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#145323 - 02/15/06 01:19 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: DeLamar_J]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

I don't really believe in normal or abnormal, because there really is no such thing unless you consider what the masses like or dont like.




Regardless of whether you believe in normal or abnormal, they still exist. What I think you are trying to say is that you do not agree with the common moral/psychological baggage attached to the two terms. On that point, I agree. Normal does exist, but "normal" does not mean "good". In fact, most people I've met that are usually considered "normal" bore me to death.

As for Nazism and genocide, I'm a little too tired to delve into that right now.

Quote:

Igor of "Young Frankenstein":

Yes, master, I got the brain of "Abbie Normal".




I love that movie!

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#145324 - 02/15/06 02:12 PM human morality ? [Re: DeLamar_J]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Well, that's a subject like other ones, ok.

But what I appreciate in such discussions, it's when the whole thing is concerned. But apparently not here I see. That's doesn't mean I care, but to speak about something like this shouldn't be with the same good old examples.

I open the post, what do I read ? > Hitler, then the U.S.A.

Well, so why not speaking about Staline and it's 25 millions dead ? Or Native Americans ? See, this could be neverending.

I don't speak about "different races" here. War and the mass will always be war and the mass.

So, could we rise the subject about the "abnormal" being a synonym of morality ?
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#145325 - 02/15/06 04:28 PM Re: I also would consider... [Re: Nemo]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Outstanding! I was thinking of the same thing, Magister.

Great film.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#145326 - 02/16/06 06:09 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: RandomStranger]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

"Others opinions on what is normal/abnormal. "

For what purpose? All that they are is opinion. What do you care
what other's opinions are?


I care what others opinions are because I learn new things that way.
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#145327 - 02/16/06 08:53 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: DeLamar_J]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
I find Boredom to be abnormal, but that is just my opinion.
"Hail Satan!"
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#145328 - 02/17/06 05:53 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: DeLamar_J]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
I prefer to see things a little differently. There is no "normal," but there certainly are norms . There are social norms, cultural norms, etc. I think it is important in lesser magic to understand this.

For example, if you are from the U.S., and wish to charm someone who grew up in Japan, you may want to understand the difference between a low-context and high-context culture. In a high-context culture (like Japan) eye contact is often considered rude, and only small children say "no." It is a social norm in Japan to insinuate, rather than be direct in communication.

just something to consider.
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They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#145329 - 02/17/06 07:18 PM Please... [Re: J. Hagalaz]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

It is a social norm in Japan to insinuate, rather than be direct in communication.




Please, sir. Could you be more general about that?

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#145330 - 02/17/06 09:52 PM Re: Please... [Re: Nemo]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Quote:

Quote:

It is a social norm in Japan to insinuate, rather than be direct in communication.




Please, sir. Could you be more general about that?




Sure, probably.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#145331 - 02/17/06 10:27 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: DeLamar_J]
Leviathan_Rising Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 81
Quote:

What is abnormal?...I don't really believe in normal or abnormal, because there really is no such thing unless you consider what the masses like or dont like.



That which is normal or natural is that which is consistent with one’s nature. Conversely, abnormal or unnatural behavior is that which suppresses or is inconsistent with one’s nature.
I honestly think that in order to understand the “norm” of the masses, one must come to understand human nature and behavior patterns on the individual level.
Quote:

Now, in the USA mass murder would be considered abnormal, because the mass of people do not like it. But when you have a whole society of people supporting mass murder, is it normal now?



When members of the largest portion of a population exhibit similar behavior with regard to the concept of morality, we see a trend or norm. In this regard, that which is the accepted norm is truly dictated by the majority.
Mass murder is as old as humanity: It was the norm during the militant expansion of Christianity and Islam; it was the norm in Germany during WWII; it is the current norm for the followers of Allah.
How many Muslims have decried the actions of their ‘fundamentalists’? I’m sure the blood of many in Africa would attest to the inaction of Islam’s majority.
Quote:

Back when Hitler was in power, he had many followers who supported his mass murder.



Surely we all have the capacity to disregard an unwanted portion of our societies. It is quite easy to turn a blind eye while those we don’t care for are forever wiped off the face of the earth.
_________________________
From the Deep,
~LR
==============================================================
"Ethical axioms are found and tested not very differently from the axioms of science. Truth is what stands the test of experience." -Einstein

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing. " -Emerson

"The freethinking of one age is the common sense of the next." -M. Arnold

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#145332 - 02/18/06 09:19 AM Re: Abnormal [Re: DeLamar_J]
d1g1t Offline


Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Southwest UK
What is normal?
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#145333 - 02/18/06 09:51 AM Re: Abnormal [Re: d1g1t]
Leviathan_Rising Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 81
Quote:

Main Entry: 1nor•mal
Pronunciation: 'nor-m&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin normalis, from norma
1 :Perpendicular; especially : perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2 a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3 : occurring naturally <normal immunity>
4 a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development b : free from mental disorder : Sane
5 a of a solution : having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen <normal silver phosphate> c : not associated <normal molecules> d : having a straight-chain structure <normal pentane> <normal butyl alcohol>
6 of a subgroup : having the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7 : relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution <normal approximation to the binomial distribution>
8 of a matrix : having the property of commutativity under multiplication by the transpose of the matrix each of whose elements is a conjugate complex number with respect to the corresponding element of the given matrix
synonym seeRegular




I tend to be referring to that which is natural when I use the word normal; however, the word seems to have been used several times in this thread in reference to a “type, standard, or regular pattern.”
_________________________
From the Deep,
~LR
==============================================================
"Ethical axioms are found and tested not very differently from the axioms of science. Truth is what stands the test of experience." -Einstein

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing. " -Emerson

"The freethinking of one age is the common sense of the next." -M. Arnold

Citizen

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#145334 - 02/18/06 11:37 AM Re: Abnormal [Re: Leviathan_Rising]
d1g1t Offline


Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 110
Loc: Southwest UK
heh, well that's one way of putting it

The point I'm trying to make is, nothing is normal. While our society may judge someone on their personality, an alien race may judge their people by the size of their big toe! There are thousands of different cultures and societies all around the world and throughout time, all different.

Normal doesn't exist, and neither does abnormal.
_________________________
Wise men do not share wisdom, they share opinion.

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#145335 - 02/18/06 01:58 PM Re: Abnormal [Re: d1g1t]
Leviathan_Rising Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 81
Quote:

While our society may judge someone on their personality, an alien race may judge their people by the size of their big toe! There are thousands of different cultures and societies all around the world and throughout time, all different.



Very succinct.



I can picture the large toed aliens dictating the norm to those with small, crooked toes.

Perhaps those with malformed big toes go about blowing themselves up to make a point, all the while believing that after their martyrdom their souls (or soles) would be taken to a place where there will be seventy-two beings waiting to show them big toes that have never before been seen by any other being.

Another portion of their society would believe that if they presented their big toes in certain manner their souls would live on after death in a wonderful big toe paradise where there are magnificent shoes designed just for them.

Certainly there would be others who go about trying to establish the average size, shape, and color of all big toes in order to understand the norm.

Were they to ask me for advice I would tell them, “Don’t waste your time looking at the big-toes of others. Why does the norm of all toes matter to you anyway? Focus on making your own big-toe into something that is incredible in your own eyes. Make your big toe into a great toe.”



Normal, when used as a category, is rather elusive.

"Hail Great Toes!"
_________________________
From the Deep,
~LR
==============================================================
"Ethical axioms are found and tested not very differently from the axioms of science. Truth is what stands the test of experience." -Einstein

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing. " -Emerson

"The freethinking of one age is the common sense of the next." -M. Arnold

Citizen

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