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#140011 - 01/12/06 10:25 AM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Zanarath]
Dark_Adept Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 884
Loc: High Hades
The only thing that seems to separate Satanism from Atheism is Magick. Atheism has always seemed vacuous to me even when I was a child and seeking out answers to all the tragedies that befell me from day to day, week to week etc. Atheists in my opinion are just as bad as Xians in that they are so adamant on affirming their disbelief in a god that they claim doesn't exist. Therein lies the funniest contradiction in the Atheists credo that I always catch them on when they scoff at my beliefs, should they "discover" what I am. But this was years ago, I've matured out of the overt "goth" stage and prefer to divulge unto those closest to me, should I feel it be necessary. I'd go onto Agnostics, which I apply the epithet "castrated Atheists" but that's a whole other thread.
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#140012 - 01/12/06 03:52 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Dark_Adept]
Achilles Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 223
I don't see any beliefs in Satanism and I do not see anything much different between Atheism and Satanism. So why would they scoff at you? An Atheist rejects the idea of a higher or spiritual power. There is no proof of the supernatural, no matter how "complex" life is. That isn't an excuse for gods up in the clouds. Even if there was, why do we care? The only difference is that we see the subjective as the most important thing, they don't. We realize that religious and ceremonial rituals are a necessary part of life. It's been there throughout human history with religion. Atheists reject religion all together.
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#140013 - 01/12/06 05:05 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Achilles]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Most atheists have a problem with magic and ritual, most of them are also on a liberal/egalitarian side of the spectrum that would find Satanic ideas of elitism and stratification objectionable.
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#140014 - 01/12/06 05:17 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Zanarath]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
When most people think of atheism, they think of it as the disbelief in or the denial of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god. By that standard, we are indeed atheists.
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#140015 - 01/12/06 09:11 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: HellofallHells]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Hellofallhells...that's where I was coming from. I realize that there are a lot of traits that people who identify themselves as atheists...some, many, the more outspoken ones?...not sure...may share. Many of them I do not identify with. I do tend to be a rationalist, and have a habit of analyzing thins ad infinitem; but, that alone is cold and barren. I am also very passionate, with strong emotions; and, I am a sensualist. Those are the things that responded so well the first time I read The Satanic Bible.
The other responses here have given me things to think about, all the same. Interesting thread, this one.
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#140016 - 01/12/06 11:55 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
blasphemy Offline


Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 70
Loc: NY, US
Of what I've seen and read, athiests are simply people who agree in a dis-belief in any higher power. Many try and group athiests together and try and form athiestic norms or some type of label out of the term. Its more of an adjective. I think that a Satanist can be a athiest independent of his belief in ritual and magick. Most Satanists that I've met who admit to performing black masses and certain rituals usually think they are posessed or try to talk to Satan directly. I don't consider these people Satanists. I consider them something closer to the Temple of Set.

The Satanic Bible is clear on the concept that god was created by man and to follow the creation of some group of zealots, manipulators and stoners is idiotic. This is why I don't follow any monothiestic-- or thiestic in general-- ideals that I was raised on. People associate ammorality with athiests, and most link idol worship to Satanists. Athiesm has no connection to morals, and if you look at Satanism from its philosophical point of view, it is a strict moral code that one without a belief in god could conform to. Whether or not he believes in himself is a self esteem issue; whether he feels comfortable performing rituals/magick is a comfort issue; whether he wants to join a community of like minded individuals is up to him; but there is nothing that states that an athiest cannot be a Satanist. It seems sensible that if someone can take the time to consiously not believe in god, he's made the first step towards progress.
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#140017 - 01/13/06 10:24 AM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Priestess Palmer]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>They believe that 'god' is a big man, with a
>long silvery beard and robes, who sits on a
>cloud with Elvis listening to harp music. If
>that's what god is, then I am an Atheist.
>[Widow]

By that reasoning, just about all Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Jews are "atheists" too. When was the last theist you met who actually visualized God as you described? Obviously, there's more to our rejection of theism than seeing the absurdity in the various medieval paintings and other stereotypical views.

>>The only thing that seems to separate Satanism
>>from Atheism is Magick. [Behemoth90731]

Somebody was going to post the following line anyway, so here it goes:
"Those who spell 'magic' with a 'k', aren't." - Anton LaVey

>>I do not see anything much different between
>>Atheism and Satanism. [Achilles]

Um, you DID read the second half of The Satanic Bible, right?
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#140018 - 01/13/06 10:43 AM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Zanarath]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>Why is Satanism so often labelled atheistic?

Because one of the most couldn't-be-more-wrong stereotypes of Satanism is the idea that Satanists worship or otherwise explicitly communicate with a deity called Satan. Saying we're "atheists" is the most blunt way of shooting down that notion.

In the strictest sense of the word, atheism means nothing more than "without belief in deity". You can make all these arguments about how we view "Satan" as representing things that are quite real and what not, but the bottom line is that we fit that definition of "atheist" as far as rebutting the stereotype is concerned.

Personally, I refer to Satanism as non-theistic. I do this because of the different shades of meaning that "atheist" has accrued. The definition has been misapplied to mean things like "one who has no religion", and/or somebody who immediately and explicitly rejects ALL notions of metaphysics, rejects all ritual, etc. Satanism obviously doesn't fit with these notions. The Satanic Bible also points out the whole "Christian atheist" thing too.

You do bring up a point though, and it's something that I talk a little about in an upcoming Not Like Most article: just because atheists reject most other religions, doesn't make them our "friends"! They're not our allies. They can be just as anti-Satanic as Christians most times.
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#140019 - 01/13/06 05:04 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Zanarath]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Satanism as I see it is basically Atheism + Ritual. The fact I’m my own God doesn’t make me a Theist.

I have no problem at all if people call me an Atheist, because I am one. What annoys me is most people don’t know what the word Atheism means.

I have found most people expect an Atheist to be someone who is angry at God. I don’t hate God anymore than I hate Mickey Mouse. Those are the ones who ask you “What did God do to you that made you stop believing in him”. Obviously the answer would be “He did nothing at all… he doesn’t exist”

The other common misconception is that an Atheist is someone who doesn’t accept any kind philosophy or theory of any kind. I really hate when they say “You believe in Evolution, so you are not an atheist because “Evolution” is your religion”.

Of course, these kinds of idiot’s are not to be taken seriously.
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#140020 - 01/13/06 05:22 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Zanarath]
chandler Offline


Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 41
Loc: TX, US
I think you make a very good point that a lot of modern Satanists should heed. I don't consider myself an atheist or a theist, because of the dishevelling effect it has on conversations with your normal, run-of-the-mill pink bastard, who just believes what he's told, whether he's a Satanist or a Christian. I sometimes identify myself as a religio-philosophical Satanist, because of my deep resonation with the teachings of Aleister Crowley, and my adherence to my personal concept of Satan. I believe Satan can be invoked. That is enough for me. I do not need to know where the power came from, only that I have it. I do not consider myself an agnostic, because I would have to make a conscious, limiting choice about what information to consider valid. And I have support for many different, contradictory stances to take toward authentication of deities. A lot of it depends on how you define belief or knowledge, your epistemological method if you will.
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#140021 - 01/13/06 08:00 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Old_Pig]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Quote:

Satanism as I see it is basically Atheism + Ritual. The fact I’m my own God doesn’t make me a Theist.

I have no problem at all if people call me an Atheist, because I am one. What annoys me is most people don’t know what the word Atheism means.

I have found most people expect an Atheist to be someone who is angry at God.




Most people also think all atheists are exactly the same. This guy at work keeps saying, "You're not an atheist."
I say, "There are no gods. What do you call that?"
He says, "You're not an asshole, and you don't try to spend all your time convincing people god doesn't exist."
I tell him I also don't spend time tryiong to convince Santa Clause doesn't exist. Then I just let him think what he wants.
And, how can you be angry at someone who did nothing to you, because they don't exist? But, you said that...
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#140022 - 01/13/06 09:37 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: crackergirl]
chandler Offline


Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 41
Loc: TX, US
Quote:

"Deism is defined in Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1941, as: "[From Latin Deus, God.Deity] The doctrine or creed of a Deist." And Deist is defined in the same dictionary as: "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."





You make excellent points comparing Satanism to Deism. In fact I am of a bent to insist that Satanism is the true American religion, though the United States has been perverted and greatly ruined by Christian voters without the lightest notion of what this nation was founded on. And of course, how could we expect a bunch of puritanical pacifists to maintain a civilian militia to keep tabs on the government? It has operated in secret so long, manipulating institutions and developing weapons of mass destruction, that militias are obsolete, even though they are still prescribed by the Bill of Rights. I blame the depravity of the current state on Christianity.

Then we also have foreign bodies to worry about, whose governments have sunk even more deeply into esoteric centralization that we supposedly need tyranny to protect ourselves from them? When will the fucking UN put a stop to this mess? Or aliens or something.

But the definition you give is very similar indeed to Satanism in its ideal state, that of pure reason, and oddly enough the terms "deist" and "theist" are linguistically identical, though that was an expedient for intellectuals to survive as heretics, and do something sensible with their lives at the time. Thomas Jefferson, I believe it was, described the Bible as a "dunghill", which just excites my patriotism, far more than any Abrahamic garbage the military makes me recite from time to time. Or the "Pledge of Allegiance".

But anyway, a global miltia is not yet obsolete, just a national one. That's why I'm all about internet and world government, and communication technology, and free speech (not just for Americans, but even for German and Albanian Holocaust Revisionists and Klansmen who barely know how to spell).

I think the social aspect of Satanism, trying to make a positive difference, by eliminating the Christian influence over our children's education and the community, is more important than whether or not we define ourselves as Atheists or Theists. That is just the simple-minded diversion of stereotyping oneself to gain a social context instead of imposing oneself as an individual. If Satanism were really nothing more than being an individual, if it had no purpose as an antithetical, Hegelian solution to the Christians and their schizophrenia, their "divine voices" that sputter from their mouths and through their heads, their trash dominating politics, the media, the law, and education, then we might as well have called it "individualism", which was a preexisting philosophy. Satanism is a proud tradition of heresies carried down through generations throughout all of civilized, literate, recorded history, though LaVey's corporation may have been the first openly Satanic bunch in a while. The Hellfire Club you mention, was a powerful conspiracy that made great changes in our institutions, by recruiting truly elite members, who could impose their will from a level of policy, in synchronization with other members sharing a common, intelligent agenda, instead of what "God" told them that morning. We need to remember our roots, and stop using terminology that was imposed on us, masquerading as important, by Christian theologians, and the atheist victims of Christian propoganda. My point is that, as Satanists, our wills should be to act, to create "works", instead of reacting to the question of faith that Christianity has traumatized so many with.
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#140023 - 01/14/06 10:34 AM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Achilles]
Dark_Adept Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 884
Loc: High Hades
Paraphrase "Why would Atheists scoff at you?"

[[ Most of the atheists that I've met and spoken to on the internet alike have superinflated egos regarding anything that they consider remotely "spiritual." Without knowing it, they are subscribing to the dogma of the RHP. They scoff because they assert that because Satanists use that epithet in and of itself makes us merely inverse Xians. Of course that's ignorant, but as I stated prior, these are the same dross that insist that they don't believe in a god that their very "anti-belief system" depends on in order for Atheism to be validated.
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#140024 - 01/17/06 01:54 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Old_Pig]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
>>Satanism as I see it is basically Atheism + Ritual.

Of course, it's more than ritual that distinguishes us from the run-of-the-mill "atheists" out there. One could be an atheist yet still shows clear signs of the 9 Sins, or whole-heartedly disagrees with the 9 Statements, etc.
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#140025 - 04/27/06 06:46 PM Re: Why Atheism? [Re: Bill_M]
Illuminatus Offline


Registered: 03/19/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Hellsinki, Finland
Quote:

>>You do bring up a point though, and it's something that I talk a little about in an upcoming Not Like Most article: just because atheists reject most other religions, doesn't make them our "friends"! They're not our allies. They can be just as anti-Satanic as Christians most times.




This is actually very true.I discussed satanism with some "freethinkers" and found that their idea of satanism was the same as the christian church.Brilliant questions such as "you must believe in God if you believe in the Devil" we're liberally flung around.

But I do have a certain "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"-mentality.I'm willing to support these freethinkers since their goals are mostly the same as mine.
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