic barriers and conflicts that would not be benefical.

The best question to ask yourself is, "Do you feel disgust about taking this job? Do you feel like it would only cause you apprehension? Or do you feel that the money is well worth a little collaboration with those you may not agree with ethically?"

I am sure you will figure which options are more important to you. Our opinions and advice really don't mean crap if they only end up putting you in the poor house.


"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117081
08/12/05 02:08 AM
08/12/05 02:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 745
DancingintheDark Offline
DancingintheDark  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 745
Personally I would take the job, and the money, and insert some nice little subliminal or cryptic "Easter eggs" into the work. I would take care to be clever about it so it wasn't obvious.


This message will self destruct
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Discipline] #117082
08/12/05 02:14 AM
08/12/05 02:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 139
North Dakota
KissFrk3 Offline
CoS Member
KissFrk3  Offline
CoS Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 139
North Dakota
I agree with you Discipline, no need to see christians as the enemy. Sheep, yes, enemy, no. I, personally, would see nothing wrong with taking the job, like you said it is a stepping stone to creating a professional portfolio. The benefits of your future aspirations far outweigh, to me anyway, the fact that you will be working for christians. Just my 2 cents of course.


"I never really hated the one true GOD; but the god of the people I hated." -MM

Hail Satan!
Hail Me!
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117083
08/12/05 02:19 AM
08/12/05 02:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,136
Oregon
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend
Rev_Malebranche  Offline
CoS Reverend

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,136
Oregon
The idea of creating pro-Christian propaganda isn't even feasible for me, but it is important that you don't frame this in the context of a "moral dilemma," as you have.

There is no right or wrong here, there is only what makes sense for you, and what doesn't. I think anyone who has a personal business endeavor learns what kind of clients and projects they will accept, and what clients and projects are not acceptable.

I will say that downplaying the effectiveness of these "Christianity is fun" campaigns may be a mistake. Most people are easily distracted by shiny objects and cute animations.



Evangelical Christianity is gaining popularity in this country precisely because church leaders have wised up and embraced modern marketing techniques. It ain't what they're selling, it's how they're selling it.

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: DancingintheDark] #117084
08/12/05 02:36 AM
08/12/05 02:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 617
Asmedious Offline
Asmedious  Offline

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 617
What a great idea. Why didn't I think of that.?

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117085
08/12/05 03:08 AM
08/12/05 03:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 499
U
uncleherpe Offline
uncleherpe  Offline
U

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 499
I watch christian cartoons. They are on at 5am and they are just as boring as the old fashioned ones.

Do you honestly think 3d animations will draw a larger audience, only because of the style? They are losing youth left and right no matter what they do. "Aquire the fire" shows how desperate they are for kids and teens.

Take the money. Its not like you are doing charity work to help them out, you are getting plenty out of the transaction.


One stupid post too many.
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: uncleherpe] #117086
08/12/05 03:15 AM
08/12/05 03:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
Nevermore Offline OP
Nevermore  Offline OP

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
Thankyou for your replies.

I guess I could have worded it differently. I don't actually see Christians as "the enemy", but they do support things that go against what I believe.
But I agree that furthering my career is more important to me right now.

One thing I forgot to mention, which is one of the main reasons I think their idea will fail, is that I'm in a fairly small country area. So even if in some bizarre way they manage to reach 50% of the youth community, that's still not very many people. Not a number I would get worked up about.

Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117087
08/12/05 03:43 AM
08/12/05 03:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,990
The Solid State
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch
TrojZyr  Offline
CoS Witch

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,990
The Solid State
I say, as long as they're not on an evil campaign that will be directly supported by the creation of little CG characters, go for it! (For example, if the church was dedicated to "rehabilitating" homosexuals, or was big into protesting abortion clinics, I personally wouldn't want to give them any more fuel for those specific activities.) You can even be cute and secretly subversive with the subject matter, if you're smart about it. I'm a bit of a geek, but I think it sounds like a fun opportunity, and you'll get some of *their* money for it.



"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore] #117088
08/12/05 04:27 AM
08/12/05 04:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
CWH Offline
CoS Member
CWH  Offline
CoS Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,746
The way I see it is that a job is a job. I am a Marine and I don't agree with every little ideal, symbol or creed and that was crammed down my throat in bootcamp, but I still do my job with a sense of pride.

I don't see it as helping out the cause of christianity by making some CG cartoons for them. If the people they are trying to reach are that mentally handicapped that some CG cartoons about jesus would impact their lives.....then christian church can have them.

Plus what's wrong with creating CG works of fiction anyways?

Take the money.

Re: Evil Campaign. [Re: TrojZyr] #117089
08/12/05 05:14 AM
08/12/05 05:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,793
England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend
Drake_Bamboozle  Offline
CoS Reverend

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,793
England
>>I say, as long as they're not on an evil campaign that will be directly supported by the creation of little CG characters, go for it!<<

The whole Christian agenda is an evil campaign.

To quote The Satanic Bible - "The true prince of Evil."

I'm not going to bother delving into my reasoning. A read of page 30 of The Satanic Bible just about says it all.

Fuck 'em. If they were starving I wouldn't throw them a single rice crispie from my bowl.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: KissFrk3] #117090
08/12/05 05:37 AM
08/12/05 05:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,793
England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend
Drake_Bamboozle  Offline
CoS Reverend

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,793
England
>>I agree with you Discipline, no need to see christians as the enemy.<<

I've quoted this before and I'll quote it again here:

"There can be no room for this ecumenical attitude of 'well, if God works for them and makes them happy, it won't hurt me to let them go on believing it.' But it does hurt you. When there are that many people in positions of authority thinking mudddled, incoherent thoughts, it's going to affect you. To completely overthrow mystically orientated religions, Satanists choose active opposition. We don't need to show any tolerance or good fellowship to these sheep."

-Anton Szandor LaVey-

And need I mention the book of Satan I-5:

"He who saith 'thou shalt' is my mortal foe."

They are the enemy. However you look at it.

I seriously recommend that those CoS members who have not purchased a copy of Blanche Barton's book, The Church of Satan, do so. It really will provide you with a clear idea of what the Church of Satan is about.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #117091
08/12/05 05:42 AM
08/12/05 05:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 499
U
uncleherpe Offline
uncleherpe  Offline
U

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 499
I dont really think it matters if they are the enemy or not in this situation, he needs work and he doesnt do it someone else will get hired instead.

Not to mention it sounds like it wont make much of a dent, plus he gets money and builds a portfolio with it. I say go for it.


One stupid post too many.
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