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#147497 - 02/24/06 10:06 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I personally like Dr. LaVey’s advice on women protecting themselves. It is highly creative and effective. I have several pairs of stiletto heels made for just such occasions.

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#147498 - 02/24/06 10:08 PM Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: DarkApollyon]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12572
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
This is an issue with me so please do not take this personally.

Learning the very few truly effective strikes and kicks to use in self defense is easy.

Those of you who are members are encouraged to look into the SIG devoted to this issue.

You do not need to spends hours at a gym or dojo learning how to strike with a closed fist or perform kicks.

You need only spend a few minutes going over a few very simple ideas and then reviewing these from time to time.

For example, why train to use a fist at all? Don't. Why?

Look at any wall.

How hard can you slam that wall with your closed fist without breaking your hand?

Now consider how hard you can hit it with your open palm.

There really is no comparison is there?

Perhaps I will follow through on my intention to create a short booklet on "startle-reflex self defense".

Most people will not take the time and effort to spend months and years learning a martial art.

And all together too many martial arts are stuck into teaching things that either don't work or do not teach the things that work better.

I taught self defense arts for years to many people.

The best and most effective techniques take only a few minutes to learn.

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.

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#147499 - 02/24/06 10:14 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

You have raised some very important points!

Quote:

Also what I think is often missed, is how to prepare yourself for when you can not get away. How will you let it affect you as a person? Will you remain a victim and scared for the rest of your life?




An old friend of mine was caught out some years ago, she did all she could to get away (even crushing her ankle - requiring pins for a couple years after in the process). She was a very attractive girl previously, who afterwards deliberately allowed herself to become quite obese in the aim of preventing it from happening again. She is still the victim, and chooses to not deal with the issue, even still refusing counselling.

Quote:

However I am not going to let some person ruin living life to the fullest.




Another good point. One should not be scared in that they miss out on life in any manner. A sensible level of precaution is in order, the level of course is up to the individual.

Some time back through work I saw some statistics of successful rape convictions in the state I reside and was shocked by the incredibly low percentage (<30% from memory). There are numerous reasons for this, each which need addressing. Some causes ones being:

1. Rapes not being reported

2. Victims showering before presenting to police or a hospital
Understandable need, but education (which is severely lacking) could help here.

3. GPs incorrectly collecting and handling evidence. Again, education regarding procedure should be made more available.

Because rape can be a very taboo topic, it is generally only discussed after the fact. Some general education in rape prevention would go a long way.




I reported my rape, a year or so after the guy moved away. I didnt really understand what happened was wrong until I got a little older (I was in midddle school and it went on for years..). I didnt press charges but I want it to be on file for when he does it again(im sure he will.... *sigh*). its so aggrivating. He violated a ton of girls in his day im sure, the ones I knew about I named in my police report, but the police didnt call any of them. I really disliked the way I was treated by the police- like I was a whiner. and they kept calling me back into the station to talk to the dectective even though I had told the same goddamned story like 3 times on the night I initially filed the report.


I dont think there is much desicion involved in how it affects you, especially at first. I am a strong believer that you cant really control how you feel- you can only repress it, which is unhealthy. How you deal with it is where the choice lies, but even that is tough. Many people in the mental health industry are not very good at what they do, even disrespectful and judgemental sometimes. I refused therapy after a few sessions, because it didnt really help. I made a fuckload of art the following few years after the assaults, and that helped a lot more than a talk doctor. They probably would have given me a bunch of prozac if I had stayed, but I am glad I delt with it my way. I went the opposite way of your friend- I dieted like crazy to be unnatractive rather than eating more. It made me feel safe for awhile, it was more of a phase than a long term choice. It helped, thats for sure. It all worked out ok, but it took a long time to vent all the feelings I had twards what happened.
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#147500 - 02/24/06 10:28 PM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

Perhaps I will follow through on my intention to create a short booklet on "startle-reflex self defense".

Most people will not take the time and effort to spend months and years learning a martial art.

And all together too many martial arts are stuck into teaching things that either don't work or do not teach the things that work better.

I taught self defense arts for years to many people.

The best and most effective techniques take only a few minutes to learn.

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.




I would be one of those people interested in such a booklet. I did study Okinawan Isshinryu Karate many years ago, and I still remember some of the simple self defense principles taught. I remember the sensei teaching us to use whatever we had at hand in an emergency, such as keys and going for the eyes, or stamping as hard as possible on a person's instep if they are holding you from behind. (Again doing it with as much force as possible the first time is the key, you have the element of surprise on your side.)

Still, it was a long time ago, and a booklet that gives important quick things to practice or know about in any given situation would be worth its weight in gold.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#147501 - 02/25/06 01:39 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Maya]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Right on the groin, but I don't know if I'd count on the nose. I've been hit in the nose hundreds of times for various reasons (boxing, concerts, running into things, etc) and it's not terribly painful. There is potential for high variance between individuals of pain tolerance, so merely inflicting pain is a gamble.

I do, however, strongly suggest hitting the throat. Not grasping, but punching or chopping, right on the front where your air passage is exposed. Doing this will send a shock through your body that cannot be avoided; also, people instinctually guard their face but probably don't expect throat attacks.

Whatever you hit, run like Hell into the nearest open store or public place after doing it!
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#147502 - 02/25/06 08:33 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: mattevans]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

Martial arts help but you have to remember that with a lot of training there are rules. In a genuine situation there are none.




I quite agree!

My Taekwondo instructor does teach the difference between them (eg. always going for the groin before using a release technique if you are grabbed in a real situation).

Unfortunately a lot of the techniques you would find most effective in a 'real' confrontation can only be practised on pads in classes due to the injury risk (- for example groin kicks, spiked punches to the eyes and stamping through someones knee)
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#147503 - 02/25/06 08:40 AM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
I do not take this personally Magister Nemo, and believe you are right - the main reason I practise Taekwondo is for all round fitness and because I enjoy it. It would be folly to train for several hours a week 'just in case I was ever attacked'!

Your idea of a straightforward and concise booklet sounds a remarkably good one to me!
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#147504 - 02/25/06 09:05 AM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

How hard can you slam that wall with your closed fist without breaking your hand?

Now consider how hard you can hit it with your open palm.




I'm not sure of that answer, but I'm sure that I can make a hole with my punch, not with my palm. Remember Kill Bill Vol. 2

Quote:

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.




That is a good thing to consider, even more with the cost of medical care and advocate.

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#147505 - 02/25/06 11:10 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Just too long for my taste, fights are fast things.

Women and kids have only too remember one thing, never to be afraid in a public place. This is the attackers who are taking the risk, and they will certainly chose to the frigthly victims. This is just animal instinct, nothing more. Why people play with crocodiles while must get killed by them? Fear.

As for rape, I agree that most cases doesn't happen in the open, with random strangers. Girls go to a bar, talk with someone who she just doesn't know and is certainly too sweet to have nothing behind his mind. Than the girl thinks that all this sweetest is because he has fallen in love with her, the big story. Isn't a cliché? Or the girls who just stick with boys and always refuses herself to their advance, knowing quite their intentions. This is the stupidy of the uncareful.

The only exception where self-defense tricks can be useful is with the psychopath, the sociopath, the insane, the serial rapist. But they little in number, so much a social exception, that encountering one is quite improbable.

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#147506 - 02/25/06 11:51 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

Right on the groin, but I don't know if I'd count on the nose. I've been hit in the nose hundreds of times for various reasons (boxing, concerts, running into things, etc) and it's not terribly painful. There is potential for high variance between individuals of pain tolerance, so merely inflicting pain is a gamble.

I do, however, strongly suggest hitting the throat. Not grasping, but punching or chopping, right on the front where your air passage is exposed. Doing this will send a shock through your body that cannot be avoided; also, people instinctually guard their face but probably don't expect throat attacks.

Whatever you hit, run like Hell into the nearest open store or public place after doing it!




Indeed, pain tolerance is highly variable. A strike to the nose isn't so bad if it does minimal damage, but a break is a different story.

Thank you for adding the throat. I completely forgot about that! A swift strike to the throat can be quite effective in stunning someone.

In reference to Magister Nemo's reply, I quite agree with you about using an open palm as opposed to a closed fist. When I studied martial arts when I was younger, I always used a open palm for board-breaking. The reason is exactly as you described. One is much less likely to injure oneself using an open palm as opposed to a closed fist, not to mention the fact that it is easier to exert the force of one's whole body with an open palm strike. I don't know why. I also agree with you that the best self-defense techniques are the ones that only take a few minutes to learn. Learning how to defend oneself need not take a long time. Of course, long-term study of the martial arts has its own benefits.

In reference to Scarlet's reply, a stiletto heel can indeed be a useful weapon; even more so because most attackers would not expect it. My own version of this comes in the form of a steel-toed work boot. It's not sexy, but a good kick to a man's groin with one of those puppies can be very effective.

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#147507 - 02/25/06 12:02 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:


As for rape, I agree that most cases doesn't happen in the open, with random strangers. Girls go to a bar, talk with someone who she just doesn't know and is certainly too sweet to have nothing behind his mind. Than the girl thinks that all this sweetest is because he has fallen in love with her, the big story. Isn't a cliché? Or the girls who just stick with boys and always refuses herself to their advance, knowing quite their intentions. This is the stupidy of the uncareful.






woah, what? care to explain this?
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One stupid post too many.

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#147508 - 02/25/06 12:31 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Most rapes don't happen because a girl went to a bar, that is a foolish statement! 4 out of every 5 rapes take place in a woman’s home or at a school, and only 1 will be by a stranger. And I don't know any women who met a guy in a bar and thought he was sweet and that he was in love with her all in one night!

Self-defense is far more useful then you have stated and with just about any type of an attacker, and if a woman is smart she will learn self defense and use it. You may get hurt, you may even die but chances are it would happen even if you didn't fight back! Do not buy into the stereotypical belief that a woman cannot fight a stronger, bigger man; or that you won’t get hurt if you don’t fight, it isn't true and never was!

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#147509 - 02/25/06 01:56 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

Most rapes don't happen because a girl went to a bar, that is a foolish statement! 4 out of every 5 rapes take place in a woman’s home or at a school, and only 1 will be by a stranger. And I don't know any women who met a guy in a bar and thought he was sweet and that he was in love with her all in one night!




I never said most rapes, I just enumerated two situations where girls are really playing with fire and can have easily avoid being rape just by being a little more careful. Rapes which happen at home (by a relative, if I understand), is quite another story and neither force nor care can be used in that case). This is a family problem.

Maybe your friends are more intelligent to not fall in love in a bar, but I'm sure it happens more often than not. That doesn't have to be the big love. Just an interest strong enough by the girl which makes her lower her defence in front of someone who she barely knows. But I'm still thinking to youg girl since I doubt more women are so naive.

In if rapes happen often at school where you live, than a school in your location is certainly harsher than any schools I have ever attended.

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#147510 - 02/25/06 02:30 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
In their home does not mean by a family member, and school is in the context of Colleges, or perhaps you haven't heard of these statistics! Learn your subject before making this type of statement because believe me, I know this subject better then most people!

Unless you have been a rape victim or a rapist it is unlikely that you would understand much of what is behind this type of crime, and even then you rarely understand it fully. You may wish to do a little research on the truth behind the preconceived ideas of what causes rape or the statistics of when and where rapes and violence against women occur, and the likeliness of it happening. According to the FBI, and yes I spend a great deal of time talking to these individuals, fewer then 300 reported rapes a year occur due to the female being in the wrong place alone such as a bar, or any place of this type. Most reported rapes in the US are date rapes or spousal rape and usually happen after a female has dated or been married to a man for several weeks, months, and in some cases, years. This type of crime happens to women of all ages regardless of intelligence, financial standing, religion, education, age or personal habits.

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#147511 - 02/25/06 03:12 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Well, if I understood in the context of Colleges, you mean outside the Colleges by people who were going to Colleges. College parties. Aren't somehow similar to bar? Isn't fully of people the would be victims doesn't know, aside from passing by them in Colleges? As for date rape, isn't similar to a girl who sticks with boys, are fully aware of their sexual desire, but keep refusing? They can be counted statiscally as two different situations, but haven't they have many things in common? Some woman who just is careless, following boys.

If you are so well versed in that subject, you should be aware of Super Free, the rape club in Japan. Yes it was involving young students. But I conceit that young students weren't blind by promises of love (how innocent am I to think young student search love!!!), but by promises of having the opportunity to meet young, strong and rich boys. They were rape outside, after being drunk with 90% proof vodka and following a bunch of boys outside, alone.

As for date rape, how many women finished by being fucked and left out. The difference is that have sexual intercourse thinking that the man is serious, while other wait, wait ... wait just too much. It would be interesting to know how many times these women raped after many weeks of date have refused sexual advance before actually being forced to act.

As for bar rapes in particular, maybe this is the type of rape which is the less reported. Well, 58% of rapes are unreported, according to this site : http://www.rainn.org/statistics/. That leaves many places for speculation.

But my point wasn't so more to make a portrait of rape but that care and the ability to know one's intention beyong the veil of promises is a stronger arm for women than self defence tricks in the case of rapes, except for marital rape. Though I agree it doesn't make the crime less important.

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