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#134293 - 11/26/05 04:50 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Caesar]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Quote:

A Satanist may know when they are out of their league (and not make a fool of themselves), which I think is what you are saying here...



Yes, Warlock, though I confess that many times I've donned the jester's hat and played the role perfectly. Learning from those experiences is one of the ways I've discovered the boundaries of my current abilities.


Quote:

...but as far as coming to an end of one's self ultimately, I know I have far to go before I get to that end...if there is one.



In my case, that "end"--if by this you mean a time when one becomes master of all and bound by nothing--is far beyond the horizon. But that's fine. It's the journey that matters most. Everything else is secondary.


DarkWater

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#134294 - 11/26/05 04:55 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

You can arguw with this guy all you want, hs mind is made up and there is no way you can convince the guy.




Well, I suppose you could hypnotise him if you were that bothered. It is not a difficult art to learn, if you have any aptitude for it. To undo a whole belief system would take quite a concentrated effort, though.

Unless you're Derren Brown (atheist, psychologist, cynic, entertainer, hypnotist, general evil little twat but we love him), he did that recently, got a load of atheists in a room, chatted with them in a friendly manner for a bit, then asked them their religious beliefs again, and a few were now agnostic, unsure of themselves. He continued to chat with them, and a little while later he had some christians and some agnostics. After the show, Derren's voiceover stated: "All participants were fully briefed afterwards, and I returned them all to whatever situation their faith, or lack thereof, was to start with". Look here, if you're interested.

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#134295 - 11/26/05 05:08 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Linguascelesta]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Quote:

I think your statement more usefully to the point, and my statement more usefully diplomatic Both true though.



Indeed, LinguaScelesta. My words were not meant as a jab at you. Sometimes it is good to be diplomatic. Other times, however, a point is best made without affectation or delicacy. Pour it in a mug, slide it down the bar, and let the chap drink it as is. No ice. No napkin. No mint afterwards.

I usually prefer diplomacy, though sometimes...


DarkWater

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#134296 - 11/26/05 05:19 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
"1) Pre-biotic Chemistry: the basic components of life (ribosomal peptide)have been made by simply giving mud an electric shock and leaving it over night. This has been tested in labs many times, and infact has been done for my chemistry class (in a Catholic Highschool)."


That for sure doesn't explain the whole thing.
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#134297 - 11/26/05 05:33 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Assabrah]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

That for sure doesn't explain the whole thing




No... The question was not "How did life begin?", but "Where has everything come from?"

A much bigger, and even less relevant, question.

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#134298 - 11/26/05 05:39 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
1-Where did everything came from?

This question is based on the pre-assumption that "everything" was somewhere else and somehow moved to its present location. Since "everything" is "everywhere" is couldn't come form any place. This is a common question Christians ask, because in their minuscule minds the only possible answer is that God made "everything". I always answer that Everything didn't come from anyone, it was always here.

2-The Crusades...

I find estrange that he (The Christian) was the one bringing this up to the conversation. In any case, we all know all wars are fought over power and control of territory. The excuses (We fight for God, We fight for Democracy, blah, blah...) are just propaganda slogans for the consumption of the herd. Everyone wanted to control the commerce routes to the Orient, Christians and Arabs fought over this. That was the Crusades all about. There has never been a "religious war" in this world; it’s always about the money.

3-Science is a Religion.

If someone tells you that, you know he is too stupid to understand the simplest concepts, so maintaining the discussion is pointless. And boring! I recommend choosing "sports" or "which babe has the hottest ass" as more appropriate topics of discussion.
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#134299 - 11/26/05 06:54 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
1) Research the Big Bang. Read Stephen Hawking and Stephen Jay Gould for elaboration. Heck, even research other creation myths. I remember I had a nice book as a child called "In the Beginning" that told various creation myths.

2) Your cousin is being a weasel, but his argument is common. Google gave me: http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/naturalism.html and http://www.egoplace.com/aristotle/aa-ethics.htm

If your cousin is going to play the game this way, I suggest you look to the New Testament for Jesus' assorted teachings...do unto others...love thy neighbor....what ye do to the least of your brethren you do to me....and so on and so forth. If you can go through the backdoor and prove that Jesus doesn't want you whacking people, period, you can potentially gain ground in the debate.

3) Your cousin is repeating baseless rhetoric. Science involves learning about the natural world through observation and systematic, procedural testing and re-testing. Religion is meant to answer metaphysical questions about our origin, our purpose, and our final destination.

In a sense, science can become a religion---meaning, it can be adopted by people as a way of acquiring a sense of ultimate purpose and direction---as can television or hockey or whatever. But, this is not the standard definition of religion, and you should be careful about bringing this up around your cousin because I know from personal experience that they LOVE to take this loophole and run with it.

3b) Scientology is totally different. Scientology is multi-million dollar scheme created by a clever science fiction author. Scientologists believe that our sad feelings are created by dead alien ghosts called thetans who were genocidally blown up by an evil alien overlord named Xenu several million years ago and then brainwashed, and then attached to us.

3c) I suggest you research evolution. Look for a hominid named Lucy. Read some Richard Dawkins. Look for a book called the Seven Daughters of Eve.

But, FYI, don't expect any miracles in the debate. It's practically impossible to pry a fundie, sheep, or idealogue from their paradigm, and they will try even the most absurd mental and physical flips and jumps in order to avoid giving up their point of view.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#134300 - 11/26/05 07:04 PM I wonder... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

#1. He came back to me with "Well, if you don't care, then why should you be living? If you don't care where the air has come from, why breathe it?"




Damn.. This is getting creepy... Well tell him : "Do you see that grass created by your so called God? Well, why do you smoke it??!" ... This guy has a big mental problem...

I didn't know that people had to understand "where the air could come from", to be allowed to breathe it.. At this moment, he started to have a lack of arguments I think.


Just give up. a lot just need to believe because they are afraid to die. They would all bang their head knowing that there's no god above their brainless head... Remember that God = prozak for people like that.


Attachments
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Edited by Assabrah (11/26/05 07:10 PM)
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#134301 - 11/26/05 07:36 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Assabrah]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

Remember that God = prozak for people like that.




Haha. I like your analogy -- so true.

Recently with class we went to visit an institution for delinquent adolescents to do a research on medications... we spent the whole day there... during this whole day I think they had to pray something like 4 times, in between meals & activities... not all of the kids were on medication but all had to pray... so curious little me asks the staff there, why did they all have to pray so many times a day considering the institution isn´t even religious, to which they replied that if they didn´t give them any God to pray for, they would all go completely crazy beyond treatment possibilities. Doped Be!

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#134302 - 11/26/05 08:38 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Linguascelesta]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
No, but its a start, if you can understand basic chemistry you can move on to bigger things. You start with more recent things and then move your way backwards.

You start with "how did life begin?" then you move to "How did the earth form?" (cosmic dust and gravitational pull) then "how did the particles come into exhistance?" then you would have to go into particle theory and how everything is made up of energy and nothing is actually solid. The you go back further and ask "where did that energy come from?" Then you have to go and look up quantum mechanics and read and learn a lot of math. Something to do with a great static nothingness with some kind of magnetic force caused a movement somewhere that was realy fast and spun to the point of creating a neutrino or a dozen.

The point is, there is no one simple answer to the ultimate question. The answer to the beggining of everything is a giant math equation waiting to be answered. (no Douglas Adams references please).

It is easier for these people to simply say "God did it" than to open up a book by Michio Kaku.

The next time he asks you where did everything come from, and then starts going off about God, ask him "where did God come from" and tell him to stop using religion to explain it, Christianity is a religion.


Edited by tovasshi (11/26/05 08:39 PM)
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#134303 - 11/26/05 08:53 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
I appreciate your answer.

but see, christians have found a way to skip studies, they have gathered all in one word : God
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#134304 - 11/26/05 09:31 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
Don't bother.

There is no point in debating christianity.

You won't change him anymore than he will change you.

I suggest debating who'll make it to the super bowl this year instead.

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#134305 - 11/26/05 10:12 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
for your question #1, I have noticed that the big thing with the
Christians these days is geplacing "god" with "Jesus".

For instance, instead of "god created the universe" like they
used to, I hear: "The creator of the universe, Jesus Christ..."

The Christ-heads in my town use code-words such as
"science-types" and "darwinist" to mean non-Christians.

Ask your cousin if he believes that babys are delivered by,
storks and that god put dinosaurs into the fossil record just
to confuse us.

Then, like in the game gomoku, use his strategy against him;
surround him with logic and crush his puny mind into dust.

Or, just don't waste your precious time with dirtbag sheeple.
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#134306 - 11/27/05 04:21 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Assabrah]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>Just give up. a lot just need to believe because they are afraid to die.

Actually, Mr. Assabrah, I am bit afraid of death.

The difference is not fearing death, but seeking solutions to make death more rewarding.

The truth is that these nut-jobs are afraid of living.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#134307 - 11/27/05 04:32 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Discipline]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Death... For me, I don't even think of fearing it now. For at least the past five years I've been working out ways to live forever, by statistics, I have another 49 to get things sorted, so I waste no time in this regard. But because I consider it of great importance to survive, and as a point of NLP / Lesser Magic I always focus on what I want rather than what I don't, I think a lot about immortality and very little about death, so fear grows very small and insignificant, as my knowledge and power grows.

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