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#145543 - 02/15/06 07:31 PM Abortion
Ashke Offline


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 16
Loc: IL
I'm curious as to people's opinions on abortion, because I've heard so many different opinions on it, and a lot of people with the same backround have different opinions on it.

But yes... I am also curious about people's opinions on declawing cats. Because I've heard some people find it cruel.
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#145545 - 02/15/06 09:01 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
My parents declawed my precious Siamese because she was hurting the furniture and they had a problem declawing her. (they had this great idea that putting a sock on her head would make it easier). At first I was ok with the idea, because I thought they were just going to remove the claw root... Nope, the clipped off all her toe tips, and I was very upset I was only 11 at the time. They also threatened to put her to sleep because she kept peeing all over the place. So when I was 12 I took the time to actually try to train her (she being 10), and it worked. She stopped peeing and she learned a few tricks. I have my cat(Guinness) trained and I am working on socializing my iguana (now free ranged). I refuse to declaw either of them, because both are trained to sit there and have their nails clipped without a fuss. Chopping up an animal because you can't handle it, is mean.

Abortion: Is a very gross thing. I would never get one, though I would not stop someone from getting one. I wouldn't like them for a while, but it isn't my place to try and convince them. I have gotten into too many arguments over this issue no matter how many times I have explained it. Abortion is not natural and can have more adverse effects on the female body than if she were to carry it, I have had too many friends get them and watch them go through hell while their bodies tried to balance out, plus I would get attatched and motherly. If someone else wants to go and get one done, just don't tell me about it. The images make me yak.


Edited by tovasshi (02/15/06 09:03 PM)
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#145546 - 02/15/06 09:02 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Tyrson Offline


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
I believe that is best left to Woman involved. And that no one has the right to dictate or impose their moral values on another.

Hail
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#145547 - 02/15/06 09:06 PM Re: Declawing cats. [Re: ]
Tyrson Offline


Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
It is mutilation. Now if a person chooses to do what they will to themselves that is all together another thing.

Hail
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#145548 - 02/15/06 09:07 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Obolisk Offline


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 30
Quote:

I'm curious as to people's opinions on abortion, because I've heard so many different opinions on it, and a lot of people with the same backround have different opinions on it.



Indifference. If a woman wants one she should have access to it. It should be available on a legal balancing test, unrestricted first tri, regulated second tri, and for defects or medical necessity third tri. Information is power, I don't think the fed. gag order should be tolerated or the Dr. / Patient relationship should be invaded. I know I want my doctor to tell me everything when I ask him, not just the crap that Bush approves.


Quote:

But yes... I am also curious about people's opinions on declawing cats. Because I've heard some people find it cruel.



Again, indifference. Personally I wouldn't do it. You declaw it, you keep it in the house so that it doesn't need what you took from it. Take responsibility for what you do.

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#145549 - 02/15/06 10:23 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
I think people who declaws cats should be aborted...
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#145550 - 02/16/06 05:31 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Old_Pig]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
I would certainly like to know the legal ramifications of a 90th trimester abortion in that case
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#145551 - 02/16/06 07:39 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Quote:

because I've heard so many different opinions on it, and a lot of people with the same backround have different opinions on it.





That might be because Satanists are individuals above all else.

Abortion is one of the many issues where there is a third side. That third side is to avoid pregnancy, therefore negating the question.

Despite what one hears, very few pregnancys are "accidental." Almost all forms of birth control are 92%-98% effective per event of sexual intercourse. The person who gets pregnant on the pill or shot or even condoms used with spermicide should play Lotto.

Personally I am both pro-choice and, unlike most, pro-abortion in certain cases. The need for legal abortion, in my opinion, outweighs the moral problems people may have. If someone isn't smart enough to use protection, they probably aren't smart enough to be a decent parent.

In my perfect world all babies would be reversibly sterilized at birth. Upon majority or marriage they would undergo genetic testing and make informed choices regarding breeding.

Y~
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#145552 - 02/16/06 09:06 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Shiva Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 2762
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
On abortion, I'm pro-choice. Then again, I'm also bias on the subject because if it hadn't been for an emergency abortion I would not be here to write this.

While I loathe the type of people who regularly use abortion instead of birth control, I do believe people should have the right to make that choice. Recently I knew someone who elected to terminate her pregnancy because there were detected abnormalities. She chose not to bring a greatly disadvantaged child into the world and I understand that completely.

As far as declawing cats go, for the most part I am against it. But again, I do believe that there are exceptions to be made. For example, I'm seriously considering having one of my cats declawed. The reason for this is simply because she has six toes on each foot, and the claw on one of the extra digits has a tendency to curl underneath and embed itself into her paw. When I see her start hobbling, it's a Hell of a process to hold her down and literally saw through the claw to remove the sharp tip that is stuck in her flesh.

So despite my distaste for the process, I probably will end up taking her in for the procedure.
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#145553 - 02/16/06 09:30 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
These days it is very easy to prevent pregnancy -- we even have the Morning-After pill.

I am not against abortion completely though, there are N cases where the best choice would be not to bring a child into the world: diseases, deffects, rape victims, young age, poverty, etc: a number of cases that cannot always be predicted.

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#145554 - 02/16/06 10:17 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
>>I'm curious as to people's opinions on abortion, because
>>I've heard so many different opinions on it,

My overall view on abortion? It's the most overly-tiresome political issue that has much more to do with sensationalism, self-righteousness, and second agenda-pushing, than with actual solutions, reasoning or science. Jesus freaks and left-wings alike just jump on whichever side they've been told to jump on, just like how it is with other sensationalist issues like gun control and captial punishment. You can probably go to any internet forum, ask the same question, and have a thread of flame wars that goes on for 4 weeks.

Regarding being "pro-choice" or "pro-life", I wrote a short article on this for The Trident. In summary, all that these titles really mean is whether or not one is in favor of having laws that outlaw abortion. People who are in favor of such laws are by definition "pro-life"; people (like myself) who aren't are by definition "pro-choice". The action one would personally take regarding a pregnancy is irrelevent to the terminology.

I also don't buy the idea of this being strictly "a woman's issue". If the law is going to make a man pay child support for a child that he never wanted, I certainly think that men should have some say when it comes to terminating a pregnancy. Especially since there are some cruel women out there who will use things like pregnancy to keep a boyfriend from breaking up.

>>I am also curious about people's opinions on declawing
>>cats.

It's not something I personally condone, but Satan knows the thought has crossed my mind when certain cats have jumped on my lap and used me as a human pin cushion. Is it worse than chopping a cats balls off? I don't know. I'm not even a pet owner.

>>If someone else wants to go and get one done, just
>>don't tell me about it. The images make me yak. [tovasshi]

Are you refering to images of 3rd-trimester abortions like the ones you see in propaganda films like "The Silent Scream"? Otherwise, I can't imagine your run of the mill abortion slide-shows being any more gross than an appendix removal.
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#145555 - 02/16/06 11:15 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Ygraine]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
If someone isn't smart enough to use protection, they probably aren't smart enough to be a decent parent.

In my perfect world all babies would be reversibly sterilized at birth. Upon majority or marriage they would undergo genetic testing and make informed choices regarding breeding.


Bingo, and bingo.

Naturally, I endorse contraception (and even abstinence, if that's what it takes) more emphatically and heartily than abortion, because a) it's better to prevent that problem in the first place and b) The "it could've been Hitler or Beethoven" puzzle makes me the *teensiest bit* philosophically ambivalent about abortion, even though I'm still firmly pro-choice and, in various cases, unapologetically pro-abortion. Suffice it to say, abortion isn't "wheeee, fun," so it's better to just take the pill and put on a condom and not have to deal with all the personal, emotional, physical, ethical, economic, and philosophical baggage that comes along, or could come along, with having to get an abortion.

Assorted people should not be allowed or encouraged to have children, and certainly, no one should be forced to have a child, because this puts strains on the parents, the child, and on the rest of the world.

And yes, it would be a whole lot better if people could just be reversibly sterilized at birth, or even before.
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#145556 - 02/16/06 02:30 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Bill_M]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
>>Are you refering to images of 3rd-trimester abortions like the ones you see in propaganda films like "The Silent Scream"? Otherwise, I can't imagine your run of the mill abortion slide-shows being any more gross than an appendix removal.<<

No, I never saw any propaganda of any kind for pro-lifers. What I know is what my friends have told me about their experiences. I had about five friends get them and each one decided it was cool to tell me about it. At first I was interested in learning these things, because medical procedures interest me. After hearing a few stories and what they went through... Ugh, no more. The problem is, a lot of them have a guilt complex and feel the need to get graphic... very graphic... and they never talk about the abortus, just their bodies and the equipment used. One of my friends lied about how far along she was and that didn't go to well...

My choice to never have one has nothing to do with this however. I am hormonally sensative, pregnancy, let alone abortion, could send me into seizures and potentially kill me. Abortion for me would be even more dangerous.


Edited by tovasshi (02/16/06 02:54 PM)
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#145557 - 02/16/06 03:11 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Shiva]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6344
Would the vet be able to do a partial declawing to remove the extra claw on each foot?
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#145558 - 02/16/06 03:20 PM Re: Abortion [Re: tovasshi]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

... and they never talk about the abortus, just their bodies and the equipment used. One of my friends lied about how far along she was and that didn't go to well...




That sounds rather odd because you can´t lie to a doctor -- for one tests are made before operation begins, also, general anesthesia is applied in cases of abortion, before you reach the count of ten you black out: no surgery equipment is ever usually seen by the patient.

Also, you can either be interested in medical procedure or feel like yak. Both is not exactly physically possible to occur.

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