Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#144060 - 02/07/06 05:10 PM The Environment and Satanism
Lithslithus Offline


Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
As a preface, I don't have every book or scripture written by Satanists on all subjects. If there is a book or essay that covers this subject, I'd be very interested to see it. I also took a quick search through the forum and I hadn't found this subject covered either.

How do Satanists view the environment and the unfortunate abuse of the bed we all sleep in, known as Earth?

I couldn't find a clear answer to this. One one hand, Mr. Lavey vilifies the natural order of life, condemning individuals who strive against it; on the other he has no qualms talking about industrialists or big buisinesses as positive individuals. I can see his reasons for both quite clearly but what I'm foggy about is the actual philosophy towards environmental concerns.

Destruction is required for progress, there's no way you can avoid that. However, it becomes apparent when someone crosses the line from exploiting their resources and similtaneously eating up your own. Big environmentally unsound industries come to mind. These things mess up everyone's plans for a fruitful life, in the name of their own selfish gains. There's industry and then there's survival and in the name of survival it stands to reason that Satanists would at least assume an air of environmental conscientousness. A respect for the needs of life.

In essence, is the environment villified or is it considered extraneous? Some clarity would be apreciated.


Edited by Lithslithus (02/07/06 05:33 PM)
_________________________
Exterminate all rational thought. That is the conclusion I have come to. - William Lee

Top
#144061 - 02/07/06 05:21 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
CrimsIn_Guard Offline


Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 18
I look at it sort of how George Carlin looks at it. We're not even making a dent in this place.

We are fleas on the back of a giant dog...and when she gets irritated enough with us...she will shake us off.

Top
#144062 - 02/07/06 05:22 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
How do Satanists view the environment and the unfortunate abuse of the bed we all sleep in, known as Earth?

Feh. Let the druids worry about that. You might want to ask what
the Satanic view on politics (Kyoto Accord, EPA etc...) is?

Mr. Lavay

Who's that?
_________________________




Top
#144063 - 02/07/06 05:31 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: CrimsIn_Guard]
Lithslithus Offline


Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
Thank-you.

This is an actual answer to the question I was asking.

Although I can't share the same sentiment, it's interesting to hear.
_________________________
Exterminate all rational thought. That is the conclusion I have come to. - William Lee

Top
#144064 - 02/07/06 05:34 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: RandomStranger]
Lithslithus Offline


Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
Asking neurotically precise questions about a subject that can be covered in a single one, is a damn waste of time.

And it's called a 'typo'. You've made thousands in your time I'm sure. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
_________________________
Exterminate all rational thought. That is the conclusion I have come to. - William Lee

Top
#144066 - 02/07/06 05:44 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

How do Satanists view the environment and the unfortunate abuse of the bed we all sleep in, known as Earth?


Quote:

I couldn't find a clear answer to this.




Satanism represents life - Earth sustains that life. To me, the answer is simple.

Quote:

One one hand, Mr. Lavay vilifies the natural order of life, condemning individuals who strive against it; on the other he has no qualms talking about industrialists or big buisinesses as positive individuals.




Where did Dr. LaVey shine a negative light on the natural function of life?

*As a note: Please spell Dr. LaVey's name properly.*

Quote:

In essence, is the environment villified or is it considered extraneous? Some clarity would be apreciated.




Have you read anything at all about Satanism? If you did, perhaps you should read it again.
_________________________






Top
#144067 - 02/07/06 06:15 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
Lithslithus Offline


Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
It would appear obvious that many people don't agree with you

And I'm sure Lavey is rolling around in his grave in abject horror that I made a typo! Whatever shall I do?! It's fixed by the way. Find something less silly to comment on.
_________________________
Exterminate all rational thought. That is the conclusion I have come to. - William Lee

Top
#144068 - 02/07/06 06:20 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Asking neurotically precise questions about a subject that can be covered in a single one, is a damn waste of time.

Exactly! Just like trying to fit all Satanists into a broadswept
category of {pro|con}-[some issue] by asking what "the actual
philosophy towards environmental concerns
" is.

You've made thousands in your time I'm sure.

Of course I make typos. But not where it matters.
_________________________




Top
#144069 - 02/07/06 06:22 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

It would appear obvious that many people don't agree with you




If that is the case, I'm not overly concerned.

Though I am curious how you drew that conclusion.
_________________________






Top
#144070 - 02/07/06 06:28 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: ]
Lithslithus Offline


Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6
I know individuals don't share my exact opinions. That's a given.

Thank-you for answering my question to the best of your ability. Since I don't have access to every Satanist book under the Sun, I wasn't sure if the talks on Natural man and Earth actually went into that realm, or if they just stagnated.

Since several varying opinions were presented it seems it's a personal case. Excellent. Onto something else.
_________________________
Exterminate all rational thought. That is the conclusion I have come to. - William Lee

Top
#144071 - 02/07/06 06:40 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11566
Loc: New England, USA
>>As a preface, I don't have every book or scripture
>>written by Satanists on all subjects.

Who does?

>>How do Satanists view the environment and the
>>unfortunate abuse of the bed we all sleep in, known
>>as Earth?

My own take is that "responsibility to the responsible" plays a big part here. I abhor the idea of people dumping toxic waste in random places, carelessly poluting other public places, etc. I also think there are environmental topics that should be given more attention than they're currently given, like overpopulation.

However, the hysteria-like obedience I see in many active environmentalists comes off as quite unsatanic. There's a lot of propaganda coming from that group too which so many blindingly accept as truth. There's a "third side" somewhere in between. This subject gets tied into politics too, and political views obviously change from Satanist to Satanist.

>>And it's called a 'typo'.

No, something like "LaVeyy" or "LVey" is a typo. "Lavay" is an outright misspelling, no doubt phonetically based.

>>And I'm sure Lavey is rolling around in his grave in
>>abject horror that I made a typo! Whatever shall I do?!
>>It's fixed by the way.

Almost...
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#144072 - 02/07/06 06:44 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Satanists are individuals. Each individual has his own personal opinions about different issues, including the so called "Environment".

But there are of course, some things all Satanists share, like a respect for animals and life in general.

The rule of not killing animals unless absolutely necessary (self-defense or food) is one that shows how Satanists interact with nature.

Also, Satanist is always respectful of the laws of the country he lives, which means he would not do irresponsible things like not dropping used car oil in the backyard or drinking while driving oil tankers.

Quote:

Since I don't have access to every Satanist book under the Sun




Actually, you only need ONE book to get a good idea of what Satanism is all about. And about SIX to get to get a pretty complete knoledge on the subject.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#144073 - 02/07/06 06:52 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
The earth isnt hurting. I think we're doing just fine.


The vast majority of people Ive spoken to who are enviromentalists are not interested in actual research about the enviroment, they are concerned about who is in office and want to talk about how evil corperations are(and use the earth to gain attention). They bitch about GMO's and speicies loss without really knowing what the hell they are talking about. I've gotten quite sick of the idea of evil ceos in giant sky scrapers plotting the way to make a profit in the most cruel and careless fashion possible- its unrealistic and SILLY.

edit: as far as the relationship between this subject and satanism goes- well I would say its best to continue being skeptical and researching both sides of the issue. There is so much disagreement, and each position has its fair share of gain from producing research. Trying to find info from people who are genuinely curious is pretty tough, but it can be done. the truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.


Edited by uncleherpe (02/07/06 06:55 PM)
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144074 - 02/07/06 07:08 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
I personally abhor the abuse of nature and animals in any form. Humanity is a spoiled child, completely unappreciative of its parent (nature). People complain about natural disasters, but few realize that many types of natural disasters are an indirect result of humanity's mistreatment of the planet. Of course, if humanity would take an active role in curbing its own growth and possibly reducing the population, nature might not have to do it for them.

That being said, I am not anti-civilization. However, I believe that it is crucial to our survival that we stop operating under the arrogant assumption that the planet is ours to dominate and its resources ours to use any way we deem appropriate. Religion is a culprit here. Just refer to the Book of Genesis if you don't believe me.

Top
#144075 - 02/07/06 07:13 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10143
I support preservation of the "environment" in a sense, but for very different reasons than most environmentalists, and in different ways.

First, as far as I'm concerned the earth exists to serve man, not the other way around.

However, soiling your own sheets is unpleasant.

Therefore, I believe that limited "natural" tracts ought to be maintained for our amusement and for the purpose of more cheaply maintaining cleanliness than we can do. We can filter everything, or let plant life do it for us. The plants are free. Water is essential, so it's foolish to get it too dirty to drink. Land looks better when it's not marred by filth.

On the other hand, I couldn't care less about leaving everything pristine. The "natural world" is an amusement park and filter, not a god(dess) we ought to bow down before.

This, by the way, is perfectly natural. Plenty of other animals actively modify the environment to suit them; beavers did it and still do in some areas to a massive degree. Everything from elephants to earthworms modifies whatever they can to suit them. We do the same. There is no guilt for this.

I still think people who throw litter in my yard ought to have their brains pulled through their nostrils.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

Top
#144076 - 02/07/06 07:51 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Maya]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

I personally abhor the abuse of nature and animals in any form. Humanity is a spoiled child, completely unappreciative of its parent (nature). People complain about natural disasters, but few realize that many types of natural disasters are an indirect result of humanity's mistreatment of the planet.





How do people cause hurricanes and earthquakes?
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144077 - 02/07/06 09:40 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

How do people cause hurricanes and earthquakes?




Keep in mind, hurricanes and earthquakes are not the only 'natural' disasters to plague mankind.

Floods, disease, famine, avalanches, drought, etc. are all examples of natural disasters.

Overpopulation is a major factor for many imbalances in the process of nature - which will sometimes lead to these events.

Take drought for instance: I found this comment provided by the University of Wisconsin - Disaster Management Center.

"Human activities also contribute to the development of drought conditions. Overgrazing, poor cropping methods and improper soil conservation techniques often contribute to creating the drought."

That's just one example of how humans can be direct causes for disasters. Certainly, not every disaster on the face of the planet is caused by the human race - that would be an unreasonable argument - however, it's certain that we are a factor for many.

I'll provide you with one more example.

Global warming - we've all heard about it.

Another direct effect from human causality. The more we breed, the more fuel we use. The more fuel we use, the more pollution we cause.

I provide you with a few passages from a Q & A interview hosted by the N.R.D.C - Natural Resource Defense Council.

"What causes global warming?"

"Carbon dioxide and other air pollution that is collecting in the atmosphere like a thickening blanket, trapping the sun's heat and causing the planet to warm up. Coal-burning power plants are the largest U.S. source of carbon dioxide pollution -- they produce 2.5 billion tons every year. Automobiles, the second largest source, create nearly 1.5 billion tons of CO2 annually."

This is just the United States.

Do humans have any bearing on the frequency of hurricanes and earthquakes? No. Do we have a bearing on their intensity? Yes.

Consider this; "Global warming doesn't create hurricanes, but it does make them stronger and more dangerous. Because the ocean is getting warmer, tropical storms can pick up more energy and become more powerful. So global warming could turn, say, a category 3 storm into a much more dangerous category 4 storm. In fact, scientists have found that the destructive potential of hurricanes has greatly increased along with ocean temperature over the past 35 years."

But, it really all boils down to whether or not you're concerned with what happens after you are personally gone. I'd hardly say that the Earth is in any immanent danger - though it stands to reason that with the perpetual growth of the human population, eventually we will cause the destruction of our planet.
_________________________






Top
#144078 - 02/07/06 09:57 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Quote:

I'd hardly say that the Earth is in any immanent danger - though it stands to reason that with the perpetual growth of the human population, eventually we will cause the destruction of our planet.





Nope. We can cause the extinction of the human species... but the planet will still here.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#144079 - 02/07/06 11:19 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
I am not actually convinced that global warming is even happening. junk science has a ton of good articles about global warming, and you cant really argue with the temperature records.

drought? well, contribution and cause are not the same thing. I thought the post I quoted was talking about how people cause natural disasters, not how we contribute to an already occuring natural disaster. I could get stabbed and poke at my wound(which would make it worse), but that doesnt mean that the poking caused the stab wound.


Edited by uncleherpe (02/08/06 12:31 AM)
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144080 - 02/08/06 12:33 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I would say that I am quite pro-environment indeed, and I certainly would say that my stance is a Satanic one.

Animals are treasured by most Satanists--for their beauty, for their diversity, for their natures, for their honesty, and for what they can teach us.

It makes no sense to soil one's own sheets, and shit in one's own nest. The planet supports us, so it's in our interest to support it so that it can continue to support us.

I like many animals and plants better than I like many people, and many Satanists feel the same way. So, it makes sense to stand behind who I prefer, and certainly, behind those I actually like or love. Many of the animals and plants I know or know of, I see as individuals, with their own valuable, interesting, worthwhile lives. Even if I were not here to enjoy them for my own benefit, I would still hope that they would continue to thrive--especially the lemurs .

Nature improves my quality of life in so many ways, so I seek to preserve that which teaches me, enlightens me, and makes me happy.

Observation has shown me that assorted humans who try to dominate or ignore nature without properly understanding it or respecting it first usually live to regret it---or, if they don't, their descendants do. Hubris is a killer.

Humans need nature. The presence of a nice park--and believe me, humans need even more than just one little park--with some trees and bushes can make such a difference, aesthetically and otherwise. (Read Desmond Morris' "The Human Zoo" if you don't quite believe me.) Nature's presence also serves to remind humans that they are also animals, with creaturely instincts, anatomy, and traits, and a long, glorious evolutionary heritage. Some of the most obnoxious and/or nasty people I know are noticeably detached from, oblivious to, disrespectful of, or even disdainful of animals and nature, and I don't think it's a mere coincidence.

Most anti-environmental views that I am familiar with are connected to or spawned directly from backwards, anti-science, anti-life Judeo-Christian-Islamic values. Certainly, there's no use in championing or even allowing causes whose fundamental core assumptions are that the planet is evil, that the Rapture is nigh, that humans are not animals and are preferable to animals, and/or that humans are the pinnacle of creation.

Even what I've said here doesn't quite do my whole view justice. There's a lot more sentiment and sentimentality at work than I can hope to easily convey, and it goes much deeper.


Edited by TrojZyr (02/08/06 12:54 AM)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#144081 - 02/08/06 12:53 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: TrojZyr]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
The things that please me aesthetically are big industrial buildings, grafitti, filth, cars, clothing, etc. I really enjoy looking at the amazing things that have been accomplished by man. Thats what I find truly inspiring. The amber waves of grain and fruited plains are BORING as far as I am concerned.


I am confused about what you said in regards to anti-enviroment views. What is an anti enviromental viewpoint?
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144082 - 02/08/06 01:09 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Anything that calls animals in general "dumb" (or a synonym expressing disgust or severe disinterest), anything that denies that humans are animals, and certainly, any statement that starts or ends with, "When Jesus comes back...."

"Anti-environment" is a strong way to put it, and can even be disingenuous or snarky, depending on who you're talking about--for example, many views are better described as being "environment apathetic" or "environment oblivious," more than "anti-environment"---but I wanted to get the point across succinctly without having to state too many exceptions or disclaimers.

....especially since this is something I'd say I feel pretty strongly about, so I'm not eager to mince words about it too much, if it means that what I value is going to be sabotaged in any serious way. If the whole world were to be turned into Detroit or New York--hypothetically, of course---I'd be absolutely furious, and I'd do my absolute best to prevent that.

I don't want to live in a primitive, city-free world, either, mind you, so I'm not a Luddite, Amish, or Rousseau-fan. I like to see the accomplishments of humankind, too, and I think big cities and large townships have their place in the bigger scheme of things. (Living completely out "in the boonies" ain't all it's cracked up to be--it pays to be 10 to 15 minutes away from the mall, some good restaurants, the bus station, and the hospital!) But, I figure, a 250-year-old tree is a rarer sight than a concrete highway, and much harder to replace if destroyed, so care must be taken not to do regretable things that can't be undone. I get more joy out of learning about an Abert's squirrel than I do out of learning about a parking meter, or about the Crip retard who spray-painted the side of the bus stop.
.
Oh, and I realize this post was strongly biased. The city is a more interesting place for those who enjoy it---and even I enjoy it---so I realize I slanted the debate a certain way.


Edited by TrojZyr (02/08/06 05:16 PM)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#144083 - 02/08/06 10:37 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
d1g1t Offline


Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Southwest UK
There's nothing unnatural about shits in nature: I'm sure many plants would love this, but I am no expert gardener!

However, dumping plastic into landfills isn't always that great: I'd rather not see my planet with rubbish everywhere.

Many animals use materials to aid their lives, so why shouldn't we? Beavers make dams out of wood, wasps make their nests out of their own spit I believe (Correct me if I am wrong!)...

I do prefer animals over many humans, but that doesn't mean we can't use landfills, because as much as recycling is a great idea, it doesn't give us the best quality goods.

Birds shit on our pavements, and we dump our rubbish in the countryside.
_________________________
Wise men do not share wisdom, they share opinion.

Top
#144084 - 02/08/06 11:15 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Would that be body-modification?
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

Top
#144085 - 02/08/06 12:30 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Atheon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 42
Loc: Long Beach, CA
Quote:

I don't have every book or scripture written by Satanists on all subjects.




Sounds like a sheep in wolves clothing. A Satanist doesn't need a bunch of books to tell him or her how to think. A Satanist doesn't regurgitate the thoughts of others, but creates new thoughts.

Quote:

How do Satanists view the environment and the unfortunate abuse of the bed we all sleep in, known as Earth?




Since Satanists are individuals, you'd have to ask all of them about their viewpoints. I am an environmentalist, but one who's environmentalsm doesn't stem from some false sense of morality based on erroneous science. Keeping the environment clean and beautiful is good for humans aesthetically, healthwise, and psychologically. So caring for the planet is a no brainer for a Satanist I would think.

I do not believe that humans are causing the climate shift that we are appearantly experiencing though. People have forgotten their elementary science. The earth is still warming out of the last ice age. So global warming is inevitable and will speed up before reaching critical and plunging back into another ice age.

We, humans, are doing quite a fantastic job dirtying things up a bit though. No worries! Our species won't last forever and nature will create new forms of life that will process and live happily with all that we leave behind.

Quote:

Destruction is required for progress, there's no way you can avoid that.




That's foney-baloney absolutist environmentalist bunk! There are those who are finding ways to create "progress" and industry that enhances the natural environment while shaping it to suit human interests.

Quote:

In essence, is the environment villified or is it considered extraneous?




Go to www.dictionary.com and look up the words "villify" and "extraneous". I think you need some clarification of those words to use them properly.
_________________________
Hail Satan! Hail Thyself!

Atheon Naturali

Top
#144086 - 02/08/06 12:36 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Perfidious Albion
Quote:

How do people cause hurricanes and earthquakes?




You've obviously never experienced the mushy peas from our local chippy.
_________________________
Wine for my men, we ride at dawn...

Do I look like I carry a pencil? Jason Statham

It may be Crazy
But I'm the closest thing I have
To a voice of reason


~ Gil Scott Heron




Top
#144087 - 02/08/06 12:43 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Kerise Offline


Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Going to hell wearing gasoline...
I think your question was pretty much like asking " Do Satanist like to eat pizza?"
I didn't read you introduction, but I am guesing you come from a religion such as Wicca, which is not a bad thing, that's where I came from, but it has, like most, a sheep mind set. " Harm None means all living things."
I think the real question you need to ask is a question to yourself: " What do I think about the enviroment?" And enjoy the world of free thought.
_________________________
" The scars remind us the past is real" Papa Roach http://www.myspace.com/glowingbug

Top
#144088 - 02/08/06 12:50 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Bedlam Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 1658
Loc: Perfidious Albion
Quote:

One one hand, Mr. Lavey vilifies the natural order of life, condemning individuals who strive against it; on the other he has no qualms talking about industrialists or big buisinesses as positive individuals.




That would be because there is nothing unnatural about either.
_________________________
Wine for my men, we ride at dawn...

Do I look like I carry a pencil? Jason Statham

It may be Crazy
But I'm the closest thing I have
To a voice of reason


~ Gil Scott Heron




Top
#144089 - 02/08/06 01:23 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Obviously there is no one answer to how Satanists view the environment, and the effects of homo sapiens on it. To be honest, you could replace homo sapiens with virtually any other species name, and have the same question. EVERY species effects the environment. In many cases, these affects will be seen by some as "negative". A group of animals will eventually eat the resources around it. If the herd is healthy, there will come a time when there is not enough to go around...food shortage....over-population. If part of the herd migrates, they will probably have to adapt to another environment, with some possible negative impact on the herd...disease, famine...or they may cause change to take place in the environment, often endangering local plant and animal life...extinction of species. There may be climate changes over time, due to loss of certain plant life...local warming.
No species can survive without impacting the environment. Depepnding on your viewpoint, some of these will be negative. With the ability to envision possible outcomes to certain actions, it seems only wise for us to preserve those things which give us pleasure, and even insure the future of our species.
I, myself, enjoy some time in remote, woody areas. I would hope we could preserve some space for this. I am also a city boy, who feels very comfortable in the urban jungle. I also enjoy different kinds of animals, and would like to see certain species stick around for a while. Fortunately, for me, I am partial to insects, so there is little we can do to destroy my enjoyment...I will ALWAYS have the cockroaches to play with.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#144090 - 02/08/06 02:05 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

Quote:

How do people cause hurricanes and earthquakes?




Keep in mind, hurricanes and earthquakes are not the only 'natural' disasters to plague mankind.

Floods, disease, famine, avalanches, drought, etc. are all examples of natural disasters.

Overpopulation is a major factor for many imbalances in the process of nature - which will sometimes lead to these events.

Take drought for instance: I found this comment provided by the University of Wisconsin - Disaster Management Center.

"Human activities also contribute to the development of drought conditions. Overgrazing, poor cropping methods and improper soil conservation techniques often contribute to creating the drought."

That's just one example of how humans can be direct causes for disasters. Certainly, not every disaster on the face of the planet is caused by the human race - that would be an unreasonable argument - however, it's certain that we are a factor for many.

I'll provide you with one more example.

Global warming - we've all heard about it.

Another direct effect from human causality. The more we breed, the more fuel we use. The more fuel we use, the more pollution we cause.

I provide you with a few passages from a Q & A interview hosted by the N.R.D.C - Natural Resource Defense Council.

"What causes global warming?"

"Carbon dioxide and other air pollution that is collecting in the atmosphere like a thickening blanket, trapping the sun's heat and causing the planet to warm up. Coal-burning power plants are the largest U.S. source of carbon dioxide pollution -- they produce 2.5 billion tons every year. Automobiles, the second largest source, create nearly 1.5 billion tons of CO2 annually."

This is just the United States.

Do humans have any bearing on the frequency of hurricanes and earthquakes? No. Do we have a bearing on their intensity? Yes.

Consider this; "Global warming doesn't create hurricanes, but it does make them stronger and more dangerous. Because the ocean is getting warmer, tropical storms can pick up more energy and become more powerful. So global warming could turn, say, a category 3 storm into a much more dangerous category 4 storm. In fact, scientists have found that the destructive potential of hurricanes has greatly increased along with ocean temperature over the past 35 years."

But, it really all boils down to whether or not you're concerned with what happens after you are personally gone. I'd hardly say that the Earth is in any immanent danger - though it stands to reason that with the perpetual growth of the human population, eventually we will cause the destruction of our planet.




Hell, you beat me to it!

In addition to my last post, I'd like to add that humanity should have a balanced relationship with nature. I do not believe that man exists to serve nature, nor do I believe that nature exists to serve man. Humanity, like it or not, is and always will be at the mercy of the will of nature and the universe. When I say "will", understand that I am in no way implying any sort of active consciousness. I believe that the universe operates much like a computer. It is comprised of many different parts, all created and operated in the pursuit of a single goal: to simply maintain existence. All forms of life echo the universe's will to exist. That is its only will. All that it does, it does to exist. If humanity attempts to threaten its existence, it will surely be destroyed just like any other counterproductive creation of nature. At the end of the day, destroying the environment contributes to our own destruction.

Top
#144091 - 02/08/06 04:33 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Old_Pig]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

Nope. We can cause the extinction of the human species... but the planet will still here.




Indeed.

I was unclear in my post and I apologize.

When I said that we would cause Earth's "destruction," I didn't necessarily mean complete disintegration - that would be absurd.

However, I do think that a continued stroll down the current path of environmental awareness could - not definately - contribute to the Earth's inability to sustain life.

Without life, the planet would be dead - by default 'destroyed'.


Edited by AmbientLogic (02/08/06 04:47 PM)
_________________________






Top
#144092 - 02/08/06 05:12 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Indeed.

Also, even if human activity doesn't "destroy" the whole planet as such, it can still destroy whole ecosystems, disrupt natural systems, or kill whole species, and that's still unfortunate, and, more importantly, it's largely preventable.

Many of the negative or disruptive things that are done to the environment---both directly and indirectly--aren't necessary by any means. Rather, people and systems just go that route because that's what they know how to do, and/or that's what they feel like doing because it seems more efficient or convenient in the short run. That's why it's important to exercise foresight, and be willing to implement changes that seem inconvenient in the short run, in order to reap long-term benefits.

Yes, it's inevitable that humans will have an impact on the world, and so on and so forth. But, that's not excuse to leave a huge footprint, so to say, when it's absolutely feasible and ultimately preferable to leave a smaller one. That's precisely the kind of sneaky behavior and rationalization that Satanists tend to hate, after all---"Ooooh, I can't help it...." or "It's ok for me to_____, because it's easy and I have 'rights'...." Satanists tend to hate the people who feel it's appropriate to inconvenience others, muscle in on others' territory or space, or disrupt the system because they "wanna" do something. I figure, the environment is no different.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#144093 - 02/08/06 05:41 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
Major companies consistently enjoy the benefits of recieving government grants for exemplory efforts in complying with EPA regulations. You can be a greedy money-grubbing capitalist and still "save the whales."

It's our responsibility to clean up our own messes. Everyone should visit the recycling center whenever he can. Glass trash can be unsightly and it can cause injury too (as we all well know. Glass is sharp. Duh ). But when you take it to the recycling center, they can melt it down and make more glass products out of it. They can also grind the glass into tiny little beads and use it in a mixture for reflective paint for roadways. Broken glass can be turned into a safety feature. How about that? If we keep turning our trash into treasure, we'll all be better people (and more Satanic to boot. It's no secret that most Satanists are very enterprising people. Taking something that someone else has thrown away and turning it into something so useful, that sounds like something a Satanist would to do me).

For me, it's very clear. Very obvious. Satanists are environmentalists. We kind of have to be. I'm sure the statement "Responsibility to the Responsible" rings a bell.

Top
#144094 - 02/08/06 09:31 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Quote:

Quote:

Nope. We can cause the extinction of the human species... but the planet will still here.




Indeed.

I was unclear in my post and I apologize.

When I said that we would cause Earth's "destruction," I didn't necessarily mean complete disintegration - that would be absurd.

However, I do think that a continued stroll down the current path of environmental awareness could - not definately - contribute to the Earth's inability to sustain life.

Without life, the planet would be dead - by default 'destroyed'.




But still, even if we all tried, there is no way we could possibly extinguish life on this planet. We can make this world unable to sustain Human life, but not life in general. Remember that what is poisonous for us is delicious food for other creatures...

We can poison this world until every mammal dies. And we will have a world inhabited by happy 20-foot cockroaches.

Even in the hypothetical situation that every nuclear weapon in Earth exploded now, life won’t be destroyed, but actually rejuvenated! Most species would disappear, but the ones that survive would have a lot of space to start again. And with the increased radioactivity, there will be much more mutations, which would give a great jump-start to the Evolution of new species.

Imagine the three-legged blue crab-monkeys jumping around the upside-down palm trees with giant eyeballs instead of coconuts! Beautiful!
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#144095 - 02/08/06 10:38 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Maya]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>I believe that it is crucial to our survival that we stop operating under the arrogant assumption that the planet is ours to dominate and its resources ours to use any way we deem appropriate.

For now.

There is a great thread either in the Essay forum or the Politics member’s forum. I don't remember which.

However, I go into depth on why I replied with that statement.

Responsibility to the responsible, this is always the case. However, the Earth can be a tool, giving we take care of other minor issues through up and coming advances.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

Top
#144096 - 02/08/06 10:48 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
Personally, I care about having a nice environment. The world is beautiful, and I want to keep it that way. I like the beauty of nature, and I also admire when a nicely-designed piece of architecture is built to enhance human life by existing for us to use for more earthly indulgence. Great landscaping on the site creates harmony with nature. A building and its surroundings should be able to merge as a full work of art. We also need those crude forest preserves to run free in, as wild animals. A balance of crude and eloquently constructed places gives life the full effect.

As for dumping shit all over the place and recklessly making the world look ugly, I don’t like these kinds of things. I don’t want to look at shit, so I at least make my own efforts to do my part in keeping the environment in good condition.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

Top
#144097 - 02/08/06 11:05 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: TrojZyr]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I am in the opinion that the world is ripe with so much goodies and should be utilized. And by utilizing I mean for myself satisfaction. What satisfies me are all the neat treats that come with civilization.

I have no hard feelings on digging up the world to build me a huge tower that protects me from tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, and other destructive geographical causes. I like the urban jungle because it is designed to suit humans for survival. Of course there are nasty things that come with the urban, but that is the fault of human stupidity.

I also have the personal taste of venturing out to witness nature’s true glory, such as national parks. Those things are amazing. However, I only "witness" and I do not partake. If I do partake in nature it could lead to danger and maybe even death. Nature cares nothing for my safety no matter how safe I may assume I am and no matter how considerate I am of it.

Nature is best enjoyed as a visitor. Nature is here to be used. The only reason I see protecting parts of it is for my enjoyment. I like animals and I like hiking. So, I would like some parts to be preserved for my "viewing" satisfaction.

I can predict a time when we can create anything nature does and do it with more safety than nature allows. It could one day be like, “You destroy the Grand Canyon? Well, then just build a new one and make it better.”

Yes, I am idealist with a lot of knowledge in researching technology to make such wide assumptions. So shoot me.

I am not picking on you, TrojZyr. I am just having some fun. I have plenty of respect for your thoughtful opinions.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

Top
#144098 - 02/09/06 06:19 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Maya]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
I really, really doubt that global warming exsists. You should see my earlier response to the post you quoted. I am unconvinced that people cause natural disasters or that the earth is in trouble.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144099 - 02/09/06 07:33 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
This is the kind of thing that you cant do anything about, so dont waste your time. You would be better off spending time making your own life better, not devoting yourself to a lost cause. Go work for the EPA, then you can make it your job. Then at least your getting paid for it.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

Top
#144100 - 02/09/06 10:34 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Old_Pig]
LightSnake Offline


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 49
Quote:


And with the increased radioactivity, there will be much more mutations, which would give a great jump-start to the Evolution of new species.





I've sometimes wondered about this. Radiation has both a plus and a minus side. Too much, and it sterilizes an area, but if it's just a bit, it can 'enhance' evolution. Is there thus a 'right' level of radiation for biodiversity on earth to be healthiest? And is that optimal level similar to natural radiation levels?

I've read somewhere some evolutionist's loose estimation that about only 1 in 500 random genetic mutations are beneficial to a species, which would suggest that not much radiation can be too much. Still, could the world use a little more?

--LightSnake

Top
#144101 - 02/09/06 11:23 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Discipline]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
You could also destroy the Mona Lisa and make a new one, but I do feel that *something* would be lost. The replica is not the real thing, for the real thing has a history, a presence, a certain something. It's why Vegas is not as breath-taking (per se) as the sites it attempts to imitate.

This is one of the few cases in which you will see me be an idealist and a sentimentalist.

Oh, I'm all for keeping us safe, sure. Like I said, I'm not a Luddite, nor am I anti-civilization.

I also am well aware of the fact that nature is neutral towards its critters, us included---it's why I make fun of fluffy Wiccans, after all . It supports us and gives us life, but it can also lash out and kill us, and it doesn't give a fig either way. "Nothing personal," as they say. For that, it deserves a kind of respect and awe, for it is not to be underestimated, for misjudging it or misperceiving it could get you killed.

Also, you may notice that I am honestly taking into account the lives of various organisms and the ecosystems they live in, just as I take into account the feelings of, say, my mother, or a friend. (They aren't exactly the same, but you get the picture.) So, they have both extrinsic and intrinsic value to me, even in cases where I cannot derive tangible "use" from them.

No offense taken. Thank you.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#144102 - 02/09/06 11:55 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

I really, really doubt that global warming exsists.




To an extent, I can understand your opinion.

Global Warming has not been 'proven' beyond a shadow of doubt - mostly because climate models are incapable of supplying 100% accurate readings.

Science is a discipline that relies on supportable data. The data supporting the Global Warming theory is flawed, however, it offers the most reasonable approximation of the data we can measure to a 'perfect' degree.

Remember the method of science; to propose a theory and then provide evidence that the theory is reasonable in accordance with the laws of physics.

The facts speak for themselves.

The basic arguing points for Global Warming are as follows:

1.) Increase in global temperatures.
2.) A rise in sea level.

The data does support an increase of global temperatures.

"Average air temperatures have increased 1.2 degrees F over the past century."*

"The hottest 10 years in the last century have all occurred since 1980."*

"1998 was the hottest year on record, and 2001 was the second-hottest."*

"January-March, 2002, was the hottest such period on record."*

"Glaciers are retreating in many locations around the world."*

"Sea level continues to rise due to the expansion of warming ocean water and the melting of glaciers."*

** All statements provided by IPCC - The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

It stands to reason that I can assume global temperatures are rising - I don't need to take the measurements myself in order to agree with the data.

Also, the data supports a rise in sea level.

Measurements provided by IPCC models show that the sea level has risen a uniform 15 centimeters over the past century.

Just last march, the glaciologist community was stunned to document a section of ice the size of Rhode Island completely disintegrating. According to the laws of physics, this alone is not cause for alarm, since floating ice doesn't cause sea level to rise - the problem is that it does, however, contain interior ice caps that now have free access to the sea; which might cause severe increase in sea levels.

This june, NASA took pictures of the Greenland freshwater ice cap.This ice cap contains about 10 percent of the entire Earth's freshwater supply - the pictures confirm data that the ice cap is rapidly melting.

Provided all this evidence, it's a logical conclusion that Global Warming is indirectly supported. The proof is not 100% conclusive, but according to the uncertainty principle, nothing is. However, it would be unreasonable and foolish to disregard evidence just because that evidence wasn't 100% accurate.

As Jonathan Foley, an environmental scientist at University of Wisconsin-Madison says: "Where is there a reasonable doubt about global warming? Every piece of evidence says the world is getting warmer and CO2 is rising. Every law of physics says that increasing CO2 will trap heat. We don't have 100 percent statistical proof, but we've got a smoking gun, a motive and a body. What else does a regular person need to make a decision?"

I don't mind doubt - in fact I doubt on principle. However, when does doubt simply become irrational cynicism?
_________________________






Top
#144103 - 02/09/06 05:13 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
However, when does doubt simply become irrational cynicism?

Good post. Thanks for the data and insights, Ambient.

The data does point to the fact that the climate is changing, and it also indicates that such changes could lead to all kinds of environmental situations that we'd consider inconvenient, to say the least.

One must take care not to doubt oneself into a corner, which is your point. Based on the data I've seen, I'd say it's safe to stop doubting that the planet is experiencing some kind of noticeable climate change.

And, from there, if any bit of our logic or research indicates that human activity might be contributing to the situation, it makes sense to err on the side of safety. Better safe than sorry, I say, especially if safer tactics and technologies are generally within reach.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#144104 - 02/09/06 07:06 PM Any recommendations? [Re: Old_Pig]
pitzi_83 Offline


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Israel
Quote:

And about SIX to get to get a pretty complete knoledge on the subject.




I'd like to hear about additional books apart from "The Satanic Witch".

Top
#144105 - 02/09/06 07:14 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
even the epa says that many things about global warming are uncertain. global warming figures are usually ground temperature, not atmoshperic. If you look at the temperature of the air then there isnt really much of a average temperature change going on at all. The changes in ground temperature are not suprising, with the amount of things like concrete and ashpault (which conduct and hold heat much better than regular dirt) the increase after 1970 makes sense. the two figures of the temperature in the air and the temperature of the earth do not match up at all, so I am not convicned of global warming. I think the people in favor of global warming have much more to gain as well.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144106 - 02/09/06 08:04 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

global warming figures are usually ground temperature, not atmoshperic.




Either way you slice it, "ground" and "atmospheric" temperatures are increasing - I was taught that an increase in temperature infers heat (warming).

Also, consider this: Earth is not heated by internal energy sources, but rather from an external heat source - the Sun. Therefor, any increase in temperature on the surface is due in part because of the increasing temperatures in the atmosphere. This is not a tall stretch of logic my friend.

But, just in case, I'll provide you with some figures.

"A Remote Sensing Systems study, spearheaded by Frank Wentz, that re-analyzed 25 years worth of satellite temperature data. Using 1979-2002 numbers measuring the atmosphere from the surface up to the stratosphere, Wentz' team found that the temperature trend is an increase of 0.115 degrees centigrade per decade. This contrasts with data from the NASA team, led by climatologist John Christy from the University of Alabama, indicating that the same portion of the atmosphere is warming at a rate of 0.032 degrees centigrade per decade."**

"Christy notes that if one were to consider just the lower troposphere (the part of the atmosphere closest to the earth's surface) Wentz' temperature trend would be about 0.15 degrees centigrade per decade, in contrast to Christy's trend of .074 degrees centigrade per decade. The disparity in the two figures arises from the differing ways the two teams handle errors in the data sets, Christy says. He believes both methods are scientifically defensible in a statistical sense. However, Christy contends that a long-running series of weather-balloon measurements strongly and independently confirms his temperature trends."**

** Quote taken from a New York Times article entitled; ""New View of Data Supports Human Link to Global Warming,"


Quote:

If you look at the temperature of the air then there isnt really much of a average temperature change going on at all.




The data proves that this statement is erroneous.

Quote:

The changes in ground temperature are not suprising, with the amount of things like concrete and ashpault (which conduct and hold heat much better than regular dirt) the increase after 1970 makes sense.




A statement issued in refute to this very argument - called "Urban Heat Island" - by Stephen Schneider, a professor of geosciences at Stanford University reads as follows: "If you eliminate large cities or correct for them, it does not change the answer more than 10 percent. The urban heat island has been completely and thoroughly put to bed, it's been analyzed and reanalyzed."

The percentage is so low, that differences in temperature flunctuations are negligable on a global scale. Since the confirmed rise in global temperatures is a fact, this argument holds no weight and has since been abandoned by the scientific community.

Again, you are separating atmosphere from ground temperatures, however, as can be shown both are increasing - so the point is moot.

Quote:

the two figures of the temperature in the air and the temperature of the earth do not match up at all, so I am not convicned of global warming.




The percentages are different, however, the percentages all show increase - warming - therefor the point is again, moot.

Quote:

I think the people in favor of global warming have much more to gain as well.




Sounds a bit paranoid. What do 'they' have to gain?

And what do those against Global Warming have to lose?
_________________________






Top
#144107 - 02/10/06 08:56 PM Re: Any recommendations? [Re: pitzi_83]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
The Satanic Bible
The Satanic Witch
The Satanic Rituals
The Devil's Notebook
Satan Speaks
by Anton LaVey

Secret Life of a Satanist (Anton LaVey's biography)
by Blanche Barton

Those are the six books I was talking about.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


Top
#144108 - 02/10/06 11:12 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
actually the atmospheric temperatures do not seem to have any relation to the amount of greenhouse gasses in the air, and that is the whole theory that global warming is based upon. the things I have read do not show a relevant increase over the past 20 years when the concentration has been the highest, many of the more dramatic climate changes have occurred when there were less greenhouse gases. Im growing rather bored of this. ive seen both sides and I made my choice. Please research the other side of the argument and see what ya think.

what is parinoid about examining possible motovations behind actions? Its sensible.


Please. go to junk science. read. enjoy.


Edited by uncleherpe (02/10/06 11:17 PM)
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

Top
#144109 - 02/11/06 12:09 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Lithslithus]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Satanism is pragmatic.

Biotechnology will almost certainly solve all (yes, all) of the so-called "environmental problems" even before molecular nanotechnology does.

However most of these "problems" are actually political propaganda rather than real, so even there that leaves little that must be attended to.

However from a purely Satanic perspective if I do not personally have control over the issues then it is a waste of my time to be concerned.

So I am therefore not concerned at all both short term and long term.

Environmentalism is just another religion.

It is not my religion.

Now I shall enjoy some brandy.

Top
#144110 - 02/11/06 08:39 AM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: uncleherpe]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2336
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

actually the atmospheric temperatures do not seem to have any relation to the amount of greenhouse gasses in the air, and that is the whole theory that global warming is based upon.




It would appear that you don't know what a greenhouse gas is.

Definition: "Many chemical compounds found in the Earth’s atmosphere act as “greenhouse gases.” These gases allow sunlight to enter the atmosphere freely. When sunlight strikes the Earth’s surface, some of it is reflected back towards space as infrared radiation (heat). Greenhouse gases absorb this infrared radiation and trap the heat in the atmosphere."

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion you did, but hopefully this clears it up for you.

Provided the definition of a greenhouse gas, I'm sure a reasonable guy like you can spot the fallacy of your statement.

Quote:

the things I have read do not show a relevant increase over the past 20 years when the concentration has been the highest, many of the more dramatic climate changes have occurred when there were less greenhouse gases.




False.

According to the National Academy of Sciences, the Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the past century, with accelerated warming during the past two decades.

A statement issued during a Washington D.C. press release reads as follows:

"Despite differences in temperature data, strong evidence exists to show that the warming of the Earth's surface is "undoubtedly real," and that surface temperatures in the past two decades have risen at a rate substantially greater than average for the past 100 years, says a new report by the National Research Council of the National Academies."

Either way you slice it, the past two decades have seen the most dramatic change - not the other way around.

Quote:

what is parinoid about examining possible motovations behind actions? Its sensible.




Indeed it is sensible - until you start disregarding pertinent information; because it might not agree with your formulated opinion.
_________________________






Top
#144111 - 02/11/06 03:07 PM Re: The Environment and Satanism [Re: Poetaster]
Quercuss Offline


Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vermont, USA
Like many, I like a clean environment. I don't like to see trash blowing around (walking around?) on city streets any more than I do in the woods. I love a hike in the forest and a visit to Boston.

Humans have been around for only a blink of the Earth's eye. In this time we have changed much. Often without knowing ahead of time the actual consequences of our actions, even if we did try to minimize effect. Its trial and error.

The climate is warming. Its happened many times before. Remember? The dinosaurs lived during one of these warmer times. We may be and probably are having some effect on this. Its been colder too. Let's hope another ice age is a ways off.

The ice caps at the poles are melting affecting the way polar bears hunt and the warmer temperatures have allowed fungus deadly to amphibians to spread to areas where we humans have not known it to exist.

So, basically the best we and the herdlings can all do is live cleaner, clean up what's all ready dirty (I remember as a kid being able to drink tap water and I'm only 33), pick out a nice smelling sun screen and a snazzy pair of sun glasses and start going to the gym. 'Cause fat people don't look good in swim trunks.

I'm gonna miss those frogs and polar bears, but then again...I really hate shoveling snow.

------------------

On another note...

People say things like, "I'm a city boy. I've no need for 'Nature'", and "We must take care of "Nature".

"Nature" is not something separate and different from somewhere else. It is everywhere we go. We build houses to hide from the elements, yes. But, just because the fields have been paved over and a city built atop them offering the illusion of safety from "Nature" doesn't mean a thing. That city still sits smack dab in the middle of "Nature". It offers little safety from "Nature". A good tornado or flood can really ruin an urbanite's day.

Many wild animals adapt nicely and some even flourish in urban settings and I've never seen a storm steer clear of a major metropolitain area (Storm: "Oh...can't rain over there. Its a city! Shh! *sneaks away*). Remember that when you've had a rat or racoon in your garbage and the next time an awesome thunder storm rolls through.

Humans are no more special or amazing than anything else, we only think we are. If we are so great, how come all the animals, that don't know us, run from us?! Silly, noisy, dirty monkeys.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Forum Stats
12257 Members
73 Forums
44036 Topics
406369 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements