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#147872 - 02/27/06 01:13 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: sCara]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>>Since when is there such a thing as a
>>non-practicing Satanist?!

I have never understood the concept of a "non-practicing" anything. Actually I can understand the term "non-practicing Jew" since being Jewish can describe ethnicity as well as religion. But with any other religion, the modifier just doesn't make any sense. Yet I've seen so many "non-practicing" Catholics for example, who disagree with what most of that church teaches and don't go to weekly masses. I think they just don't have the guts to stand up and say "I'm not a Catholic". It's usually a mix of Goodguy Badges and perhaps fear of family ostracizing.

Why else might people take up the label "non-practicing [whatever]"? Some of them claim to believe in the dogma, but just don't go to church. Sometimes it's because they simply don't hold their religion to be an important part of their life, or find services to be boring, don't like who leads the local services, don't know how to take things seriously for an hour, or are embarrassed to show their face after so long an absence. Granted there are some very good reasons why a Satanist might not ritualize at a given time, but these aren't among them!
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#147873 - 02/27/06 01:29 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Non-practicing Catholics can be ok. Because they can believe all the Catholic dogma etc... Never go to mass, use contraception etc... Then plan to make a deathbed confession, have their Last Rites, etc, and all will be made well. Catholicism perfects this, though I think other branches of Christianity (and Islam) have similar sorts of loopholes if one wished to look carefully for them.

Non-practicing Jews, as you say, can denote ethnicity.

Non-practicing Buddhists and Hindus? There are the "I'll be good in my next life" brigade.

But I get what you're getting at, anyway.

Definitely no non-practicing Satanists, though, as such would be an oxymoron.

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#147874 - 02/27/06 02:57 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Hear hear.

I wish more people would have the courage and fortitude to realize that they aren't Catholic/Methodist/Buddhist anymore, even if they were raised that way, and not continue to pretend.

Or at least, for the love of beets, they could decide to shift over from pretending, to lying. At least there, you're being honest with yourself.

Maybe it's just because I'm a religion nerd, but I think one's personal philosophy is far too important to be dabbled in superficially or self-deceitfully. Either shit or get off the proverbial pot, says I. Either practice Catholicism and believe in it truly, or tell it to get bent and go become a Rastafarian or something.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#147875 - 02/27/06 03:39 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: Linguascelesta]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>>Definitely no non-practicing Satanists, though,
>>as such would be an oxymoron.

It would be fun saying that in a begrudging way to a non-Satanist though, just to see how they'd handle it. "My religion? Well I'm a Satanist, but non-practicing."
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#147876 - 02/27/06 03:44 PM Going through the motions [Re: TrojZyr]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
I agree.

When I was at school (not a church school per se, but a large 500 year old private school, very traditional, etc), there was a regular prayer session in the morning assembly, whereby our headmaster or another lofty teacher in flapping black gown would announce gravely "Let us pray", and say a prayer, while everyone in the hall would remain silent, bow their heads, and say "Amen" when he had finished.

Now, some of them were Christians. Many were not. But all went through the motions dronefully. I never did, and when it came to bowing heads, I always remained proudly upright (it got Me into trouble a few times, but only very minor trouble, as they couldn't actually enforce anything so religious). Beyond raising religious objections, I often said "He said "let us pray", not "let us duck", anyway".

By the end of My seven years in that school, there was My good self and one other who had followed My lead, who did not duck when the magical words "let us pray" were spoken, and did not mindlessly drone "Amen" at the end.

<- Ghost of the past

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#147877 - 02/27/06 05:23 PM Re: "non-practicing" [Re: Bill_M]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Yet I've seen so many "non-practicing" Catholics for example, who disagree with what most of that church teaches and don't go to weekly masses. I think they just don't have the guts to stand up and say "I'm not a Catholic".




Because there's more to religion than beliefs and values.

There's also feelings and habits, which are inculcated in ritual, from childhood.

I've heard lapsed or non-practicing Catholics describe themselves as "ethnically Catholic", meaning that although they don't believe in Catholic dogma or Christian tenets, they still recognize that they're habituated to the Catholic way of doing things and seeing things.

For my part, I didn't really appreciate the extent to which I'm "ethnically Presbyterian", until I started talking about religion with Catholics. My indifference to organized group ritual; my sense of my own rightness, and disinclination to build consensus or compromise where issues of principle are concerned; my iconoclasm; my workaholism; my tinge of shame when I have to throw food away or otherwise waste money -- all of this is quite independent of my beliefs in Christianity, but is characteristically Presbyterian, and they even play a role in how I realize Satanism in practice.

It's these little differences that make culture interesting.
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#147878 - 02/28/06 05:21 AM Re: "non-practicing" [Re: reprobate]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

For my part, I didn't really appreciate the extent to which I'm "ethnically Presbyterian", until I started talking about religion with Catholics. My indifference to organized group ritual; my sense of my own rightness, and disinclination to build consensus or compromise where issues of principle are concerned; my iconoclasm; my workaholism; my tinge of shame when I have to throw food away or otherwise waste money -- all of this is quite independent of my beliefs in Christianity, but is characteristically Presbyterian, and they even play a role in how I realize Satanism in practice.:mummy




I find this interesting, as I was brought up within the Protestant Church of England, and reconize many of the traits you list!

When I got involved in Buddhism in my twenties I realised after a while what I was really doing was 'practicing Protestant Christianity with Eastern trappings'- I still displayed many of those same traits, but justified them through Buddhist not Xtian rationalisation - When I became aware of it it was a real eye opener for me.

Even since realising I am a Satanist those Protestant thoughts still raise their ugly heads at times, and although I see them for what they are, I would be a fool to think they do not excert some influence, even if only subconsciously.

This does not mean I believe them, they just seem so ingrained from my childhood. it will take a bit longer to root them out and silence them fully!
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#147879 - 02/28/06 06:58 AM Re: "non-practicing" [Re: DarkApollyon]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Funny how that is, isn't it? I wasn't even raised particularly religious: but the habits and values persisted.

Another interesting thing I've noticed: Catholics are much more guilt-motivated (ie., they're more inclined to do something because they feel guilty about something else they did yesterday), whereas Prezbos are more shame-motivated (ie., they won't do the thing the Catholic would feel guilty about in the first place). So Catholics will be a little more energetic and adventurous, whereas Prezbos are a bit more repressed; but Prezbos can much more easily let go of mistakes they've made in the past, whereas Catholics may be bothered by them for a long time afterwards.

The relationship to the respective theologies of these sects should be obvious, but they're not simply beliefs: they're ways of acting and thinking that stick around even in atheists.

Interestingly, I find Vaishnava Hindus are more like Catholics in this respect.
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#147880 - 02/28/06 10:36 AM Re: "non-practicing" [Re: reprobate]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>>Another interesting thing I've noticed: Catholics are
>>much more guilt-motivated

I've always noticed that a disproportionate number of Wiccans have been raised Catholic. At some point I concluded that the liking of organized group ritual, the polytheistic-like approach to saints, and consecrating objects never went away. Likewise I went through both of those phases myself, but some concepts never left me.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#147881 - 02/28/06 11:02 AM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Maybe de-factos are non-practicing?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#147882 - 02/28/06 11:06 AM Re: Going through the motions [Re: Linguascelesta]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
It's not just that. I mean, I usually bow my head and/or follow along when I'm at a religious service, or at an event that requests it of me, because I don't feel the need to make a social stand.

What makes it so irksome is how people pretend they believe something that they really don't, or only retreat back to something during times of crisis, or during the holidays, and don't notice. People don't pay close enough attention to what they believe to notice that the label doesn't match the actual contents of the box, so to say! I don't get how you can be oblivious to your actual own religious beliefs.

I'll definitely agree with Reprobate that one's upbringing does influence one's habits and such. I do notice that people who were raised Catholic tend to have a certain nature and temperament, versus those who were raised Buddhist, regardless of what those people practice now. One's upbringing does leave a mark, for good or for ill, upon oneself. But, that still doesn't mean one is a "non-practicing Catholic" if one really doesn't care for Catholicism anymore---it means one was raised Catholic, is all.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#147883 - 02/28/06 05:09 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: sCara]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Using the logical equation IF a is true AND b is true THEN aUb is true I am a practicing Satanist:

a: I practice playing the guitar.

b: I am a Satanist

aUb: I am a practicing Satanist.




Sorry, just had to be a wise-ass!
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#147884 - 02/28/06 06:02 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: reprobate]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

Ah, but this may be one time where the old saying is true:
Practice makes perfect!




I prefer to think that excercising my skillset keeps me sharp.
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#147885 - 03/01/06 01:53 PM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: sCara]
crackergirl Offline


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 323
Loc: Kansas
Yeah, I've always had a problem with that "practicing" thing too. It's like "practicing" safe sex. What is that? You put a condom on your vibrator? What the hell? And "practicing" attorney. If I need a lawyer, the dude better not be "practicing" law. He better actually do it. Kind of a stupid semantic problem. There should be a better way to clarify that sort of thing. Does practicing mean certified, or does it mean just dabbling?
I'm a Satanist. Simple as that. In order to clarify this to "the herd" (I rarely feel the need to do so as most of "them" don't need to know a damn thing about it, and if they did, they'd misinterpret it any way they could. Futile effort, really, but for my close friends...), I usually make the distinction between devil worshippers (poor misguided losers) and Satanists like me. I've never used the term "practicing Satanist" before, and probably won't due to the fact that I'm not really sure what the distinction between this term and just plain Satanist would be.

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#147886 - 03/02/06 08:01 AM Re: "Practicing" Satanism [Re: crackergirl]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

I've never used the term "practicing Satanist" before, and probably won't due to the fact that I'm not really sure what the distinction between this term and just plain Satanist would be.




To me, calling myself a 'practising Satanist', rather than just a Satanist adds more confusion than clarity.

Afterall, by my understanding what other type of Satanist can there really be?
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