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#133603 - 11/23/05 09:56 AM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: Bill_M]
ribbit Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 122
It could be that it's one of those things which changes with age. At 18 one's tastes are still in flux. Personal style is something that hasn't really developed yet. And while the world is full of arrogant teenagers it's short on self confident ones. At that point in their lives people model themselves on people whome they admire. Later on you develop your own personal style and gain a little more confidence in yourself. It's only when this natural process gets stuck in the early stages that it becomes pathological.

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#133604 - 11/23/05 10:00 AM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: Mjollnir]
ribbit Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 122
I don't disagree with the greatness. But he breathed his last several years ago. So did Mark Twain, Chaka Zulu and Galileo.

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#133605 - 11/23/05 01:31 PM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: ribbit]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Read: Sychophants Unite.


Think about: Why, if one is secure in oneself, would one be worried or even give a shit about the feelings of others?


Self-awareness, kiddies. It may be a bitch, but it is the only thing that really matters.


Y~


Edited by Ygraine (11/23/05 01:32 PM)
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#133606 - 11/23/05 01:53 PM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: ribbit]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Showing some interest in what Dr. LaVey was into does not constitute worship. I have long been fascinated by his life adventures pre and post CoS, especially the circus and carnival stuff. But I have no ambition to follow in his footsteps in this regard. In fact, the only thing I share with him is perhaps his taste in women, but that is a coincidence. As Magister Rose points out in Confessions of a LaVey Lackey , there is a big difference between respect and worship.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#133607 - 11/23/05 01:54 PM Re: Spare Us [Re: Mason_Rust]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
Quote:

Oh Please!

It's not worship, it's discussion!

This board is for discussion of Satanism and The Church of Satan. It should be expected by everyone who comes here that the person who started it all might get some threads posted about him from time to time.

LaVey isn't just some "dead guy" as you so rudely put it, but an extremely interesting, bold, and wise man. Of course people are going to want to chew the fat on what his likes and dislikes were...especially if you find that you already share one or more of them.

Furthermore, there is a great history involved as to how and why The CoS became what it is today, and many of LaVey's "quirks" are part of the lesser magic that made it possible. Why wouldn't a Satanist want to know about it?

If making a post on a message board, or even an entire thread is the equivalent of worship in your mind, I pity whatever it is you worship. What poor homage you must pay to it!




Well said. I need not say more then.
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#133608 - 11/23/05 02:01 PM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: ribbit]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
After reading your post, I took a deep breath, counted to five
and read other's responses to your post. Everything that
needs to be said about your post has already been very well
said.

Except "go piss up a rope". No one has suggested you do
that yet. I'd like to take this opportunity to invite you to do so
at your leisure.
_________________________




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#133609 - 11/23/05 03:57 PM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: ribbit]
Prometheus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: Germany
You obviously misinterpret some posts fundamentally.

There are a number of points that you should not forget & on the danger of causing one or the other redundancy, I will explain those aspects that I consider of prior relevance to you:

The Doktor has encouraged to embrace one's own personal
& individual tastes & preferences. He himself has been
the most impressive living example.

Simply copying our Founder entirely would therefore mean
to completely dismiss this very basic concept. Besides,
I can't think about any individual that I personally know
who really attempts copying the Doktor.

It is not surprising that many Satanists share certain
aspects of his, since it is known that he used to have
a very exquisite taste, often favouring standards of
quality that had been forgotten by most, even in his times.

I have found a number of aspects that I personally feel
are appealing & see no reason why I should not adopt
certain elements. In fact, I have even enjoyed them before
I was familiar with Dr. LaVeys vita. At the same time,
there are of course a number of points, in which my tastes
differ from the Doktor's. While he had a certain dislike
for the Rock in general & extreme sub-genres in particular,
these make out an essential part of the music that I listen
to. And this is just one example.

My fascination with the Doktor results more from the brilliance in thought that he displays than from the cars that he drove & the pets he had. Nevertheless, you can't separate the 2 aspects.
His life is the perfect application of Satanic principles in the real world.

Hence, his achievements should be honoured, not to be confused with worshipped, as you put it, but about giving respect where respect is due.

Hail Daimon Szandor!
_________________________

HAIL SATAN!

Prometheus











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#133610 - 11/23/05 04:17 PM Re: Spare Us [Re: Mason_Rust]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
The only thing more wretched than wanting your hero to be a god -- is wanting him to be just a man. It shows all the resentment of a robust, larger-than-life personality you'd expect from someone who wasn't and couldn't be. We live in a society where people are made to think they deserve equal respect (which means: no one gets more than they do) just for being "a man". We don't subscribe to that view here.

Anton Szandor LaVey was an outstanding personality; that's what we're celebrating here.


Edited by reprobate (11/23/05 04:18 PM)
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reprobate

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#133611 - 11/23/05 05:13 PM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: Lust]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>I would dress the part to what entertained me. One of
>>my favorite bands was and still is DANZIG. It killed
>>me when I couldn't grow the "mutton chops" beard like
>>Glenn Danzig.

I think one's personal style will inevitably be influenced by some others. Nobody's 100% original. Even the most exotic or original sounding musicians, for example, still had their share of musical influences. Similarly a Satanist can incorporate different elements into his or her own personal aesthetic, perhaps with striking results if the sources seem very unconvential or forgotten in today's world. As LaVey said, "imitate, but never rip-off".

>>I see hero worship, healthy and inspirational.

While being one's own god is the Satanic way to go, I say that surely a sin like idolatry can't be all that unsatanic. Religions treat it as a sin because they can't otherwise compete with competition. I sure have my share of "idols", talented people who have created their own identity and mark in this world.

The real problem I see are those who get mixed up in the delusion that they own their idol ("This new album sucks! I hate him! He needs to write like this.") or take everything on a personal level ("I love Sting's music, therefore I have to help save the rainforest").
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

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#133612 - 11/23/05 05:30 PM Re: Spare Us [Re: reprobate]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Perfect point. It sheds light onto something I pretty much overlooked and didn't think to discuss. But, you're right that there is also too much of a tendency to "equalize" everyone and to reduce the status of truly admirable and outstanding people. My intent is never to do that, because I do believe that outstanding people deserve praise and due respect for being elite.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#133613 - 11/23/05 08:29 PM What I find far more interesting... [Re: ribbit]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
What I find far more interesting is why this bothers you at all.

"Choose your masters wisely," was a very useful piece of advice I remember from the Doktor.

Imitating someone great is not only the sincerest form of flattery but, by doing so, sometimes you learn something you might have otherwised missed.

Imitation is also the manner in which we learn a great deal of what we truly come to understand.

The Doktor imitated many people - very openly - whom he admired. The Secret Life of a Satanist goes into great detail on his mentors and role models.

As a consequence he mastered many skills and then put them to good use in expressing his sense of aesthetics.

One of the results of this is what you see before you: a meeting place for followers of the religion he created!

It takes a great deal of personal confidence to rise above being concerned with whether others judge you as "worshipping" or "imitating" another person.

However it is the best way to really learn what life has to offer, in my humble opinion.

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#133614 - 11/23/05 08:44 PM One comment. [Re: Bill_M]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Still, I do see your point. I've seen some Satanist gatherings where a curious number of attendees were donning the same exact 1940s outfits. It's one thing to dress nice, but the sight of so many of them looking the same made me raise an eyebrow.




I generally agree with your views but wanted to suggest something on this issue.

What you are describing is also called a "power suit".

Wearing black in Western culture has always carried the highest authority (hence its use by the Roman Catholic priesthood for some two thousand years).

Additionally for men to wear three piece suits and ties conveys issues of class and authority as well.

I was at a COS Conclave just last month centered around a science fantasy/horror film festival. There were a number of occult-based groups present and they all looked either like escapees from a Halloween party or slobs (or both).

I saw with pleasure that the COS members were dressed to the "nines" and consequently were treated with deference and respect everywhere - restaurants, museums, by police, on and on.

Consider that the dark suit and tie that was popular in the 1940's has become the exceptional garb of the wealthy and powerful in the 21st century.

Like any tool of Lesser Magic it has its place and purpose.

It works and it works well.

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#133615 - 11/24/05 01:06 AM Stratification [Re: Nemo]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Very well put, Magister.

Imitating someone great is not only the sincerest form of flattery but, by doing so, sometimes you learn something you might have otherwised missed.

Indeed. For an analogy, this is exactly why every chess master has studied the games and every move of former masters.

Studying the "masters" who came before you is one of the key elements to becoming a master yourself.

The key is, we stratify ourselves everyday.

Are you smart enough to choose the best masters for you to study.¤

¤(A question for the board. Obviously, not directed at Magister Nemo.)
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#133616 - 11/24/05 07:01 AM Re: What I find far more interesting... [Re: Nemo]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Thank you, Magister.

I think if someone actually finds they are all that different and disagreeable with our Founder, they are in the wrong place (and not more Satanic than the rest of us).

It never ceases to amaze me to see these people champion The Satanic Bible and The Church of Satan on one hand, then act as if its Author and Founder is of little consequence on the other.

Makes one wonder just what are they doing here or there.
_________________________
www.vampiretemple.com
Are You One Of Us?

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#133617 - 11/24/05 07:56 AM Re: Worship of the Master [Re: ribbit]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
On occasion, there are those who reveal themselves in this world, who truly are above and beyond the rest of their human counterparts. Usually the world cannot abide their greatness. Out of envy, jealousy, and a stubborness to realize there are actually those better than themselves, people either try to convince whomever that these outstanding individuals are in reality nothing, or will outrightly attack their character or person.

Magus LaVey will forever be loved and celebrated...and there will always be those of us who are deeply loyal to him. And for those worthy, I'm sure he'd say the feeling was mutual.


Edited by Caesar (11/24/05 08:05 AM)
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