Page 2 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#123562 - 09/25/05 02:00 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Jack_Lantern]
Phenylalanine Offline


Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Michigan
Why, of course that's sanctity! Whirlwind marriages of messed-up proportions are all over the Bible, and if it's in the Bible, it's fair game for any good ol' Protestant society!

Wow. I usually am not sarcastic. That was just such a good post.
_________________________
"Suppose you threw a love affair and nobody came?" - Lorrie Moore, "How to Become a Writer"

Top
#123563 - 09/25/05 02:28 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: TrojZyr]
bianca Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 142
Loc: Right where I should be.
Quote:

........ gay people often seem to be having a lot of fun flaunting their disregard for traditional boundaries and taboos.



Yes,many do,and I've heard many say they only want to go to Massachusetts and get married because they CAN. That attitude DOES trivialize marriage to sincere couples gay or straight.
Quote:


Gay people mix up the boundaries and mess up the roles, so those folks reason that if we tip our hats to gays, eventually, no one will want to fulfill the social duties of husband, wife, child, father, mother, man, or woman, and society will collapse. Irrational? Yes. An actual concern people often hold? Yes.



I for one,don't think it's irrational. For example, some birth certificates of children of married lesbian couples in Massachusetts are not being honoured because it's NOT biologically possible to have two mothers and no father, no matter whose marriage is legal or not. So what then will there be? Parent One and Parent Two, like their marriage certificates say Spouse A and Spouse B? If that's the case, then there are societal roles gone-no husband,no wife,no mother,no father. Whether this is "good" or "bad", I don't know. I certainly don't think it's beneficial to the child, and I can't wait to see how f'ed up this generation of experimental children are.
Marriage should be taken out of the juristiction of the state and be replaced across the board with civil unions for all. If someone then wants a religious marriage of some sort,let'em have it, and put this topic to an end.
_________________________
"....a powerful sorceress must be cautious about aligning herself with, and transferring power to, unworthy men."

Top
#123564 - 09/25/05 02:36 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: bianca]
Phenylalanine Offline


Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 94
Loc: Michigan
Some parts of your post made me think it was going someplace bizarre, but the resolution was something that made me smile.

You're absolutely right. Sociologically, it has to be considered. As soon as roles start to collapse, what will children learn? I hadn't thought too much about the process, but I imagine a step to the remedy involves removing the "mother" and "father" image from programming and replacing it with "nurturer" and "disciplinarian". Once those roles are re-patterened, it would then evolve into "egalitarian" and "authoritarian". Finished, I hope the pattern ends up as Parent A and Parent B.

That process would take a very long time, though, and this is pretty radical change for an extremely discriminated-against demographic.

I know; I'm there.

(Side note: Your signature made me laugh enormously.)
_________________________
"Suppose you threw a love affair and nobody came?" - Lorrie Moore, "How to Become a Writer"

Top
#123565 - 09/25/05 03:43 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

Our High Priest has a slightly different take on this, here, but I personally find the whole marriage thing anachronistic. I think that if men were the only people involved in the equation, save for religious zealots, marriage would be no more binding than a domestic partnership arrangement. But ladies like weddings. The fact that I think something like two thirds of the same-sex couples in Massachusetts and Vermont (civil unions) that actually got married were female seems to add credence to this opinion. That's not to say that men don't enjoy and/or value their weddings, but, traditionally, it's been all about the girls.




Oh definately.

The "traditional" wedding we have today is the decendant of great big formal occaisons that kings and courtiers would have to proclaim publicly who their mate was. It was more about saying "This woman is mine and any children she has are my heirs". And of course they were rich, dressed their brides in lace and whatnot, threw big hoohows at the church so the gawkeyed commoners would spectate. And all the young women would swoon and fantisise about young princes doing the same thing for them, and this got passed down from generation and so on.

All of that appeals greatly to women, it's a terribly romantic thing to have a man go all out and blow wads of cash on a humongous wedding that gushes all kinds of Arthurian Camelot-goodieness.

There's an entire industry surrounding marriage, and wedding gowns and so on, for women. Ever see some of those catalogs of wedding clothing? Three quarters of them are loads of attire for brides and bridesmaids, and men get about three pages at the back for five or six styles of tuxedoes.

It's a girl-thang. I'll never understand it really, I just like getting dressed up and hang out at the receptions and pick up the bridesmaids and feel up the thighs of the pastors' daughters.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

Top
#123566 - 09/25/05 03:56 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Felstorm]
Rev_Malebranche Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
I work with two twentysomethig girls.

And let me tell ya, bitches know DIAMONDS. They are smart, practical girls, but it's amazing how tuned in they are to anything 'wedding.' One left work early the other day to go look at her sisters' wedding ring...

And speaking of Brides Magazine...

Isn't that a mighty paperweight?

It's like 2 inches thick.

We can't cancel marriage, just because it's a pointless, expensive anachronism. Think of the layoffs!

I have to say that, even though they should know better, I see a lot of young men getting completely screwed by this marriage deal. I find it amazing that employable women with college degress are still able to take men to the cleaners in divorce court. People look at marriage through rose colored glasses. I see relationships that could have ended with a Uhaul and a security deposit on a new place, but they end up becoming substantial financial burdens instead. It's really sad to watch.

MEN:

DO NOT GET MARRIED. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR GIRLFRIEND SAYS. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR PERSONAL WELL BEING TO SATISFY HER WEDDING FANTASY.


Top
#123567 - 09/25/05 04:20 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Quote:

MEN:
DO NOT GET MARRIED. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR GIRLFRIEND SAYS. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR PERSONAL WELL BEING TO SATISFY HER WEDDING FANTASY.



I don't necessarily agree with you on this.

Marriage itself is not bad, it's an extended ritual, and the sacrifice could be seen as a tradeoff for other pleasant things like having a slave. Of course it can make hell of any relationship when incompatible persons pretend that they belong together, when it's no longer an indulgence to be with the significant other(s).

But who has the time to seek the one (or more ) who is really in harmony with him, and who guarantees that they won't change over the years?

People don't have time to wait and don't have the energy to seek their mates, and of course don't have the courage and objectivity to admit "darling, it's over, goodbye". Many of those who are married feel that they invested too much into that relationship just to let it go to oblivion. So they suffer instead. It's their loss. But I don't think that marriage should be the scapegoat when the real problem is the good old stupidity.

Top
#123568 - 09/25/05 04:35 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Phenylalanine]
bianca Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 142
Loc: Right where I should be.
Quote:

Sociologically, it has to be considered. As soon as roles start to collapse, what will children learn? I hadn't thought too much about the process, but I imagine a step to the remedy involves removing the "mother" and "father" image from programming and replacing it with "nurturer" and "disciplinarian". Once those roles are re-patterened, it would then evolve into "egalitarian" and "authoritarian". Finished, I hope the pattern ends up as Parent A and Parent B.





I really think you're on to something with your analysis/proposals. Now, HOW do we implement them? We must take over now, to ease then transition
_________________________
"....a powerful sorceress must be cautious about aligning herself with, and transferring power to, unworthy men."

Top
#123569 - 09/25/05 05:04 AM Re: gay marriage [Re: Rev_Malebranche]
UmbraeNoctem Offline
Banned

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 735
Loc: Barksdale AFB, Louisiana, USA
Quote:

MEN:

DO NOT GET MARRIED. IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR GIRLFRIEND SAYS. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR PERSONAL WELL BEING TO SATISFY HER WEDDING FANTASY.


From personal experience, I would fully agree.

On the note of gay marriage: I don't even think it needs to be an issue, it is such a waste of energy. If someone wants to get married, so be it, it is their life. There should be no debate.
_________________________
Forever Alive,
Umbrae Noctem
---

Alien Elite.
Test Everything. Believe Nothing.

Top
#123570 - 09/25/05 01:21 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: Felstorm]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

Oh definately.

The "traditional" wedding we have today is the decendant of great big formal occaisons that kings and courtiers would have to proclaim publicly who their mate was. It was more about saying "This woman is mine and any children she has are my heirs". And of course they were rich, dressed their brides in lace and whatnot, threw big hoohows at the church so the gawkeyed commoners would spectate. And all the young women would swoon and fantisise about young princes doing the same thing for them, and this got passed down from generation and so on.

All of that appeals greatly to women, it's a terribly romantic thing to have a man go all out and blow wads of cash on a humongous wedding that gushes all kinds of Arthurian Camelot-goodieness.

There's an entire industry surrounding marriage, and wedding gowns and so on, for women. Ever see some of those catalogs of wedding clothing? Three quarters of them are loads of attire for brides and bridesmaids, and men get about three pages at the back for five or six styles of tuxedoes.

It's a girl-thang. I'll never understand it really, I just like getting dressed up and hang out at the receptions and pick up the bridesmaids and feel up the thighs of the pastors' daughters.




It's funny, the more things change the more they stay the same. Yes, it's a girl "thang". And yes, it is a huge industry. Like any other huge industry it is propagandized to make every little girl think she deserves the knight in shining armor, and the wedding to go with it. It begins at the earliest of ages with your pal and mine, Disney. (talk about Satanic) Fill little girls' heads with romance and prince charming, spoon feed this all throughout her formative years and when she is ripe for marriage she will want to spend thousands of dollars on HER wedding. No wonder it is more important to women. The problem is, they don't indoctrinate the men to be the knight in shining armor to go along with it. heh heh

On the wedding thing, I say take all that money you were going to spend on a wedding and have the biggest indulgence party you can imagine. (or smallest if you prefer) Invite all your friends to celebrate with you because you are happy that you have someone to share the moments of your life with.

On the marriage thing in general, I agree with Phenylalanine on this one. An agreement between consenting adults,(no matter how you want to intertwine those adults) in whatever way they want that agreement to read. Keep government and religion the Hell out of it. You want childern at some point in this union? Fine, I have seen some very well adjusted children from families of gay couples, poly couples, D/s couples, etc. etc. It is not whether the parents consist of one man and one woman, but how fucked up the parents are that are raising the children that dictates how they will turn out. IMHO.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


Top
#123571 - 09/25/05 01:40 PM Re: more on marriage [Re: Felstorm]
Rattlesnake Offline


Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Yurop
Quote:

The "traditional" wedding we have today is the decendant of great big formal occaisons that kings and courtiers would have to proclaim publicly who their mate was. It was more about saying "This woman is mine and any children she has are my heirs". And of course they were rich, dressed their brides in lace and whatnot, threw big hoohows at the church so the gawkeyed commoners would spectate. And all the young women would swoon and fantisise about young princes doing the same thing for them, and this got passed down from generation and so on.





I'm not so sure about that. The family structure exists a great deal of time before the king's era came to be. Even since neolithic times, in those ancient tribes is where monogamy was instituted. When a man's stenght was essential for his survival, women being biologicaly weaker could not survive by themselves in that harsh environment, and needed a man's protection to make it through. Then men would protect their children too, and those early witches managed to get what they wanted from men. Paternal instinct is something non existing. At most, a man sees his son as a version of him and he wants him to succeed in life as some sort of mirror image of himself. But this happens today, because before monogamy was instituted men were in a fuck and go situation. Which suits me just fine, to say the least. Also matriarchy existed not because women were respected and those apes were fascinated by the miracle of birth as some romantic fools believe, but because no one really knew who the father of the children was, so women's bloodlines existed then, instead of men's nowadays. And in those days, bisexuality, bestiality, pedophilia were the rule. That is, if you survived long enough for sexual insticts to become activated.
_________________________
Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company

Top
#123572 - 09/25/05 02:26 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: Krupa]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
I think anyone who talks bad about homosexual people are just insecure with themselves, and so they need something to make themselves think there are people below them. Bashing gays is just an excuse for their own insecurity.

Also, what if THEY are gay and don’t want to accept it, so they take it out on others?

I respect all orientations. Everyone’s sexual preferences are their own, and there is nothing wrong with being homosexual. I am generally straight, but I respect homosexuals just as much.

Weddings are definitely a girl thing. However, if I ever get married, I don’t think I will want anything big. Something small would be nicer, and I wouldn’t want to get all stressed out about it, since I DO have a life. Also, instead of having the pastor read bible verses, I’ll have him read us some classic poetry or something dramatic and secular. I’ll probably write some poetry of my own that I’d want him to read aloud.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

Top
#123573 - 09/25/05 03:27 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: bianca]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
........ gay people often seem to be having a lot of fun flaunting their disregard for traditional boundaries and taboos.


Yes,many do,and I've heard many say they only want to go to Massachusetts and get married because they CAN. That attitude DOES trivialize marriage to sincere couples gay or straight.


Yes, it does trivialize it. But, I was addressing the matter of "why people are bothered by gay marriage." And, thinking gays are having more fun than them while casting off social norms is one of the reasons why people are bothered.

So what then will there be?

Well, pretty much the same thing there's been all along, with some more obvious, visible, seemingly "new", elements--straight marriages will still exist, single parents will still exist, gay marriages will become part of the social landscape, and both nonmarried straight and gay relationships will continue to exist. Parents, societies, and schools throughout time have had children encounter and endure situations much stranger and much more disconcerting and damaging, than same-sex parentage.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#123574 - 09/25/05 03:32 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: dragondancer]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Quote:


On the wedding thing, I say take all that money you were going to spend on a wedding and have the biggest indulgence party you can imagine. (or smallest if you prefer) Invite all your friends to celebrate with you because you are happy that you have someone to share the moments of your life with.





I'd just like to comment this is almost exactly what me and my wife done for our wedding - the ceremony itself was very simple (though we had 2 - the local registry office aren't very flexible in the wording of the ceremony so we performed our own symbolic one beforehand) and we celebrated the whole day afterwards.
_________________________
Yes, I named myself after a neurotransmitter

Top
#123575 - 09/25/05 03:37 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: bianca]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Quote:


Yes,many do,and I've heard many say they only want to go to Massachusetts and get married because they CAN. That attitude DOES trivialize marriage to sincere couples gay or straight.





This entirely depends upon how one views marriage - if you view it as something to display to others then yes it becomes trivialised. But if you view it as (and this is what it should be) a declaration of partnership/love between consenting individuals then it shouldn't matter who else is getting married and how. Regardless of how many couples get married by elvis impersonators, on first dates or in other stupid ways - those who are truly sincere will still remain and their marriages shall remain intact so long as they keep it so.
_________________________
Yes, I named myself after a neurotransmitter

Top
#123576 - 09/25/05 04:16 PM Re: gay marriage [Re: TrojZyr]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

Parents, societies, and schools throughout time have had children encounter and endure situations much stranger and much more disconcerting and damaging, than same-sex parentage.




Yeah, give a little credit to our public schools!
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

Top
Page 2 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 >


Forum Stats
12198 Members
73 Forums
43975 Topics
406014 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements