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#129909 - 11/03/05 08:38 PM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: WinterGoat]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

As a new Satanist here who finds it difficult at times not to slip back into the old Xian mindsets, I would just like to say:

Yes!
Most welcome!
Most refreshing!
Most stirring!




Did you not read what Warlock Leviathan wrote?? I must ask you, how can you refer to yourself as a Satanist and agree with his post yet find it difficult to avoid a christian mindset?

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#129910 - 11/03/05 10:38 PM Maturity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Whining that nobody can define excellence for you, therefore your laziness will suffice, will not get you anywhere with genuine Satanists.

Excellent point sir. If there is anything that I have found to be a dinstinctive characteristic among most of the Satanists on this forum, it would be their unsatiable desire to improve; they are always taking the next step forward.

For example, there are many artists on this message board who are total virtuosos, however, they often down play their own abillities. I can relate to that. I love to draw, and as of lately I have recieved a lot of positive feed-back, but it's never good enough for me. I always find something that needs to be fixed, not just with art, but with everything I do. Self criticism can be a very rewarding thing. I don't ever want to be totally satasfied because there would be no room to move forward and grow.

I think a lot of times people (newbies) who post here are just young, and perhaps they still have a lot of growing up to do, so they don't take the corollory of their words into consideration. Some people have to experience the hardships of life before they can appreciate what it means to be responsible.

I am in my first semester of college, and one thing I realized is how much these kids who are fresh out of highschool simply don't care. Their parents are paying all of this money to put these guys through school, yet half of these kids don't even show up to class when they are supposed to. They have such an insoucient attitude about their grades, for example, there is a girl in my english class who has failed every test and every in-class essay since the semester began. She never turns her assignments in on time, and then she giggles "I don't think I'm going to pass this class, he, he." And I'm like "Gee, I wonder why..."

I guess it's different for me because I don't have to go to school. I go because I want to. I was very reckless in highschool, and I made a couple choices that I probably wasn't mature enough to make. As a result, I dropped out of highschool and have had to work long hours at dangerous mill jobs, with bad pay, just to make ends meet. I know what it's like to do without. I know what is at stake, and so I'm taking the steps I need to take. I can appreciate the importance of writing an annotated bibliography, or an in-class speech. It makes me angry when these kids (some adults do it too) complain about their bad grades and blame their "busy scheduals" for why they couldn't study for their tests. I work eleven hours a day, five days a week. I have children to take care of, help them with their school work, and make sure they have food on the table. I also have to drive a half hour to and from work, and an hour to and from school four nights a week. Guess what. I'm still passing my classes!

I think, in the final analysis, one has to want excellence or they will never achieve it.

I want it.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#129911 - 11/03/05 10:46 PM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Yes, I've had to deal with some hard-core relativistic thinkers lately, who basically argue that to set any standards, to say "yes" to A but "no" to "B," is to "foreclose" on an option and settle for (gasp!) "binary" and create a (gasp! cry!) "hegemony" or "hierarchy." For shame, for shame.

Of course, you don't always have to say "no" to kitsch, to the mud hut, or to the grunge band---you just say "yes" to them with regards to the right questions, in the right contexts, because even they might have their own use somewhere. But, if the comparison is to Beethoven, yes, kids, there is a "hierarchy" here.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#129912 - 11/04/05 07:15 AM Re: Maturity [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Quote:


I guess it's different for me because I don't have to go to school. I go because I want to. I was very reckless in highschool, and I made a couple choices that I probably wasn't mature enough to make. As a result, I dropped out of highschool and have had to work long hours at dangerous mill jobs, with bad pay, just to make ends meet. I know what it's like to do without. I know what is at stake, and so I'm taking the steps I need to take. I can appreciate the importance of writing an annotated bibliography, or an in-class speech. It makes me angry when these kids (some adults do it too) complain about their bad grades and blame their "busy scheduals" for why they couldn't study for their tests. I work eleven hours a day, five days a week. I have children to take care of, help them with their school work, and make sure they have food on the table. I also have to drive a half hour to and from work, and an hour to and from school four nights a week. Guess what. I'm still passing my classes!





The difference between you and them sir, is that you can see the importance of your education. Vast numbers of people view education as a chore, in all forms. Yes, high school is pretty crap and mind-numbing, but without it you're going to end up stuck with no employers wanting you (not even mcdonalds most likely).

University is full of the same people who view the work as a chore, even after education is no longer mandatory. There are people on my degree course who are in their 40s and have actually said to me "Gareth, i've never done an assignment before" and couldn't figure out how to write a document layout for an essay.
My theory on this is quite simple, they jumped straight into working and now their employer has sent them back to university - they do not attend out of personal interest or to obtain qualifications - they attend because their boss has told them to.
_________________________
Yes, I named myself after a neurotransmitter

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#129913 - 11/04/05 09:05 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
*Stands and applauds*

Bravo, good sir. Bravo! Truer words were never spoken.
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#129914 - 11/04/05 10:10 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
wickedmistress62 Offline


Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 90
Loc: North Dakota
First of all i would like to thank you LeviathanXIII, for taking the time to post this for others to read. I'm sure it has inspired all of us in one way or another. Was very informative for me. I look forward to reading more of your posts. Thank you for your excellence choice of words.

Hail Satan,Hail You

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#129915 - 11/04/05 04:23 PM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Carkosa]
WinterGoat Offline


Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 151
Loc: WA State
Quote:

Quote:

As a new Satanist here who finds it difficult at times not to slip back into the old Xian mindsets, I would just like to say:

Yes!
Most welcome!
Most refreshing!
Most stirring!




Did you not read what Warlock Leviathan wrote?? I must ask you, how can you refer to yourself as a Satanist and agree with his post yet find it difficult to avoid a christian mindset?




And have you not read my introduction? Show at least a little intelligence and go read it before you judge me.


Edited by unHERDof (11/04/05 04:31 PM)
_________________________
Every man has to seek in his own way
to make his own self more noble
and to realize his own true worth.

Albert Schweitzer


They're persecuting what they can't stand to look at in themselves--the truth.

From the song Warlock
by The Electric Hellfire Club

TESLAMAP5

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#129916 - 11/04/05 06:30 PM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: WinterGoat]
Lilithflower Offline


Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Quote:

Quote:

As a new Satanist here who finds it difficult at times not to slip back into the old Xian mindsets, I would just like to say:

Yes!
Most welcome!
Most refreshing!
Most stirring!




Did you not read what Warlock Leviathan wrote?? I must ask you, how can you refer to yourself as a Satanist and agree with his post yet find it difficult to avoid a christian mindset?



I'm with unHERDof here. Throughout my childhood, I knew that I was made for great things. My Xtian parents/teachers tried to drum it into me that ambition was a bad thing and that it was "far better to serve in heaven than to rule in hell."
Xtians do not only accept mediocrity, they encourage it. Heaven forbid that those among their flock (of SHEEP) should use their brains. They might start asking questions! They might start thinking that they actually know better than those "whom god hath appointed"!
As I have mentioned before, it has taken me every one of my 29 years on this planet, to dump the guilt, that was used to control me, from the time I was old enough to know what "sin" meant.
Leviathan VIII, if I had read your words at the tender age of 16, I would have felt that same fire blazing in my belly, as I do when I read them today. I would have known without a doubt, this is me!
RIP Xtian mindset!

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#129917 - 11/04/05 06:33 PM A cut above. [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
At the risk of sounding redundant, I certainly found your post to be excellent, Warlock.
You've done a fine job of summarizing many of the quibble-causing, reoccuring problems in a clear and subtly profound way.

This is great:
Quote:

The same is not true of Satanism; if you are a fuck-up, if you are undesirable, we will not tolerate you sullying the name of Satanism with your foolishness.




I may just have to quote you on that in the future!

Another great point:
Quote:

We test everything, nothing moreso than those who would place themselves as our peers. If its too much to ask for you to be among the best, if its too difficult for you to be worthy rather than worthless, expect to learn by the way of hard knocks that we have better ways to spend our time than passing out group hugs.




The part that I emphasized in bold says it perfectly!
I apply that to friendship as well, perhaps to an even greater extent than I do on these forums.
How can you respect someone who displays a flagrant lack of respect for themselves?

Quote:

These people are in the wrong religion. Maybe their Christian "brothers" will embrace their pathetic mediocrity, maybe that sort of lazy shit slides with whatever high school subculture they identify with, but it won't cut it here.





*cough* stratification *cough*

I definitely think that your post should be thumbtacked, perhaps even added on to the "read-this-first" section.
Again, my hat's off to you, Warlock.
Cheers!


HS!
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#129918 - 11/04/05 07:09 PM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: WinterGoat]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:


And have you not read my introduction? Show at least a little intelligence and go read it before you judge me.




I read your introduction before I replied to your first statement. Although your statement on this thread alone was enough, your intro also backs up my argument! A true Satanist has no difficulty or struggle in avoiding the christian mindset. Your intro says that you were a christian for 25 years! It's more understandable to be duped as a child. Alot of Satanists were brought up by christian parents and broke free once they learned to truly reason (which shouldn't take 25 years!). A true Satanist NEVER had or will have a christian mindset. They may only obey thier parents wishes when very young because they have no choice in the matter during that time in thier life. However, it should not take you 25 years to "see the light". You hung on to those beliefs out of your own free will as an adult.

You claimed to follow christianity throughout your adult life and only this past year you learned about the Satanic religion. You basically "converted" to Satanism, you were not born this way. If you really did read all of Magus LaVey's work you would know that Satanists are born and not made. Put all of that together with your statement and the fact that you left the christian religion only three years ago after 25 years of brainwashing. It's only natural that I have my doubts about you. Think whatever you must, those are the facts. I'm not going to clutter this beautiful thread, you already answered my question.

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#129920 - 11/05/05 12:28 AM Just stop. [Re: ]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Emotional triggers based in your very person and nature since childhood might take a bit longer.




Why?

How long does it take to decide to quite hitting your own head with a hammer?

How much pain is required to decide to stop hurting yourself?

But if you still equate pain with "good" and pleasure with "bad" then I suppose it can take ... a lifetime to never happen.

Once you understand that you have been hurting yourself because of an anti-human ethical standard, if you are a Satanist you simply stop.

If you are not, you keep on going - like a self-punishing Energizer Bunny.

And that is the norm: pointless masochism in action.

They won't stop it.

They like the pain.

It makes them "good".

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#129921 - 11/05/05 12:46 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Poets Offline


Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 24
Quote:

Each individual must choose for himself his own aesthetic standards, but we think that there are certain elements of achievement that are undeniable, even if they are not satisfying to everyone. For example, one cannot deny the superior accomplishment inherent in a Beethoven symphony, a Michelangelo sculpture, a daVinci painting, or a Shakespeare play.





Quantifying achievement isn't always so difficult. The arts encompass a wide breadth of possibilities, but ultimately an enduring piece of music or timeless painting persists because it means something to a lot of people (or perhaps a few important people). It could also be argued that the sheer technical skill involved in a complicated measure of music or difficult brush technique would qualify as exceptional art. My personal tastes in the arts underscore the meaning behind the work--that is, whether it produces a new perspective or understanding in me by observing it with my senses. I can gather new ideas and meanings by observing a Picasso painting, but a Jackson Pollack abstract art piece looks like vomit on a page from my perspective--and it probably always will.

It is much easier to quantify achievement in hard sciences, mathematics, and social studies. My personal calling is Psychology; a relatively young newcomer to empirical understanding. One of the great challenges of psychology is to find a reliable method to attach numbers to abstract principles such as intelligence, memory, and reasoning. Some academics think that this an impossible task, but in my educated opinion it is merely a matter of finding the right tools to do the job. I have dedicated myself to this study with the aim of exposing better methods and insight into the study of the inner workings of the human mind--the most complicated subject matter available.

Excellence is the ability to surpass your alleged limitations.

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#129922 - 11/05/05 01:35 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Carkosa]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
You are exactly correct. Satanists are born, not made. Magister Nemo is right on the money when he asks how long it takes to decide to quit hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. It is the same; to a Satanist, its hardly rocket science to decide to cease counter-productive and detrimental behavior. Christianized thought ought to be readily flushed from the mind of a born Satanist, if it was ever permitted to creep in to begin with.

As usual, your brutal honesty cuts to the heart of the matter.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#129923 - 11/05/05 03:10 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Plato Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Hong Kong
Always,excellence is only a by-product of doing something with passion and enthusiasm.

You can never produce a masterpiece for the sake of producing one.

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#129924 - 11/05/05 05:54 AM Re: The Requirements of Excellence [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Tex_Talionis Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Amarillo, TX
I would say that maybe as a young child one could be duped, but even then; I never could believe in the imaginary being in the sky, and surely not for years and years, and then finally "wake up."

The only realization I've ever had in regards to Satanism is that what I lived had a name. I've always been the person I am, nothing ever changed. Even in attempts by my parents when I was young to be indoctrinated. I remember very clearly being 13, forced to go to young catholic classes and always questioning how any of it could be. So many questions and so many thought provoking questions I wasn't called on. When I forced to be baptized even the priest claimed that I may set the 'church' ablaze

I had thought I was an atheist all through my schooling. I had pagan friends and read on their beliefs and thought it to be the same crap as christianity, the only thing that intrigued me was the idea of ritual, but even then I thought of it in a psychological sense. When I moved to Dallas and put myself through college a friend suggested a read of TSB, and that was it. It didn't take study; I bought TSB, TSR, and Satan Speaks. I read my friends copy of The Devil's Notebook. I never had any questions; if you understand what Satanism is about - the only question is "Why didn't I come across this sooner?"

The only thing that I required study which didn't take long to see is that the detractors of the COS are all NOT Satanist. They're usually people with no accomplishments or very little, whose only joy in life is pretending to be a Satanist ONLINE with some cheap website and wanna-be "CHURCH," which usually turns out to be a pen-pal club for those who aren't.

I tried to view all sides, but two foul sheepish ideas helped me realize who the real deal is...those words are pathetic "we need acceptance" words: "UNITY" and "COMMUNITY."

A cry for acceptance and a cry for validation; something no Satanist needs for his life is fulfilling enough that just being is pure validation. The pandering to 'society' for acceptance is the exact thing that the good Doktor spoke against in regards to the white-light religions.

I digress. Some just don't get it. I took me a second to realize that if you're not one of us, there's not much that can be done to help you understand. You may understand what we are, and I don't blame you for admiring; but you aren't.
_________________________
-Hail Satan-
-Tex-
MySpace
Citizen Infernal Empire
Test Everything.

"We live in deeds not years.
You can be what you will to be."
-General George S. Patton

"The things that come to those who wait may be things left by those who got there first!"

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