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#118018 - 08/21/05 10:38 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: Mjollnir]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Quote:

Even if all this were somehow possible, you would then have to attempt to be sexually attracted to such a creature or use artificial means to complete the process.






If you watch the wonderful, extensively researched documentary 2069: A Sexy Odyssey, you will see that sexual attraction should be no problem.
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#118019 - 08/21/05 10:43 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: Discipline]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

However, ruthlessness does not begets intelligence.



I didn't mean to say it did, if that’s what it sounded like what I meant, then I should clarify. The human race needs to stop dragging the weak sick and dying along with us for the sake of pity and mercy. If someone with a disabling genetic disease can do something worthwhile, like Stephen Hawking, then we should at least help them, but not help them to reproduce (in other words they should be sterilized). You are in fact correct in your statement, that ruthlessness does not produce intelligence. But the lack of it does tend to breed in weakness, and I consider stupidity a weakness.


Quote:

Does that mean you should sympathize with idiots. No, but at least realize that intelligence does not beget intelligence when dealing with physical reproduction.




Which is why I'm not overly concerned with finding another Satanist to breed with. As I said, over a generation, no, it's not. But over a thousand, yes, it will become a factor, and a big one, let alone ten thousand.

Quote:

Did the Neanderthals die off because of Homo sapiens’ use of weapons and tactics, or because of higher competition for food sources and their own lack of action?




It wasn't due to lack of action, it was due to us competing with them for the same land and resources and being better at that competition. And among what Neanderthal skulls and other remains they have found, the majority they found had damage caused by stone implements commonly used by Homo Sapiens at the same time period (especially on the skulls, a favored killing blow through out human history). It's a fact, we competed with them, we killed them, probably ate a few of them too. But that last part is just conjecture.

Quote:

If we were to talk in terms of using genetic engineering to create intelligence and strength, then I would see no argument. Instead of relying on random combination of chemicals in the womb, we could depend on a structured and controled technology.





Yes gamatogenesis is a crap shoot, and the day we know enough about the human genome is the day you'll start to see designer babies being born. And of course these children will have a definate advatage over non engineered babies. This will of course stratisfy society, and that will be at least one point of the pentagonal revisionism implemented.


Edited by Jack_Lantern (08/21/05 10:52 AM)
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#118020 - 08/21/05 12:10 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: Mjollnir]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Quote:

Quote:

I think nature will take care of most of the population long before man gets the chance to blow it all to shit.




That's what I've always figured: Nature will end mankind before mankind is able to end nature. We are living in a relatively stable period in time, aside from a few earthquakes, tidal waves, hurricanes, and tornadoes. The earth will always go through changes. If a species can survive, then it will. If it cannot survive, it will perish. Just look at the dinosaurs. Only certain species survived from that time period. Who would have guessed that the cockroach would outlive the mighty Tyrannosaurus Rex?

Hopefully, the human cockroaches won't be the ones to survive if some drastic change were to occur. I would doubt it, though. I think the ones who will survive are going to be the ones who are in touch with nature, and the natural world.




I'd like to think that man will be here for a while but I don't like to seperate humans from other life forms on earth. Life is life. If cockroaches are the only ones left, then "we" are still here. "We" meaning life. I would sacrifice one species of life if it were the only way to save the rest of life on earth.


Edited by johnharperjr (08/21/05 12:14 PM)
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#118021 - 08/21/05 03:45 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: Jack_Lantern]
chimera Offline


Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 94
Loc: Sacramento, CA U.S.A.
Right and wrong. Evolution happens in thousands of microsteps, in response to the environment mostly. The height, size thing isn't evolution, it's adaptation. There are pygmy elephants, pygmy rhinos and pygmy pygmies. Keep going for 50 to 100 thousand years and the changes will be permanently embedded. That's evolution...
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#118022 - 08/21/05 08:25 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: Jack_Lantern]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Yes, I see your point clearly now and I agree. It was a misunderstanding on my part. Thanks.
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#118023 - 08/21/05 10:02 PM A few comments on answers already here. [Re: pitzi_83]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
On nature.

Everything is natural. Nothing is artificial.

What most people mean by "nature" is everything that is not man-made.

On improving the human species.

It is already happening.

Organ transplants and artifical parts (hips, ankles, elbows, etc) are now everyday events.

The human genome project was completed over two years ago and that means that we are able to read the blueprint for the human machine.

Between biomechanics, plasma physics and molecular nanotechnology the definition of "human being" in the next twenty years will include what today would be considered superhuman fantasy.

The human species is creating its own "evolution" now.

There is no debate on this subject.

You are either informed or behind the curve.

Here is a good place to start: http://www.kurzweilai.net

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#118024 - 08/22/05 05:20 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: chimera]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Yes such differing breeds take longer than a millenia to produce unless we are talking actual breeding programs, which is not speciation and adaptation due to natural selection, but merely adaptation due to trait selection. Thank you for clarifying.
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#118025 - 08/22/05 05:24 AM Re: A few comments on answers already here. [Re: Nemo]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

The human genome project was completed over two years ago and that means that we are able to read the blueprint for the human machine.




We have the blueprint, we are still learning to read it, and once that has been accomplished we will be able to write into it. Every time there is a new patent based on a human gene thats a signal that more of our "gene language" has been learned.
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#118026 - 08/22/05 01:03 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: InfesT]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
>>Id love to know exactly how life was formed,
>>the big bang is pretty convincing but no hard
>>evidence.

The Big Bang deals with cosmology, not biology. The subject that deals with "how life formed" is abiogenesis. If you want to know more about these subjects, then go out and find books and journals on the subject. Keep in mind that these are big subjects and to learn anything significant you'll have to go beyond layman's terms. Oh, and watch out for the pseudo-science crap that mystics love to rally under.
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#118027 - 08/22/05 02:49 PM Re: A few comments on answers already here. [Re: Nemo]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Thank you, Magister.
And, I must recommend again, (for probably the millionth time on this forum!) that everyone interested in this topic read
"The Age of Spiritual Machines" by Ray Kurzweil.

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#118028 - 08/22/05 10:18 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
redgriffin Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 211
Damned you thats what I wanted! Now i'm going to have toi wear the lame ass red glasses!

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#118029 - 08/22/05 11:55 PM Re: Evolution? [Re: chimera]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
What you said made sense, but I'm confused by something else. If this is evolution, than what is Neoteny exactly?
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#118030 - 08/23/05 12:48 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: Jack_Lantern]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Quote:

I'll agree with you if you can prove that the increase in height is not do to improved nutrition and medicine.




Ethiopia - they are mostly malnourished and have very little health care. Yet they are the same size, if not taller, then Americans or Europeans. Just a hell of a lot skinnier.
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#118031 - 08/23/05 08:56 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: False_Messiah78]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

WRONG! It is a FACT that humans today are a good deal taller then they were in the Middle Ages. And that was only Centuries ago. Tovashi mentioned this in her post. Apparently you must have skipped over that sentence.

In Medieval times, the average human was only around 4 feet tall. These days, it is not out of the ordinary to see a 6 foot tall human.

While this change is not as dramatic as, say, growing or loosing a tail. it is still evolution none-the-less.





You might want to research that a little better.
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#118032 - 08/23/05 10:20 AM Re: Evolution? [Re: tovasshi]
Remorazz Offline


Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Check THIS out...

Or THIS



Edited by Remorazz (08/23/05 10:22 AM)
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