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#147467 - 02/23/06 09:28 PM Self Defence For Women And Children
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Great article from martialtalk.com. Thought I'd share.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back tail
lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy.
The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.



(1.) The three reasons women are easy targets for random acts of
violence are:

(a.) Lack of Awareness: You MUST know where you are & what's going on
around you.

(b.) Body Language: Keep your head up, swing your arms, stand straight up.

(c.) Wrong Place, Wrong Time: DON'T walk alone in an alley, or drive in a
bad neighborhood at night.

(2.) Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating,
working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list,
etc.).
DON'T DO THIS! The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect
opportunity for him to get in the passenger side, put a gun to your head,
and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS
AND LEAVE.

(a.) A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking
garage: Be aware: look around you, look into your car, at the passenger
side floor, and in the back seat.

(b.) If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger
door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their
vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

(c.) Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the
passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car,
you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard/policeman
to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (Better
paranoid than dead.)

(3.) ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are
horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

(a.) Do not get on an elevator if there is a weirdo already on there.
(Of course bad men don't always look bad).

(b.) Do not stand back in the corners of the elevator; be near the front,
by the doors, ready to get off or on.

(c.) If you get on the elevator on the 25th floor, and the Boogie Man gets
on the 22nd, get off when he gets on and wait for another elevator.

(4) If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS
RUN!

(a.) Police make only 4 of 10 shots when they are in range of 3-9
feet. This is due to stress.

(b.) The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times.
And even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN!

(5.) As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP IT! It may get
you raped, or killed.

(a.) Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good looking, well-educated man,
who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with
a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his

vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

(b.) Pat Malone told us the story of his daughter, who came out of the mall
and was walking to her car when she noticed 2 older ladies in front of
her. Then she saw a police car come towards her with cops who said
hello. She also noticed that all 8 handicap spots in the area were
empty. As she neared her car she saw a man a few rows over calling to her
for help. He wanted her to close his passenger side door. He was sitting
in the driver's side, and said he was handicapped. He continued calling,
until she turned and headed back to the mall, and then he began cursing at
her. In the meantime, she wondered why he didn't ask the 2 older
ladies, or
the policeman for help, and why he was not parked in any of the empty
handicap
spots. As she got back to the mall, two male friends of hers were exiting,
and as she told them the story, and turned to point at the car, the man was
in the back seat, and quickly moved back to the front and sped away.

(6.). Tips to saving your life, if you have gotten into a violent
situation:

(a.) REACT IMMEDIATELY. If he abducts you in a parking lot, and is taking
you to an abandoned area, DON'T LET HIM GET YOU TO THAT AREA. If you are
driving, react immediately in the situation, and crash your car while still
going 5 mph. If he's driving, find the right time, and stick your fingers
in his eyes. He must watch the road, so choose an unsuspecting time, and
gouge him. It is your ONLY defense. While he is in shock, GET OUT.
(This sounds gross, but the alternative is your fault if you do not act.)

(b.) RESIST. Don't go along with him: run, if you are able: DON'T EVER
GIVE UP! You DO NOT want to get to a crime scene.

(7.) Always keep your distance when walking past strangers on the street or
in dark areas.

(8.) BREAK DOWNS: Make every effort to avoid this by ALWAYS keeping your
car in good working order.

(a.) If your car breaks down and you have a cell phone: LOCK YOUR DOORS.
Then call for help.

(b.) If it's noon on a business day in a populated area, you may want to
put your hazards on and walk to safety.

(c.) If it's 2am near a populated area, put on your warm clothes, and walk
to a lighted area. You are a perfect target if you are sitting in your car
when it's broken down. Predators search the highways for easy targets like
you.

(d.) If you're on a desolate road: walk away from the car (in your warm
clothes) and go to some bushes, or some area AWAY from your vehicle. It
will be cold, and uncomfortable, but you DO NOT want to stay in your car,
and there are no psycho bogeymen waiting in the bushes who just knew you
were going to break down there and then.

(9.) Physical defenses that we can use against the violent predator:

(a.) The EYES are the most vulnerable part of the body. Poke him there.
HARD. It may be your only window of opportunity.

(b.) The neck is also a vulnerable spot, but you MUST know where to grip,
AND HAVE THE STRENGTH to cut off his breath.

(c.) The last place is the KNEES. Everyone's knees are very vulnerable,
and a swift kick here will take anyone down.

-- A cautionary note about these things. If you do not do these things
right the first time, you are in trouble, because it will only anger the
individual, and that anger will be TAKEN OUT ON YOU. I'm not saying don't
attempt them (it may be your only hope), but be forceful when you do.

(10.) If you are walking alone in the dark (which you shouldn't be) and you
find him following/chasing you:

(a.) Scream "FIRE!", and not, "Help!". People don't want to get involved
when people yell "help," but "fire" draws attention because people are
nosy.

(b.) RUN!

(c.) Find an obstacle, such as a parked car, and run around it, like Ring
Around the Rosie. This may sound silly, but over the years, 5 women have
told Pat Malone that this SAVED THEIR LIVES.

(d.) Your last hope is getting under the car. Once you are under there,
there are tons of things to hold on to, and he will not be able to get you
out unless he comes under after you (which makes it easier for you to
escape or fend him off). Usually they give up by this point. The catch
here is that YOU MUST PRACTICE GETTING UNDER THE CAR. You must have a plan
(he will have one); know if you will be going on your back, front, from the
side or back of the car. It must be practiced.

(11.) Never let yourself or anyone that you know be a "closer" in any type
of business (bar, store, restaurant, gas station). Pat knew Danielle, who
was a girl that just died from being shot pointblank by some kids while she
was closing at the local gas station. He talked with her the night before
she died, and asked whether it ever scared her to close alone.
She said yes, but said, "I'll be all right, Pat. I'll be all right." She
wasn't.

Our world is not as safe as we pretend that it is, and living in our
fantasy worlds WILL get us in trouble, sooner or later. Pat Malone said,
again and again, that the women who die EVERY MINUTE from violent crime
expected to go to bed tonight, and get up tomorrow = No one expects it, we
must but be prepared and be aware so that we HAVE A PLAN. BE PREPARED TO
ACT! AND ACT HARD! HAVE A PLAN!

I would encourage you to pass this on to all women, not just your friends
and family, but everybody. We all need to hear it.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147468 - 02/23/06 09:50 PM Re: Self Defence [Re: DeLamar_J]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
When stopping behind another vehicle be certain you can see the bottoms of their back tires. This leaves you sufficient room to maneuver in the event of an attempted car jacking.

Quote:

(a.) Police make only 4 of 10 shots when they are in range of 3-9 feet. This is due to stress.




Not true. It is due to the training of police in inferior shooting techniques. Those who train in Fairbairn's combat-proven WWII pistol methods have an incredibly higher score.

However this being almost a "lost art" with civilians means that the advice to run is still very wise.

I would also add that you need to work out in advance what you will do with others (spouse, children) in the event of an assault. Usually the best ideas is for everyone to run in different directions and to call 911 asap. This runs counter to what most people will do intuitively (wife stays to try and defend husband - both get killed) so try to work out some plan that is likely to actually be followed.

Church members might consider the SIG devoted to this issue.

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#147469 - 02/23/06 10:42 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:






(1.) The three reasons women are easy targets for random acts of
violence are:

(a.) Lack of Awareness: You MUST know where you are & what's going on
around you.







what the hell is that supposed to imply? Am I too concerned with my hairdo or what i will make for dinner to be aware?


the whole article had a lot of stupid bullshit in regards to women. ugh.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147470 - 02/23/06 10:48 PM Re: Awareness. [Re: uncleherpe]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Most people live in a state of trance. They drive cars in a trance. They walk across streets in a trance. They seldom if ever wake up unless they are in acute pain ... and then it is usually too late.

They are not aware of where they are and what they are doing.

I am not clear about what you did not agree with in regard to women in that article but lack of awareness kills more people every day than disease or wars.

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#147471 - 02/23/06 10:57 PM Re: Awareness. [Re: Nemo]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Most people live in a state of trance. They drive cars in a trance. They walk across streets in a trance. They seldom if ever wake up unless they are in acute pain ... and then it is usually too late.

They are not aware of where they are and what they are doing.

I am not clear about what you did not agree with in regard to women in that article but lack of awareness kills more people every day than disease or wars.





the article is supposed to be for women and children- when it said women are targeted for lack of awareness I assumed they meant it was a woman specific condition. I may be wrong... the article isnt very well written....eh. I guess I dont agree with my original statement as much as before. I cant really decide if that was the original intent of the authors statement.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147472 - 02/24/06 12:08 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
Men, not women or children, are more likely to be victims of random acts of violence.

And most rapes are done by people close to you. You are more likely to be hit by lightning twice than to be raped by a stranger.

A lot of the things on this list are a just a wee bit too much.

They should make a list of warning signs of people close to you.
_________________________
Hi.

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#147473 - 02/24/06 12:43 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Regardless of what the article said about women, or how well it was written, there are some good points to be taken irrespective of gender. People are not only unaware, but also naive to what can happen. ie "It won't happen to me".

Be aware and be prepared.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147474 - 02/24/06 12:47 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
To me, it's simple:

Women need a gun more than anyone. Women, as an average (NOTE: as an average!) are physically smaller than men and will nearly always lose a hand-to-hand confrontation assuming a man and woman of average builds. Fancy kung-fu probably won't cut it; as Magister Svengali has pointed out, it usually comes down to brute strength.

Women ought to have a weapon, whether it's a firearm or chemical spray.

Women are also more likely targets of rape and robbery, making their need all the more dire.

A gun levels the playing field immediately. A unarmed, strapping brute will probably lose to an armed yet diminutive woman.

Ladies: Don't leave home without it!
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#147475 - 02/24/06 02:53 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
That's a good point LeviathanXIII, especially regarding more common targeting of females. In different countries, however, a different approach is necessary. In Australia handguns cannot be carried, neither can a chemical spray. Knives are also in the same boat. Essentially, all a woman can have is her wits and preparation.

Awareness and preparation are tools that can be carried to any situation or country as necessary. (And yes, it may mean avoiding certain situations (or even countries haha))
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147476 - 02/24/06 06:42 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: uncleherpe]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

Quote:






(1.) The three reasons women are easy targets for random acts of
violence are:

(a.) Lack of Awareness: You MUST know where you are & what's going on
around you.







what the hell is that supposed to imply? Am I too concerned with my hairdo or what i will make for dinner to be aware?


the whole article had a lot of stupid bullshit in regards to women. ugh.


All women are not like you. By the way you took offence, I can tell you think of this type of advice as common knowledge, but alot of people dont.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147477 - 02/24/06 08:36 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

Essentially, all a woman can have is her wits and preparation.





This is why I think it is especially good for women and children to learn at least basic self defense, or take a few grades in a martial art like Taekwondo or Karate (even more so in a country like the UK where you are severely restricted by law to what you can carry weapon-wise).

Not only do you learn how to kick and punch effectively, you also learn grappling and release techniques, as well as sparring skills. Being able to practice these on people who are bigger and stronger than you is invaluable, as women and kids will usually be attacked by someone who is.
_________________________
www.vampiretemple.com

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#147478 - 02/24/06 09:25 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DarkApollyon]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Agreed. Also basic security awareness should be 'taught' in schools, and made more available. There tends to still be an ignorance about personal security, perhaps education could be part of the solution.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147479 - 02/24/06 09:36 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
In countries with a totalitarian take on weapons, I suggest women get a nice, big collection of keys. A wad of keys sticking from between your knuckles will make even a brushing blow very dangerous, especially if you hit an eye.

Obviously my advice is subject to legalities, but the point remains: women should never fight fair.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#147480 - 02/24/06 09:49 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
I like the idea of carrying that gun with me. I had a CWP when I lived in Texas. Then I get to KS, and surprisingly enough, it's a FEMALE governor who has consistently vetoed every CWP bill proposed to her. I've got to make do with good old fashioned pepper spray, I guess. Another trick a chick can use to stay safe is to call someone on her cell right before she gets out into a dark parking lot. I always call my mama. Criminals usually shy away from women who are talking on the phone because they realize the person on the other end might be able to hear them, and will probably know where the victim is. If you don't have keyless entry on your car, make sure you have your keys ready before you get to your car, and make sure you LOCK YOUR DOORS WHETHER YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR OR NOT. That's very important. My doors lock automatically when I put my truck or my car in gear, but I always lock them as soon as I get in anyway, just incase someone creeps up on me while I'm buckling my seat belt. I'm a paranoid person, and I think that's a good quality to have in this case since I've never been raped, and, obviously, I've never been murdered.

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#147481 - 02/24/06 11:11 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: tovasshi]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:


And most rapes are done by people close to you. You are more likely to be hit by lightning twice than to be raped by a stranger.

A lot of the things on this list are a just a wee bit too much.

They should make a list of warning signs of people close to you.





^^^that is so completely true. Hardly anyone is stranger raped, so carrying a gun probably wouldnt do much good. If old uncle tom knew you had a firearm to protect yourself from him Im sure there would be a lot of offense taken. Makes for some akward dates too....

I repark my car during lunch so that its super close to the entrance when I leave, and basically try to prevent anything bad happening. Ive had to go through some pretty bad parts of town alone, and just try to plan where I would go if something bad happened, try to stay aware of how close people are near by, etc. Im really not the ass kickin type.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147482 - 02/24/06 12:19 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: uncleherpe]
tovasshi Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1414
Loc: Banana, Canada
I carry a knife in my pocket and always keep my hand in that pocket. I do this because I ride the bus. We all know what kind of people ride the bus. I have met many of these people. Luckily I got away with just shoveing past them.
_________________________
Hi.

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#147483 - 02/24/06 01:04 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
This article seems to have a few inaccuracies, but it is mostly true. Unfortunately, it puts too much emphasis on altercations with strangers. As it has been noticed, most rapes and assaults are not perpetrated by strangers.

I was surprised that two important points of bodily weakness were left out. Those two points are the groin and the nose. The groin is rather obvious, but most people do not realize that the nose is a weak spot as well. It is a relatively fragile structure and is extremely painful when broken.

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#147484 - 02/24/06 01:15 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Maya]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Correct on all counts.

I'd like to see more articles on how to "read" and deal with dangerous acquaintances.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#147485 - 02/24/06 02:01 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DarkApollyon]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
It is, of course, a good idea to train in some form of martial art. It does teach you how to punch hard and fast and how to avoid being hit. However most martial arts that I have encountered are taught primarily for sport. The sparring experience is valuable but trying to deal with a genuine attack in the same way would lead to disaster.

I was attacked by two men about a year and a half ago. My taekwon do training helped, mainly in avoiding blows, but it was headbutting one of them in the face, running, and calling the police that enabled me to escape. Not a jumping reverse turning kick!
Martial arts help but you have to remember that with a lot of training there are rules. In a genuine situation there are none.

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#147486 - 02/24/06 02:55 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
I will mention again for the third time posted that assaults and rapes are most likely to occur by someone that you know.

Also what I think is often missed, is how to prepare yourself for when you can not get away. How will you let it affect you as a person? Will you remain a victim and scared for the rest of your life? Put yourself where no one can emotionally hurt you. Prepare for the worst. It was horrible, but not the end of the world for you. I just think that some thought should be put into not blaming yourself, self maintenance. Think about it before it happens, so it may make it a little easier to recover when it does.

The whole mentality that female’s shouldn’t walk in the dark because of potential harm. Yes it is defiantly good to avoid certain situations. However I am not going to let some person ruin living life to the fullest. Yes there are risks, good to understand the risks. Good to mentally prepare yourself for what could happen. However avoiding all situations would be impossible, and I am not up to playing victim.

I also wonder how many rapes of males are never reported.

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#147487 - 02/24/06 03:40 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
toad Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1182
Loc: texas
Quote:

women should never fight fair




I've always been taught that there is no such thing as a fair fight. Whatever it takes.

Toad
_________________________
Hail Shadow

I have the power to channel my imagination into ever-soaring levels of suspicion and paranoia.

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#147488 - 02/24/06 03:48 PM Re: Self Defence [Re: Nemo]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6350
When stopping behind another vehicle be certain you can see the bottoms of their back tires. This leaves you sufficient room to maneuver in the event of an attempted car jacking.

Also make sure you're in one of the outside lanes, so you can hop the curb if needed.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#147489 - 02/24/06 03:51 PM Re: Awareness. [Re: Nemo]
Achilles Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 223
Quote:

Most people live in a state of trance. They drive cars in a trance. They walk across streets in a trance.




I have actually always noticed this when watching people. Nice job pointing that out Magister.
_________________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

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#147490 - 02/24/06 07:36 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: VKat]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
You have raised some very important points!

Quote:

Also what I think is often missed, is how to prepare yourself for when you can not get away. How will you let it affect you as a person? Will you remain a victim and scared for the rest of your life?




An old friend of mine was caught out some years ago, she did all she could to get away (even crushing her ankle - requiring pins for a couple years after in the process). She was a very attractive girl previously, who afterwards deliberately allowed herself to become quite obese in the aim of preventing it from happening again. She is still the victim, and chooses to not deal with the issue, even still refusing counselling.

Quote:

However I am not going to let some person ruin living life to the fullest.




Another good point. One should not be scared in that they miss out on life in any manner. A sensible level of precaution is in order, the level of course is up to the individual.

Some time back through work I saw some statistics of successful rape convictions in the state I reside and was shocked by the incredibly low percentage (<30% from memory). There are numerous reasons for this, each which need addressing. Some causes ones being:

1. Rapes not being reported

2. Victims showering before presenting to police or a hospital
Understandable need, but education (which is severely lacking) could help here.

3. GPs incorrectly collecting and handling evidence. Again, education regarding procedure should be made more available.

Because rape can be a very taboo topic, it is generally only discussed after the fact. Some general education in rape prevention would go a long way.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147491 - 02/24/06 07:49 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Women are weaker than men physically, but mentally they have the advantage. Most men thing with the wrong head, and this can be capitalized on. Most men will underestimate a woman, which also can be capitialized on. A woman must be taught to take full advantage of these things, and they will be victorious. One weakness is all it takes to defeat an opponent if you are trained to recognize and capitalize. I have always felt that the more beautiful the woman, the more dangerous she is, providing she knows how to use it.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147492 - 02/24/06 08:00 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Very true. Most men will underestimate a woman. Women therefore can make use of this, and should. Again, this comes back to education being made available.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147493 - 02/24/06 09:49 PM Re: Awareness. [Re: Achilles]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
The same thing was pointed out to me by many teachers of self defense.

Your reaction time goes into the gutter if you are daydreaming when someone attacks you.

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#147494 - 02/24/06 09:51 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: VKat]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I also wonder how many rapes of males are never reported.




I have one word to answer this question: prison.

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#147495 - 02/24/06 09:53 PM Re: More info on reading dangerous situations. [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I would suggest joining the members' SIG on this topic.

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#147496 - 02/24/06 09:56 PM Re: Women and firearms [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
For an interesting historical item note that whenever women were enabled to first carry handguns was also when they first generally gained the right to vote.

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#147497 - 02/24/06 10:06 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I personally like Dr. LaVey’s advice on women protecting themselves. It is highly creative and effective. I have several pairs of stiletto heels made for just such occasions.

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#147498 - 02/24/06 10:08 PM Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: DarkApollyon]
Nemo Offline
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Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
This is an issue with me so please do not take this personally.

Learning the very few truly effective strikes and kicks to use in self defense is easy.

Those of you who are members are encouraged to look into the SIG devoted to this issue.

You do not need to spends hours at a gym or dojo learning how to strike with a closed fist or perform kicks.

You need only spend a few minutes going over a few very simple ideas and then reviewing these from time to time.

For example, why train to use a fist at all? Don't. Why?

Look at any wall.

How hard can you slam that wall with your closed fist without breaking your hand?

Now consider how hard you can hit it with your open palm.

There really is no comparison is there?

Perhaps I will follow through on my intention to create a short booklet on "startle-reflex self defense".

Most people will not take the time and effort to spend months and years learning a martial art.

And all together too many martial arts are stuck into teaching things that either don't work or do not teach the things that work better.

I taught self defense arts for years to many people.

The best and most effective techniques take only a few minutes to learn.

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.

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#147499 - 02/24/06 10:14 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

You have raised some very important points!

Quote:

Also what I think is often missed, is how to prepare yourself for when you can not get away. How will you let it affect you as a person? Will you remain a victim and scared for the rest of your life?




An old friend of mine was caught out some years ago, she did all she could to get away (even crushing her ankle - requiring pins for a couple years after in the process). She was a very attractive girl previously, who afterwards deliberately allowed herself to become quite obese in the aim of preventing it from happening again. She is still the victim, and chooses to not deal with the issue, even still refusing counselling.

Quote:

However I am not going to let some person ruin living life to the fullest.




Another good point. One should not be scared in that they miss out on life in any manner. A sensible level of precaution is in order, the level of course is up to the individual.

Some time back through work I saw some statistics of successful rape convictions in the state I reside and was shocked by the incredibly low percentage (<30% from memory). There are numerous reasons for this, each which need addressing. Some causes ones being:

1. Rapes not being reported

2. Victims showering before presenting to police or a hospital
Understandable need, but education (which is severely lacking) could help here.

3. GPs incorrectly collecting and handling evidence. Again, education regarding procedure should be made more available.

Because rape can be a very taboo topic, it is generally only discussed after the fact. Some general education in rape prevention would go a long way.




I reported my rape, a year or so after the guy moved away. I didnt really understand what happened was wrong until I got a little older (I was in midddle school and it went on for years..). I didnt press charges but I want it to be on file for when he does it again(im sure he will.... *sigh*). its so aggrivating. He violated a ton of girls in his day im sure, the ones I knew about I named in my police report, but the police didnt call any of them. I really disliked the way I was treated by the police- like I was a whiner. and they kept calling me back into the station to talk to the dectective even though I had told the same goddamned story like 3 times on the night I initially filed the report.


I dont think there is much desicion involved in how it affects you, especially at first. I am a strong believer that you cant really control how you feel- you can only repress it, which is unhealthy. How you deal with it is where the choice lies, but even that is tough. Many people in the mental health industry are not very good at what they do, even disrespectful and judgemental sometimes. I refused therapy after a few sessions, because it didnt really help. I made a fuckload of art the following few years after the assaults, and that helped a lot more than a talk doctor. They probably would have given me a bunch of prozac if I had stayed, but I am glad I delt with it my way. I went the opposite way of your friend- I dieted like crazy to be unnatractive rather than eating more. It made me feel safe for awhile, it was more of a phase than a long term choice. It helped, thats for sure. It all worked out ok, but it took a long time to vent all the feelings I had twards what happened.
_________________________
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#147500 - 02/24/06 10:28 PM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

Perhaps I will follow through on my intention to create a short booklet on "startle-reflex self defense".

Most people will not take the time and effort to spend months and years learning a martial art.

And all together too many martial arts are stuck into teaching things that either don't work or do not teach the things that work better.

I taught self defense arts for years to many people.

The best and most effective techniques take only a few minutes to learn.

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.




I would be one of those people interested in such a booklet. I did study Okinawan Isshinryu Karate many years ago, and I still remember some of the simple self defense principles taught. I remember the sensei teaching us to use whatever we had at hand in an emergency, such as keys and going for the eyes, or stamping as hard as possible on a person's instep if they are holding you from behind. (Again doing it with as much force as possible the first time is the key, you have the element of surprise on your side.)

Still, it was a long time ago, and a booklet that gives important quick things to practice or know about in any given situation would be worth its weight in gold.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#147501 - 02/25/06 01:39 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Maya]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
Right on the groin, but I don't know if I'd count on the nose. I've been hit in the nose hundreds of times for various reasons (boxing, concerts, running into things, etc) and it's not terribly painful. There is potential for high variance between individuals of pain tolerance, so merely inflicting pain is a gamble.

I do, however, strongly suggest hitting the throat. Not grasping, but punching or chopping, right on the front where your air passage is exposed. Doing this will send a shock through your body that cannot be avoided; also, people instinctually guard their face but probably don't expect throat attacks.

Whatever you hit, run like Hell into the nearest open store or public place after doing it!
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#147502 - 02/25/06 08:33 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: mattevans]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

Martial arts help but you have to remember that with a lot of training there are rules. In a genuine situation there are none.




I quite agree!

My Taekwondo instructor does teach the difference between them (eg. always going for the groin before using a release technique if you are grabbed in a real situation).

Unfortunately a lot of the techniques you would find most effective in a 'real' confrontation can only be practised on pads in classes due to the injury risk (- for example groin kicks, spiked punches to the eyes and stamping through someones knee)
_________________________
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#147503 - 02/25/06 08:40 AM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
DarkApollyon Offline
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Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
I do not take this personally Magister Nemo, and believe you are right - the main reason I practise Taekwondo is for all round fitness and because I enjoy it. It would be folly to train for several hours a week 'just in case I was ever attacked'!

Your idea of a straightforward and concise booklet sounds a remarkably good one to me!
_________________________
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#147504 - 02/25/06 09:05 AM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: Nemo]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

How hard can you slam that wall with your closed fist without breaking your hand?

Now consider how hard you can hit it with your open palm.




I'm not sure of that answer, but I'm sure that I can make a hole with my punch, not with my palm. Remember Kill Bill Vol. 2

Quote:

The other element is a willingness to apply them and an awareness of when it is legal to do what.




That is a good thing to consider, even more with the cost of medical care and advocate.

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#147505 - 02/25/06 11:10 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Just too long for my taste, fights are fast things.

Women and kids have only too remember one thing, never to be afraid in a public place. This is the attackers who are taking the risk, and they will certainly chose to the frigthly victims. This is just animal instinct, nothing more. Why people play with crocodiles while must get killed by them? Fear.

As for rape, I agree that most cases doesn't happen in the open, with random strangers. Girls go to a bar, talk with someone who she just doesn't know and is certainly too sweet to have nothing behind his mind. Than the girl thinks that all this sweetest is because he has fallen in love with her, the big story. Isn't a cliché? Or the girls who just stick with boys and always refuses herself to their advance, knowing quite their intentions. This is the stupidy of the uncareful.

The only exception where self-defense tricks can be useful is with the psychopath, the sociopath, the insane, the serial rapist. But they little in number, so much a social exception, that encountering one is quite improbable.

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#147506 - 02/25/06 11:51 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Quote:

Right on the groin, but I don't know if I'd count on the nose. I've been hit in the nose hundreds of times for various reasons (boxing, concerts, running into things, etc) and it's not terribly painful. There is potential for high variance between individuals of pain tolerance, so merely inflicting pain is a gamble.

I do, however, strongly suggest hitting the throat. Not grasping, but punching or chopping, right on the front where your air passage is exposed. Doing this will send a shock through your body that cannot be avoided; also, people instinctually guard their face but probably don't expect throat attacks.

Whatever you hit, run like Hell into the nearest open store or public place after doing it!




Indeed, pain tolerance is highly variable. A strike to the nose isn't so bad if it does minimal damage, but a break is a different story.

Thank you for adding the throat. I completely forgot about that! A swift strike to the throat can be quite effective in stunning someone.

In reference to Magister Nemo's reply, I quite agree with you about using an open palm as opposed to a closed fist. When I studied martial arts when I was younger, I always used a open palm for board-breaking. The reason is exactly as you described. One is much less likely to injure oneself using an open palm as opposed to a closed fist, not to mention the fact that it is easier to exert the force of one's whole body with an open palm strike. I don't know why. I also agree with you that the best self-defense techniques are the ones that only take a few minutes to learn. Learning how to defend oneself need not take a long time. Of course, long-term study of the martial arts has its own benefits.

In reference to Scarlet's reply, a stiletto heel can indeed be a useful weapon; even more so because most attackers would not expect it. My own version of this comes in the form of a steel-toed work boot. It's not sexy, but a good kick to a man's groin with one of those puppies can be very effective.

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#147507 - 02/25/06 12:02 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:


As for rape, I agree that most cases doesn't happen in the open, with random strangers. Girls go to a bar, talk with someone who she just doesn't know and is certainly too sweet to have nothing behind his mind. Than the girl thinks that all this sweetest is because he has fallen in love with her, the big story. Isn't a cliché? Or the girls who just stick with boys and always refuses herself to their advance, knowing quite their intentions. This is the stupidy of the uncareful.






woah, what? care to explain this?
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147508 - 02/25/06 12:31 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Most rapes don't happen because a girl went to a bar, that is a foolish statement! 4 out of every 5 rapes take place in a woman’s home or at a school, and only 1 will be by a stranger. And I don't know any women who met a guy in a bar and thought he was sweet and that he was in love with her all in one night!

Self-defense is far more useful then you have stated and with just about any type of an attacker, and if a woman is smart she will learn self defense and use it. You may get hurt, you may even die but chances are it would happen even if you didn't fight back! Do not buy into the stereotypical belief that a woman cannot fight a stronger, bigger man; or that you won’t get hurt if you don’t fight, it isn't true and never was!

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#147509 - 02/25/06 01:56 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

Most rapes don't happen because a girl went to a bar, that is a foolish statement! 4 out of every 5 rapes take place in a woman’s home or at a school, and only 1 will be by a stranger. And I don't know any women who met a guy in a bar and thought he was sweet and that he was in love with her all in one night!




I never said most rapes, I just enumerated two situations where girls are really playing with fire and can have easily avoid being rape just by being a little more careful. Rapes which happen at home (by a relative, if I understand), is quite another story and neither force nor care can be used in that case). This is a family problem.

Maybe your friends are more intelligent to not fall in love in a bar, but I'm sure it happens more often than not. That doesn't have to be the big love. Just an interest strong enough by the girl which makes her lower her defence in front of someone who she barely knows. But I'm still thinking to youg girl since I doubt more women are so naive.

In if rapes happen often at school where you live, than a school in your location is certainly harsher than any schools I have ever attended.

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#147510 - 02/25/06 02:30 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
In their home does not mean by a family member, and school is in the context of Colleges, or perhaps you haven't heard of these statistics! Learn your subject before making this type of statement because believe me, I know this subject better then most people!

Unless you have been a rape victim or a rapist it is unlikely that you would understand much of what is behind this type of crime, and even then you rarely understand it fully. You may wish to do a little research on the truth behind the preconceived ideas of what causes rape or the statistics of when and where rapes and violence against women occur, and the likeliness of it happening. According to the FBI, and yes I spend a great deal of time talking to these individuals, fewer then 300 reported rapes a year occur due to the female being in the wrong place alone such as a bar, or any place of this type. Most reported rapes in the US are date rapes or spousal rape and usually happen after a female has dated or been married to a man for several weeks, months, and in some cases, years. This type of crime happens to women of all ages regardless of intelligence, financial standing, religion, education, age or personal habits.

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#147511 - 02/25/06 03:12 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Well, if I understood in the context of Colleges, you mean outside the Colleges by people who were going to Colleges. College parties. Aren't somehow similar to bar? Isn't fully of people the would be victims doesn't know, aside from passing by them in Colleges? As for date rape, isn't similar to a girl who sticks with boys, are fully aware of their sexual desire, but keep refusing? They can be counted statiscally as two different situations, but haven't they have many things in common? Some woman who just is careless, following boys.

If you are so well versed in that subject, you should be aware of Super Free, the rape club in Japan. Yes it was involving young students. But I conceit that young students weren't blind by promises of love (how innocent am I to think young student search love!!!), but by promises of having the opportunity to meet young, strong and rich boys. They were rape outside, after being drunk with 90% proof vodka and following a bunch of boys outside, alone.

As for date rape, how many women finished by being fucked and left out. The difference is that have sexual intercourse thinking that the man is serious, while other wait, wait ... wait just too much. It would be interesting to know how many times these women raped after many weeks of date have refused sexual advance before actually being forced to act.

As for bar rapes in particular, maybe this is the type of rape which is the less reported. Well, 58% of rapes are unreported, according to this site : http://www.rainn.org/statistics/. That leaves many places for speculation.

But my point wasn't so more to make a portrait of rape but that care and the ability to know one's intention beyong the veil of promises is a stronger arm for women than self defence tricks in the case of rapes, except for marital rape. Though I agree it doesn't make the crime less important.

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#147512 - 02/25/06 03:32 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
You seem to think that rape has something to do with sex and girls who refuse to have sex with a man, this is rarely the case. It is true that a few men simply think they have the right to have sex with whom ever and where ever they choose, and women who think they should tease every man who comes along just for the hell of it, but rape, much like most crimes against women or just about anyone is about control and who has it.

Few people in today’s society refuse to have sex with someone they are dating, therefore your argument does not hold up.

Rape has little to do with being careless. Many times a woman is very careful and does everything she is told, by men mind you, to do and still can not avoid this type of situation. But here again, you are looking at it from the wrong perspective, that of the sex angle and not the crime angle. Even if a woman teases a man that is no excuse for rape or violence of any type, there are just far to many women who are willing to have sex with just about anyone for this type of an excuse to go very far. A man can always find a sex partner if he wants one, even if he has to pay for it.

I assume you are talking about Shinichiro Wada’s so called rave club? This is a little different as it was more then one man and the women, regardless of what they said were not innocent in the matter.

It is true that many rapes go unreported, most of these by young women who just feel to ashamed to come forward and due to the police’s past and currant treatment when it comes to such things, but by all statistics even those rapes that are not reported are crimes done by men for the most part that the women were familiar with or had a relationship with.

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#147513 - 02/25/06 05:59 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

You seem to think that rape has something to do with sex and girls who refuse to have sex with a man, this is rarely the case. It is true that a few men simply think they have the right to have sex with whom ever and where ever they choose, and women who think they should tease every man who comes along just for the hell of it, but rape, much like most crimes against women or just about anyone is about control and who has it.

Few people in today’s society refuse to have sex with someone they are dating, therefore your argument does not hold up.





I was aware that the goal of the rapist, as psychology said, was control, not really sexual pleasure. But you cannot deny that rape can only happen when someone refuse to have sex with someone else. Control? I define rape as someone who to satisfy is more basic sexual instinct without the consentment of his sexual partner, which becomes a instrument to fulfill is selfish pulsion. Ok, at that moment, their is a situation of control by the rapist over the raped. But I really doubt that control was the sole purpose of raping, just a consequence of it!

And I'm still not sure if you think that in most cases, rapes could be avoid by using learnt self-defence tricks?

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#147514 - 02/25/06 06:27 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
There are various forms of self-defense, most of them can be lethal unless you are an complete idiot! Many rapes could be prevented with the proper use of self-defense, at no time did I say or imply that all of them could be. But you are better off trying to save yourself in whatever manner available, even through tricks then not trying at all.

Many men convicted of rape have talked about the physiology behind their crimes and most have stated that sex was not their reasoning. The sexual act was one of anger and violence and usually a need to seek revenge due to something or someone who had caused them pain and suffering, and in picking their victim they stress that it made little difference to them what the woman looked like or what she was doing at the time. They commit the crime in a form that will cause as much mental as well as physical damage as possible. Control, pain and fear are the only goals of a rapist, much like an act of terrorism. The only difference is the weapon used, the sexual act is the weapon instead of a bomb, gun or a knife.

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#147515 - 02/25/06 07:47 PM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: luciferHammer]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I'm not sure of that answer, but I'm sure that I can make a hole with my punch, not with my palm. Remember Kill Bill Vol. 2




I did not watch that fantasy film but I have seen what a palm heel strike to the side of the jaw does, and what jaws do to fists as well.

In the first case the blow is devastating without usually creating any damage to the hand. Repeat blows become possible.

In the second case, the bones in the hand commonly break and make the hand almost useless for further use - which can be bad in the middle of an assault.

Even with taping and padded gloves, boxers commonly break their fists. Beware hubris in training choices!

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#147516 - 02/25/06 07:49 PM Thank you for understanding. [Re: DarkApollyon]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Tae Kwon Do is fun. I see people practice it all the time. Enjoy!

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#147517 - 02/25/06 07:59 PM Please remember... [Re: Maya]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Self defense should only be used if you are in legitimate fear for your life and you have no other alternative.

A strike to the throat is a potentially lethal move.

A poke to the eye is a potentially lethal move.

These acts should be considered with the same gravity as drawing and firing a gun into someone's brain.

That is why I say self defense should only be used if you are in legitimate fear for your life and have no other alternative.

Anytime you can run away, run away!

"Macho" = "stupid".

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#147518 - 02/25/06 08:22 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

Many men convicted of rape have talked about the physiology behind their crimes and most have stated that sex was not their reasoning. The sexual act was one of anger and violence and usually a need to seek revenge due to something or someone who had caused them pain and suffering, and in picking their victim they stress that it made little difference to them what the woman looked like or what she was doing at the time. They commit the crime in a form that will cause as much mental as well as physical damage as possible. Control, pain and fear are the only goals of a rapist, much like an act of terrorism. The only difference is the weapon used, the sexual act is the weapon instead of a bomb, gun or a knife.





Thanks for the information. But I'm usually more interested by the exceptions than the norm. If you ever read 120 Days of Sodom by the Marquis de Sade, you might understand my reasoning better.

Now that I know who you were refering to, you can be sure that those rapers who do it for control, pain and fear diguss me to the utmost.

Rapers who do it to stupid girls are still quite guilty, but the girls are somehow also, something you pinpoint when replying about Super Free.

In any case, I don't see how physical defence can make much difference in most cases, even more with long date rare or marital rape. Women who kill their raper still have a lot of problems. Sure, she can do a nice hurting trick to his assailant, but what if the raper comes back, assault more violently his victim, because of this violent act? And what the change that a raper overcome his female victim?

Well, maybe you have some statistics about the influence of self-defence lessons on unsucessful rape attempts.

I've checked a little on the internet for any useful information about this discussion and found this webpage :
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/ip/sigs/life/feminism/safety/rape.prev

On that page, they cleary state that fighting is dangerous. The best thing for women is to get away. Use their intelligent. And care and prevention is always better. If they have dated a would be raper for week, how can someone say she never has the opportunity to know what was going to happen. Even the best liar isn't perfectly transparent. And what can a woman can do with a gun? Will she shoot a would be raper, someone she likely knows, in self-defence? Don't you think it would look good in front of a judge? Well, I think this is the reality. But women can still think that they are superwoman and can overcome a rapers by violent act without problem. But it only works for case where the victim is assault by a stranger, the most unlikely rape case, as you reproach me to know nothing about

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#147519 - 02/25/06 08:37 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I will not discuss this with you publicly any longer; it is not what this forum is for. I think you misunderstand my point. It is not advocating violence, but self-defense when attacked. If a person, man or woman cannot get away then they should fight. It’s as simple as that. And the only statistics I need are the scars I see every day!

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#147520 - 02/25/06 11:58 PM Re: Please remember... [Re: Nemo]
Prince_Satanicus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
Exactly my thoughts as well Magister Nemo, To look at me you wouldn't think I'd run but believe me if the odds are against me I believe in living to hunt them down later and get my revenge or do a destruction ritual on thier asses, which would probably be the more intelligent thing to do.
I do think women should be very paranoid in any type of dark lonely places' there is insanity and chaos in the darkness away from normal folks.
I also like the throat, it's my favorite squeeze very hard squeeze, but as the Magister says be sure you are truly in fear of your life and can prove this in court.
Many people are in prison now because they were defending themselves but did the job a bit too well.
The best thing to do is simply see that you do not put yourself in such a situation in the first place.
_________________________
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity"

HAIL SATAN
HAIL ANTON LAVEY
HAIL ME

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#147521 - 02/26/06 12:34 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:


Rapers who do it to stupid girls are still quite guilty, but the girls are somehow also





No, they are NOT guilty of anything. Rape is one of the absolute worst things that can happen to someone, no one deserves that(except the rapists themselves)- especially not for being a tease. That is such petty shit. The vast majority of women who decide to do the things you mentioned do so without getting raped, I dont see why you think they should be afraid or see it as a rape waiting to happen when thats not realistic. most men are not rapists, and when they are they dont do it to a woman because she is stupid.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147522 - 02/26/06 03:30 AM OoOoh..... [Re: DeLamar_J]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
I feel like this subject is going to become a "good old'" boys Vs girls soon ... Wait, let's call the wiccans to make it more fun
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#147523 - 02/26/06 07:08 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

I will not discuss this with you publicly any longer; it is not what this forum is for.




I agree totally.

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#147524 - 02/26/06 09:24 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: uncleherpe]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

Quote:


Rapers who do it to stupid girls are still quite guilty, but the girls are somehow also





No, they are NOT guilty of anything. Rape is one of the absolute worst things that can happen to someone, no one deserves that(except the rapists themselves)- especially not for being a tease. That is such petty shit. The vast majority of women who decide to do the things you mentioned do so without getting raped, I dont see why you think they should be afraid or see it as a rape waiting to happen when thats not realistic. most men are not rapists, and when they are they dont do it to a woman because she is stupid.


Alot of women do go around acting like a tease, but that does not give a person the right to rape them. Even if your in the bed room and just get the tip in lol, and she decides to stop, guess what? Its time to stop.
I have said to some women, dont walk around that area, and dont dress like that. I always get the same reply which is, I can do what I want, dress how I want, and walk where I want because its a free country. That is true, and you should be able to. But in todays world you just cant, unless you are prepared to risk being hurt.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147525 - 02/26/06 11:33 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

I have said to some women, dont walk around that area, and dont dress like that. I always get the same reply which is, I can do what I want, dress how I want, and walk where I want because its a free country. That is true, and you should be able to. But in todays world you just cant, unless you are prepared to risk being hurt.




That is not true. There is no historic records of an era where girls/women can walk anywhere while wearing anything they want. Unless you have some unknown to me, and likely to the whole world.

Responsibles for the responsibles.


Edited by luciferHammer (02/26/06 11:35 AM)

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#147526 - 02/26/06 12:12 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: luciferHammer]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
What?
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147527 - 02/26/06 12:28 PM consent and attire [Re: luciferHammer]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Reply to this whole sub thread.

When it comes to area's like date rape there can be a blurred line when it comes to consent. There are times when women do not say, "no". They did not say "yes" either. Did they consent by saying nothing? Is it rape, or really a misunderstanding? I don't believe all men in this case are guilty of rape, but guilty of not making sure they have consent. Speaking from personal experience, some times you have to own up to what you don't say. Sometimes you can't blame the other person for what you let happen to you. I'm not down playing rape, just naming a circumstance that may not always be clear whether a man is guilty or not. Yes she may have felt forced, but he may not have been forcing her. Especially young girls are submissive by nature, to be safe men should ask.

From a conversation that I have had about woman's attire. I do agree that men can feel sexually harassed by what women wear. Think about it, according to my work manual sexual harassment is any unwanted behavior. Well maybe a man doesn't want to look at a women and feels harassed by what she wears. I think the whole harassment thing can defiantly be played too an extreme. Every new male that I meet at work I have to re go through the process of letting them know I'm not going to hang them up to dry for telling me I look nice today. Makes work uncomfortable for both of us.

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#147528 - 02/26/06 03:35 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: VKat]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
"I don't believe all men in this case are guilty of rape, but guilty of not making sure they have consent."

Thanks ValindaKay. That is one of the most satanic things a woman can say these days!

Someone told me there was once a device where women could put in their vagina's that would slice, prick men. I suppose they're too dangerous(?). But, after the seeing the stats and what other weapons are available, I suppose making them would be pointless.


Edited by Steve1 (02/27/06 05:42 PM)
_________________________

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#147529 - 02/26/06 03:47 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Stev2]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:


"I don't believe all men in this case are guilty of rape, but guilty of not making sure they have consent."




Quote:

Thanks ValindaKay. That is one of the most satanic things a woman can say these days!




No, it is not. That was actually an un-Satanic absurd! To not make sure they have consent means exactly the same thing as rape. How would it not? What kind of justification or scape-goat would apply?

"If they don´t say yes, and they don´t say no must mean yes..."

What are we talking about here, insensitive primates who can´t read body language nor understand voice tones?

Jesus.

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#147530 - 02/26/06 04:00 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Satanya]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I have to agree with you, Satanya. That has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard a woman spout off. If a man does not know if a woman has consented to having sex, perhaps he should put his hard-on back in his pants and ASK!

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#147531 - 02/26/06 04:04 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Satanya]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

No, it is not. That was actually an un-Satanic absurd! To not make sure they have consent means exactly the same thing as rape. How would it not? What kind of justification or scape-goat would apply?

Jesus.




Thanks for your participation. You save me from an angry reply. I will pass the psychological reasons why this is a woman who wrote that (mind you)!!!!

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#147532 - 02/26/06 06:42 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
Quote:

I have to agree with you, Satanya. That has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard a woman spout off. If a man does not know if a woman has consented to having sex, perhaps he should put his hard-on back in his pants and ASK!



I agree also.

I am reminded of the following:
"Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal."
A man should always be sure that a woman has consented to having sex before doing anything, even if it means asking; however, I think that if a man needs to ask, then the woman most likely does NOT want to have sex; if she wants to then she'll make it quite obvious to him.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#147533 - 02/26/06 07:19 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
Barb Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/09/05
Posts: 587
I have never been raped. I avoid telling guys I meet where I live. I think the easiest way to get raped is to have a guy come over to pick you up for a date, riding in his car, or him bringing you home afterwards; usually after developing a relationship. If I want to date someone, I like to plan on me and him meeting each other at where we want to go. If he questions me on that, I just say I like it that way, and if he doesn’t like that, then I will break up with him. No guy I meet is good enough for me to really LOVE, and I usually dump a guy within a week. If I do decide to make advances with someone by my own choice, then I can go over to his place, but I don't want him coming to mine.
~~~~~~~~~
I feel that to avoid getting attacked, do not make eye contact with someone you feel afraid of. It is very natural for people to sense fear in someone else through eye contact. If they know you are afraid of them, then they are more likely to attack you.

I think the way you walk is important also. You should not walk like a hunchback or look down; it makes you look like you are easily intimidated or unaware of what is going on around you. If I am walking down the street, I like to lift my shoulders a little bit and walk with my upper arms sticking out to the sides a little, and show an expression of seriousness, and like I’ve got somewhere to be and I don’t have time to talk to anyone. I’m a petite to average girl, so I think looking and feeling tough is important. And you can’t just LOOK tough; you need to project the message that you are not the kind who is to be messed with.

There were a few times when I was walking in the city by myself and some hideous looking homeless people, who just stand on the sidewalks feeling sorry for themselves all day instead of getting a job, asked me if I would give them some money. I just looked at them with an audacious look on my face while walking past them, without saying anything, and then they looked intimidated, like they were afraid of me and then they just left me alone. I plan on ordering the book, “Fang and Claw”, sometime to learn more about what to do if I ever do get attacked.
_________________________
"... it is much more gratifying to change your own world than the whole world." ~Magistra Ygraine

"Life is the great indulgence-death the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life-here and now!" ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"The true test of anyone's worth as a living creature is how much he can utilize what he has." ~Anton Szandor LaVey

"Twenty percent of your priorities will give you 80 percent of your production, IF you spend your time, energy, money, and personnel on the top 20 percent of your priorities." ~The Pareto Principle, as stated by John C. Maxwell

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#147534 - 02/26/06 07:41 PM Re: Effective self defense takes minutes not months. [Re: luciferHammer]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10121
I'm not sure of that answer, but I'm sure that I can make a hole with my punch, not with my palm. Remember Kill Bill Vol. 2

It was only a matter of time before someone said something entirely foolish.

a) You're talking about a fucking movie. Movies are not reality, they're pure fantasy. Not slightly fantasy, pure fantasy. That is all.

b) What are you so sure you can make a hole in with your fist? Is this relevant to personal defense? Are you saying this with any kind of reality or are you spouting macho bullshit? I generally am not in the habit of punching things to make holes.

c) Magister Nemo is 100% correct. Boxers break fingers all the time, and they have heavily padded gloves on and taped hands. In a street fight you won't even have this padding. You will risk damaging your hands.

d) Look at what those who commonly break things with their hands, that is martial artists breaking boards or bricks, commonly use: a open hand! I wonder why!

No worries though, I'm sure you'll have your katana and plenty of kungfu billy badass to ward off any attacker.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#147535 - 02/26/06 07:41 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: luciferHammer]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

I will pass the psychological reasons why this is a woman who wrote that (mind you)!!!!




Why, let´s hear it! This could be interesting...

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#147536 - 02/26/06 08:00 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Satanya]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Why are you so reactionary?
Quote:

No, it is not. That was actually an un-Satanic absurd! To not make sure they have consent means exactly the same thing as rape. How would it not? What kind of justification or scape-goat would apply?



What I wrote was meant to be more towards verbal consent. Do you ask a man every time you have sexual relations with him if you have permission?

Quote:

What are we talking about here, insensitive primates who can´t read body language nor understand voice tones?




So every body language with every women is the same? We are an open book that every man can read instinctually. I am sure that most men would tend to disagree. They are not mind readers you know. Some women, while they are enjoying themselves, will lay there like they are dead. It doesn't mean that they are not enjoying themselves. Furthermore some women like to act out claw, bite, hit. Is everything another women does that black and white to you?

I repeat; I'm not down playing rape, just naming a circumstance that may not always be clear whether a man is guilty or not. Yes she may have felt forced, but he may not have been forcing her.

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#147537 - 02/26/06 08:03 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: VKat]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
" Do you ask a man every time you have sexual relations with him if you have permission?"

I do, it seems like the right thing to do!

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#147538 - 02/26/06 08:03 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: VKat]
Satanya Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
Quote:

So every body language with every women is the same?




Yes.

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#147539 - 02/26/06 09:20 PM Legal Term [Re: VKat]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Where as you may have certain feelings about what rape is. Those feelings may not actually stand up in court.

Legal Term: rape

Quote:

1) n. the crime of sexual intercourse (with actual penetration of a woman's vagina with the man's penis) without consent and accomplished through force, threat of violence or intimidation (such as a threat to harm a woman's child, husband or boyfriend). What constitutes lack of consent usually includes saying "no" or being too drunk or drug-influenced for the woman to be able to either resist or consent, but a recent Pennsylvania case ruled that a woman must do more than say "no" on the bizarre theory that "no" does not always mean "don't," but a flirtatious come-on....



Quote:

2) v. to have sexual intercourse with a female without her consent through force, violence, threat or intimidation, or with a girl under age...



http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1718&bold=||||

Well I learned something new.

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#147540 - 02/26/06 09:23 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
VKat Offline


Registered: 03/23/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Northern California
Well I'm shocked, good for you. Honestly, I don't ask men as much as I do women guess that is sexist on my part.

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#147541 - 02/26/06 09:29 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: VKat]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I simply respect a man's right to say, No. It has never happened but... just in case, it is only polite to ask before you ravish a man, don't you think?

You can't expect men to do something you as a woman are not willing to do. It is just to hypocritical to think that only a man has to have permission and women do not. A twist on the old double standard I feel.

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#147542 - 02/26/06 11:09 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
Very rarely is a man going to say no if he is single. I couldnt imagine what it would be like to raped by a woman. I have to wonder if its possible. Can a woman make a man get hard against his will???
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147543 - 02/26/06 11:26 PM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: DeLamar_J]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Rapers who do it to stupid girls are still quite guilty, but the girls are somehow also





No, they are NOT guilty of anything. Rape is one of the absolute worst things that can happen to someone, no one deserves that(except the rapists themselves)- especially not for being a tease. That is such petty shit. The vast majority of women who decide to do the things you mentioned do so without getting raped, I dont see why you think they should be afraid or see it as a rape waiting to happen when thats not realistic. most men are not rapists, and when they are they dont do it to a woman because she is stupid.


Alot of women do go around acting like a tease, but that does not give a person the right to rape them. Even if your in the bed room and just get the tip in lol, and she decides to stop, guess what? Its time to stop.
I have said to some women, dont walk around that area, and dont dress like that. I always get the same reply which is, I can do what I want, dress how I want, and walk where I want because its a free country. That is true, and you should be able to. But in todays world you just cant, unless you are prepared to risk being hurt.





I think you are still thinking of this as a sex issue rather than power. Rapists will go for whoever they can overpower, which is most women, children or the elderly. I do not think its anyones fault that they are at the wrong place at the wrong time- the rapist would have raped whoever was there if person a had decided to stay in.


I refuse to walk around in fear all the time because I am a woman. I have to live my life and I refuse to blame people for getting raped in any way at all. Its just not right.
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147544 - 02/26/06 11:30 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: DeLamar_J]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Very rarely is a man going to say no if he is single. I couldnt imagine what it would be like to raped by a woman. I have to wonder if its possible. Can a woman make a man get hard against his will???




the body can react in ways that the mind doesnt want it to. Sometimes women orgasm during a rape even though they are certainly traumatized and didnt enjoy it.

as far as asking a man- well, sex doesnt happen without a few words being exchanged(in my life anyway!), and I am not shy when it comes to talking about it.


**and about the topic before, about not getting consent- well it made me think about a passed out woman. some women probably wouldnt mind if their boyfriends fucked them while they were passed out, but its not fair to assume they wouldnt mind especially considering the aftermath....
_________________________
One stupid post too many.

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#147545 - 02/26/06 11:48 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: uncleherpe]
DeLamar_J Offline


Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Ohio
That would be so wierd to have an anwanted orgasm.
_________________________
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. My personal web page---> http://www.myspace.com/39440105

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#147546 - 02/27/06 09:55 AM Re: consent and attire [Re: DeLamar_J]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

I couldnt imagine what it would be like to raped by a woman. I have to wonder if its possible. Can a woman make a man get hard against his will???




Yes. Just because a man gets physically excited from stimulation, does not mean he wants to necessarily act on it with that particular partner. It is less common, but a woman can force a man. You are thinking in terms of stereotypes. This woman could be someone you hate, someone you would abhor the very idea of having sex with. She could still physically stimulate your sex organ.

A woman can be a lot bigger and stronger, she can tie a man up and stimulate him sexually. This does not mean he wants to have sex with her. It could be a very humiliating experience, to be sure. Just think about it a little. Not only are you helpless to defend against something you don't want, you are humiliated that your body is actually reacting in a way you don't want it to. Even if she brings you to orgasm, if you did not want that to happen in the first place, it would not be very pleasurable.

Boy, has this thread gotten off track.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#147547 - 02/27/06 10:04 AM Re: consent and attire [Re: dragondancer]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Indeed it has! But... you know, sometimes these things happen!

You are correct by the way, men have a tendency to be stimulated physically even if they do not wish to be and I know several men who have been forced into sexual acts they did not want.

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#147548 - 02/27/06 11:18 AM Re: consent and attire [Re: DeLamar_J]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I was once told by a very wise men, “A fly landing on a man’s dick can get him hard, just image what a determined woman can do!”

Besides, there are instruments that if used correctly can stimulate a man, painfully perhaps but the ensuing reaction would be all the female would be concerned with.

However, this conversation has gotten way out of hand at this point. So I shall excuse myself from further discussion on the matter.

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#147549 - 02/27/06 05:37 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: Satanya]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
Thanks Satanya. I guess I read that wrong.
_________________________

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#147550 - 02/27/06 06:52 PM Re: consent and attire [Re: DeLamar_J]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
South Africa has some of the highest levels of rape in the world, to the point many women have been raped literally on multiple occasions. Adding to this issue is the high prevalence of HIV.

There have been cases of gangs of females, who have been raped and have HIV, attacking and raping men in 'revenge attacks'.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#147551 - 03/01/06 07:23 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
desdinova096 Offline


Registered: 02/17/06
Posts: 9
Loc: FORT MOHAVE ARIZONA
In response to the legalities of any given situation. ''Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six''!

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#147552 - 03/01/06 07:43 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children [Re: Maya]
desdinova096 Offline


Registered: 02/17/06
Posts: 9
Loc: FORT MOHAVE ARIZONA
Also, as far as the groin goes, especially from behind. don't be shy,just grab those testes and twist as hard as you can. I imagine if you put enough effort into it,they might just come off.A well deserved fate for any rapist or chomo.

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#147553 - 03/01/06 08:08 AM Re: Self Defence For Women And Children- Another important fact.. [Re: DeLamar_J]
MalorumBanorum Offline


Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 2
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
There have been a few studies that have shown a negative affect of self-defense classes for women- Over Confidence. Just remember, these classes dont make you a ninja or a super hero. Just because you feel like you can defend yourself better doesnt mean you should walk down a street that you otherwise wouldnt. These classes are a supplamental to common sense and proactiveness, to be used as a last resort.
_________________________
I am me now, finally.

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