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#117092 - 08/11/05 11:58 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Asmedious]
DancingintheDark Offline


Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
Quote:

What a great idea. Why didn't I think of that.?




Great minds....
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#117093 - 08/12/05 12:25 AM No dilemma at all. [Re: Nevermore]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13132
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
You suffer from confusion.

Your assistance to Christianity will not

(1) make any significant difference.
(2) make any meaningful difference.

However you could enable the slaves to serve you.

Think about it.
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#117094 - 08/12/05 12:28 AM Aside (not really) to your signature. [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13132
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
"Do you have a cunning plan, M'Lord?"
-Baldrick from "Black Adder"
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THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
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#117095 - 08/12/05 12:29 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13132
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Exactly.
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Magister Nemo's Satanic Offerings:
DISCOVERING THE SATANIC GOD - The heart of Satanism.
THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Ritual in virtual reality.
BENEATH THE SEVENTH TOWER OF SATAN - Deeper VR ritual.
THE FIRE FROM WITHIN - My book.

My first audio interview on GREATER MAGIC
My second audio interview by Rev Campbell



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#117096 - 08/12/05 12:31 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Mr. Nevermore,

UVRay has made a good point already. Active opposition is a Satanists role. It is "ours" to accuse them and expose their hypocrisy.

This isn't a moral issue, this is an issue of, do I take money from these people or not? It helps to stop viewing them as people and view them as animals that you harvest your living from. Predators do not view their prey as equals.

You are in a position to do some damage here... and make a profit.

I wouldn't go putting subliminals into your work. They look for that kind of thing. Your BEST offense is do the job TOO well. The children that are naturally resistant to the corrupting affects of Christian Bullshit, will see the camp, and scoff at it.
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#117097 - 08/12/05 04:45 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1419
Loc: Banana, Canada
Having a church on your portfolio looks better for further business. When other sheep see this, they think "if a church thinks this person is good then they must be" and the money rolls in. You can always take this as an opportunity to sneak in messeges such as think for yourself. You don't have to encourage Satanism with this cartoon, just encouragement to think freely.

You have an opportunity to undermine these people. Go for it and charge extra.
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#117098 - 08/12/05 05:14 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Vexen Crabtree Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Wiltshire, UK and Dorset, UK
Go for it! I had to sit down and think about it, because it *is* a dilemma. What if your campaigned helped brainwash even *a few*?

But think of the positives:

* Christian money moves into Satanist hands; this has long-term good as your own good health will in itself do damage to organized religion

* Your career is helped: And as above, your own career ultimately works against theirs. If you find yourself doing several Church websites, then go for it! (I have more cunning advise later!). The more they pay (and they *will* pay!) you collectively, the more the scales are turned against them, and they don't even suspect.

Now...

Try signing your name on the cartoons, as is standard practice. Make up a new Logo or name and tell them you'd like to do it under that name. They won't care. Wait a year... and see if you get any other similar projects for other Churches. The more cartoons you build up with the logo, the better! Document which churches you've done stuff for. And make note of their mailing lists & magazines, etc.

Then, one year... expose the new logo you've created as a Satanic Organisation, and make sure all the Church groups associated with the Churches you've done sites for learn about it. The more shock you create over it, the more the fun as you watch the Churches squeem (sp?)!

They'll have to remove the cartoons - they won't be able to sue - and they'll have lost their money.

Simpleton followers will be confused and some of them might learn a few things.

That's what I'd do! Use them, abuse them, be patient... look after yourself, and then when you are stronger, worry more about chipping away at the immoral monuments of religion when you're in a better position - thanks to them - to do so!
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http://www.vexen.co.uk (Websites)
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#117099 - 08/12/05 09:14 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: uncleherpe]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10715
Loc: England
Quote:

I dont really think it matters if they are the enemy or not in this situation, he needs work and he doesnt do it someone else will get hired instead.

Not to mention it sounds like it wont make much of a dent, plus he gets money and builds a portfolio with it. I say go for it.




My comments are not directly aimed at the original poster. It is up to him whether he takes the job or not.

Though personally, as I have pointed out, I would never lend my services to them.

Rather, I was addressing the seemingly popular opinion that Satanism is not anti-Christian. Which in fact it is.
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#117100 - 08/12/05 02:04 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA
Well, here are a few other things to think about...

If they don't choose you for the job, they'll pick some other animator and continue on with the same project. If somebody's going to inevitably get paid for this job, better you than somebody else, right?

Also, you might be overestimating the intended power your work will have. I am not discrediting your talent; just pointing out that many kids are disgusted by the self-righteousness of even the most glitzy propaganda. Just look at the countless parodies of the classic "This is your brain on drugs" ad.

Perhaps you could develop artwork that secretly looks like it's trying too hard to be "hip"? That way you'd get approval from whoever is in charge of the product (presumably an adult who has no idea what kids are really into today), and know that today's youth would find the animation ultimately silly.
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#117101 - 08/12/05 06:11 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Aha, that's my rationale there.

The project will most likely get done, so I would personally prefer to have that money in my pocket, and my (decidedly concealed) message on the table. Maybe I'm a control freak, but the idea that I'd be doing something with my tongue in my cheek that would be presented with great sincerity to the children of the opposition just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

But, I do see UVray's point, which is why I wouldn't *usually* go out of my way to work for Christians or for a church if better opportunities were laid before me---opportunities where I wouldn't be rubbing shoulders with the opposition, where I could utilize my creative gifts and ideas more broadly, and where my skills would possibly be better appreciated. But, if a church crosses paths with me, or I with it, and a job opportunity presents itself, I'll seriously consider my options there.

Nevermore, would I be right in assuming that this is a nondenominational "megachurch?" If you need help brainstorming, I know quite a bit about Christian history, culture, and texts, so feel free to PM me and tell me what you're working on.

I like Bill's idea that you might have more fun and be more successful if you strive to be overly "hip" and transparent. Actual subliminal messages would probably be discovered. I'm always a big fan of multi-layered and obscure symbolism and double-meanings.

I also really like Vexen's idea in theory. I had fun picturing that scenario .
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#117102 - 08/12/05 07:56 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
evalUate Offline


Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Michigan
If you decide to take the job, two points I would like to mention, having made the mistake of taking an art job for a Church many years ago:

1.Beware their natural impulse to proselytes and push their beliefs at you during your interactions with them through this artistic transaction. They often just cannot help themselves or have been indoctrinated to preach their stuff at any and all who fall in their paths.

2.Beware of flaccid inspiration! As art is a muse of the soul, it is very difficult to betray your feelings creating something you truly find vile. It’s not like you are building them a bench or putting in some plumbing or something neutral in nature. Just listen to your gut, as you may not be able to cull the necessary passion to create something of real quality for your portfolio, from what you have to work with.

Good luck!
-Nadine

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#117103 - 08/12/05 09:43 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3976
Loc: The Deep South
I understand how you feel.

I worked for a Christian magazine for some time and I had to read and work with a lot of material I found intellectually disgusting. But in my case, the public the publication was directed was a bunch of old people, whose minds were already rusted solid by decades of religious indoctrination.

But in the case of the project you would work, the target is children. Their minds are still developing and early bombardment with propaganda can ruin them for the rest of their lives.

One of the Satanic rules of Earth says “Do not harm little children”.

Just ask yourself… could those Christian cartoons be considered “harmful”.
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#117104 - 08/14/05 07:59 PM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Quote:

I dont really think it matters if they are the enemy or not in this situation, he needs work and he doesnt do it someone else will get hired instead.

Not to mention it sounds like it wont make much of a dent, plus he gets money and builds a portfolio with it. I say go for it.




My comments are not directly aimed at the original poster. It is up to him whether he takes the job or not.

Though personally, as I have pointed out, I would never lend my services to them.

Rather, I was addressing the seemingly popular opinion that Satanism is not anti-Christian. Which in fact it is.





I am still kinda working it through my head. I obviously think its no good, but at the same time I think that if it was eliminated somehow people would just subscribe to some other kind of rubbish.

People are starting to reject christ more than ever, I will have to wait and see if its a good thing.
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#117105 - 08/15/05 12:19 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Nevermore]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10146
Personally, I see exactly what you mean. Warlock UVRay is precisely correct in stating that contrary to what some may think, Satanism is an anti-Christian religion. If there's really any doubt about this, read The Book of Satan, then repeat this procedure until what it says thoroughly sinks in.

Also, I think it may be that an important component of this is overlooked by many who have responded: personal pride.

Yes, it is very easy for one to say to another, "Don't let your pride get in the way of making money." Fine, lets apply it differently.

To the women: How many of you would be willing to quit your current occupation and take up prostitution or stripping? Both jobs have the potential to make significantly better than middle class income, and both permit massive use of lesser magic, do they not? I personally find both of them to be perfectly honorable vocations, and certainly many of the ladies here are more than attractive enough to make six figures in these fields. So why not do what's best for your pocketbook, and take the low road?

To the men: See above, but apply this to your wife/girlfriend. Conversely, why not consider homosexual prostitution? Also makes a killing, and there's no indignity in it.

If you think I'm being facetious, consider that unless your income presently meets six figures, you seriously could improve your station in life by taking my advice. So why aren't you doing it? My guess is because your personal pride does not permit it. You may even respect the occupation (or not), but you personally have no desire to take part in it, even if the monetary rewards are considerable.

I think the exact same is true of Mr. Nevermore. If he feels that doing this would damage his personal pride, then it is a valid reason to think twice about doing it. If he were starving, or would not find work at all without taking jobs from Christian churches, then I would argue that his pride is counter-productive; on the other hand, if he could likely do well without lowering his personal pride and taking this job, and any slight monetary loss is worth it to him, then he should act accordingly.

In the end, only he can judge his priorities and therefore decide what is best for him.
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#117106 - 08/15/05 03:27 AM Re: A moral dilemma [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Interesting examples Warlock Leviathan,

Which brings us to pornography.

I don't know why the laws change suddenly when you add a camera to the picture, because it's essentially the same thing as prostitution. Perhaps Christians felt better if they could get in on the action via second-hand voyeurism? Come to think of it the job sounds kind of fun, albeit risky. I never really thought about doing adult entertainment work, I might just look into doing some porno. Thanks for the idea!

Now, to find someone that wants a well-endowed, skinny, white guy to do the old bump-n-grind on celluloid...

_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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