Gentlemen, let us do that title justice. I have kept this thread in the public forum rather than remove it to the members' forum because so far it has been polite and some of the main participants are nonmembers. Please, do not let tempers flare when we disagree.

I would prefer if we are able to allow candid conversation even in public forums, but if anyone is honestly offended by comments here and it has become too personal, then I will simply move it below, or out of sight entirely.

I had an ambulance ride late last year, but it wasn't serious and I turned out not to need any services (or even the ambulance, really).

Ambulances in Canada may vary as much as they do here in the US, depending on ownership, jurisdiction, and population served.

The ambulance I staff is relatively new, with up to date equipment and drugs.

I had a chance to work with an ambulance crew in Wyoming two years ago, when the group I was riding motorcycles with came upon a roll-over accident.

The two rattle-trap rigs that showed up did not really inspire me with confidence considering the distances they have to traverse to the nearest hospital.

But, that's what they had to work with.

I would assume that ambulances in Canada are covered by some kind of local regulations, as they are in different states in the US.

There's a pretty simple solution to public health care. In fact, it's already been put to work in another professional field. In the law field, plenty of people are happy to be a public defender. You get what you pay for, but the idea is that any lawyer is better than none at all. Then of course, there are lawyers who go into private practice and make the big bucks. This is how I feel about socialized health care. There can be free clinics and doctors who are approved by and who accept payment from the government (kinda like what's done with Medicaid.) Then there's a higher level of care with the really skilled doctors. You have to pay extra for extra care, but this happens already. I mean, seriously, do you think Bill Gates goes to the local yokel doctor down at the free clinic? This system works great. There's still a financial incentive to be a doctor, there's an incentive to be exceptional in the field, and the rest of us can have some medical care.

According to the World health orginization (WHO) Canada outranks the US. France actually came in first. Canada is 30th, the US came in 37th. We were both beaten by Saudi Arabia (27). Canada has an infant mortality rate of 4.8 and a life expectancy of 80.1. The US has an infant mortality of 6.5 and life expectancy of 77.7.

On ambulances. From personal experience, it depends on what city you live in. All the ones I have seen have had fully equiped with all the supplies.

I was not myself making that implication, and while I do not speak for Colonel Akula, I believe he is with me on this: I do not find Tovasshi's family to be irresponsible for doing what is best for them, even if it means taking advantage of an irresponsible government system; indeed, were it my own daughter I would choose her health over ideologies without hesitation.

However, Tovasshi made the mistake of transferring what is best for her family as an argument for why Canada's governmental system is superior, and that is what I, and apparently others, disagree with. I am not "anti Canadian" but I think that the degree to which liberalism is embraced there is sometimes disgusting. It is like California and the Yankees had a lovechild and tossed it to the north!

What anyone thinks of her otherwise is their own business, but I doubt that Canadians themselves would fault her for a situation she can do little about; what can you do, refuse treatment? Yet no doubt you see the glaring logical hole in her line of argument; her family currently uses this system, and though an American citizen in similar circumstance would probably have equal ability to receive treatment, she concluded that Canadian social systems are therefore superior. And of course the whole "most laws" comment which was absurd on the face of it.

I think the Netherlands is a good example of a de facto Satanic nation. I rational approach to life: materially well-off, with tolerance for different philosophies, gay marriage, prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. Maybe a bit too soft on crime, though.

In my country they practice witch crafting but i here is different altogether that is why i want to learn much here