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#123194 - 09/23/05 06:44 PM A Satanic nation.
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
"PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM:

A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM"

after I briefly read this short text I stumbled upon a question...

Should a nation declare itself Satanic (not the most reasonable
occurance due to the existence of the herds...),
How will it conduct itself?
What laws will change?

What do you think a satanic nation should be like?

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#123195 - 09/23/05 06:49 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
You might (or might not) find this discussion of interest.
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#123196 - 09/23/05 06:53 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Bloodfire Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 2523
Loc: Honolulu, HI
One of the five points being zero tolerence for religious issues being incorpoerated into law, it should be clear that Satanism advocates a secular govornment, thusly, a nation may have inherently Satanic qualities, but to say such-and-such nation will take up Satanism--or any religion--as its official national religion smacks of proselytizing, which is another thing Satanism is opposed to.
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#123197 - 09/23/05 09:18 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Its been discussed before.. a lot. Its simply not a good idea. ANY religion + government = problems.
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#123198 - 09/24/05 07:46 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
Sorry for the repeating post, I did a search "Satanic+nation"
on the search option and found endless topics that didn't
quite match my search. thank you for the link.

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#123199 - 09/24/05 08:05 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
There is already a Satanic Nation. It is called the United States of America.

Even with the apparent revival of Christian freaks we are experiencing lately, this is still the first and only Satanic Nation in the world.
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#123200 - 09/24/05 08:14 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Old_Pig]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
Truthfully, the question arose while I was watching some
history channel special on Rome.

From what I'm currently reading in The Church of Satan,
The closest thing is a secular, free nation with a high tolerance
for individuallity.

The US of A, like you said.

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#123201 - 09/24/05 10:44 AM "Did Satan just picked one country" .... [Re: Old_Pig]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
"There is already a Satanic Nation. It is called the United States of America"

"this is still the first and only Satanic Nation in the world"

Could you explain this ? in which contest ?

That sounded odd to me, thinking that Satanism is about all other this Earth. How could it be different ?

it could also makes me think about scientologists who have opinions like this,I mean by the fact that " USA is the heritage" and etc..Each country has its "atlantis dream" I see.

so yes, I would want to know in which sense you have written this.


Edited by Assabrah (09/24/05 11:16 AM)
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#123202 - 09/24/05 09:27 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country" .... [Re: Assabrah]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
the 'american dream' is pretty damn satanic. Also, I think the US is more devoted to indulgence (look at the businesses, products that are popular), we dont have national health care, and welfare is usually limited. I dont know if thats what he means, but I think america is pretty satanic over all...
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#123203 - 09/24/05 09:53 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: uncleherpe]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
This is your supposition, I don't go against.

But what I have read >>>

-"There is already a Satanic Nation. It is called the United States of America"

-"this is still the first and only Satanic Nation in the world".

Yes, this sounds like scientologists >>>" YOU U.S son belong to the race... The others??? Do you speak about other countries?? Ahh ok, you mean these other "planets"...Well, they're not PURE"... I don't even want to go on, because here, I wouldn't wish a vomit rain, but I would go ahead with napalm .

This, go against THE concept.

A satanist is really over this thing called Natonalism, and anyway, a satanist borned anywhere is borned anywhere.

I am FRENCH. then?? Am I talking about all "my" culture trying to justify something? no. I don't feel concerned by being french, but only by being myself.

There are some things where we have to travel to see, to know, watching TV won't help.

And I still wait for an answer.


Edited by Assabrah (09/24/05 10:21 PM)
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#123204 - 09/24/05 11:11 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: Assabrah]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
I don’t understand how you could come out with so many twisted meaning I never intended in my post.

I said the United States is the one and only Satanic Nation , I never said it was the only place in the world where Satanists lived. I never said anything about Nationalism. I never said anything about other countries being unSatanic. I never said anything about cultures or purity and even less about Scientology.

So you are French? Well, I don't even have an official nationality, and I dont feel less Satanic for that. Actually I feel kind of proud for not having a country I can call my own. Patriotism is an alien concept to me.

Why I think U.S. is a Satanic Nation? A country that embraces materialism, egotism, individualism, indulgence...

As High Priest Peter H. Gilmore said in a recent interview:

We see the U.S. as being very unique in history, the world's first Satanic republic, and so it is important to many Satanists.
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#123205 - 09/25/05 02:05 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Phenylalanine Offline


Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Michigan
A speculative country that selected Satanistic philosophies as its national religion? Intriguing.

I'm tempted to say that the United States is too far away from the good of the human condition to be considered Satanistic. While the freedom involved allows people to pursue their own indulgences, it also provides good old-fashioned Christian morality to guilt-trip and distort things that should be felt good about.

Ideally, a Satanic nation would have to start out that way in order to remove guilty stigmas. As a result, I'm sure, flocks of the religiously persecuted (I use the term loosely) would migrate into the area. Since it worked so well with Protestantism and the United States, it might actually be a good thing.

Good question to ask.
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#123206 - 09/25/05 11:52 AM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: Old_Pig]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
All this talk makes me think about paying a visit to the US.

Man, all that freedom and diversity, all that commercialism
and culture...
Sound like a different plant!

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#123207 - 09/25/05 10:52 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Phenylalanine]
Maninblack Offline


Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Garland, Texas
Capitalism can be seen as very Satanic, or opportunistic to Satanists, while liberal politics pushes ever so steadily to a Marxist/socialist stance, which tends to be weakness-empowering in many aspects, which one would think of as being anti-Satanic in nature.
In many ways the USA is very Satanic, and in other ways we are just the opposite. Freedoms, such as we've enjoyed, open wide avenues for both perspectives. I enjoy being able to walk into a corporate book store and buy the Satanic Bible, but I'm in opposition to the one who'll walk into the same store and buy fundamentalist Christian or Islamic literature because they support it. As much as WE would like to see it, I think a Satanic USA can never be. A free USA, though, enables us to thrive in ways we might not in other types of government.
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#123208 - 09/26/05 10:32 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Bloodfire]
AlricTarrant Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 77
Loc: The Empire State
I think another problem with the United States declaring itself to be a Satanic nation is the concept of elitism inherent within Satanin philosophy. An entire country, or at least an important institution within a country like its government, embracing a religion or ideology will lead to it gaining a lot more followers than if it simply existed on its own. Do Satanists really want the entire country to be focused on Satanism and for Satanism to be a "goodguy badge" and a sign of conformity to the country's main religion? I certainly don't. I think that America's position as an unofficial Satanic nation (capitalism, relatively free speech, seperation of church and state for the most part) is perfectly fine, even if there are some cooky Christian out there trying to force their own ideas on the rest of us. They are free to do so, and I am free to ignore them.
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#123209 - 06/20/06 11:05 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Old_Pig]
FoX Offline


Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 56
Loc: North Carolina ,USA
I totally agree with you!

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"Satana Nascitur, Non Fit." - Diego Fox


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#123210 - 06/20/06 02:32 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: Assabrah]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Indeed. A good argument Assabrah!

I am "american" because I happened to be flopped out here. I don't see the connection between Satanism, and any Nation. I see that subjective activity in ANY nation can be Satanic, but not limited to any one Nation in particular.

My view on America is ALMOST like that of Man In Black's.

I tend to lean toward the negative with this country, because the positive is subjective; for me only. While the negative here seems to linger in an objective manner; i.e. ass holes with overly loud rap music; arguing in the street right in front of my house where my daughter plays, speeding cars, wreckless driver and etc.

And while these things may be fun for them, it ends up interrupting my life in one way or another.

Nations, Countries, or even Towns, cannot be Satanic, it isn't possible.

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#123211 - 06/20/06 02:36 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: Old_Pig]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Why I think U.S. is a Satanic Nation? A country that embraces materialism, egotism, individualism, indulgence...

As High Priest Peter H. Gilmore said in a recent interview:

We see the U.S. as being very unique in history, the world's first Satanic republic, and so it is important to many Satanists.




---


This makes sense to me, in some slight context. Again though, it is subjective.

Objectively speaking, it is simply not true.

I can make those attributes to Greenland.

"All I'd need were a few good Satanists."

(Excuse the pun.)
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#123212 - 06/20/06 02:37 PM Re: "Did Satan just picked one country"... [Re: pitzi_83]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Ha!

Well, it is different, that is for sure. But hey, every pile of trash has different properties.
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#123213 - 06/20/06 02:40 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Maybe I'm not making a connection.

Solitude, as far as I can see (A person, IN a nation in solitude) is the same thing that you are sying.

So, does that mean if enough people do this, regardless of what the "nation" in question says it stands for, is now "Satanic"

This reminds me of someone saying, "I'm not an abusive person to tresspassers, I'm a "security guard".

giving something two meanings. Basic NLP reframing tactic.

Saying it doesn;t make it true, because you, I, or anyone else can see these "better sides" subjectively.
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#123214 - 06/20/06 02:42 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Bloodfire]
man_mind Offline
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Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Which makes Satanism "free for the individual".

Thanks for the summa on ALL of my replies.

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#123215 - 06/20/06 09:57 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Maninblack]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
From My brief visit to America, I would note that your herd is far more herdlike than ours, and your government seems in many ways to do things to reinforce that within the system.

However, your structure of society is perhaps more Satanic than ours in the things that it really champions.

The American dream, hey?

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#123217 - 06/20/06 10:34 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Linguascelesta]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I think you're awfully close to the money with that assessment.
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#123218 - 06/22/06 06:40 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Illuminatus Offline


Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Hellsinki, Finland
Just a little thought: I agree that the US is probably the most satanic country in the world, or perhaps Holland back in the day. But there is, and probably will never be, a nation solely built on the philosophies of satanism.

First off satanists are a very small minority among the herd, 90% of humanity isn't capable of grasping the idea of actual freedom. Second, no nation can be built on philosophy alone, not even on satanism. The political reality is harsh and full of compromises.
For instance, a low social security may be satanic and philosophically feasible. But the reality is that if you leave the underclasses with nothing they'll surely rebel. The following costs in military and police strenght cost much more than the basic social scurity. Remember, nothing is more dangerous than a person with nothing to loose.
Remember the Romans and their bread and circuses.
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#123219 - 06/22/06 07:44 PM Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: Linguascelesta]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
I'd also like to add as an addendum to that, the fact that I notice that the average street in Los Angeles seems to have about as many churches as the average street here in Manchester has pubs.

A very religious people, clearly!

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#123220 - 06/22/06 07:51 PM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: Linguascelesta]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
And a very British way of looking at things.

The state of California alone is larger than the British Isles. Los Angeles is in a heavily Hispanic, and therefore Catholic, part of America. Which if you think about, makes them kind of like a pub.

America has an extremely diverse population. In New York, I saw more pickle vendors than churches.

It is of course true that as an aggregate, Americans are more religious, but you don't exactly notice it that often, especially in a city like Los Angeles.
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#123221 - 06/22/06 09:28 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I think a Satanic nation really depends on the Satanists living in it.

I would not feel safe at all living in the USA, my personal needs will not be met and the culture is not of my taste and I do not agree with most of the laws.

Where I am, all my needs are met, I feel safe, the culture is to my liking and I am more comfortable with most laws. This country to me, is more Satanic, because it has what *I* want. The reason they don't tax churches here is because it is a public place, other places that do not pay taxes here are schools, cemeteries, libraries and hospitals. However some church fund-raising activities and/or charities are taxed.

When my tastes change and I have traveled a bit more, I may find another nation that I find more appealing and still meet all my needs. That nation will then become my new Satanic Nation. Someplace that will make me happier like The Bahamas, where they tax all religious organizations. There is separation of church and state. There is no welfare system. The environment is beautiful, at least in some parts of the country.

The Bahamas may very well be my future Satanic nation.
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#123222 - 06/22/06 09:28 PM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: Linguascelesta]
S_Magazine Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 197
You should try driving through the backwoods of East Texas sometime. Each small town has three or four churches, even if the population only hovers around the 300-400 mark.

However, at least they warn you when you're nearing one with a nice, yellow hazard sign proclaiming "CHURCH". I always expect one to jump out and pounce on me.
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#123223 - 06/22/06 11:12 PM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: S_Magazine]
TriKster Offline


Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 124
Loc: Texas
Hehe.. I wonder how they would feel if someone turned all the church signs upside down.. or would Billy Bob and Joe Turnup catch you while shooting at them late at night?

(I live in Texas, I can say that!)



Hail Satan

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#123224 - 06/22/06 11:24 PM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: TriKster]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

Hehe.. I wonder how they would feel if someone turned all the church signs upside down.




I wonder.

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#123225 - 06/22/06 11:48 PM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: Linguascelesta]
TriKster Offline


Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 124
Loc: Texas
Quote:

Quote:

Hehe.. I wonder how they would feel if someone turned all the church signs upside down.




I wonder.




Oh man.. I am dying.. I am saving each of those pictures.. I have to have that collection!

you get the 2 chicken award! (I made it esp for you!)



My favorite HEHEHEHE!

Hail Satan

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#123226 - 06/23/06 10:04 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Ms Tovasshi, do you have any experience living in the States? It's a very diverse country; some places are safer than others. I lived in small-town Alabama for three months and felt perfectly safe -- maybe safer than living in this part of Ontario. (Can't say the culture was to my liking, though....)


Edited by reprobate (06/23/06 10:05 AM)
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#123227 - 06/23/06 10:11 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Unfortunately, youse guys' climate isn't warm enough for my taste, otherwise, I'd consider coming to join ya'll.

Canada should colonize somewhere tropical, and then we'll talk.

Oh, and--if we're listing demands--kindly execute some more people, please. You guys are entirely too soft.


Edited by TrojZyr (06/23/06 04:45 PM)
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#123228 - 06/23/06 10:26 AM Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: TrojZyr]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't know if this has been asked before but do you think there ever will come a time when Satanist are the majority of a major country or even the world and the minority are Christian and other religions? Do you think one day almost all people will embrace Satanism?


Edited by praxilla (06/23/06 10:52 AM)

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#123229 - 06/23/06 10:31 AM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time...
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Heck no.

Satanism requires a certain inherent outlook and personality type.

I do think the world may see a time when Christians are a minority religion, but it is highly, extremely unlikely that Satanists will ever be the reigning majority. I don't ask to become a majority group, anyway.
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#123230 - 06/23/06 11:14 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I disagree with certain laws in Canada, which are set up to my liking in the U.S.A. However, Canada is simply gorgeous. Your geography is amazing. Perhaps I should just move to Alaska instead.

But on the other hand, all of North America is beautiful!
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#123231 - 06/23/06 11:15 AM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time...
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
It's kinda like asking when will kings and queens be the
majority of earth.

Refer to Nemo's post in this thread.

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#123232 - 06/23/06 12:54 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Discipline]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I've been to some gorgeous parts of this country, and I still have a lot to explore. I'd love to see the Pacific Northwest. But right now, I'm living in our part of the Rust Belt. I miss the sea!
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#123233 - 06/23/06 12:59 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
WinterGoat Offline


Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 151
Loc: WA State
Quote:

I'd love to see the Pacific Northwest.




I wouldn't recommend it, unless you really like a lot of cold rain.
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#123234 - 06/23/06 01:13 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Quaark]
Poetic_Berserker Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/23/03
Posts: 458
Loc: Germany
Quote:

Visit rural Kansas sometime.
Los Angelenos are rugged individualists by comparison.
We got herds to beat anyones herds!





Now THERE is a truthful statement. I grew up on a farm in Kansas. I am not saying growing up on a farm there is bad, but, there isn't a lot variety of people there. Granted, you do get a lot of time to think and learn about yourelf and who you are though. I think I learned more what I disliked living in Kansas than what I do like. Kansas is still my home though, I do enjoy some aspects of it.
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#123235 - 06/23/06 01:56 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Bleedingmind Offline


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: Salt lake City Utah (Betcha di...
"In god we trust." This is not always true. Sadly this nation is run by christianities of such. They do not realize the hypocrassy behind this. As forcive as they can be, they do not realize that they embrace death and war. They speak of "BROTHERLY LOVE" and yet they destroy each other over petty squables. More like animals than they realize, they hide themselves from this, but the dream is still there my friend and it would be an interesting land at that.
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#123236 - 06/23/06 02:01 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: pitzi_83]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah uhh...should have said this to begin with but what I wanted to say was: Do you think there will come a time when the philosophies of Satanism on indulgence are accepted and practiced outright, rather than people denying them? I guess these people would be practicing the Santanic philosophy without knowing it as opposed to practicing the religion.

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#123237 - 06/23/06 02:05 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I would recomend some research, if you havent already done so
on Niccolo Machiavelli, and his political treatise The Prince.

I would say that The United States is clearly a Satanic Nation. With founding fathers like Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and countless others who signed the Declaration of Independence, were all Freemasons or members of some other sect, and all were accused of having heretical ideas.
Washington, D.C., was dedicated, and oriented, to the Dog Star Sirius, which in the Egyptian Mysteries, is Satan .
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#123238 - 06/23/06 02:07 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Lust]
Bleedingmind Offline


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 30
Loc: Salt lake City Utah (Betcha di...
Indeed "In god we trust." I love Irony.
_________________________
Vitality is an oppinion. If you can't handle it then leave...here is a razorblade to help you.

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#123239 - 06/23/06 02:08 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: pitzi_83]
TriKster Offline


Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 124
Loc: Texas
Haha...

That is like trying to argue wether or not <<RR..RR..RR.. GEEK ALERT RR..RR..RR..>>

..Wether or not Microsoft Windows will ever go away.. and Linux become the dominant operating system for computers! HAHA (Well it could happen.. but it will happen outside of the USA first).

IMHO.. as the old hardcore Xian generations turn to dust.. and the younger.. generations now coming into power.. there are a few considerations to take into affect regarding the possibility.

1. Xian church attendance will falter, thus churches (a business) will disappear. (This IMHO does not include back country churches.. I mean ones that are not dependant on any currency or outside support but the pulpit, bible and congregation).

2. People will most likely become (IMHO) Athiests first because of:
A. No time for church
B. No upbringing in a Xian based home
C. Loss of faith due to current world events or personal
trajedy.

Athiests of whom where at once Xians, will most likely gravitate towards some sort of belief system.. anything "supernatural" to keep thier minds in order.

Those who find that they need to have something to believe in, in private or not and are strong willed and strong minded might seek out Satanism.

Satanism really does exist around the world.. but most people use "Satanism" "Satan" as a word.. instead of the ideaology or reasoning behind it. Lets say like the word "FUCK"

For some Fuck is a declarative or misused word to represent anger or pain.. or something a group of people might yell out during a soccer/football game <<< joke. It is also for some VERY shocking to hear or read, esp in public.

For others Fuck might describe pleasure and happiness.

So atm it is all wordplay.

Because Satanism IS alive everywhere you look. Think of at least the following:

* "Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!" - Go to Wal-Mart in the USA on Sunday morning

* "Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!" - Notice someone might be more prone to open a door for someone else, (at least I always hold open the door for people).. then to throw change at the homeless guy sitting outside .

The public is not educated, and those that are part of the "Herd mentality" will almost never change, unless something in thier lives dictate a change is needed. For instance:

Bob and his wife smoke 4 packs of cigarettes a day and have for over 25 years. Bob comes down with lung cancer, but it is too late, it has spread to all the nodes of his lungs and is chances of survival are null.

Bob dies several weeks later.

Bob's wife, quits smoking and spends her husband's $500,000 life insurance policy on benifits and public awareness to get other people to quit smoking...

So look at this
enraged Xian. Also notice at the end what it says in the type text. Try to wonder, would she ever proclaim herself a Satanist, even though (not a Satanist... ) SHE ACTS LIKE the spawn of Satan? (for horror movie and noveltie's sake).

So those of us who are true Satanists.. we will exist in numbers that no sheet of paper can show.. (Back off CIA). We are good people. Even if a Satanist saved a kid from a burning house and the media heard of it.. it (IHMO) would not be aired if it was mentioned that a "Satanist" saved that child, or anything regarding Satanism / a Satanist would be removed. But if it was Jerry Falwell who saved the kid, the media and the world would rejoice that such a great miracle of Xian life had happened.

The most ironic and greatest thing I would love to see is... a "Stigmata" of Xianity put on someone that is seen the world over and after the smoke clears they proclaim that they were a Satanist. I would bet you would get people converting left and right.. even though a Stigmata of Xianity has nothing to do with Satanic views and belief. (correct me if I am wrong).

Finally... if you want to see a "Satanic" world.. just look around you, it is already here. The truth is just buried in wordplay and those who pretend to be on both sides of the fence, I really think those are the true evil ones.. they do evil in the name of Satan then ask for redemption during Xian communion so they can do whatever they want. It is like a bank of self destruction.

So don't mind those people and don't try to proselytize those you think you can pull out of the Matrix. People can only figure it out on their own.

Hail Satan

TriKster
_________________________
Hail Satan TriKster http://www.hells-militia.org

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#123240 - 06/23/06 02:21 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Most of the laws? Most effective criminal laws in the US are the same laws (in effect) as those in Canada, UK, Germany, and elsewhere.

Which precise laws are you referring to?

I've met a few Canadians who imagined the US was dangerous. One biology professor here in particular mentioned that upon coming here to teach, he was quite concerned that we had shootouts in the streets and the country was one big wild west.

As I recall, after years of living here, the only thing he now misses about Canada is the socialized health care (I'm not sure why he cares, he has very good university health insurance and the doctors in Lexington are among the best in the world). That, and presumably the cold, as he was constantly sweating bullets even in the winter.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123241 - 06/23/06 03:44 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I get free healthcare

AND

I get to walk around in public topless.

Just to name a few...


Edited by tovasshi (06/23/06 03:46 PM)
_________________________
Hi.

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#123242 - 06/23/06 03:48 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
That's the extent of it?

You actually walk around topless?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123243 - 06/23/06 03:54 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
That isn't the extent of it, but those are some great laws.

Yes, I go topless, I was at the beach just an hour ago actually. It was a public beach too.

I also like how I can write off anything I buy outside of the province on my income tax. Also there are a lot more things we can do here, we don't have any anti-butsex laws (aside from age of consent). I will have to reread up my favourite laws, I have them hidden away somewhere.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123244 - 06/23/06 03:55 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Quote:


I get to walk around in public topless.

Just to name a few...




That is legal in New York State too.

Funny how all these women fought for the right to walk around topless back in the '80s but none of them exercise that right.
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#123245 - 06/23/06 03:59 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: False_Messiah78]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Funny thing here in Ontario, we technically never had a law against it and it didn't come to light until someone called the cops on her neighbour for sunbathing in her backyard. They took her in and she told them they had no right to. After looking it up, they discovered there wasn't a law against it. It then hit the news. Not too many women do it because they are sensitive about their bodies, and the rest aren't aware of it.


Edited by tovasshi (06/23/06 04:00 PM)
_________________________
Hi.

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#123246 - 06/23/06 04:08 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
America has no sodomy laws. They were stricken down years ago as unconstitutional, and were not particularly enforced before that.

About taxes: if you live in one American state and purchase something from another state via mail, you pay no state sales tax. Some states have no sales tax at all.

So in Canada, I could: Go to a beach and see topless girls, at least those that want to be topless, during the limited summer months.

In America, I could (depending on state law): Purchase and carry as many firearms as I care to, go to a beach year round, go to a private topless pool or nudist beach, and hire a prostitute.

Out of all American states, I probably favor Nevada's state laws the most, and Florida's second (Vermont isn't far behind at all). Nevada permits concealed carry, gambling, prostitution, has topless pools, and has no open container laws (alcohol). It doesn't get much more liberal than that.

Canada sounds quite nice, but I fail to see how the difference in laws actually favors Canada, unless you really, really need free healthcare and can't get insurance (having a decent job here means you probably have insurance).
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123247 - 06/23/06 04:30 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
Wow. The revival of this post just shows me how much
I have learned about myself, the world and Satanism -

And also how much more I have to learn.

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#123248 - 06/23/06 04:44 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
You seriously think there are no nude beachs in the US? You never been to San Diego's Black Beach then. Plenty of nudity there.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123249 - 06/23/06 05:05 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Discipline]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Public, not designated nude areas. And not just beaches. I can, in fact, walk down city streets topless.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123250 - 06/23/06 05:15 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
LeviathanXIII, guns may be good for you, but I do not like guns. Gambling and prostitution are legal here, and may I mention that the topless thing includes walking down the street. Women can be topless any place a man can.

I don't drink and I don't smoke tobaco or pot, pot has been decriminalized, you can cary up to 30 grams of pot.

Why would I pay health insurance if I don't have to? That is an extra few bucks I can put in my pocket for other things.

It may not be good for you, as it is for me. Just like where you are is good for you, but not for me.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123251 - 06/23/06 05:25 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Quote:

Women can be topless any place a man can.




Same in New York. Notice how in MY post I mentioned nothing about beaches.

Quote:

pot has been decriminalized, you can cary up to 30 grams of pot




I don't know where you are getting your information from, but marijuana is illegal here - period. Regardless of quantity. Quantity comes into place during sentencing - not innocence or guilt.

I don't pretend to know about Canadian law - please don't pretend to know about American law. (Unless you have a Juris Doctorate from a U.S. institution)
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#123252 - 06/23/06 05:27 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
That sure is nice. I bet all the sleazy moronic men love that.

I can see how that might be a nice law, but in the end it is not something I see as beneficial.

To be honest, if my girlfriend said she wanted to walk around town topless, I would start wondering if she had an identity problem.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123253 - 06/23/06 05:29 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: False_Messiah78]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
She was talking about Canadian law and not American law.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123254 - 06/23/06 05:36 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: TriKster]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes, I understand now. I realize how silly that post sounds now that I remember that, as a Satanist, you would do what's in your best interest and not pay attention to the slow blokes around you...I'll try not to come across ignorant next time .

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#123255 - 06/23/06 05:42 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Discipline]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
I was confused - she mentions she doesn't do it but then mentions that it's legal.
_________________________
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SETI@Home Team

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#123256 - 06/23/06 06:08 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
My point is not that America is better (although I very strongly favor American gun laws over Canadian gun laws, and the Canadian pro-drug stance is a strike against them if you ask me), rather that the differences you perceive are either nonexistant or so trivial that I fail to see how it defines a preference for one country over another.

If you like Canadian culture, that's great, no argument there. But why pretend that this is entrenched in law? You said "most laws," but we've reduced this to a terribly small minority of laws that are even variable at all, most of which are the same as in many US states. This is, by the way, the same situation the above mentioned Canadian professor discovered over here: it's not nearly so different as you imagine.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123257 - 06/23/06 06:09 PM Culture. [Re: Discipline]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
Different rules for different animals.

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#123258 - 06/23/06 06:45 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time...
TriKster Offline


Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 124
Loc: Texas
Damn thee infernal Computer APC Backup UPS!

I had a great long winded post (of course long, it is written by me the madman) and a friggin rubber chicken.. just as I went to hit the button to submit the post... my computer shut down!

ARRG!



Hail Satan and curse my UPS system!

TriKster
_________________________
Hail Satan TriKster http://www.hells-militia.org

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#123259 - 06/23/06 08:48 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: TriKster]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Maybe it's your computer's way of saying 'lay off the rubber chickens"

That happened to me before and man did it piss me off. My advice: If you know you are going to type a relatively long post do it in Microsoft Word and save it occassionally. That way if you computer crashes you don't have to start the whole thing over again.

Learned that one the hard way!
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#123260 - 06/23/06 09:13 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: False_Messiah78]
TriKster Offline


Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 124
Loc: Texas
Quote:

That happened to me before and man did it piss me off. My advice: If you know you are going to type a relatively long post do it in Microsoft Word and save it occassionally. That way if you computer crashes you don't have to start the whole thing over again.

Learned that one the hard way!




Hehe, ya, I think I might have some sort of MS Office product around here somewhere, I just fell off the Linux/BSD bus and haven't had the chance to figure out what to do atm. I might just use Mozilla's Thunderbird, save it as a draft, plus it has speel checker!

NO Rubber chicken for you!

P.S. It was a true crash.. a crash between my foot and the UPS power button..

Hail Satan

TriKster
_________________________
Hail Satan TriKster http://www.hells-militia.org

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#123261 - 06/23/06 09:16 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: TriKster]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
It was a true crash.. a crash between my foot and the UPS power button.

Your just having all sorts of problems today, aren't you?
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#123262 - 06/23/06 09:18 PM Re: Do you think there ever will come a time... [Re: TriKster]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Openoffice.org products will also work for that purpose.
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#123263 - 06/24/06 09:29 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: False_Messiah78]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Well maybe that is a good thing because many, MANY of them shouldn't.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123264 - 06/24/06 09:59 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Discipline]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
You hit the nail on the head there.

Many of the women who walk around topless up here usually do it on Canada Day and paint red Maple Leaves over their nipples or do it once.

By that time the novelty usually wears off and they can say that they are liberated, modern "womyn".

The rest of the women who strut around topless in public have an ego deficit and are starved for attention.

Hardly a selling point for a nation as a whole. Maybe that describes Canada; a tit on the global map; fun to play with, nice to look at but little more than mild amusement.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123265 - 06/24/06 10:07 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
Quote:

I get free healthcare

AND

I get to walk around in public topless.

Just to name a few...




Actually, your health care is not free. It is hidden in your taxes and in everything you buy.


Edited by Magister_Lang (06/24/06 10:11 AM)
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#123266 - 06/24/06 10:37 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Magister_Lang]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I am well aware my taxes pay for it

I consider it free because the amount of health care my family has used up is well over the amount of money we have all payed in taxes combined, roughly 20k to 30k a year on average. The only thing we had to pay for was about 1500 dollars worth of ambulance rides.
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#123267 - 06/24/06 12:06 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I must say, Canada's independence day is lots of fun. Most Americans tend to take the 4th of July very seriously at some level, and American patriotism tends to be quite dour indeed. When I observed Canadians celebrating their independence day, they seemed to be having a genuinely happy, carefree time. Canada perhaps needs to develop slightly bigger cojones, but I do find its unpretentious modesty to be rather refreshing.

I mean, as we speak, some of America's politicians are dredging up the obscure issue of lighting fire to a particular coloured piece of fabric YET AGAIN.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#123268 - 06/24/06 03:06 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quite agree.


Edited by luciferHammer (06/24/06 03:08 PM)

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#123269 - 06/24/06 06:21 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
So basically it is free for you because all of the rest of us are paying for it...?
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123270 - 06/24/06 06:26 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: TrojZyr]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Well with all of the low rent leeches draining our national reserves in "free" healthcare, welfare payments and other state-provided gratuities we simply can't afford to give our essential institutions like the military and the police services modern equipment or proper training.

Three generations of lazy, socialist parasites demanding their "free" services have rendered the nation globally impotent. But hey, at least we can show off our boobies in public.

Vote NDP!!!
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123271 - 06/24/06 06:31 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
That's a shame.

As usual, there is a subtle balance that neither America nor Canada manages to strike properly, yes?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#123272 - 06/24/06 07:10 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Without that free healthcare, people close to me would be dead.

You also have to understand the size of our population. Canada has a population of about 32 million. The US has 280 million. Of course our millitary or police isn't going to be as equipt as the larger countries. Canada is not a large country. Our cities are not as dense and we don't have as much people paying taxes. We are fairly well equipt for our needs. We have quite a few systems and technologies that US troops are enviouse of, such as our troops communications and tracking system. Also, Canada is not at war and we don't have a need to better equipt our troops. And I have no idea where you are getting this info on us having poorly equipt military anyways? Please explain. Of course you are going to think we are insufficiently equipt and "poor" compared to a country with completely different security needs.
_________________________
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#123273 - 06/24/06 07:37 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Without that free healthcare, people close to me would be dead.

This is absurd in the extreme, at least in terms of comparison to the US.

An American can have absolutely no money whatsoever, and he will not be permitted to just die of medical problems assuming he bothers to go to a hospital.

And again, almost all employers supply medical insurance.

Said people, as US citizens, would either have medical insurance or be receiving government benefits.

Canada doesn't achieve something radical with socialized healthcare (socialized healthcare, not free healthcare); it merely distributes medical costs across the board so that those that don't need, pay, and those that do need, take. Socialism, plain and simple.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123274 - 06/24/06 07:55 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

Canada doesn't achieve something radical with socialized healthcare (socialized healthcare, not free healthcare); it merely distributes medical costs across the board so that those that don't need, pay, and those that do need, take. Socialism, plain and simple.




Exactly. There is no such thing as a "free" socialist anything.
No matter what the program or benefit, there will always be someone to pay for it.

Socialism is the ultimate failure-making machinery of the collectivists.
As has been said by Ayn Rand, Nathaniel Branden and others...

Take a look at any country in the world, and the degree to which they have embraced/applied socialism directly correlates to the extent of that country's decline.
The greater the influence of socialism, the greater the decline.
(Great Britain, Russia, et al.)

Socialism is not the path to be on.
It is just that simple.


HS!
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#123275 - 06/24/06 08:18 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Extreme indeed, but the situation was/is in fact extreme. No ammount of health insurance could have covered it. My family isn't your average healthy family. We had to deal with the country's top specialists and no waiting in lines, that extreme and rare. This is mainly my sister. So rare in fact that Canadian tax dollars went to pay her 20 bucks and hour for research. In the fall your American tax dollars are going to pay for her plane ticket, hotel room and food. Your taxes are also going to pay her being studied for two weeks.

Our family would be denied health insurance if we had to get it. No one wants to pay for 13 hour operations. No one is going to pay healthcare for someone who has a file thicker than the width of your keyboard. We have already looked into, we were going to move to the US, we talked to insurance companies in the US, no one will cover it, so we didn't move.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123276 - 06/24/06 09:13 PM Socialism. [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
It's a tactic, suitable for certain situations.

Israel wouldn't be around if it weren't for that tactic.
And we are balancing it as we go along.

It fits most of Europe. Even now (Though I think that will
change due to Islamic terror).

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#123277 - 06/24/06 09:20 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
No, no insurance company will insure you after you already have a preexisting condition, though certain government benefits will. If you already have good medical insurance, it will cover your costs.

In the fall your American tax dollars are going to pay for her plane ticket, hotel room and food. Your taxes are also going to pay her being studied for two weeks.

Somehow, this goes against your argument.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123278 - 06/24/06 09:37 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
How? Your dollars are going towards research, they arn't treating her. My statement was to emphasize the situation.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123279 - 06/24/06 09:47 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
America has a semi-socialized healthcare system. As I've mentioned, government benefits cover indignant patients, and even those without prior arrangements will receive treatment at a public hospital. We don't have a capitalistic healthcare system in the purest sense of the word, because that would violate the public sense of humanity.

Your sister and others are directly benefitting from American tax dollars (said research may or may not be able to help her directly, but it almost certainly will prove useful to others), despite the fact that she is not even an American citizen.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123280 - 06/24/06 10:11 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Public hospital? Public doctors don't go anywhere neer her. Her GP is a specialist.

It is research being done in America, by an American doctor for American citizens. I fail to see how her being chosen for a research program goes against my argument. The money is going towards research, not into treating people.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123281 - 06/24/06 10:33 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
A public hospital, in American terminology, is any hospital owned and operated by the government. This is contrasted with private practitioners and private hospitals.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123282 - 06/24/06 10:44 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Noel Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1220
Loc: Amerika
Quote:

Also, Canada is not at war and we don't have a need to better equipt our troops.




I don't mean to split hairs, but your country is at war. Canada has about 2,300 troops stationed in Afghanistan, which is technically a war zone.

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#123283 - 06/24/06 11:25 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
S_Magazine Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 197
It is research being done in America, by an American doctor for American citizens.

So, then, why is your non-American sister taking part in American research?

I fail to see how her being chosen for a research program goes against my argument.

You pretty much just said that the research is being done by Americans for the benefit of American citizens, yet your sister isn't an American and is benefiting from a program her and your tax dollars don't help fund.

The money is going towards research, not into treating people.

And what is the goal of the research? To treat people.

Your sister may only be a guinea pig for the researchers but they're still treating her for whatever condition she has.
_________________________
S Magazine Issues 1 & 2
S MAgazine Issue 3

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#123284 - 06/24/06 11:27 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
S_Magazine Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 197
Psychic vampirism by any other name...
_________________________
S Magazine Issues 1 & 2
S MAgazine Issue 3

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#123285 - 06/24/06 11:34 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
One could also argue that with responsible use of the Healthcare system, user fees and the elimination of idiotic "free" services such as drug rehab, injection clinics, stomach staples and emotional counseling there would be more money to save those close to you who actually require help.

The problem is that we have raised a generation of maggots who actually think that the system is free. You comments have demonstrated this warped way of thinking. Thanks to the socialization of our Universities, people are now demanding MORE “free” services.

Irresponsible behavior such as bad diet, alcoholism, smocking and drug use are not seen as personal choices with consequences that one must accept but as diseases that for some reason the rest of us are required to fix.

Socialized Healthcare only fosters irresponsible self indulgence and a lack or personal responsibility for one's actions. I have actually heard people say such things as "I can eat, shoot, snort, fuck and smoke whatever I want, and the government will pay for it."

And in as far as equipping our soldiers and police officers, more Canadian troops have died in Afghanistan from faulty equipment, obsolete vehicles and poor training than from enemy fire. A submariner died from smoke inhalation two years ago aboard a Canadian vessel that was bought from a mothballed fleet of cheap, British submarines for a fraction of their already diminished value.

As far as security goes, it is a well-known fact that terrorists use the lax security and socially permissive atmosphere in Canada to funnel funds, weapons and explosives to cell sin the US. More cases of SARS were spread throughout Canada's largest city four years ago because the government was either too impotent, too cash-strapped or too ill-equipped to actually quarantine infected people.

But hey, what are the lives of a few dead soldiers and the wide-spread infection of a major urban centre and a security service that is an international cocktail party joke when we have more important matters to tackle such as toplessness, giving pedophilic murderers a free education, free job training and, you guessed it, free Healthcare.

I know that your comments reflect the modern “Education” system but once you start actually paying taxes you might see things a little differently.

Trust me, nothing in life is free.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123286 - 06/24/06 11:37 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

And again, almost all employers supply medical insurance.




At an ever rising cost that not all workers can afford. Especially if you have to insure an entire family.

Quote:

Said people, as US citizens, would either have medical insurance or be receiving government benefits.



Not entirely true. Many people who work, or are self employed have no health insurance and no way to receive it from the government. It is a state to state benefit, and most states, if not all, do make sure children are covered. Adults, however, are pretty much on their own unless they can prove disability. I am a contractual employee, I am not offered health insurance and I am not eligible to get it as a government bene.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#123287 - 06/24/06 11:37 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: S_Magazine]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Quote:

Psychic vampirism by any other name...


... will still smeel like shit!
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123288 - 06/24/06 11:39 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: luciferHammer]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Very true, while many young girls masquerading as modern women and armies overweight feminists think that walking around topless is a sign of empowerment I see it as an unspeakably rude gesture.

What makes them think that I want to see their titties? Going to a designated beach where one knows that to find is one thing but strutting around the downtown core is just arrogant, crude and inconsiderate. Yet further evidence of what our socialist education system had produced; this attitude that one is so important and beautiful the entire world just has to see your bazoons. Trust me, we don’t. If I want to see some titties I will simply wait a few hours until my girlfriend comes over or I will surf the Net. Not to sound like a prude but common courtesy and manners need to make a comeback, and fast.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123289 - 06/25/06 12:05 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
Quote:

Should a nation declare itself Satanic (not the most reasonable
occurance due to the existence of the herds...),
How will it conduct itself?
What laws will change?

What do you think a satanic nation should be like?





We have and will always be a Satanic nation. Think about it for a moment. The herd keep things in balance. I hear so much about what's wrong with the world. The never-ending story. Are you doing your part? Dig too deep and you'll go crazy. Live your own life, don't dwell on the herd to much, they have been and will always be insane. Live your life here and now(your way on your own) never mind the people. Look after your self and you will help build the Satanic Nation!
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#123290 - 06/25/06 12:31 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Adversary Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 131
Loc: El Paso, TX
Quote:

Very true, while many young girls masquerading as modern women and armies overweight feminists think that walking around topless is a sign of empowerment I see it as an unspeakably rude gesture.

What makes them think that I want to see their titties? Going to a designated beach where one knows that to find is one thing but strutting around the downtown core is just arrogant, crude and inconsiderate. Yet further evidence of what our socialist education system had produced; this attitude that one is so important and beautiful the entire world just has to see your bazoons. Trust me, we don’t. If I want to see some titties I will simply wait a few hours until my girlfriend comes over or I will surf the Net. Not to sound like a prude but common courtesy and manners need to make a comeback, and fast.




This reminds me of a passage from the Satanic Bible, in "Satanic Sex" from the book of Lucifer, page 66, starting from the very last line in that page.

Sorry I don't feel like typing it.
_________________________
"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him." - Sun Tzu "Morality is a human invention conferred by the self-serving interests of the sensually impoverished" - Anton Szandor LaVey

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#123291 - 06/25/06 12:34 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: dragondancer]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Not to presume to tell you how things are, but there are free or very, very low priced clinics for most basic health needs (especially for children), there very well may be some government program at least for the children, and the real point I was driving at, is that if you happen to get maimed or extremely sick, the hospital will not turn you away. You will get treatment if it is necessary to your health. It won't be good for your credit history perhaps unless you find an organization to defray costs or set up credit, but you won't die on the sidewalk because you couldn't get treatment.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123292 - 06/25/06 04:15 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

is just arrogant, crude and inconsiderate




... and quite tasteless and uncivilized. Do they really want to make a come back to the prehistoric age??

Quote:

while many young girls masquerading as modern women and armies overweight feminists think that walking around topless is a sign of empowerment




What kind of power do they expect?? The body of a woman is a much more powerful public weapon when all those attractive parts are hidden, only revealed in part or totally, for a glimpse, to the eye of the victim.

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#123293 - 06/25/06 07:51 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Good arguments.

I am actually in favor of socialist healthcare in theory, and I've never lived long enough in any country that practices it to really see how it works in reality. (I reason that a healthier, more well-educated populace will generally be less prone to lawlessness and other general acts of stupidity, ignorance, and desperation.) Obviously, the theory looks better than the real application.

I think you're absolutely right that if you give someone an inch, they'll demand a mile, and will come to think that more things ought to be free for them. So, inevitably, you get more and more people who abuse the system.

Now, if it were me, I'd put blocks in place that would restrict free medical treatment to those who had clearly and obviously brought their condition upon themselves, but Canada, I know, would consider such gestures far too "mean."

Can't really help you with the bazonga issue, though. I'd guess they still see it as enough of a taboo that they enjoy breaking it, like naughty children. Or, maybe they really have it in their heads that this is what's required for "liberation." Or, maybe they think it's a mating dance of sorts. Either way, if they're convinced of these things, then they'll be determined to walk around topless.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#123294 - 06/25/06 09:29 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: luciferHammer]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
What kind of power do they expect?? The body of a woman is a much more powerful public weapon when all those attractive parts are hidden, only revealed in part or totally, for a glimpse, to the eye of the victim.




Aty least some people get it, you know that hwole Law of the Forbidden thing..
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123295 - 06/25/06 10:05 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

Not to presume to tell you how things are, but there are free or very, very low priced clinics for most basic health needs (especially for children), there very well may be some government program at least for the children, and the real point I was driving at, is that if you happen to get maimed or extremely sick, the hospital will not turn you away. You will get treatment if it is necessary to your health. It won't be good for your credit history perhaps unless you find an organization to defray costs or set up credit, but you won't die on the sidewalk because you couldn't get treatment.




Oh, I would agree that if you go to a public hospital with a life threatening problem you will get treated in some manner. I wouldn't dispute that at all.

I also did say that the government does give health insurance to children, in most if not all states.

Quote:

Not entirely true. Many people who work, or are self employed have no health insurance and no way to receive it from the government. It is a state to state benefit, and most states, if not all, do make sure children are covered. Adults, however, are pretty much on their own unless they can prove disability. I am a contractual employee, I am not offered health insurance and I am not eligible to get it as a government bene.




I was simply pointing out that there are many able bodied adults that have no access to health insurance and are not eligible to get help from government programs. And you are correct there are some low cost, possibly free clinics availalbe, but trust me, you don't want to go there if you can help it. Your main point stands correct, if you are desperate for medical care you can get it. Quality of care is another issue altogether.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#123296 - 06/25/06 12:16 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

Aty least some people get it, you know that hwole Law of the Forbidden thing..




... quite well explained in a book called The Satanic Witch. I wonder who wrote it.

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#123297 - 06/25/06 03:45 PM Topless [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Chess Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
I'm not going to get involved in the Great Healthcare Slugfest, but I do want to throw my hat into the ring on the toplessness issue.

Quote:

Very true, while many young girls masquerading as modern women and armies overweight feminists think that walking around topless is a sign of empowerment I see it as an unspeakably rude gesture.




It depends on the situation, of course, but for everyday public interactions, I agree with you. I also think it's just as rude for a man to go shirtless in those same public situations. If you're walking around the grocery store, you expect everyone to be at least mostly dressed, after all, and the sight of a big fat guy with no shirt on is likely to be jarring -- it violates a social expectation.

But, that said, I see no reason the government needs to be involved in the matter. There are plenty of ways to commit a faux pas and come across as an uncultured boor, but very few of them are illegal. I say, if a woman wants to make some sort of "statement" by strutting around topless, or even completely naked, let her. If she's misjudged its appropriateness for the situation, she'll pay for it in other ways.

Let people wear or not wear what they please; there's no need to enforce "decency". Some idiots will abuse the privilege and make asses of themselves, certainly, but how is that different from any other freedom? On the other hand, Tovasshi seems an intelligent lady and I'm confident she can easily judge when it's appropriate. Topless at the beach? Perfectly fine. Topless walking down Main Street? Not so much. But the important point here is that if she chose to go down the street, she could -- the Canadian goverment is laid-back enough that they're not going to arrest her for harmless inappropriateness.

Now, this is a long way from being the most pressing issue facing the world, but in this case I say, score one for Canada.

-Chess

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#123298 - 06/25/06 04:01 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Nidhogg Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 344
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

I get free healthcare

AND

I get to walk around in public topless.

Just to name a few...




not in Alberta.
_________________________
fka Thyrn

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#123299 - 06/25/06 05:47 PM Re: A Satanic notion. [Re: pitzi_83]
chimera Offline


Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 94
Loc: Sacramento, CA U.S.A.
It might be a Meritocracy.!!!! Or a Confederation. All getting together as a group of idividualists. The American Constitution says the Individual comes First, the Federal Gov't SHOULD come a distant last. Gosh how times have changed.
_________________________
"Snarfl, Snarfl, Piffig"

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#123300 - 06/25/06 06:24 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: dragondancer]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Quality of care is another issue altogether.

I've heard the same thing about Canadian hospitals.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123301 - 06/25/06 06:44 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: WinterGoat]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I wouldn't recommend it, unless you really like a lot of cold rain.




Actually, I'd love that.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123302 - 06/25/06 10:41 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
Just because I like the way most things are as is, doesn't mean I am not educated. I pay taxes, real taxes. I do work for a living on a military base. I put myself through school. Just because I am not miserable, doesn't mean I am not educated. Just because I don’t see things your way, doesn’t mean I am stupid or misguided. Just because it is a “well known fact” that blah blah blah, doesn’t mean I have to agree with that opinion.

I didn't say everything was perfect. I didn’t mention the military in the first place. I didn't even mention the prison system. All I mentioned was how I liked my healthcare, a few extra rights and the culture. I said this country is what I currently want. So why did it turn into everyone trying to prove something? Why was the fact that I said I was planning on moving when I get older ignored?

Why has so many tried to tell me that States has the same things as Canada in certain places? I am well aware they do. But every situation is deferent. My post was on my personal feelings on how my situation is. That is why I have emphasized the *I* as in me. So you don’t like Canada, fine, why are you still in it? Things don’t work for you, so what? They work for me. My situation is a rare one, and I am happy. We are all individuals here, we don’t all have the same lifestyle or have grown up in the same environment. Sure it would have been nice to live in a 5 bedroom house down in California with my dad making well over 100k American each year. Too bad, for us, we were denied all health insurance of every form so he didn’t take the job. You could argue that some people are abusing the system, but I am not one of them. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I buckle up every time I get into the car. Everyone in my family is the same way, and we all have serious (genetic) medical problems.

Yes, I go topless once in a while. That doesn’t mean I am starved for attention or have an ego deficit. It means I like having an even tan and I hate tanning beds.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123303 - 06/28/06 04:13 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
We are not talking about opinion here. we are talking about fact. You are welcome to your opinions, however long they last. But you were previously talking about facts and they were just plain wrong. The fact s that our current military is in fact at war in Afghanistan. The fact is that our military does not meet our security needs. Our military is out of shape, badly trained and lacking in modern, functional equipment. Our cities are not safe and our borders are most assuredly not secure.

These are facts and they are indisputable.

A nation is judged by its ability to defend itself and maintain its sovereignty. Canada's military is an international joke.

This is largely the fault of socialist, women, PC university types, professional activists and other proponents of small-issue causes and low-politics such as feminism, toplessness, pot laws and gay marriage.
These issues should not even be issues because they are moral concerns and therefore, not the government's affair.

They would not be issues if the government was expected to involve itself in the personal affairs of its citizens to a much lesser degree. But since socialists, students, activists and altruistic, slef-righteous "do-gooders"
make these issues of a high importance and demand that the government waste time and resources on them and raising taxes so that everything is "free"
and everybody feels nice, high priority concerns such as national security, crime, emergency preparedness and maintaining sovereignty fall by the wayside.

The paradigm of the modern nation state was clearly outlined in the Treaty of Westphailia. The nations of the Western World have followed that model, that is until people thought that smoking a spliff and flashing their lady berries were somehow...important.

And that is a sad, sad fact.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123304 - 06/28/06 04:18 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
sCara Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1223
Reminds me of a conversation we had not long ago..

"Their hearts are in the right place, but they are bleeding profusely.."

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#123305 - 06/28/06 04:50 PM Canadian views on the military [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

This is largely the fault of socialist, women, PC university types, professional activists and other proponents of small-issue causes and low-politics such as feminism, toplessness, pot laws and gay marriage.




In my experience, it's not just this narrow class of people who are responsible for what's going on with the military. People, especially urban and suburban Southern Ontario kids (of both genders), have anti-military biases before they enroll in university.

I was a teaching assistant for two first-year courses this past year: "Intro. to the study of Peace", and "Intro. to the study of War". They were both delivered by our school's "Peace Studies" department. The professor was a woman, a socialist, feminist, and a UN activist -- also, a Baha'i. In spite of the fact that this prof has just about all the criteria to make you pull your hair out, she was open to being corrected when it came to anything to do with the military. Much of her time was spent trying to clarify confusions or dispell myths that the students already had coming into the classroom.

I had three students who were in the forces in some capacity. One guy was in the Reserves. One young woman was in the Infantry. And one guy, about my age, was a US Marine sniper who had served in Afghanistan and in Iraq. We also had several students from the Middle East and from the former Yugoslavia.

The prof gave them all a chance to speak in front of the class, and many did (including the sniper). She also invited them to correct her if something she said conflicted with their experience, and they did. I also gave a presentation on just war theory, which was well-received.

In short, this socialist feminist PC university type went out of her way to make sure that the students had broad exposure to views and information about the military and about war. She made her feelings clear, but made them clear that they were her feelings. If anyone came out of that class with stupid, naive, superficial or muddled views about the military, it was in spite of her efforts, not because of them. One of the major themes of the course is that "military" can mean a lot of things, some good, some bad.

Are there narrow-minded anti-military academics of the kind you describe? Sure. I haven't met a whole lot of them, though. On the basis of my experience in academia, I suspect they're in the minority. The fact is, kids already have these attitudes before they sit down in the classroom.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123306 - 06/28/06 05:42 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
Quote:

The fact s that our current military is in fact at war in Afghanistan.




No, Colonel, they aren't at war. They're "keeping the peace."
_________________________
Empty heads babble the most.

The good die young... because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good.
John Barrymore

HARDCOVER INFERNALIA

PAPERBACK INFERNALIA

HARDCOVER KASIDAH

PAPERBACK KASIDAH

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#123307 - 06/28/06 05:52 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: MagisterRose]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
With due respect to both of you, it's neither a "war" nor a "peacekeeping mission", but officially "conducting military operations" (namely Operations APOLLO, Athena, and Archer).

Peacekeeping missions are authorized and organized by the UN for specific purposes.

EDIT: Correction: "War" is a fair thing to call it, although it has an official legal meaning that isn't necessarily satisfied by our ops in Afghanistan. I just wanted to point out that "peacekeeping" is not just a wishy-washy euphemism for war, but the name of a specific kind of military operation. No Canadian official has ever claimed that what we're doing in Afghanistan is a peacekeeping mission.


Edited by reprobate (06/28/06 06:26 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#123308 - 06/28/06 06:30 PM Re: Canadian views on the military [Re: reprobate]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
She was a good teacher and accomplished what the course was developed for.

I wish I could have attended that class. It sounded like it was very productive and informative.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123309 - 06/28/06 06:31 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: MagisterRose]
Achilles Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 223
Hey, I salute them for keeping the muslim/terrorist population in check.
_________________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

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#123310 - 06/28/06 06:48 PM Re: Canadian views on the military [Re: Discipline]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
It was quite an experience!

I knew, going in, that parts of it were going to be pretty flaky. I wanted the exposure to an interdisciplinary study (we would cover politics, history, a little bit of law, psych, anthro/soc, and of course philosophy).

I was pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn't all flaky. In fact, I learned quite a lot about post-Cold War politics that political philosophy just doesn't know about.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123311 - 06/28/06 07:28 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
You missed the point of my post.

This is not a political debate, save that for your members' section.

You have your own needs, I have mine.

This country currently meets all my wants and needs. That was my post. My health and the health of my loved ones are more important than your political views.

And no, Canada is not at war in Afghanistan. My dad sat in that hole for six months and the most action he experienced was watching a dead mule pop from bloating in the sun for three days. Canada's military is trained and in shape, I watch what these guys go through. You have to understant that Canada;s military is only a joke because we have this HUGE land and very little population. We only have 86,000 personnel. While the US has over 1.4 million personnel. British personnel is over four times that of Canada.

It is kinda dumb to blame our military's strength and lack of new toys on the government and free whatnots, when we don't even have enough people to man new toys. Even if we have all the nice subs and tanks. Who is going to man them? You are comparing our military to larger countries with a lot more people. In order for us to have a military as strong as the US, about 6% of our total population would have to be in the military.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123312 - 06/28/06 07:30 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: MagisterRose]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Oh...sorry! What was I thinking. War is such a violent word with all of those connotations and bad, insensitive feelings. I need a hug...
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123313 - 06/28/06 07:38 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Preemptive Strike - Sneak Attack
Prisoners of War - Unlawful Combatants
Attack - Insertion
Killed - Lost Their Lives
At War - Conducting Military Operations
Combat - Operations
Shell Shock - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

This is what sells war to those who claim to be pacifists. It is also what apparently keeps university professors employed.

Squabbling over semantics and playing with euphemisms doesn't change a thing. We are losing soldiers to fire fights, combat, land mines and bullets.

Tag whatever name or socially correct buzz word you wish. All it does is make socialists and mothers' groups nod.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123314 - 06/28/06 07:40 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
That depends on where your father was posted. If nothing is happening, tell that to the soldiers who are coming back in bags.

And sure, Canada meets your needs. That's the point. Canada is now a nation that predominantly caters to the needy at the expense of those who produce.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123315 - 06/28/06 07:44 PM Re: Canadian views on the military [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Quote:

In my experience, it's not just this narrow class of people who are responsible for what's going on with the military. People, especially urban and suburban Southern Ontario kids (of both genders), have anti-military biases before they enroll in university.





Exactly, they do not have to wait to get to university anymore, since elementary schools are nothing but training grounds for the NDP where knowledge is less important than feelings.

I am hardly suprised.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123316 - 06/28/06 07:51 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
The different terms weren't invented by socialists or mothers' groups. They were invented by legislators, executives, jurists, diplomats and commanders in order to distinguish different kinds of operations that have different objectives and different rules of engagement.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123317 - 06/28/06 07:57 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

A nation is judged by its ability to defend itself and maintain its sovereignty. Canada's military is an international joke.

This is largely the fault of socialist, women, PC university types, professional activists and other proponents of small-issue causes and low-politics such as feminism, toplessness, pot laws and gay marriage.
These issues should not even be issues because they are moral concerns and therefore, not the government's affair.

They would not be issues if the government was expected to involve itself in the personal affairs of its citizens to a much lesser degree. But since socialists, students, activists and altruistic, slef-righteous "do-gooders"
make these issues of a high importance and demand that the government waste time and resources on them and raising taxes so that everything is "free"
and everybody feels nice, high priority concerns such as national security, crime, emergency preparedness and maintaining sovereignty fall by the wayside.




In reading this a thought occurs to me. It may be completely unfounded, and I admit I have not done any research on it, but I am wondering how much of an impact all those Vietnam War defectors who ran to Canada from the US in the 60's and 70's have had on your population and your government. They would be of the age now to be active in government, or at least vocal about those issues you have brought up.

These people would be the older generation now and I am thinking that they would be, at this point, the new agers, the tinker bell, love everybody, etc. etc. types. In short exactly like you described in your post. They would not have run to your country unless they were the ones against the Vietnam War to begin with. They were pot smoking, bell wearing, pacifist hippies, for the most part.

Maybe they all came back here and clog up our government now, I don't know. It was just a thought I had.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#123318 - 06/28/06 07:59 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: dragondancer]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I can't say one way or the other, but if it were true, it wouldn't be the first time American refugees screwed up our country. The only reason Ontario exists at all, is thanks to conservative Loyalists fleeing the Revolution.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123319 - 06/28/06 08:02 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Quote:

The different terms weren't invented by socialists or mothers' groups. They were invented by legislators, executives, jurists, diplomats and commanders in order to distinguish different kinds of operations that have different objectives and different rules of engagement.




And it is these people who rely on being elected by the groups that I mentioned...another fact that proves the flaws of democracy.

If anyone wishes to be elected, they must lower themselves to the level of the mob and feed them this plastic language in order ot survive. After all, aren't they they "voice of the people"?

Canada and the USA were not founded as democracies but as Republics; nations in which the mob elected their intellectual betters to manage their affairs not to pander to the whims of the herd.

These terms are just euphamisms that make people feel more secure.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123320 - 06/28/06 08:03 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

I can't say one way or the other, but if it were true, it wouldn't be the first time American refugees screwed up our country. The only reason Ontario exists at all, is thanks to conservative Loyalists fleeing the Revolution.




Ah, the joys of open borders and lax immigration laws. We know them well also.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#123321 - 06/28/06 08:06 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
If you say so. That's not my understanding of the history of these terms.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123322 - 06/28/06 08:09 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
I understand your frustration on the subject even though
I don't entirely agree. I too come from a socialist country,
with a much worse war and a much worse state of
economy.

If Canada NEEDED a better army, it would have one.
Canada's survival doesn't depend on it.

If it's Canada's security you are concerned with, Canada
should begin training intel-based squads. Muslim-Arabian
spys, urban warfare tactics. Cloaks and daggers is the name
of the game today. much more then tanks, multi-purpose jets
and vast gunships-carriers.

Unless you think that the U.S is about to annex Canada, there
is no need for a better army.

As for socialism... well... let's just say that spending the
money on industries, education and general gross production
is a far better idea.

For most countries.

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#123323 - 06/28/06 10:41 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>I can't say one way or the other, but if it were true, it wouldn't be the first time American refugees screwed up our country. The only reason Ontario exists at all, is thanks to conservative Loyalists fleeing the Revolution.

Yep, and we will keep on sending them.

If only the Born-Again types would flee too.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123324 - 06/28/06 11:18 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Hear, hear!

America is by no means free of fault; after all, the counter-culture started here. These petty politics are, as always, a paper tiger to distract from the real problems we face. They are a game for bored suburbanites who think they are making a difference in the world when they are just a subhuman blip on a radar that does not care.

The responsibility of a free state is to ensure that its people are free, and that is all. That state should take whatever steps necessary to ensure this, and waste no further time on issues that should not even be issues.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123325 - 06/29/06 03:51 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
This modern, "empowered" and "intellectual way of "thinking" is largely the fault of socialism and PC since they, more than any other ideology follow and promote the notion of human equality. And we have been paying for it ever since, both financially and physically.

These days everyone is equal, everyone is responsible for everyone else and everything is "free".

It begins largely in elementary school when children are mailable and extremely impressionable. Since the time they are able to crawl they are told that they are special, their opinions are no better than anyone else's and everyone is a winner. All school work is communal work. In fact some school snow have a cumulative grading system where all students receive the same grade based on the work they do as a community. Teacher's cannot discipline students, speak harshly to them or even fail them anymore because it will disrupt their "sensitivity boundaries" and lead to bad feelings. Physical education is no longer required since that involves competition, physical prowess and other non-communal activities. Better that everyone is lazy, weak and out of shape than have a few people excel at anything.

Anyone who disagrees is "mean and insensitive"

Children are conditioned to believe that they are entitled to everything
for little to no effort. Just look at the comments posted here; "It's
free", "my needs", "I'm entitled" etc.

Girls in particular receive this form of indoctrination. Thanks to this
myth of a global patriarchal conspiracy, feminism is now clamouring for its pound of flesh. Seems to me that feminists have more than enough flesh to spare. Girls are told that the can have it all. Any body is beautiful.
Any shape is fine and everyone HAS to see their boobies on a crowded street or they are just plain insensitive and sexist. Girls are raised to think that they are owed everything simply because they are female and nothing is beyond their abilities.

Wanna be a cop? No problem! You go girl! Can't pass the physical exam, don't worry we will change it for you so that you by lowering standards.
Afterall, everyone is equal.

And so the problem continues well into university at which point students are nothing more than spoiled babies who keep crying "I want my stuff" only now with multi-sylabic words and creative euphemisms. When you get right down to it all they are saying is "I want things! Give me things!"

Anyone who disagrees is "uneducated".

This is no small reason why issues of low politics such as toplessness's, gender issues and PC now clog public debate and waste the government's valuable time. Taxes are higher than ever because after two generations of this idiocy, everyone screams for their entitlements and "free" stuff.

If these leeches are ever asked to pay taxes...(most students don't) give back or contribute to their community in any way, they clear cut thousands of acres of forest to make protest signs and bitch like the spoiled
children that they are. The very thought of having to pay for healthcare,
even a little or having to pay back a student loan is unthinkable.

No way baby! Everything is free because I am special, Barney the Dinosaur and Oprah told me so.

So really I am not surprised to see this sort of thing pop up on this board...by many people indeed.

At least I have "downstairs".
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123326 - 06/29/06 03:52 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
True, Canada does not require a large military. We would only require one
if in fact we were as you say annexed by the US. were it any other
nation, the US would provide security for us.

Canada exists largely in part to the safety and tacit protection provided by the United States. Therefore Canada must do its part to prevent the spread of terrorism within Canada and within the USA. Our borders are so expansive that security is both of our concerns. Our economies are so intertwined that what affects the US affects Canada as well.

Like it or not, US security is Canadian security. Terrorists know this and make use of Canada's blind multicultural bullshit and underfunded security agencies to waltz in here, set up sleeper cells and skip on down to the US to launch an attack.

The Canadian/US border is more porous than the US/Mexican border but in our case it is porous by choice. Muslims and Arabs are not questioned by border security out of fear that they will throw an embarrassing hissy-fit and launch a lawsuit.

Terrorists make use of Canada's lax security and underfunded agencies like CSIS, the RCMP and the Canadian Forces to slip into the US from Canadian soil. So really we are not talking about numbers here (well actually we
are) but money, plain and simple. We simply do not spend enough time, money and resources on these high-risk areas but rather squabble about decency laws, smoking weed and fairness campaigns.

Again, since the government is elected by the masses who demand that everything under the sun be free, problems that can actually harm them go unattended.

Oh well, maybe a good flu epidemic is what we need. Maybe a large-scale terrorist attack too. At least the unprepared, weak, stupid and childish will be summarily eliminated from the planet.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123327 - 06/29/06 03:53 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Just what taxes do you pay? As a student your tuition, residence fees and books are deductible. Your bus pass, travel fees, credit cards and other services are given at a reduced cost. Since you do not work full time, you qualify for an income tax refund at the end of the year, unless you have a very bad accountant. At this stage in the game you only pay taxes on a pack of gum. enjoy the "free" stuff while it lasts.

Really the only thing that students are required to pay are often loans such as OSAP and even that is seen as inconvenient.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123328 - 06/29/06 03:54 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: luciferHammer]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
The post 60s generation is without a doubt the laziest, most spoiled and uneducated in history. At modern universities, one can major in such useless subjects as "Life Studies", "Community Work", "Post-World War Lesbian Literature", "Gender Studies" "Sociology of pre-teens", and "Womyn's Issues". That is not to be confused with "Womban's Issues" or "Wimmins Issues".

I remember when Math, Biology, Geography and World History, whoops, sorry Herstory were required reading. We also owned hunting rifles, played outside, took gym class and ate red meat for dinner!

This generation has never been tested or asked to sacrifice anything. They have never known a War, never had to ration food, put on a uniform, serve in a combat zone, conserve fuel, save tin, buy war bonds stop shopping, experience an economic depression or face significant political upheaval.
The closest thing to controversy they have faced is picking sides in the Janet Jackson Nipple Wardrobe Malfunction or whether or not consentual sex counts as rape.

They have come to believe that everything is theirs for the taking; Music is free, software is Freeware, healthacre is free etc. Their socialist politics are akin to a belligerent eight year old throwing a tantwum. They bash the US and its foreign policy but live under the shield of US military superiority. They sleep under the blanket of protection provided by the US and then spit on those who provide it.

It is like inviting the socialist, poli-sci major to your house for dinner.
They arrive late and insist on sitting at the head of the table. They eat all of your food, drink all of your booze, embarrass you and your guests, insult your beliefs and act indignant when you never invite them back again.

Spoiled, ignorant, self-absorbed ingrates. A burr on Satan's backside!
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123329 - 06/29/06 03:56 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Wanna be a cop? No problem! You go girl! Can't pass the physical exam, don't worry we will change it for you so that you by lowering standards.
Afterall, everyone is equal.




I'd like to see you tell that to my female student who was in the infantry!
_________________________
reprobate

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#123330 - 06/29/06 04:17 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Now how many times have I heard THAT knee-jerk, idiotic response? Every time I bring this subject up, somebody pulls out that “Oh I know a chick who can beat up men” line that is more tired than a Taco Bell jingle.

I always respond with this one: What’s your point?

Nice try but it doesn't change a thing.

I am sure that your student is quite impressive. I was in the military and yes we had ONE female who easily passed the male physical test….ONE being the operative word.

I have two female students in my SAMBO class who can swing their weight with the rest of us. But they are the exception to the rule. The Linda “Terminator Two” Hamilton female warrior type does exist but it is far from being commonplace and certainly does not constitute the bulk of the Canadian Forces.

Your comment, insightful as I assume you thought it was, does not change the fact that the physical standards for women in both the Canadian military and the police forces have in fact been lowered to accommodate females and to make these organizations more "socially reflective".

If male and female physical attributes and abilities were in fact equal there would be no need to lower the requirements now would there?
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123331 - 06/29/06 04:24 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

Wanna be a cop? No problem! You go girl! Can't pass the physical exam, don't worry we will change it for you so that you by lowering standards.
Afterall, everyone is equal.





In my police academy one of my fellow students, a female, failed the first three firearms training sessions because she didn't have enough finger strength to pull the trigger on her department issued weapon (this is still hard for me to believe). The instructors were not allowed to drop her from the academy. Her department eventually changed their policy on weapons to include a lesser (and dangerous, in my opinion) trigger pull.

This, in itself, would not have angered me as much had 10 male students not been dropped from the academy for failing their re-test on the driving pad.

Why were these students not allowed to retake the driving test multiple times? Why was the criteria for passing not changed for them? Why did their departments not change their policy on which vehicles would be allowed for patrol use?

No answers were given. None were needed...
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#123332 - 06/29/06 04:28 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
I have to agree with the Colonel on this one. Truly, there are women whose athletic prowess is considerable; I went to high school with a girl who was 6'3", the star basketball center for the girls' team, was able to bench press more than a lot of the male players, and was actually still quite beautiful in a Valkyrie way, but not only are they unusual, but they do not negate the point that standards should not be lowered to accomodate women, only reinforce it because they prove that some women really can do these things.

I can, for example, understand removing the height requirement for police officers (that requirement was long ago removed), but the physical fitness standards should be the same (in many departments they actually are). The military should likewise have the exact same fitness requirements. Compromising the ability to do a job in order to accomodate those who should not be doing it is nonsensical.

I'd favor a somewhat Heinleinian view: all persons have the exact same requirements expected of them in all things, all persons have the exact same opportunities if they meet those requirements. No more, no less. If a woman really can be top-notch front line infantry, then I say let her. If she cannot, then don't drop the bar so she can pretend.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123333 - 06/29/06 04:31 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Minus]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
What? That's quite absurd even by modern standards.

Just how damn light did the trigger pull have to be? Glocks are commonly issued with a five pound trigger pull. If someone can't muster that trigger, they probably can't take the recoil either, and certainly can't be expected to be able to use nonlethal force in an effective manner. This is a great disservice to the integrity of criminal justice.

I not only think that it is right to have physical fitness requirements for officers, but indeed ethically responsible that all officers maintain their fitness to be able to most effectively deal with threats in the least dangerous manner possible.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123334 - 06/29/06 04:31 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I hate to say it but you are correct. Here in the US it is the same. Women are simply not equipped to do the same physical activities that men are. And those who can are indeed rare. Physical standards have been lowered for most jobs that require a certain amount of strength, especially upper body. Not just for woman however, after all, has anyone looked at the people who work for the police or fire departments, and the military lately. There use to be a standard that cadets had to meet in height, weight, physical and mental abilities and this was carried through the lifetime of their job/career. Now days, the standards have been pushed aside due to the fact that far fewer people can live up to them, and the employers and the government are afraid that they will be sued.

Just my two cents worth.

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#123335 - 06/29/06 04:40 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
At the time, her department was issuing S&W 5906's. If you are familiar with the model, you will know the first round fired takes a double-action trigger pull and the rest pull with a lighter single-action. She was quite capable pulling the trigger when in single-action mode. Unfortunately, in order to get to that single-action pull, you must fire a round and in police work the first round is the most important. Right now, somewhere in America, she is another officer's backup. Sad...
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#123336 - 06/29/06 04:43 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Minus]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
WoW! And I thought this was just a Northern thing...
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123337 - 06/29/06 04:46 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Quote:

Just my two cents worth.




And it is worth more than ten university degrees since it is grounded in fact and truth.

HS!!!
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123338 - 06/29/06 04:46 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
It wasn't a remark about her physical prowess. It was a point about what actually happens in institutions that accept women for physically demanding tasks. She brought it up in class; there's a common myth, she said, that women in the military are subject to different, more relaxed standards of capability than men are. But, she said, it's a myth. So I think your "fact" isn't a fact.

As for the police, fire dept., etc., I don't know. Her remark is enough to make me suspicious of sweeping statements like the one you offered. But if you have first-hand knowledge of their training, and concrete experience with the different levels of ability between the respective genders in these professions, I'll defer.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123339 - 06/29/06 04:54 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
This is also true. While America seemingly has no problem with simply employing our massive military power in protection of the entire Western hemisphere, with Canada we have a unique symbiotic relationship. There is some US concern that Canada's inability or unwillingness to provide adequate border security poses a risk to the entire continent, as Canada is something of a backdoor into North America.

Were Canada's nonAmerican borders secure, i.e. entry into the country from abroad made difficult and scrutinized, then an open US/Canada border would pose little threat as we could be equally secure in both our borders and therefore simply share the one border without problem.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123340 - 06/29/06 04:57 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

She brought it up in class; there's a common myth, she said, that women in the military are subject to different, more relaxed standards of capability than men are.




Having served 4 years in the U.S. Air Force, I can tell you we have seperate standards for males and females. There are different minimums put on push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, etc. The only physical standards that are the same for male and female are run times.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#123341 - 06/29/06 05:02 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Minus]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Fair enough. Thank you. She was speaking specifically of the Canadian infantry. Branches with double standards would give a bad name to women in other branches with consistent standards.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123342 - 06/29/06 05:03 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
It took the World trade center to get awareness from the U.S.
Maybe something similar will happen in Canada.
Or maybe, as you said, Canada will become a base of
terror cells for launching attacks on the U.S.

Either way, I don't really see Canada waking up any time
soon. Sounds like your herd is completely docile and
uninformed (assuming that you are accurate in your
descriptions...)

So carefree... fighting over the right to flash titties in public...
I envy you, and I don't envy you.

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#123343 - 06/29/06 05:05 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
We have not had any trouble so far in preventing terrorism up here. Just a couple of weeks ago we had a round of arrests in Toronto. So far we've been squarely on top of the situation before it becomes a situation. I see no reason to suppose this will change in the foreseeable future.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123344 - 06/29/06 05:42 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Linguascelesta]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
<<However, your structure of society is more satanic than ours in the things that it really champions.>>Linguascelesta

I would agree with you entirely. Democracy and capitalism are very satanic concepts and I feel very lucky to have born here.

My only problem is the fucked up stratification that's in place because of bogus values that are ensnared upon people that are truly elite.

Where I come from, people can be so spoiled that their goodguy badges make them look like satanic witches and warlocks. It's like Christian fascism without the Christianity.


Edited by Stev2 (06/29/06 06:14 PM)
_________________________

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#123345 - 06/29/06 06:39 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
The military usually lowers its standards for one reason, being undermanned.

In the Marines all the fat bodies seemed to fade away after being put on a working party for a month until their paper work has finished. It was sort of nice and I had no sympathy for their lack of self-maintenance.

However, in non combat units I saw a few fat bodies walking around with some hefty bars on their collars. Which just reenforced my distaste for non combat occupations (I do have a nasty ego).

Women in the Marines have a different physical fitness test they must pass. In my opinion it was not any lower than the males test, just reconfigured to better suit a female. However, males and females are tested separately and females are unable to join the combat arms.

As for equality and females being able to fight along the side of their male counterparts, I am against it. I am not against it because I am sexist or arrogant. I am against it because the productivity of the troops would be drastically lower and the type of black mail that would ensue would be absurd. Maybe it would work if our current society was more disciplined. It is unwise to stick females in the middle of a war zone surrounded by stressed out young men.

Romance inside a tank in a combat zone is not good for a mission's objective.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123346 - 06/29/06 08:20 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I work full time, thanks. 7:30 to 3:30 every day sometimes weekends. I pay rent. And I don’t get it all back when income tax comes around. You have a lot of misconceptions about students and my opinions on "free" healthcare.

How about a different perspective.
---
Imagine yourself, making around 50k a year, you also have a wife who stays at home to look after your, very young, daughter and is pregnant with another. You don’t drink, you don’t smoke and you save up your money as much as you can. You love your job and it gives you a lot of benefits, such as 30% off dental, 80% off medications and just for shits and giggles, you have health insurance covers (your premium is $10,000 a years plus $4,000 per extra family member). Imagine your daughter (two years old), whom you love more than anything in the world gets very sick, say a collapsed lung due to something very unknown to you at the time (turns out it was a mass of tumors).

Ambulance costs: Covered.
Emergency room cost: Covered.
Emergency open chest surgery on a baby, to remove tumors and save lung: Not covered: $15,000

Same year, your child trips and breaks her leg, doctor can’t fix it. Guess what, another surprise! She has a false joint in her leg, she’s going to get leg braces. Uh oh, her leg wont heal, guy who made her leg braces reports you to child services because he thinks you are abusing her. More test! Well lucky you, the doctors found out she has weak bones, you are not going to have to deal with social workers. However, she has to have surgery on her leg. Luckily the leg braces are covered, however the surgery isn’t. You fork over $5,000.

Now your wife has to go in for a c-section, this baby is perfectly healthy, never needs surgery, and she only has to go to the emerge a total of four times in her life. She gets one EEG and a CAT scan. Nothing serious, just friendly advice to not ingest certain items to avoid seizures and migraines. You are relieved. You spent a total of $500 on her by the time she reached 18. She now pays for her own medical.

You older daughter reaches the age of eight. She has had some test in the past years, mostly covered by your insurance. Had minor surgeries, such as her tonsils taken out, that was covered. She starts experiencing severe pain for no reason. Congratulations, your daughter has Cancer. She also has a rare condition that makes chemotherapy impossible. Your insurance doesn’t cover most of it. You’re now seriously in debt due to all the bank loans you took out to save your little girl. Your health premiums went up as well.

Oh yeah, and you yourself have developed a few health problems due to aging and consuming too much sodium each day or something.

So fast forward to her being 21, graduating from college (she had straight As all through highschool). You were curios as to how much your bright child “cost”. They send you the paper with the total amount of money every single procedure cost since she was an infant, up to the time you are now sitting in the audience watching her graduate. As she grabs her diploma and smiles at you and walks off the stage to hug you. You think to yourself.

“Yes, she is definitely worth 1.2 million* dollars.”

But its ok, you didn’t have any government support, no one’s taxes helped. You managed to be able to get a nice $700k debt (after of course your insurance company gave you the finger) before you decided to prostitute your wife and youngest child. You refused all charity and other help from anyone, just so you wont have to be one of those “needy” and “weak” people. You would have rather seen that money going in to support more military funding and the new energy program instead of your own daughter (who is a producer, not a consumer).

There, a different perspective. Now, how would you view our “free” healthcare after going through all that? How would you feel in that situation? Would you let your kid die? Would you send her to low quality hospitals to save money? Would you still hate the idea of free healthcare? Would you call your other daughter “needy” because she is glad her sister is alive?

I love my free healthcare, I couldn’t care less who else was being covered by it because I have my sister (except for of course people who need medical attention as the result of their own choices, such as sports injuries or people getting ran over by cars as the result of them not paying attention). And no, I am not one of those hippy -feminists-anti-military chuds who demands everything to be free. I am strongly against welfare and subsidized housing. So you can stop quoting “free” and then saying “stuff”. I only said I love my free healthcare, mainly because of loved ones.


Edited by tovasshi (06/29/06 08:22 PM)
_________________________
Hi.

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#123347 - 06/29/06 08:56 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"I love my free healthcare."
Once again, it is not FREE.
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#123348 - 06/29/06 09:09 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Magister_Lang]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I know it is not free. It is subsidized through our taxes. It is just commonly refered to as "free".
_________________________
Hi.

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#123349 - 06/29/06 09:25 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Minus]
S_Magazine Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 197
If you are familiar with the model, you will know the first round fired takes a double-action trigger pull and the rest pull with a lighter single-action.

I'm sure there are probably regulations written to cover this, but practicing cocking the hammer as the weapon is drawn seems like a logical solution to me.

Edit: Nevermind. I tried this with my Sig this morning and it's a bit more difficult than I thought.


Edited by Mitt_Camp (06/30/06 12:23 AM)
_________________________
S Magazine Issues 1 & 2
S MAgazine Issue 3

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#123350 - 06/29/06 09:25 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
They may be free for you, but somebody else is paying for them. - Anton Szandor LaVey, The Devil's Notebook
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123351 - 06/29/06 09:33 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
6kaiza6killa6 Offline


Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Lemuria
My granddad had an issue down here in australia when he tried to get a job at a certain place and they said they can't employ him, it's for the 'aboriginals' only and he said 'that's racist' and they said no it's not... the system down here trys to say ok if aboriginals want to be equal then we'll give them a wider variety of job prospects to do so...
_________________________
Ho Drakon Ho Megas!

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#123352 - 06/29/06 09:40 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
I pay taxes, therefore I pay for it. I will pay more taxes later on, therefore I will still be paying for it.

It is not "free" it is just called "free".

This isn't an item or welfare we are talking about. This is someone's life. Someone I love. Someone who contributes back. Someone who isn't a leech.

self preservation
_________________________
Hi.

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#123353 - 06/29/06 09:53 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Well put brother!
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123354 - 06/29/06 09:54 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: 6kaiza6killa6]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Oh don't worry...we have that here too.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123355 - 06/29/06 10:00 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
I do have knowledge of this fact. My club routinely trains both soldiers and cops in self defense and they routinely bitch about the double fitness standards.

I would not waste my time were it otherwise and the comments made on this board by actual military personnel and police officers (there have been at least four) seem to back up my comments. And honestly, I will take the word of an actual serviceman and cop over one from the cloistered halls of "higher learning" any day.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123356 - 06/29/06 10:07 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Then don't call it free...your comments will carry more weight.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123357 - 06/29/06 10:09 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
So you are saying that you honestly believe television? Those arrests were little more than a show parade to clean Canada’s stained slate. Launching a terrorist attack takes time, training and resources. 9/11 was years in the making and many of the terrorists used Canadian passports to travel, scout and otherwise skirt the tighter US security net.

And no we have not been on top of things. 9/11 had to happen before we woke up and gave opur best half-assed attempt to stop it. My contacts in the RCMP are livid at the current situation right now, specifically how little attention is paid to terror cells operatingg in Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa. And just so you know, the “cell” arrested in Brampton two weeks ago were little more than children aged 14-19 who blabbered to their friends about their plans…..hardly top drawer terrorists.

But hey, we are doing a good job…after all…I saw it on television.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123358 - 06/29/06 10:23 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

And honestly, I will take the word of an actual serviceman and cop over one from the cloistered halls of "higher learning" any day.




Likewise, I'd rather take the word of an actual servicewoman than some guy off the Internet, whatever "School of Hard Knocks" cred he claims for himself.

We both have to say, "I heard it from somebody else." So let's drop it.


Edited by reprobate (06/29/06 10:28 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#123359 - 06/29/06 10:31 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

What do you think a satanic nation should be like?




Now I have read all these posts : a terrible mess
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Has left the board.

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#123360 - 06/29/06 10:59 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: tovasshi]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
If you're taking out more than you're putting in, you're not paying for it. If you were paying for it, you'd be getting billed!

I don't understand why you seem to find this such an issue. I don't blame you or your relations for taking advantage of a system that is in place, even if I think it is a backwards ass system. If I was a Canadian citizens I certainly wouldn't refuse medical treatment for idealogical reasons. Regardless of that, emotional appeals do not hold sway over the fact that people in Canada daily receive health benefits that they do not earn. To earn it would mean you are billed for it. To bill someone else for it and put forth a pittance in tax dollars is not earning it.

I reckon that it is entirely likely that I pay a great deal more of my money out in taxes than you, yet I also realize that the bulk of American tax dollars are not paid by my income bracket but by higher income brackets. The same is almost certainly true of you, but in greater degree.

I find some amusement that while I am not a fan of Canada's politics, the ones most critical here are in fact Canadians!

Don't make idealogical arguments into personal arguments. They're only hurtful that way, and I doubt that's anyone's intent.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123361 - 06/30/06 08:32 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

If you're taking out more than you're putting in, you're not paying for it. If you were paying for it, you'd be getting billed!




With due respect, Warlock, that isn't entirely fair. Ms. tovasshi and her family might not be paying in the full price of the bill (let alone interest), but she is paying in tax for socialized health insurance. The whole point of insurance is that you pay less than the price of your loss.

The question is, then, whether they are paying as much, or less, or more, than the monetary value of the coverage they received, taking into account the statistical likelihood of her sister's condition. But right now, NO ONE can answer that question, because there is no market for that kind of coverage in Canada. That's the problem with socialized health coverage: with no buying or selling of coverage, there's no price information with which to calculate cost or benefit in treatments.

So it's pure speculation on the part of Ms. tovasshi to say that her family pays back the worth of what they took out. But it's equally pure speculation for anyone else to day that they don't. It's literally impossible to know.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123362 - 06/30/06 08:37 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Health insurance functions the same way, true; some pay in more than they take out, some pay in less; the insurance company balances it out and takes its cut.

The difference, of course, is that in standard health insurance you have the option of both whether to have it in the first place (meaning it is not enforced socialism), and which company you wish to do business with (creating a capitalistic market).

The other difference of course is that you actually have to pay insurance bills to maintain coverage. As I understand it, a Canadian citizen can still receive healthcare even if they are entirely unemployed and pay no taxes at all.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#123363 - 06/30/06 08:46 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

The other difference of course is that you actually have to pay insurance bills to maintain coverage. As I understand it, a Canadian citizen can still receive healthcare even if they are entirely unemployed and pay no taxes at all.




Yes. That's a problem. But Ms. tovasshi clearly doesn't fall into that category.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123364 - 06/30/06 09:15 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

We have not had any trouble so far in preventing terrorism up here. Just a couple of weeks ago we had a round of arrests in Toronto. So far we've been squarely on top of the situation before it becomes a situation. I see no reason to suppose this will change in the foreseeable future.




Congratulations, you win the obstinate academic space cadet of the year award.

-------------------------------------

Country Reports on Terrorism

2005 (pdf format)

U.S. law requires the Secretary of State to provide Congress, by April 30 of each year, a full and complete report on terrorism with regard to those countries and groups meeting criteria set forth in the legislation. This annual report is entitled Country Reports on Terrorism. Beginning with the report for 2004, it replaced the previously published Patterns of Global Terrorism.


http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/c17689.htm

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65473.pdf

Canada
The governments of the United States and Canada collaborated on a broad array of initiatives, exercises, and joint operations that spanned virtually all agencies and every level of government. At the political level, however, tensions over Iraq and U.S. actions against
Canadian citizen terror suspects threatened to disrupt valuable information sharing between the two nations. Terrorists have capitalized on liberal Canadian immigration and asylum policies to enjoy safe haven, raise funds, arrange logistical support, and plan terrorist attacks.
The domestic terror legislation Canada passed after September 11, 2001 was used for only one prosecution and will expire in 2006.

U.S.-Canadian counterterrorism cooperation rests on a number of established forums, including the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, the terrorism sub-group of the Cross Border Crime Forum, and the Smart Border Accord. The latter led to an agreement to expand the number of Integrated Border Enforcement Teams (IBETs) covering
the border to 15.

Of several exercises held to test the joint U.S.-Canadian response to terrorist attacks, TOPOFF (Top Officials) in April was the most ambitious. This exercise with Canada and the United Kingdom involved more than 8,000 personnel managing scenarios in three countries over five days. For Canada, it constituted a dry run of its recently formulated National Response Plan. Smaller exercises afforded local authorities the opportunity to practice their joint response to terror emergencies.

In Afghanistan, Canada assumed command of the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team and maintained several hundred troops under NATO command. Although Canada chose not
to join Operation Iraqi Freedom, it chaired the donors committee of the International Reconstruction Fund Facility for Iraq, pledged over U.S. $240 million for Iraqi
reconstruction, police training (through NATO), and elections, and led international monitoring of all three rounds of Iraqi elections. Canada also helped key countries address terrorism and terrorism financing with new counterterrorism capacity-building programs.

The principal threat to the close U.S.-Canadian cooperative relationship remains the fallout from the Arar case. U.S. authorities in 2002 detained dual nationality Canadian-Syrian terrorist suspect Maher Arar in New York and removed him to his native Syria. Arar claimed he was tortured in Syria, triggering a media outcry in Canada that prompted the Canadian Government to review and restrict information-sharing arrangements with the United States.

The two governments are working to develop a mechanism to accommodate Canadian concerns while resuming the free flow of counterterrorism information.

The Arar case underscores a greater concern for the United States: the presence in Canada of numerous suspected terrorists and terrorist supporters. Algerian-born Ahmed Ressam, the "millennium bomber" caught attempting to bring bomb-making materials into the United States, was denied asylum in Canada, yet remained in Montreal for seven years and used false identification to obtain a Canadian passport. Other known terrorists in Canada include:

• Mohammed Mahjoub, member of Vanguards of Conquest, a radical wing of Egyptian Islamic Jihad;
• Mahmud Jaballah, senior member of the Egyptian Islamic terrorist organization al-Jihad and al-Qaida;
• Hassan Al Merei, suspected al-Qaida member;
• Mohammed Harkat, suspected al-Qaida member; and
• Adil Charkaoui, suspected al-Qaida member.

Canada is also home to the Khadr terrorist family. Father Ahmed Said, a member of al-Qaida, was killed by Pakistani security forces in 2003. A son accused of killing a U.S. Army medic and wounding another soldier is being held in Guantanamo. Another son was detained by U.S. forces in Afghanistan and has since returned to Canada. The USG seeks the extradition of a third son for conspiring to kill Americans. A daughter is under investigation by Canadian
authorities for terror-related offenses.

Some 38 terrorist groups are officially banned in Canada, but not the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), possibly due to the political weight of the 200,000-strong Tamil community in Canada. The government prohibits known LTTE members from entering Canada, however.

In the wake of September 11, 2001, Canada passed an Antiterrorism Act subject to mandatory periodic reviews and annual reporting on preventive detention provisions. Canada has never used the latter, and has arrested only one person under the Act. The investigative hearing provisions of the Act have been used only once -- in the still unresolved Air India case. Nevertheless, critics of the legislation charge that it could be used to target ethnic groups and
seek its repeal.

The British Columbia Supreme Court found Sikh separatists Ripudaman Singh Malik and Ajaib Singh Bagri not guilty of bombing Toronto-origin Air India Flight 182 and killing 329
people. Outrage from families of the victims triggered a commission of inquiry, which is tasked to examine systemic issues related to Canada’s counterterrorism preparedness.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#123365 - 06/30/06 11:02 AM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Svengali]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
What's your point?

I didn't say there was no danger or that every outstanding case had been solved. I said that the police have so far been able to prevent any large-scale incidents of terrorism here, and there's no reason right now not to have continued confidence in them. It's wrong to represent our police as being so bound by irrational socialist agendas that they can't be counted on to protect us effectively. Nothing in these reports contradicts that.

That makes me a space cadet? Get real.

ps. Taking cheap and easy shots at my profession in the public forums is not appreciated.


Edited by reprobate (06/30/06 11:07 AM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#123366 - 06/30/06 12:05 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
All that ssystem does is encourage irresponsible behaviour and irresponsible use.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

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#123367 - 06/30/06 12:13 PM DROP THIS!!! [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
No sir, you are wrong.

I refer you to the Canadian Forces Physical Fitness Guide for Applicants to the Canadian Forces 2005, specifically pages 10-14. The facts are clear and able to be understood by anyone with an eigth grade education. It is not heresay or something I heard from someone else, it is fact.

Would you like the CD-ROM package as well? I have plenty.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Now we can drop it because you are in fact wrong.

Now go write a term paper.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123368 - 06/30/06 12:41 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
My comment was about your mindset, not your profession.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#123369 - 06/30/06 01:06 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
"Gentlemen! Gentlemen! There is no arguing here! This the war room!" ~Doctor Strangelove

I just had to throw in a funny quote.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#123370 - 06/30/06 01:10 PM Re: DROP THIS!!! [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Pages 10-14 describe pre-enrollment expectations. How does this reflect on what is expected of soldiers once they are already enrolled? That's what's at issue. If you have official information on that, then I'll stand corrected.


Edited by reprobate (06/30/06 01:10 PM)
_________________________
reprobate

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#123371 - 06/30/06 01:12 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Colonel_Akula]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

All that ssystem does is encourage irresponsible behaviour and irresponsible use.




I agree. But you are out of line to assume that Ms. tovasshi's family is irresponsible.
_________________________
reprobate

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#123372 - 06/30/06 03:31 PM Re: DROP THIS!!! [Re: reprobate]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
According to one of the training officers here, what is expected of them is the same. They are both expect to be able to run 15k with 300 lbs on the their backs (the weight of their sack). They are both expected to use the same weapons and finish the same tests, they sleep in the same baracks and eat the same food. Most of the soldiers work out on their own and how they do so is up to them, but they all have to take the same test, because if you can't run said distance in under so many minutes with your sack, you are fucked. If you cannot use the proper equipment, you are useless.

The reason they have lower standards for women to get in is because they are trying to draw more in. I have met many males who have failed the entry requirements, even by the female standards. The male standards are easy to pass even for the average female. 19 pushups? 19 situps? Seriously, lowering the standards for females isn't worth mentioning when the male standards are low in the first place. It is just an entry exam. They don't get to fight for you until they pass a real test, which again, is equal for both genders.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123373 - 06/30/06 03:38 PM Re: DROP THIS!!! [Re: reprobate]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
Once again your comments are irrelevant. The fact remains that standards have been lowered to accommodate more females into the forces. That was my point and that is the fact.

I am done with you and this subject.
_________________________
"We are evolutionaries in the purest sense of the word. Spiritually and intellectually we are transcending a world grown rotten and we are transvaluing values, because for us, the highest value is irrefutable."

"Delay is like Death"
Peter the Great.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
Orwell.

Top
#123374 - 06/30/06 04:26 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>>Quality of care is another issue altogether.
>
>I've heard the same thing about Canadian hospitals.

I've heard things along these lines too, and it's something that came to mind while reading this thread. I've heard that although Canadian healthcare is socialized, the average quality of the medical world is poor in comparison to what's found in the US. For example, the average Canadian ambulance might often not have all the on-board supplies properly stocked , or the equipment is relatively arcane, etc. I'm just basing this off of stories I've heard, but maybe somebody else here would know more about this from personal experience.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#123375 - 06/30/06 07:04 PM Gentlemen... [Re: pitzi_83]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Gentlemen, let us do that title justice. I have kept this thread in the public forum rather than remove it to the members' forum because so far it has been polite and some of the main participants are nonmembers. Please, do not let tempers flare when we disagree.

I would prefer if we are able to allow candid conversation even in public forums, but if anyone is honestly offended by comments here and it has become too personal, then I will simply move it below, or out of sight entirely.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123376 - 06/30/06 08:02 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Bill_M]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I had an ambulance ride late last year, but it wasn't serious and I turned out not to need any services (or even the ambulance, really).
_________________________
reprobate

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#123377 - 06/30/06 08:18 PM Ambulances [Re: Bill_M]
PWG Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 403
Loc: MI
Ambulances in Canada may vary as much as they do here in the US, depending on ownership, jurisdiction, and population served.

The ambulance I staff is relatively new, with up to date equipment and drugs.

I had a chance to work with an ambulance crew in Wyoming two years ago, when the group I was riding motorcycles with came upon a roll-over accident.

The two rattle-trap rigs that showed up did not really inspire me with confidence considering the distances they have to traverse to the nearest hospital.

But, that's what they had to work with.

I would assume that ambulances in Canada are covered by some kind of local regulations, as they are in different states in the US.

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#123378 - 06/30/06 08:24 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Bill_M]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
There's a pretty simple solution to public health care. In fact, it's already been put to work in another professional field. In the law field, plenty of people are happy to be a public defender. You get what you pay for, but the idea is that any lawyer is better than none at all. Then of course, there are lawyers who go into private practice and make the big bucks. This is how I feel about socialized health care. There can be free clinics and doctors who are approved by and who accept payment from the government (kinda like what's done with Medicaid.) Then there's a higher level of care with the really skilled doctors. You have to pay extra for extra care, but this happens already. I mean, seriously, do you think Bill Gates goes to the local yokel doctor down at the free clinic? This system works great. There's still a financial incentive to be a doctor, there's an incentive to be exceptional in the field, and the rest of us can have some medical care.

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#123379 - 06/30/06 08:29 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Bill_M]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
According to the World health orginization (WHO) Canada outranks the US. France actually came in first. Canada is 30th, the US came in 37th. We were both beaten by Saudi Arabia (27). Canada has an infant mortality rate of 4.8 and a life expectancy of 80.1. The US has an infant mortality of 6.5 and life expectancy of 77.7.

On ambulances. From personal experience, it depends on what city you live in. All the ones I have seen have had fully equiped with all the supplies.
_________________________
Hi.

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#123380 - 06/30/06 08:33 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: reprobate]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
I was not myself making that implication, and while I do not speak for Colonel Akula, I believe he is with me on this: I do not find Tovasshi's family to be irresponsible for doing what is best for them, even if it means taking advantage of an irresponsible government system; indeed, were it my own daughter I would choose her health over ideologies without hesitation.

However, Tovasshi made the mistake of transferring what is best for her family as an argument for why Canada's governmental system is superior, and that is what I, and apparently others, disagree with. I am not "anti Canadian" but I think that the degree to which liberalism is embraced there is sometimes disgusting. It is like California and the Yankees had a lovechild and tossed it to the north!

What anyone thinks of her otherwise is their own business, but I doubt that Canadians themselves would fault her for a situation she can do little about; what can you do, refuse treatment? Yet no doubt you see the glaring logical hole in her line of argument; her family currently uses this system, and though an American citizen in similar circumstance would probably have equal ability to receive treatment, she concluded that Canadian social systems are therefore superior. And of course the whole "most laws" comment which was absurd on the face of it.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#123381 - 06/30/06 10:14 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

However, Tovasshi made the mistake of transferring what is best for her family as an argument for why Canada's governmental system is superior




Well, she can speak for herself. I thought she made it reasonably clear that she was talking about her own concerns, her own interests, and her own priorities, not about The Way Things Should Be.

Speaking of socialized medicine generally: The situation here should be understood in context. Urban and sub-urban Leftist radicals are not the only ones supporting socialized medicine; they're not even the broadest base of support. Where I come from, and where I live today, that class of people barely registers as a blip on the political radar, although they're probably more prevalent in the Big 4 affluent cities, which collectively account for about 1/3 of the population, I think. For the vast majority, it's motivated by a nebulous sense of Christian charity. (Tommy Douglas, the "inventor" of Canada's health care system, was a Baptist minister in Saskatchewan before sitting in Parliament.) Canada's a much more conservative country than I think many Americans realize.

The principles also resonate pretty deeply with those who live far from the luxuries and conveniences of the Big 4, especially in Atlantic Canada where there the economy depends very much on the cycles of the seasons. Down there, it's not uncommon to find yourself out of work for a few months at a time, and needing to crash on a friend's couch. The next year, the tables could be reversed. It's in everyone's interest to cultivate little support networks that you can fall back on in times of need. (Didn't High Priestess Nadramia once suggest something like this, as a possible model for Satanic welfare? ) In their muddled way, they see socialized health care as an extension of that kind of practice. Now that's definitely wrong, definitely ill-advised, but not totally as stupid as it's been made out to be here.

In short, getting rid of it altogether is NOT going to be a serious public agenda item any time soon, and that has nothing to do with Left vs. Right.

Any serious talk of The Way Things Should Be will have to balance two concerns:
1) There must be a market, and choice of provider;
2) It's gotta be robust enough to handle some level of freeloading, because Canadians generally seem to think that maintaining a certain level of health is a public good.

I have heard of doctors trying to push for private, non-profit insurance co-ops that might serve rural counties. This would satisfy the requirements, and would be my ideal solution. From what I gather, the patients would agree to the idea, but they're blocked by politicians, bureaucrats and activists in the capital cities -- because it's not "public health care".
_________________________
reprobate

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#123382 - 04/05/07 05:07 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: pitzi_83]
khefer Offline


Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 15
I think the Netherlands is a good example of a de facto Satanic nation. I rational approach to life: materially well-off, with tolerance for different philosophies, gay marriage, prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. Maybe a bit too soft on crime, though.

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#123383 - 04/05/07 05:10 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: khefer]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
Quote:

I think the Netherlands is a good example of a de facto Satanic nation. I rational approach to life: materially well-off, with tolerance for different philosophies, gay marriage, prostitution, drugs, gambling, etc. Maybe a bit too soft on crime, though.




What have these things got to do with Satanism?

I suggest you read more and talk less.

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#123384 - 04/05/07 05:12 PM Re: A Satanic nation. [Re: Mr Sam]
khefer Offline


Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 15
Quote:

What have these things got to do with Satanism?

I suggest you read more and talk less.


it's in the same line of thought as tovasshi's and many other posts in this thread.


Edited by khefer (04/05/07 05:15 PM)

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#472111 - 03/30/12 03:35 AM Re: Wine and wafers, or beer and nuts? [Re: S_Magazine]
kwaku philip Offline


Registered: 03/30/12
Posts: 5
In my country they practice witch crafting but i here is different altogether that is why i want to learn much here

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