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#143539 - 02/03/06 06:26 AM Truth is not reality.
ChrisRedstar Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 1235
Loc: In Transit
I read a lot of posts in this public area of the board, by CoS-Members and non-members alike, about how bad the world is, how many people are telling lies and other complaints about whatnot.
Surprisingly , many people care more about the public and others, than they care about themselves. Life in a society is like a game. It follows certain rules which are not made by us, but we have to follow them. This is unfortunate, but such is life.

One of the “hidden” rules is: TRUTH IS NOT REALITY!

A very important point , when dealing with other people. It is important for your goals, your greater and lesser magic, even for understanding what others may tell you, that you know the difference between truth and reality. Truth often is the result of a compromise or an agreement between 2 or more individuals, even between nations.
It can be the same thing, but not nessesarily .
Most of what’s written in history books is not reality. In most cases, “written history” is nothing but the version of the winner. Religious books are nothing but the result of an agreement between likeminded people to what the truth is. Truth is the brother of belief. Reality is a loner.
We all know the stories about witnesses identifying people at a crime scene. How often are they mistaken? It is not because they are liars. They realy BELIVE that what they say is true. It is their truth and nothing can change that. Same effect with Christians and Muslims. They are convinced that their god is true and that he is watching over them and their actions. When a Satanist enters the ritual chamber, he embraces his own truth, but knows that it is not reality and that makes the big difference. Receiving real results by denying reality for a certain time.

Just because you know that, doesn’t mean everybody knows. If you learn to utilize the knowledge of this difference, you’ve got a big advantage in everyday’s life. Acknowledging someone elses truth for the moment is a powerfull tool of lesser magic. Controled self-deceit in order to receive a real life result. Just the same as in the ritual chamber.
I do not say, that truth is worse than reality. They are equally worth if you know how and when to chose the right one in a certain situation. Like a hammer and a saw. They are both tools that serve a certain purpose. Just don’t mix them up like 99% of the population.
Every now and then, check your own truth and compare it with reality and you will much less complain about that, which you need not subject yourself to anyway. ( pun intended)
_________________________
Chris Redstar
Church of Satan Priest

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#143540 - 02/03/06 08:20 AM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
What you have pointed out is very important for the Satanist to remember. Truth is based on perception.

To borrow a term from Chaos Magic theory - "The map is not the territory". This term is well worth consideration.


Edited by BigBad (02/03/06 08:24 AM)
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#143541 - 02/03/06 08:44 AM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
Quote:

Just because you know that, doesn’t mean everybody knows.





I need this reminder sometimes. Thank you. I have the tendency to get really annoyed with people who state the obvious, and I have to keep reminding myself that maybe it's not so obvious to them, you know?

Quote:


Every now and then, check your own truth and compare it with reality and you will much less complain about that, which you need not subject yourself to anyway. ( pun intended)




This statement is part of my personal truth. I have trouble doing it, but sometimes I have to step back from a situation and make sure that I'm not being recieved as an asshole for the things I say. Being tactful is hard for me, but I'm learning. I know I'm getting better at seeing the other side because I don't have road rage any more. When someone cuts me off, I don't get pissed any more. I just check my own driving and make sure I'm not being as much of an asshole as the other guy. There have to be good drivers out there to even out the instance of bad ones. I've gotten this concept down when it comes to driving, so my insolence won't cause any car wrecks. Now I've got to work this into my conversational skills. Patience is a virtue, and I've got very little of it.
My little brother is teaching me patience right now. He's nine, and I don't know if you've ever tried to get a nine year old video game addict to do what you want him to do, but, I'm telling you, it's damn near impossible. Sometimes I can be calm and steady, but sometimes I break and fly off the handle with the little guy. I have to send him to his room and make him stay there for a while before I have the patience to even look at him sometimes. I do this because I love my bro. Anyone else would get the shit knocked out of them for the stuff he's pulled. Oh, man, yeah, you better believe that little punk is teaching me patience. The whole count to ten seconds thing is bullshit. It's got to be at least ten minutes for me. Maybe that's the trick though. Maybe I need to treat everyone like they're all nine year olds. Then I'll be able to have patience with them all.
The one quote the crackergirl issues more than anything when dealing with her little brother's attitude--
"Dude, right now, you're so fucking lucky I love you because if I didn't...shit."
Truth is not reality. Damn right. What I'm taking from this is a reminder that it's important to be patient enough to hear someone out first. It's a wake up call for me. I'm very much the center of my little universe. I'm working on incorporating the feelings of other people into that. Being considerate and learning to understand (though not completely accept) other world views is definitely something worth working on.

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#143542 - 02/03/06 09:08 AM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: crackergirl]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
I can empathise with you on this one!

My son (now nearly 12) has always been argumentative and confrontational. When he's on the computer or playing his Gameboy he just ignores me and it drives me crazy having to repeat myself over and over! It's lucky I love him to bits, because if a flat mate or girlfriend acted like he does sometimes they'd be out on their arse!

Sometimes I find learning to be patient with him backfires, however! When adults display behaviour that I consider moronic even for my son's level it makes my blood boil!

Oh well, guess you can't win them all!
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www.vampiretemple.com

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#143543 - 02/03/06 10:04 AM Very good ! [Re: ChrisRedstar]
Majik Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 378
Loc: USA
Thank you Reverend ChrisRedstar

I was just yesterday tiring to figure something just like this to tell a co-work.

Of course I will have to edit your version a little (no disrespect to you) they are not members. But the principle is great for them.

I totally agree in the theory.

Thank you again.

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#143544 - 02/03/06 10:50 AM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

To borrow a term from Chaos Magic theory - "The map is not the territory". This term is well worth consideration.




That is a military proverb with a long history.

I would not give "chaos magick" leeches the credit.
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#143545 - 02/03/06 12:30 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12988
Loc: The Solid State
Receiving real results by denying reality for a certain time.

In my experience, actually denying reality either reaps no results, or bad results.

If real results have been achieved, then it stands to reason--at least for me--that someone has managed to do or believe *something* that "clicks" with reality.

Intellectual decompression serves the purpose of detaching the Satanist from his or her usual perception of reality, that is, his or her usual, general understanding of the truth of what reality is.

Once again, the everyday truths we encounter, test, and observe do not reveal the total, complete, underlying reality that exists.

I hope I haven't missed the point or needlessly split some hairs there, Reverend.
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"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#143546 - 02/03/06 12:54 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: TrojZyr]
ChrisRedstar Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 1235
Loc: In Transit
When I enter my chamber to perform a ritual, I deny reality the very moment I step in. The outcome of this can still be quiet real.

If I have a customer, who happens to be a Muslim, I can switch to his truth for a little while, just to understand what he is talking about. Or not to upset him by saying something against his truth. At least he is a customer and he has the money I want. Once he left my office, I switch back to reality, or MY truth.
This is what I mean by controled denying of reality for a short while. It can bring you real results as long as you are aware of the difference.

I hope this clears it up a bit for you.

HS!
_________________________
Chris Redstar
Church of Satan Priest

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#143547 - 02/03/06 02:07 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: Svengali]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
You beat me to it!

And the most perfect map possible would be, of course, the territory itself.

When dealing with the ritual chamber and the real world, this I think is a concept that the Satanist acheives, and the others, chaos or what have you, do not.
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"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#143548 - 02/03/06 02:48 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I do not believe that this is a hidden rule, most people are aware that their truth is not necessarily reality, they just refuse to accept it. Truth is by definition fact about real things, events or people. Reality is something that is neither imitative nor contingent upon the persons accepted truth but still exists even if a person does not want it too. Both are dependant upon the individual’s point of view and intellect.

Yes, seeing things from someone else’s point of view can be a very powerful tool but controlled self-deceit may not be quite the right definition. Self-deceit in any form, controlled or otherwise can place you in a predicament when stepping back into your own reality and could affect you as well in the long term. I prefer to say that it is broadmindedness and a way of understanding someone else’s truth or reality to better utilize the tools you possess in order to achieve the specified result without influencing your life or practices. Denying reality at any time could be detrimental to achieving your goals. Even in the ritual chamber, do we really every truly suspend reality or do we simply pretend to do so? Or perhaps this is just another way of saying the sme thing you have already stated.

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#143549 - 02/03/06 03:07 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
>>If I have a customer, who happens to be a Muslim, I can switch to his truth for a little while, just to understand what he is talking about. Or not to upset him by saying something against his truth. At least he is a customer and he has the money I want.<<

This is obviously true.

But my own definition of such circumstances is that I'm not exactly entering into any form of self deceit or "switching of truths" - it is more that I am manipulating his percption of reality and not my own.

I think lesser magic remains grounded in the rational whilst suspension of disbelief should be saved for inside the chamber itself.

Any kind of suspension of disbelief outside of the chamber simply wouldn't work, for me personally.

Though I suppose others may find different applications, I'm not sure.


Edited by UVRAY (02/03/06 03:09 PM)
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#143550 - 02/03/06 03:54 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
ChrisRedstar Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 1235
Loc: In Transit
Quote:

I do not believe that this is a hidden rule




That's why there are strings attached to "hidden".

And yes,it is pretty much the same thing I have already stated. I see that you and Warlock UVRAY have a problem with the term "self-deceit". I thought the context would be quiet clear.
As it is stated in the Satanic Sins: "The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!"

That is what I have called "contolled self-deceit".

Quote:

Even in the ritual chamber, do we really every truly suspend reality or do we simply pretend to do so?




Do you use magic as a tool , or do you just pretend to do so? What do you think makes a good magician? Sad enough, many people often only pretend to do things instead of just doing them. ( See Magister Svengalis post in this section ) Yes, in my rituals I completely suspent reality, but I know that I do so. And I have no problems at all, switching back into reality.
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Chris Redstar
Church of Satan Priest

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#143551 - 02/03/06 07:00 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: Mason_Rust]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
I did not realise it was a military proverb. Thanks for pointing this out Magister Svengali.

Mason_Rust, you make a very good point regarding the ritual chamber. I do think, though, that the saying, when taken simply makes a good point regarding reality outside of the ritual chamber. I read it in a way that sums up much of what Rev. ChrisRedstar said.
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"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#143552 - 02/03/06 07:20 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: ChrisRedstar]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Yes, I have to admit that the phrase "self-deceit" is a phrase I have trouble with. I have seen far to many people who deceive themselves every day in one way or another throughout their entire lives and it disgust me to no end. I am not good at hiding this and perhaps I take this sort of thing far to serious at times and need to relax a little more.

A good magician is someone who can become completely immersed in the magic or ritual, amongst other qualities, and I admit that this takes someone who can separate himself from reality for a time, and he or she must believe wholeheartedly in what they are doing or it is a useless endeavor and a colossal waste of time and energy.

And no, its not “pretend” where magic and ritual are concerned, this was the wrong word for what I meant, I should have said that even though you may suspend reality in the ritual chamber you still know the difference, or I would hope that a person would be able to tell that there is a difference, as you have stated, although I have seen some who could not distinguish in the end.

Okay, so I am just repeating you at this point!

Darkest Regards,
Scarlet

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#143553 - 02/03/06 07:58 PM Re: Truth is not reality. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
I agree. When dealing with people it is often necessary to deal with them on their own level. This creates the illusion that you share the same "truth" and makes the task of getting what you want from them much easier.
No self deceit is necessary.

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