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#145604 - 02/18/06 01:24 PM Re: Altogether now! [Re: Poetaster]
Wile_E_Quixote Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 2493
Monty Python. Its in their 'Meaning Of Life' film.

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#145605 - 02/18/06 04:19 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Poetaster]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
I'm sorry aborted was the word I was looking for, not harmed.

Oopsy!

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#145606 - 02/18/06 05:26 PM Re: Abortion [Re: tovasshi]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
The procedure of any surgery done legally, would never depend on whether it takes place at a hospital or a clinic, no-where in the Western World as fas as I´m concerned.

The only differences that exist in between health service establishments are governmental, and not differences in medical practices nor procedures.

Clinics may be specialized, hospitals are of general practice, yet a medical practitioner operating on either has studied same books and is bound by same laws.

What you have described doesn´t sound like a legal procedure.

Sure there are abortions done with coat-hangers at any close dark alley, and sure they in these cases will recommend you throw salt wherever, but don´t make the mistake of assuming all abortion procedures or any surgery procedures for that matter are done illegally.

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#145607 - 02/18/06 08:31 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746

I would suggest considering adoption to a woman who has a heathly baby but does not want it. There are plenty of woman who can't have children who would take care of the baby instead of needlessly ending it's life.

I would also suggest abortion to to woman who was raped or had a baby that would be born abnormal.

It depends on the situation if I am for or against it.

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#145608 - 02/18/06 10:19 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Globe_Dasher Offline


Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 24
Loc: U.S.
When I think of either of these things, abortion or de-clawing, happening to me, I don’t like it. That is why I will not have any part of doing these things to another animal, depending on some circumstances.

With abortion: incest, rape, or danger to the mother or child, seem acceptable to me. I haven’t thought of any other allowances.

With de-clawing, the cat would have to be pretty dangerous for me to think of that, but if it were that dangerous, I’d take it to the humane society.
_________________________
Those who don't build must burn. It's as old as history and juvenile delinquents.
~ Fahrenheit 451 (Faber)

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#145609 - 02/18/06 10:19 PM The law of responsability [Re: CWH]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Yes.

Now all is about the parent's responsability, and they should be responsible before acting....

if not, this is how some cannot assume a child, and it's like they are writting his destiny :" my son/girl, you'll be a loser, we cannot pay for anything, but welcome to the jungle".

Well in that case, I truly think that this will "kill" more the child in his life than abortion itself. You know what I mean.

I understand women now, abortion could be a shock.
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Has left the board.

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#145610 - 02/19/06 12:05 AM Re: Abortion [Re: tovasshi]
Noxilenticus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Hell
Human rights, oh boy what a topic. Let's see what are my thoughts on abortion... Well throughout existence if a woman just didn't want her child she'd just kill it or leave it to die. Now in our new age 21st century with all our great technology we can kill the little buggers before they even develop. So what do I suggest about abortion? I suggest that those that don’t want to have kids get abortions at their own discretion. If they don’t want to go through the pains of labor, regardless of whatever stage they are in, it should be perfectly legal for them to get one. This should not be such a big issue to people. If it is too expensive or illegal in the future, then have the child and mail it to those that feel they need to impose on your decision making abilities. Let them waste their resources taking care of your child if it is so important to them. On the flipside, if you don’t want them to brainwash your child into being a sheep, maybe you would be better off just murdering it. Before, during, or after the pregnancy is pretty much irrelevant to me. Only when a child starts to have a later stage developed neurology should this be of any issue to debate whether killing a human organism is ok or not.


The issue of removing cat claws is even far more ridiculous. This is like asking if it is inhumane to remove the foreskin of a male’s penis when they are born. The animals are already “house pets”. They are not meant for the wild any longer. You only keep them enslaved to the environment you have replaced them with. Do what you wish with your slaves. You have already changed their lives so drastically it really doesn’t matter.

Quote:

Chopping up an animal because you can't handle it, is mean.




I think it is far more mean that you keep it as a pet to play with its worthless existence, catering to your emotional needs, rather than just letting it die by natural selection. Slaves are property. I don’t think it should be illegal for one to tell someone else what they can or can’t do with their slaves. Therefore I am going to have to say let people remove their cat’s claws if they want to.
_________________________
"Satanists are epicurean, skeptical atheists who see Satan as a symbol of pride, individualism, and the quality of questioning all dogmas. The word in Hebrew means 'adversary' and so we are each 'Satans' to the doctrines that would have people use faith instead of reason to understand the universe in which we live. Our goal is to enjoy this, the only life we have and not waste it in anticipation of a mythical afterlife or an imagined apocalypse." - News 31 May, XLI A.S. in Reguards to The Satanic High Mass that happened on 6/6/6

- Noxilenticus Zodameranu

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#145611 - 02/19/06 04:47 AM Re: Abortion [Re: Bill_M]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Polarizing topics like this really seem to bring out the differences between the upstairs and downstairs users. It's heartening to see the value of commitment so dramatically vindicated.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#145612 - 02/19/06 04:47 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Well, I was hoping I still had the essay I wrote on this topic for a philosophy course I took years ago, but unfortunately it has long been deleted. In it I backed up my claims and conclusions with statistical data (such as adoption rates, etcetera).

Anyway, that essay dealt with whether abortion should be LEGAL or not - which is not what is being asked here. I would like to point out, though, that my stance on abortion is an INFORMED opinion. In fact, my feelings on the subject changed while writing that paper.

My view on abortion truly is the Satanic third side! It was formed after reviewing and considering valid arguments made both for and against abortion.

My stance on abortion is that it is a necessary evil. I believe that abortion is a horrible practice that is only an acceptable option in the following circumstances:

a) When carrying the pregnancy to-term may result in serious harm or death to the mother. Regardless of when a fertilized egg is considered a human, the rights of the living always outweigh the rights of ‘potential life’.

b) When the pregnancy is a result of rape. A child born of rape is a constant reminder of the crime forcing the victim to perpetually recall the horrible experience. There have been documented cases of rape victims treating the innocent child as the offender– seriously neglecting and/or abusing the child. *

c) When birth control was used and failed resulting in an unwanted pregnancy. Of course, this rarely should happen as all forms of birth control, if used properly, are at least 99.0% effective** .

d) When the parent(s) are not financially able or mentally fit to care for the child. There are too many low-lives sucking up taxpayer dollars already!! (Social Welfare programs are an entirely different discussion and I’m not about to get into it here…I will be writing a post about this shortly.)

Abortions should not be performed for any other reason. Abortion is not, and should not be used as, birth control. Responsibility to the responsible - if you chose to indulge in the pleasures of the flesh then you must take responsibility for the consequences of such actions.

As long as you are financially able to care for a baby then you must care for that baby - not simply 'eliminate the problem'. If that means putting YOUR life on hold for eighteen years, SO BE IT!

Of course, putting a child up for adoption IS always an option, but according to the 1995-1997 adoption statistics I studied for my original essay, only around a third of children put up for adoption are actually adopted. Most of them end up becoming wards of the state and then thrown out on the streets when they turn 18. And this creates more social problems (see point d above).

I will try to find up-to-date adoption statistics and post them.

* Of course, there are also many cases of rape victims loving and cherishing their child as if it was planned and wanted. I am by no means saying that rape-babies should be aborted – but rather abortion is a valid option in the event of a pregnancy caused by rape.

** It is important to note, ladies, that alcohol and/or tobacco use drastically reduces the effectiveness of birth control pills, patches, and injections. Also, condoms do, albeit rarely, break.
_________________________
Hail Satan!


SETI@Home Team

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#145613 - 02/19/06 05:16 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
I feel that if you are unable to give a child a good life (excluding just being a lazy wuss), then, for the child’s sake, it should be aborted as soon as possible. But if you ARE able to take care of a child, then you should have the child and give it a good life.

I don’t think a child yet has a consciousness in the early stages of growth. I think that if a child has not been fully developed and it does not yet have a consciousness, then, after the abortion, the consciousness that WOULD HAVE developed into that child would just develop into a different child of a different parent that would actually be good for that child to have as a parent.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#145614 - 02/21/06 01:02 PM Re: Abortion [Re: False_Messiah78]
PatternPop Offline


Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 2
I don't think you should abort no matter what. You can always put the child up for adoption.
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#145615 - 02/21/06 02:23 PM Re: Abortion [Re: PatternPop]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

I don't think you should abort no matter what. You can always put the child up for adoption.




Wow, you sound like an expert.
_________________________




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#145616 - 02/21/06 02:40 PM Re: Never? [Re: PatternPop]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Ever? Really? You cannot conceive of any reason to ever abort? I can, several in fact. What if the woman’s life is in danger, and don’t give me that argument that she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant in the first place! What if she did use birth control and she still got pregnant? Health problems can come upon you when you least expect it, you cannot predict such things. What if the child will not live or be horribly deformed or mentally retarded. What if the woman is mentally unstable, has been molested or raped by, oh I don’t know… let’s say her father, what if she is only a child herself and could not prevent the rape or molestation? Should she be forced to carry and give birth to this child possibly endangering her health, both mental and physical?

Can you really not conceive of a reason to abort at all?

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#145617 - 02/21/06 03:30 PM Re: Abortion [Re: PatternPop]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

I don't think you should abort no matter what. You can always put the child up for adoption.




A mealy-mouthed, bleeding-heart sentiment if ever I've seen one.

It doesn't appear from your one sentence response that you've truly considered anything; with the exception of your knee-jerk reaction.

Looks can be deceiving, but in this case I doubt it.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#145618 - 02/21/06 03:48 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Ashke]
Sentinel Offline


Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 14
Loc: Ohio
I feel that it is up to the mother entirly, being that fact that only experianced mothers or pregnant "soon to bees" have the right to say weather or not it is right. We as men will never be able to experiance it so you have the catholic men saying that its wrong and the liberals saying its ok. Personaly I think we as men dont really have a say seeing as how we only plant the seed and then we are done. So basicaly its up to you weather or not you want to go to the wire hanger factory or not, either way its none of my business what you do.

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