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#134278 - 11/26/05 02:31 PM A few annoying questions...
Annos_Satanas Offline


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Minnesota
After speaking with my 22 year old, Christ-worshipping cousin, I've encountered a few questions that I can't seem to answer in a Satanic sense, since I've never encountered them or even had any interest in thinking about them.
I was just wondering if someone could show me a Satanic viewpoint on these blatant inquiries. To school my cousin in his beliefs and to show him that his religion is all about hypocracy and fear is my ultimate goal, but I know I cannot do it alone.

#1. Where has everything come from? (I know it's probably the most stupid weapon Christianity has, but it's still a thorn in the side to answer when not confronted with "God" or "Bible".)

#2. He had brought up the topic of crusaders sometime during the debate. I had asked him that in his Ten Commandments, it says not to kill. I asked him what justified a bunch of crusaders to kill people. He said there's a difference between killing and murder. I don't think so. Am I right? They both end in death.

#3. When trying to use scientific facts, he constantly says that "Stop talking in religion, science is religion". Now, I know that Scientology is religion, but that doesn't make every scientist, and science believer a Scientologist. There has to be some proof, scientific or otherwise, that the human race did not start out with a civilized man and woman in some stupid garden. Anyone know where I can get a hold of it? Unfortunately my cousin has employed the History Channel on his side, since they hold Jesus and God within their texts.

Any help would be extremely appreciated. He's just one of those fanatics you want to beat the shit out of, but I would rather do it intellectually than physically.

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#134279 - 11/26/05 02:42 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
Debating with Christians is always an exercise in futility. The way they think automatically predisposes them towards irrationality over reason.

As for the Crusades, God told the Pope that it was OK to kill Muslims.
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#134280 - 11/26/05 02:45 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
1) I don't know and I don't care. Why should I? It doesn't concern me at all. I only bother with science when it has something to offer me. Look at books of theoretical physics, they're probably closest to a rational explanation.

2) He's right. In the Hebrew, it clearly says "murder", not "kill". Many bibles carry this mistranslation, ie, "Do not kill". The difference between killing and murder is that murder is done for one's own ends, personal gain, etc, wheras killing may be done according to god's will / for the greater good / for the person's own good. Murder is illegal everywhere, as far as I know. Killing, there is much argument for and against. Consulting a good dictionary might be a good start for understanding the semantic difference.

3) Logically there can be no such proof. Nothing is ever 100% certain, unless it is an a priori universal truth (eg, all batchelors are unmarried men).

Probably not the answers for which you were hoping, but never mind.

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#134281 - 11/26/05 02:50 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Linguascelesta]
Annos_Satanas Offline


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Minnesota
It's good enough, Lingua, because I said exactly the same thing to him about #1. He came back to me with "Well, if you don't care, then why should you be living? If you don't care where the air has come from, why breathe it?"

I told him because I can, because I have the right to live. He replied with "Right from whom?" I replied with myself. I told him that I have my own rights to everything ~ Nobody can take anything away from me that I have been born with. And the only thing he came up with was "That's the most dumbest thing I've ever heard." And started laughing. A VERY annoying experience. He says that he's not trying to covert me or talk me into anything, but when I say I don't care about something, he says that I'm "trying to tell him that his opinion doesn't matter." Can you believe this crap?

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#134282 - 11/26/05 03:01 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
I can believe this crap. From what you say above, you've given perfectly reasonable answers to questions, and, like any true christian, your cousin is blinded to reason. There's meaning in the term "blind faith", you know. I would agree with Magister Rose, and suggest that you stop wasting your time trying; there's nothing to be gained from it. Just pity them in their own stupid little closed world, and be glad that you yourself are free of it.

Quote:

when I say I don't care about something, he says that I'm "trying to tell him that his opinion doesn't matter."




Point out that it's not telling him that his opinion doesn't matter. It's just telling him that his opinion doesn't matter to you.

But conversely, as a caveat... Don't expect your opinion, however valid and actually rational unlike his, to matter to him. As a christian he'll probably take an interest in it, and no matter what he says, it's his religious duty to try to convert you. So, as long as you remember that you are an intelligent Satanist and he is a herdling who doesn't get it, you'll be fine. It'll probably make for shorter discussions with him which will probably be beneficial to both of you.

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#134283 - 11/26/05 03:14 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
Quote:


I told him because I can, because I have the right to live. He replied with "Right from whom?" I replied with myself. I told him that I have my own rights to everything ~ Nobody can take anything away from me that I have been born with.[...]



I know I have the right to live because I am alive. Why would I be living if I had no right to live?

Maybe he should try to answer that.
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#134284 - 11/26/05 03:18 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Just think that there are worse people than your cousin, who will try to find the little detail behind details, just don't feed them... So yeah, cousin or not, just have no mercy on stupidity, and you should stop speaking with him about this.

Lambs don't understand the "Holy bible", lambs don't understand the "Satanic Bible", but will prefer the holy bible because it proposes them to be under a God.
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#134285 - 11/26/05 03:27 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Personally, I only debate with christians for entertainment when "in the mood". But don't think you can actually change them to think in a rational manner.
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#134286 - 11/26/05 03:29 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Quote:

#1. Where has everything come from?




This is a valid question. One that should keep any truly inquisitive mind wondering in the night. Most who claim to know the answer, however, would wish they didn't know if they ever were to truly know (even if it were the same answer they offer!)

Quote:

#2. He had brought up the topic of crusaders sometime during the debate.




Irrelevant, essentially.

Quote:

#3. When trying to use scientific facts, he constantly says that "Stop talking in religion, science is religion". Now, I know that Scientology is religion, but that doesn't make every scientist, and science believer a Scientologist.




Do you know what "Scientology" is (and isn't)? You're talking apples and oranges here.

Quote:

He's just one of those fanatics you want to beat the shit out of, but I would rather do it intellectually than physically.




When you think about it, it doesn't make sense to get mad at someone for being what they are (and choose to continue being). Save your time and energy for where it's worth it.
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#134287 - 11/26/05 03:36 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
1. There are many scientific explanations of the creation of the universe, and even some spititual ones that beat all Hell out of seven days 4000+ years. "Study,not worship."

2. There is certainly a difference between killing and murder, but doing it for God is murder. Killing people to save their souls is a catch-22 of epic proportions.

3. Science is not religion and anyone who says it is is too stupid to fully understand either. Stop trying to "teach a pig to sing." The guys is obviously a moron. Teaching Koko to sign is not a Satanic ambition.

Y~
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#134288 - 11/26/05 03:48 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Below, LinguaScelesta wrote:

Quote:

Point out that it's not telling him that his opinion doesn't matter. It's just telling him that his opinion doesn't matter to you.



Almost right.

The correct statement: The Christian shit-disturber's opinion does not matter. Period.


Annos_Satannas, Satanists know their limitations. Your questions make it clear that you are ill-equipped to debate your cousin. Leave him alone.

Go have sex or eat good food. Indulge in whatever makes you happy. Wasting time on an ingrate is stupid.

Stupidity is a Satanic sin.

Go, sir, and sin no more.


DarkWater

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#134289 - 11/26/05 03:56 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: DarkWater]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Quote:

Annos_Satannas, Satanists know their limitations.




A Satanist may know when they are out of their league (and not make a fool of themselves), which I think is what you are saying here, but as far as coming to an end of one's self ultimately, I know I have far to go before I get to that end...if there is one .
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#134290 - 11/26/05 04:00 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: DarkWater]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Your statement is correct, DarkWater, but there was nothing wrong with mine. Annos_Satanas was indeed not telling his cousin that said cousin's opinions didn't matter, and was indeed telling him that they didn't matter to him. I think your statement more usefully to the point, and my statement more usefully diplomatic Both true though.

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#134291 - 11/26/05 04:40 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
1) Pre-biotic Chemistry: the basic components of life (ribosomal peptide)have been made by simply giving mud an electric shock and leaving it over night. This has been tested in labs many times, and infact has been done for my chemistry class (in a Catholic Highschool).

2) It also says in his Bible by their Jesus to love thy enemy, do no harm to those who do not believe, but to pray for them. What the crusades did was against their own religious beliefs. it Doesn't matter what the Hebrew Bible says Christians are to follow their Christ's words. The new testiment was origionaly written in a form of Greek never in Hebrew, FYI.

3)There is actually no "fact" in science they don't go together. There is only theories. A theory can be tested, if the test fails to disrpove said theory repeatedly, it is said to be a reliable theory. However, if said theory has been tested and came out liable a thousands times, just one test that proves it wrong will conclude it as false. Many theories from religiouse people have been disproven time and time again through tests on them and on other theories. For example, the chemical reaction in the mud creating protien free RNA, which theory says turned into mycoplasma (similar to a virus but has no membrane) and evolved further. Singlecell organism evolution and selective breeding, are proof towards evolution theory.

You can arguw with this guy all you want, hs mind is made up and there is no way you can convince the guy.


Edited by tovasshi (11/26/05 04:49 PM)
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#134292 - 11/26/05 04:49 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Mr. Saturday Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 1334
Loc: USA
Why waste vital energy debating someone when there is no chance of pleasant conversation, let alone any resolution?

It's a common fact that you can't change the mind of someone who's mind is already made up.

Merely tell them you don't wish to debate the topic. They'll most likely try to goad you into a defensive stance by saying that you're incapable of answering. Either way, chuckle silently to yourself and walk way knowing that you have the upper hand over buffoons like this.
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#134293 - 11/26/05 04:50 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Caesar]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Quote:

A Satanist may know when they are out of their league (and not make a fool of themselves), which I think is what you are saying here...



Yes, Warlock, though I confess that many times I've donned the jester's hat and played the role perfectly. Learning from those experiences is one of the ways I've discovered the boundaries of my current abilities.


Quote:

...but as far as coming to an end of one's self ultimately, I know I have far to go before I get to that end...if there is one.



In my case, that "end"--if by this you mean a time when one becomes master of all and bound by nothing--is far beyond the horizon. But that's fine. It's the journey that matters most. Everything else is secondary.


DarkWater

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#134294 - 11/26/05 04:55 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

You can arguw with this guy all you want, hs mind is made up and there is no way you can convince the guy.




Well, I suppose you could hypnotise him if you were that bothered. It is not a difficult art to learn, if you have any aptitude for it. To undo a whole belief system would take quite a concentrated effort, though.

Unless you're Derren Brown (atheist, psychologist, cynic, entertainer, hypnotist, general evil little twat but we love him), he did that recently, got a load of atheists in a room, chatted with them in a friendly manner for a bit, then asked them their religious beliefs again, and a few were now agnostic, unsure of themselves. He continued to chat with them, and a little while later he had some christians and some agnostics. After the show, Derren's voiceover stated: "All participants were fully briefed afterwards, and I returned them all to whatever situation their faith, or lack thereof, was to start with". Look here, if you're interested.

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#134295 - 11/26/05 05:08 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Linguascelesta]
DarkWater Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 784
Loc: SinCity
Quote:

I think your statement more usefully to the point, and my statement more usefully diplomatic Both true though.



Indeed, LinguaScelesta. My words were not meant as a jab at you. Sometimes it is good to be diplomatic. Other times, however, a point is best made without affectation or delicacy. Pour it in a mug, slide it down the bar, and let the chap drink it as is. No ice. No napkin. No mint afterwards.

I usually prefer diplomacy, though sometimes...


DarkWater

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#134296 - 11/26/05 05:19 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
"1) Pre-biotic Chemistry: the basic components of life (ribosomal peptide)have been made by simply giving mud an electric shock and leaving it over night. This has been tested in labs many times, and infact has been done for my chemistry class (in a Catholic Highschool)."


That for sure doesn't explain the whole thing.
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#134297 - 11/26/05 05:33 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Assabrah]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

That for sure doesn't explain the whole thing




No... The question was not "How did life begin?", but "Where has everything come from?"

A much bigger, and even less relevant, question.

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#134298 - 11/26/05 05:39 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
1-Where did everything came from?

This question is based on the pre-assumption that "everything" was somewhere else and somehow moved to its present location. Since "everything" is "everywhere" is couldn't come form any place. This is a common question Christians ask, because in their minuscule minds the only possible answer is that God made "everything". I always answer that Everything didn't come from anyone, it was always here.

2-The Crusades...

I find estrange that he (The Christian) was the one bringing this up to the conversation. In any case, we all know all wars are fought over power and control of territory. The excuses (We fight for God, We fight for Democracy, blah, blah...) are just propaganda slogans for the consumption of the herd. Everyone wanted to control the commerce routes to the Orient, Christians and Arabs fought over this. That was the Crusades all about. There has never been a "religious war" in this world; it’s always about the money.

3-Science is a Religion.

If someone tells you that, you know he is too stupid to understand the simplest concepts, so maintaining the discussion is pointless. And boring! I recommend choosing "sports" or "which babe has the hottest ass" as more appropriate topics of discussion.
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#134299 - 11/26/05 06:54 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
1) Research the Big Bang. Read Stephen Hawking and Stephen Jay Gould for elaboration. Heck, even research other creation myths. I remember I had a nice book as a child called "In the Beginning" that told various creation myths.

2) Your cousin is being a weasel, but his argument is common. Google gave me: http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/naturalism.html and http://www.egoplace.com/aristotle/aa-ethics.htm

If your cousin is going to play the game this way, I suggest you look to the New Testament for Jesus' assorted teachings...do unto others...love thy neighbor....what ye do to the least of your brethren you do to me....and so on and so forth. If you can go through the backdoor and prove that Jesus doesn't want you whacking people, period, you can potentially gain ground in the debate.

3) Your cousin is repeating baseless rhetoric. Science involves learning about the natural world through observation and systematic, procedural testing and re-testing. Religion is meant to answer metaphysical questions about our origin, our purpose, and our final destination.

In a sense, science can become a religion---meaning, it can be adopted by people as a way of acquiring a sense of ultimate purpose and direction---as can television or hockey or whatever. But, this is not the standard definition of religion, and you should be careful about bringing this up around your cousin because I know from personal experience that they LOVE to take this loophole and run with it.

3b) Scientology is totally different. Scientology is multi-million dollar scheme created by a clever science fiction author. Scientologists believe that our sad feelings are created by dead alien ghosts called thetans who were genocidally blown up by an evil alien overlord named Xenu several million years ago and then brainwashed, and then attached to us.

3c) I suggest you research evolution. Look for a hominid named Lucy. Read some Richard Dawkins. Look for a book called the Seven Daughters of Eve.

But, FYI, don't expect any miracles in the debate. It's practically impossible to pry a fundie, sheep, or idealogue from their paradigm, and they will try even the most absurd mental and physical flips and jumps in order to avoid giving up their point of view.
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#134300 - 11/26/05 07:04 PM I wonder... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

#1. He came back to me with "Well, if you don't care, then why should you be living? If you don't care where the air has come from, why breathe it?"




Damn.. This is getting creepy... Well tell him : "Do you see that grass created by your so called God? Well, why do you smoke it??!" ... This guy has a big mental problem...

I didn't know that people had to understand "where the air could come from", to be allowed to breathe it.. At this moment, he started to have a lack of arguments I think.


Just give up. a lot just need to believe because they are afraid to die. They would all bang their head knowing that there's no god above their brainless head... Remember that God = prozak for people like that.


Attachments
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Edited by Assabrah (11/26/05 07:10 PM)
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#134301 - 11/26/05 07:36 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Assabrah]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

Remember that God = prozak for people like that.




Haha. I like your analogy -- so true.

Recently with class we went to visit an institution for delinquent adolescents to do a research on medications... we spent the whole day there... during this whole day I think they had to pray something like 4 times, in between meals & activities... not all of the kids were on medication but all had to pray... so curious little me asks the staff there, why did they all have to pray so many times a day considering the institution isn´t even religious, to which they replied that if they didn´t give them any God to pray for, they would all go completely crazy beyond treatment possibilities. Doped Be!

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#134302 - 11/26/05 08:38 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Linguascelesta]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1415
Loc: Banana, Canada
No, but its a start, if you can understand basic chemistry you can move on to bigger things. You start with more recent things and then move your way backwards.

You start with "how did life begin?" then you move to "How did the earth form?" (cosmic dust and gravitational pull) then "how did the particles come into exhistance?" then you would have to go into particle theory and how everything is made up of energy and nothing is actually solid. The you go back further and ask "where did that energy come from?" Then you have to go and look up quantum mechanics and read and learn a lot of math. Something to do with a great static nothingness with some kind of magnetic force caused a movement somewhere that was realy fast and spun to the point of creating a neutrino or a dozen.

The point is, there is no one simple answer to the ultimate question. The answer to the beggining of everything is a giant math equation waiting to be answered. (no Douglas Adams references please).

It is easier for these people to simply say "God did it" than to open up a book by Michio Kaku.

The next time he asks you where did everything come from, and then starts going off about God, ask him "where did God come from" and tell him to stop using religion to explain it, Christianity is a religion.


Edited by tovasshi (11/26/05 08:39 PM)
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#134303 - 11/26/05 08:53 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: tovasshi]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
I appreciate your answer.

but see, christians have found a way to skip studies, they have gathered all in one word : God
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#134304 - 11/26/05 09:31 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
Don't bother.

There is no point in debating christianity.

You won't change him anymore than he will change you.

I suggest debating who'll make it to the super bowl this year instead.

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#134305 - 11/26/05 10:12 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
for your question #1, I have noticed that the big thing with the
Christians these days is geplacing "god" with "Jesus".

For instance, instead of "god created the universe" like they
used to, I hear: "The creator of the universe, Jesus Christ..."

The Christ-heads in my town use code-words such as
"science-types" and "darwinist" to mean non-Christians.

Ask your cousin if he believes that babys are delivered by,
storks and that god put dinosaurs into the fossil record just
to confuse us.

Then, like in the game gomoku, use his strategy against him;
surround him with logic and crush his puny mind into dust.

Or, just don't waste your precious time with dirtbag sheeple.
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#134306 - 11/27/05 04:21 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Assabrah]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>Just give up. a lot just need to believe because they are afraid to die.

Actually, Mr. Assabrah, I am bit afraid of death.

The difference is not fearing death, but seeking solutions to make death more rewarding.

The truth is that these nut-jobs are afraid of living.
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"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#134307 - 11/27/05 04:32 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Discipline]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Death... For me, I don't even think of fearing it now. For at least the past five years I've been working out ways to live forever, by statistics, I have another 49 to get things sorted, so I waste no time in this regard. But because I consider it of great importance to survive, and as a point of NLP / Lesser Magic I always focus on what I want rather than what I don't, I think a lot about immortality and very little about death, so fear grows very small and insignificant, as my knowledge and power grows.

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#134308 - 11/27/05 04:43 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Discipline]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
I agree with you, and understand.

But I was focusing on the Christian's fear, which is pretty a proof that they need to convince people about the existence of God, because they want to convince themselves.

A Satanist brings everyday a new stone, and strengthen his "Ego Foundation". When he will die, he will leave on earth another reflect of what life really is, and people who loved him will remember this, and this is a key to immortality.

But Christians don't wish to live here, they think they have to suffer as "Sinners" all a life to maybe reach that promised land...But the doubt is on of course...And they'll never said that this is where their faith fails... So they are afraid to die, knowing that maybe, they should have taken adventage of this only life.


Edited by Assabrah (11/27/05 04:47 PM)
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#134309 - 11/27/05 04:46 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Linguascelesta]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Let us not stray from the topic.

I will say that I have spent much time and energy securing a long future for myself.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#134310 - 11/27/05 04:48 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Assabrah]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Very true, nicely said.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#134311 - 11/27/05 06:40 PM Re: I wonder... [Re: Discipline]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

The difference is not fearing death, but seeking solutions to make death more rewarding.

The truth is that these nut-jobs are afraid of living.



Yes, this is the paradox. They fear death, so they try to make it more rewarding, but in the process they are afraid to live their lives just in case doing something in this life will make death unbearable. How sad. I would much rather live my life to the fullest now!


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#134312 - 11/27/05 09:03 PM A Third Side view... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

#1. Where has everything come from?




How do you know that everything hasn't always just been here?

If there was no "creation" then there was no "creator".

Quote:

difference between killing and murder.




Use a dictionary.

Quote:

science is religion




Use the same dictionary.

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#134313 - 11/27/05 11:00 PM Re: A Third Side view... [Re: Nemo]
Achilles Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 223
Straight and to the point. I like it

Why does everyone assume there was a creation in the first place? Could it be just the human brain trying to make sense of an alien concept such as infinity?

If someone came to me with an xian agenda and used the argument, "Where has everything come from?"

My reply would be, "Which creation story were you referring to again?"
_________________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

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#134314 - 11/28/05 10:56 AM Even more concerning "Why Bother?" [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
When having this conversation, did you ever even ask yourself what your goal was?

Have you yet?

Did you have a goal, or were you baited into it?

Was your goal to "be right"? Do you require such a thing? To be seen as "correct" in the eyes of your cousin, who doesn't even have the discrimination to realize that science and religion are different things?

What if you won? What would you have then? Was it your goal to win and cause your cousin to do something? To lose his faith? To feel stupid? To want to learn more about science or Satanism?

Don't forget, Satanists enjoy the finer things in life.

What do you enjoy?
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#134315 - 11/28/05 11:33 AM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
#1. Where has everything come from?

So. Disasters are not fun for anyone. You can still live your life like a creator without acknowledging where we came from.


#2. If you want to have the indulgence of arguing with a xian just make sure that you can never change his mind by argument alone (atleast it is hard for me to imagine). Just be careful of not beating him ( ).

#3. Religion boils down to science without productive self-deceit. Tell him to go read a college text book about the bible. There is a book called Understanding The Bible by a guy name Stephen L. Harris. That helped me out a lot when I was in college. He might understand a lot more about your solid and life-loving perspective.


Edited by Steve1 (11/28/05 12:20 PM)
_________________________

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#134316 - 11/28/05 12:38 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>I've encountered a few questions that I can't seem to
>>answer in a Satanic sense, since I've never encountered
>>them or even had any interest in thinking about them.

I think it's good for Satanists to at least know how to stand for themselves in a debate. It's a good skill to sharpen now and then, and I enjoy a healthy study of logic and fallacies.

However, as others have pointed out, you do run the risk of getting your mental energy being sucked by these people, and giving attention to attention-starved masochists. Usually the best move is to not give your opinion when you're not asked, and not to be like a solipist projecting your understandings on somebody who doesn't have the same congnitive skills as you (sound like familiar "rules" and "sins"?).

>>#1. Where has everything come from?

If you want answers on biology, abiogenesis, evolution, or cosmology, then I say pick up a book on one of those subjects. Unfortunately, people are stupid and don't want to make the effort to read a book that goes beyond layman's terms, so they take comfort in the ignorant position of "a big invisible man did it". In any case, evidence overwhelmingly rules out the idea of people being made out of clay and ribs.

Or, along the lines of what Nemo said: ask who created this "creator". If he answers "Well he always was here", then why can't we assume the energy and physical laws of the universe were always here? Similarly, if he argues that humans are "too complicated" to have arisen by natural processes, then surely a deity would be far too complex to have existed naturally.

>>He said there's a difference between killing and murder.

I'd agree with him.

>>"Stop talking in religion, science is religion".

Neither of you obviously know how science works. Look at the steps of the scientific method. Now compare that to the concept of "revelation" and "dogma".

>>Now, I know that Scientology is religion,

That's as relevant as bringing up Marxism in a conversation about Groucho, Chico, and Harpo.

Suggested links:

- Common theism arguments
- Logic & Fallacies
- Archive/FAQ to talk.origins


"Debate is an art form. It is about the winning of arguments. It is not about the discovery of truth. There are certain rules and procedures to debate that really have nothing to do with establishing fact [...] Some of those rules are: never say anything positive about your own position because it can be attacked, but chip away at the weaknesses in your opponent's position."

- Stephen Jay Gould
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#134318 - 11/29/05 09:26 PM Re: Infinity [Re: Achilles]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Could it be just the human brain trying to make sense of an alien concept such as infinity?




Infinity is easy. It is merely a reification of the experience of asking, "What's past that?"

It is imagining a beginning and ending that is the hard one.

Here we stand at the end of time and I ask, "What happens next?"

Here we stand at the beginning of time and I ask, "What happened before that?"


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#134319 - 11/30/05 01:06 AM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: ]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
It doesn't matter where the universe came from, because it's here, and you can do what you want with it now.

It doesn't matter? Are you aware of how many billions of dollars are spent to fund particle colliders around the globe (CERN, for example) which are trying to find the answer to that very question?

And, if particle physicists are able to find an answer to the question, do you realize what implications and possible opportunities could arise?

It may not matter to you specifically, but I wouldn't say that the question isn't worthy of exploration.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#134320 - 11/30/05 09:55 AM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Mason_Rust]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
Mason, is that the science teacher in you talking again? Whatever it is, I have to agree with it because only with research in this area can we find out what makes our world tick. Curiosity about science has sparked every invention ever made from the combustion engine to a frickin pocket rocket. It does matter because knowing this information can lead to great discoveries. If we'd accepted anything as "just there," nothing would ever get done. I didn't accept "God" simply because my dad said it was there. I discovered my own path in life. I don't think we should accept the universe as "just there" either. We're supposed to study it because it's human nature to do so, and because it can benefit us. I'm sure there are some bad things that have come from being curious about the universe. For the most part, I think our tendency to thirst for knowledge has been a good thing though.

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#134321 - 11/30/05 06:43 PM What's Next [Re: Nemo]
Isabel23 Offline
CoS Magistra

Registered: 12/17/02
Posts: 2041
Magister Nemo,

Here we stand at the end of time and I ask, "What happens next?"

Well, you sit down and have dinner at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, of course!
_________________________
Isabel
CoS Magistra

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#134322 - 11/30/05 08:51 PM Pick up lines for doomsday. [Re: Isabel23]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

Well, you sit down and have dinner at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, of course!




And then after that do I say, "Excuse me, but what are doing after the end of the universe?"

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#134323 - 11/30/05 08:59 PM Re: A Third Side view... [Re: Nemo]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
Quote:


How do you know that everything hasn't always just been here?




My beginning is not, nor end cannot be...
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#134324 - 12/01/05 12:50 PM Re: Infinity [Re: Nemo]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>It is imagining a beginning and ending that is the hard one. [...]
>>Here we stand at the beginning of time and I ask, "What
>>happened before that?"

Personally, I like Stephen Hawking's analogy: "It's like asking what's happening 50 kilometers north of the North Pole".
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#134325 - 12/01/05 01:57 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
Where has everything come from? There are several theories on this subject. Education is the only way you can "beat" someone like this at his own game. If it's really important for you to prove this guy wrong, then do some research. It might be more work than you think is worth doing, and you might find that even after you've proven him dead wrong, he'll still think he's right. Not because he has any evidence to back up his claims, but because he "feels" it. He "knows" God is there. He can "feel" the holy spirit inside of him. There's no evidence to back that up either, but he'll insist that it's there anyway. It's damn pointless in my opinion. Just try to disprove his feelings and you'll discover something that's truly futile. Personally, I wouldn't bother. If you need something from him though, just remind him of his tendency for "Good ol' Fashioned Christian Kindness." Don't feel bad about manipulating him in this way. When it comes to this kind of human interaction, there are no unwilling victims. If you really think that "converting" anyone is worth it, then start with some Earth Science books, and maybe some Astronomy. These particular sciences can give you a good foundation for your cause (however ridiculously pointless it may be).

Is killing the same as murder? Of course it is. It doesn't matter what your motivation may be for killing anyone. If you look murder up in the Thesaurus, I'm sure killing wouldn't be too far behind in the list of suitable synonyms. Please remember that the guys on the other side (in regard to the Crusades) were also fighting in the name of their own God. They were killing the Christians because they thought God wanted them to do it just as well as the Christians did. History was written by the winners. Ponder that point. Murder can be deemed acceptable in different cases by different people due to the circumstances. Though these cases can be deemed justifiable by a justice, they're still murder cases, and are brought forth and tried as such in the court system. It is, ultimately the same thing no matter how you slice it. Your motivations for doing something like this should be examined meticulously. You don't just go around killing people for no reason, do you? The Christians thought they had a good reason for killing so many people. You might think you have reasons to kill at times in your life. That doesn't mean you'd be right to do it, and it certainly doesn't mean a court of law will grant you amnesty based on your motivations for this crime. If you have a good lawyer in a murder case, and the jury and judge both know you did it, you can still be exonerated based on motivation for the crime. Whether the crime is deemed justifiable or not, you'd still be a murderer, and you would be one for the rest of your life. No matter how much you protested and cried that the crime was justifiable, you still did it. The Christians have used the bible to justify their murderous ways, and, I think, in the right court room on the right day, they would also be exonerated. I, however, as an aspiring prosecuting attorney, would definitely look into trying the perpetrators as fiercly (but also as fairly) as possible.

Is there proof that civilizations didn't start in one place? Again, look to the science section of your local library for these things. I would suggest that you do this to quell your own curiosity, however, and not to beat your cousin. Like I said before, he probably won't end up on your side no matter what you say to him. Even if a comet fell from the sky, and every projectory piece landed on top of a church, thereby destroying every church, the poor boy wouldn't think that a higher power than his God wanted to abolish slave religions. He would think that God was mad at him. This would make his faith in the asinine prophecies contained in his bible all the stronger. I personally think that your motivations for solving these conundrums are going to leave you even more frustrated. You should ask these questions because you want to know. Pissing off your cousin should at the very most be only a pleasant side effect of your studies.

I've run into a few people like this in my life, and one of them is my brother-in-law. I hate the way he brainwashes my nephews with his Christian non-points, but they are his children, and my hands are tied in the situation. (If they come to me later on in life and ask for my version of the "truth," however, I won't hesitate to tell them) Instead of arguing back and forth about religion, he and I talk about things we have in common instead. Aside from his religion, he's a pretty cool guy, and I'd hate to have judged him based solely on his choice of religion (even though I really think it was a stupid choice) without ever getting to know the real him. We like the same music, we're both into creating tattoo art, and as long as the both of us are happy with our lives, there's no reason for us to try to convert one another. If you meet someone you know you'll get into an argument about this topic with should you bring it up, then DON'T BRING IT UP. I don't go around advertising myself as a Satanist (except for here ) because most of the time stating my choice of religion will just piss people off. What good is any belief structure if it does nothing but piss off all your friends? If someone asks me (I ALWAYS invite the Jehovah's Witnesses into my house. It's fun to watch them stand there with their jaws dropped when they hear what I have to say. In this case, stating straight out what my religion is is okay because THEY ASKED FOR IT), I tell them. If they ask me to explain, I explain. There's no reason to go out on the town begging for someone to burn you at the stake. My advice would be that you just find something else to talk about (like I did with my brother-in-law), or just leave the guy alone. He's a Christian, after all, he's confused enough already without your help! I hope the two of you can iron out your differences, or at least find a way to ignore them so they don't mess up your friendship.

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#134326 - 12/01/05 06:02 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
He said there's a difference between killing and murder. I don't think so. Am I right? They both end in death.

This slightly off-topic to the main theme of the thread, but wanted to say something about it.

Murder and killing is not the same, even if both end on death. It all depends on context.

If someone attacks me and I clearly see my life is in danger, I wouldn’t hesitate in ending his. That would be definitely killing... but not exactly murder.

Many things end in death, but you can’t compare the death or an innocent man who was stabbed by a burglar with the death of a terrorist who was shot by the police before he had time to detonate his bomb.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#134327 - 12/01/05 07:16 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Old_Pig]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
In the context of legal jargon, the degrees of murder vary based on motivation for the crime committed, and whether or not the crime was planned. Would it be correct for me to assume that you equate the word "killing" with the word "manslaughter?" If so, then I can see how you could equate the two.
Just as a side note, the state of Texas has a pretty interesting law on its books about crimes of passion. The passion law states that if you fly into a rage and kill someone, then you may be ruled as temporarily insane, and, therefore, not responsible for the crime. I just thought it was an interesting law. It's interesting to think that if I ever fly into a fit of rage in the state of Texas, I could be considered insane. Wow.

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#134328 - 03/04/06 02:14 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
Exanimus Offline


Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 21
Loc: NC
The best advice I could give you
Read the holy bible. If you constantly find your self in religious debates with christians, it is good to know your enemy.

The christian believes in the "judgement" written of in the revelation of jhon, so no matter what you do through out your life, you could repent at the last moment.

wouldent it be within satans character to repent,so nobody goes to hell. that would certanily throw a stick in the spokes of gods unicycle.

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#134329 - 03/05/06 02:12 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Exanimus]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Exanimus wrote. <<< wouldent it be within satans character to repent,so nobody goes to hell. that would certanily throw a stick in the spokes of gods unicycle.>>>

Great Point.
In The Satanic Bible, Doktor LaVey speaks of a tribe of Devil worshipers that do the very thing you are speaking. Page 43 The Satanic Bible.

The only thing is though. I have nothing to repent.
Who would I repent them to, myself.
Why?
I love all of my so called "sins."
Hail Satan!
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#134330 - 03/05/06 08:23 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Lust]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
Quote:


The only thing is though. I have nothing to repent.
Who would I repent them to, myself.
Why?
I love all of my so called "sins."
Hail Satan!



I don’t repent anything either.

I have no regrets. Everything that I have done or that has happened to me has led me to be who and where I am today. And I LOVE who and where I am today in my life!
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#134331 - 03/06/06 07:05 AM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Annos_Satanas]
ElJago Offline


Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 427
Loc: Northumberland, England
Maybe as you get older (you don't seem to be very old) you will come to the realisation that most people (not all) are trying to sell you something. Whether it be a product, an ideaology, a belief, or a prejudice.

Also you may come to realise that practitioners/believers of most of the worlds major religions can find a way to excuse almost anything. Such as the vatican excusing/covering up the behaviour of child molesting priests, islam fundamentalists excusing the behaviour of people blowing themselves up in crowded shopping centres, or jewish governments excusing the use of tank shells against children throwing stones.

The level of hypocrisy and self delusion of religions such as christianity is there for all to see. Maybe one day you'll learn to treat anything anyone pontificating at you says with a large pinch of salt.
_________________________
Man: An animal so lost in rapturous comtemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be - Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary.

Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said, "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Lewis Carroll, Through the looking glass.

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#134332 - 03/07/06 01:47 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: MagisterRose]
Euphoria Offline


Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 342
Loc: 1/4 mile and 9 seconds away!
Quote:


As for the Crusades, God told the Pope that it was OK to kill Muslims.




Hasn't he just had the same conversation with George Bush?

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#134333 - 03/07/06 02:20 PM Re: God talking to political leaders. [Re: Euphoria]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Nothing like the one He is having with the heads of Iran!

Compared to them George Bush is an athiest!

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#134334 - 03/07/06 02:31 PM Re: A few annoying answers... [Re: Barb]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

I don’t repent anything either.

I have no regrets. Everything that I have done or that has happened to me has led me to be who and where I am today. And I LOVE who and where I am today in my life!




What if we're all just mutant hominids whose organic self-preserving brains are nothing more than evolution's greatest illusion creating tool! From whence come distractive notions like purpose and meaning designed to keep you from going completely insane!
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#134335 - 03/07/06 02:42 PM Re: God talking to political leaders. [Re: Nemo]
Euphoria Offline


Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 342
Loc: 1/4 mile and 9 seconds away!
He moves in mysterious ways!!!

(The head of Iran, not god.)

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#134336 - 03/07/06 02:52 PM Re: A Third Side view... [Re: Nemo]
SubOptimo Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 474
Loc: Germany
Laughing out loud rotating of the floor with tears in my eyes

'Breathe, I just need to breathe...' - Me



-----------------------------------------

For everyone who probably didn't get it:
Yes, I think this is funny.

Ah, and my opinion:
He will experience the force of natural selection, no need to beat the shit out of him.

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#134337 - 03/21/06 08:46 PM Re: A few annoying questions... [Re: Barb]
Buffy Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 68
Loc: Mackay- Australia
I agree with Demi on this one. <<I think your better arguing over who's going to win what concerning sport. Hell put bets on it.
From personal experience my aunty (who is a devout christian who smokes weed and preaches gods will) used to argue about this sort of thing. The thing is it doen't get anywhere. And well if if's a dear family member or friend who is close to you, agree to disagree. The thing that matters is how much you actally care about these people, and for them find their own paths through their own mistakes and experiences. At the end of the day if they are smart enough they will come to understand that people that actually care about them is what matters.
_________________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment.

The most successful people are those who are good at plan B.

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