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#148168 - 02/28/06 11:51 AM Unacceptable Parental Influences?
Tathariant Offline


Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Preston, UK
How much of a right do parents have to teach their children?
It's perfectly acceptable and considered a given that parents should pass on basic life lessons to their progeny, but should there be boundaries set on what they're allowed to teach?

For example, many adults pass on irrational fears, quirks, right hand religions, etc (Although anyone who believes a RHP religion solely because they're taught it by their parents clearly aren't worth the time of day). Racism owes it's continued existance to it's being handed down like an old tatty item of apparel, and without wanting to get into a rant about that at the moment, I think most of us can agree that we'd be better of without that trashy philosophy.

I realise that this is all academic, since we can't stop people from influencing the information sponges that live with, and rely largely upon them, but I was just curious what everyone elses thoughts were on this matter.

Thank you, and Hail Satan!


Edited by tathariant (02/28/06 11:53 AM)
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#148169 - 02/28/06 12:01 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
Carlos Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/17/06
Posts: 17
Loc: NW Florida
I believe that it should be a parent’s duty to raise well informed children by trying to teach their children to see all aspects of every issue, and letting them choose for themselves. This is what my wife and I are doing with our 2 boys and it seems to be working in the kids favor. I can honestly say that my 4 year old has a better grasp on philosophy & religion than most adults I know.
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#148170 - 02/28/06 12:47 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2052
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Quote:

but should there be boundaries set on what they're allowed to teach?





It is what it is. While it may be frustrating to see morons teaching their offspring their supposed pearls of wisdom, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Unfortunately, we can't control who is allowed to reproduce, and that, in my opinion, would solve everything.

Besides, these "boundaries" you speak of could easily turn around and bite you in the ass.

HS!
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#148171 - 02/28/06 01:00 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Bruja]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

Unfortunately, we can't control who is allowed to reproduce, and that, in my opinion, would solve everything.




Well, of course, they could always win themselves Darwin Awards

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#148172 - 02/28/06 01:21 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
Euphoria Offline


Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 342
Loc: 1/4 mile and 9 seconds away!
Parents can teach their kids no more than they know themselves. This is partly what keeps the herd, well, herdlike.
If a child is bright enough to see beyond their parents world view, they will, regardless of what is 'taught' to them.
An example:
I know a family, I've known them most of my life. Mum, Dad, oldest daughter, middle son and youngest son.
The Mum and Dad have achieved very little in their lives. He's been working the same menial job since he left school, she works part time cleaning other peoples houses.
They ate the same meal on the same day every day of the week. They went to the same pub on Friday night, drank the same drinks, spoke to the same people about the same things. Apart from a two week package holiday in the summer (to the same place,) their entire life could be lived in a single week!
The daughter, who I went to school with, and we were close friends as kids, after her 'teenage rebellion,' married and settled down into an almost identical life style. The middle son, tried to do the same, but married a girl slightly brighter than his self, and she wouldn't put up with it, and threw him out. He remarried a slightly dumber girl, and now lives pretty much the same exsistence as his parents.
The youngest son on the other hand, went to university, travelled the world, had adventures and is now a successfull sculptor living in the south of France with a beautiful wife and two beautiful kids. He's living a life so far removed, in a world so far removed from his parents, that they just can't understand why he's doing it, and can't understand why he isn't more like his siblings!
What ever we teach our kids, those with the brains and the drive to forge their own path, be it right or left handed, will.

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#148173 - 02/28/06 01:30 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Carlos]
Tejun2 Offline


Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Oregon Coast
I have noticed that some of the more dedicated youthful members of any religion are that way simply because of isolation. Some Christian families home school their children and strongly regulate their associates and input.
This tactic has been used for ages and I think if we conceive of some way to eliminate the ability of parents to raise their kids into ignorance we may make some progress, but that is the question isn't it... how do we do that?
My only solution, which doesn't involve some form of Facism, is flooding the market with open minded and alternative approaches to religion and society. Which seems to be the case here today in America.
I enjoy thinking about rebellious or curious Christian kids logging on to sites, like this one, that may free them from their parents hang ups.

Tejun

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#148174 - 02/28/06 01:41 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Bruja]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
I agree that making rules about who can and shouldn't reproduce would solve a lot of problems, however, I don't find the idea much different than the one at hand; Parent's teaching their children trash.*

There has to be yet another way to solve the problem, or perhaps, the third way is to simply not worry about what morons teach their offspring.


*There is nothing you could do globablly to solve the problem of a dad teaching his son racism, just like it is impossible to stop dumb ass's from breeding. The same thing comes to mind for both issues. "Everyone thinks they have the right, especially when someone else has it.

This doesn't apply to thinking, apparently. If it did, neither of those things would be an issue.
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#148175 - 02/28/06 02:20 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
I think saying you are racist or whatever else because thats how you are raised is a pretty pathetic excuse. People who subscribe to whatever their parents tell them would just listen to some other dumbass if it wasnt their parents, so I dont really think its a big deal if parents pass on stupid ideas to their children.


we are all effected by the way we were raised to some degree, the choice lies in choosing to continue believing what you were taught or make your own path. I know a lot of the people here at LTTD were raised catholic, southern baptist, or in other extreme belief systems and turned out quite a bit different than their families. Others can do it too, they just choose not to. Its easier to just be what others expect you to be.


edit- oh yeah, and I dont think racism exsists only because people learned it from their parents. thats bullshit. I know plenty of racist people who didnt learn it from their parents. they usually lived in a rather ethnic place and really got sick of people who are racial stereotypes.


Edited by uncleherpe (02/28/06 02:48 PM)
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#148176 - 02/28/06 02:33 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Parents have every right to teach their children what they deem fit, as long as it doesn't violate the child's legal rights or the law for that matter.
There is nothing to be concerned with. If the child is destined for excellence they will learn from their parent's mistakes and properly distinguished good examples. Why do you concern yourself with the way other's raise their children? If you are worried that
irresponsible parenting through illogical teachings could corrupt the development of a child with outstanding potential , remember the saying: "Born not made" and let loose a sigh of relief.

Quote:

Racism owes it's continued existence to it's being handed down like an old tatty item of apparel, and without wanting to get into a rant about that at the moment, I think most of us can agree that we'd be better of without that trashy philosophy.




I disagree. Rivalry and separatism among "species" is a natural necessity for optimal individual development through the act of being competitive. We(human beings) would be worse off without this "philosophy". (As we presently are) There would not be "racism" if Civilizations "B","C","D","E","F", and "G" were never relocated and mixed with Civilization "A" (nor any other combination of the sort). Many idiotically believe that multiculturalism, “tolerance”, or at worse racial unification being the answer to solve "racism".
Christianity is the front of such bullshit, in its agenda disguised as "morality" to prolong the survival of the weak. They blindly and ignorantly overlook(as intended and expected) animal adaptation to environment and climate which will constantly create racial distinction based on geographical location. "Racism" owes its continued existence to being handed down by nature and evolution. Territorialism and engagement will remain forever constant by natural law. The only way to prolong the beginning to any conflict is isolation and the strengthening of the isolating borders.

Quote:

and without wanting to get into a rant about that at the moment


Then it is here for the moment that you were waiting for.

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#148177 - 02/28/06 06:38 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
This is an issue that serves no purpose.

Nature is what it is.

Some will rise above their backgrounds.

Others will not.

It's all about stratification and survival of the fittest.

Social Darwinism will make the final determination.
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- Sam Harris





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#148178 - 02/28/06 07:33 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Tathariant]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Ideally, a parent should raise a child to become a rational, independent, well-adjusted, happy, responsible, goal-oriented adult. A child is not here to solely fulfill all of the parents' particular expectations, nor to live out vicariously the parents' dreams, nor become a clone of the parents.

A child should not be treated nor indoctrinated in ways that will serve to noticeably stunt his or her ability to reason, explore, feel, be independent, self-actualize, make and break relationships, function in society, adapt to the world, and/or be genuinely productive.

Children can and should be taught things--principles, rules, ideals-- but these things should allow them to become more adept and skilled at dealing with life, not less so.

Sadly, the reality doesn't always match the ideal, but there you go.
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#148179 - 03/01/06 12:08 AM My Future Children [Re: Tathariant]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
First off, I'd like to vent--if not rant. Most of the so called "parenting" I have seen in my life is fucking horrifying, and I share your contempt for the usual indoctrination tactics mindlessly practiced on children. Certainly, parents of the RHP'S will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.


I have a standing policy When it comes to other people's children. Barring a child asking for help, being credibly informed of--or directly witnessing physical abuse, I simply ignore them. It's not worth getting involved and trying to help. There's nothing new going on. Kids have kids, then expect their kids to finish raising them. Kids grow up crying and perplexed. The world keeps on spinnin'. Control and responsibility go hand in hand. Assuming responsibility when one has no control is an act of a masochist. I don't care about being the goodguy here. I'll settle for being good enough not to lie about it. Not only do I not care about playing "savior," there are any number of things that can backfire, and leave one looking or feeling like an ass. My own personal demand for being kind to children is satisfied by not deceiving them about my being a savior, or about the nature of belief (something nearly universal these days). That may be the greatest kindness the child ever receives, and this I can do without a word.

I've never had children, but I have been one. My experience has been that most parent's see this responsibility as a matter of transferring ideas. As a Satanist, if I have a child, my priority will be to teach him/her reason, method, and audit, and let his/her deductive faculties do the adding up.

As Thoreau wisely put it, "If I have any experience I think valuable, I am sure to reflect that this my mentors said nothing about."

My priority is to furnish my future child with the benefits of a clear head, the finest tools, and an indomimable spirit--rendered by plenty of laughter, insatiable curiosity and joy of discovery. This requires resources, availability, and the maturity and examples that only experience can provide. To this end, I have waited until I'm old enough, and have arranged a future without the distraction of the 9-5, the resources to finance his/her tools, and am living a full and rich life of my own (added protection against vicariousness). Without conceit, I can say that when I become a father, I will have the resources, the availability, and the situation to raise a child well. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, they can content themselves with the fact that there are still a few in the world who prefer to approach a challenge intent on setting new standards, rather than putting a good face on a bad accident. For those, like me, who survive and succeed by paying strict attention--rather than being done right by by their own parents, the example is enough. In the name of Satan, and my future children's happiness, may my vanity be justified.
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#148180 - 03/01/06 12:20 AM Re: My Future Children [Re: Quiddity]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
you ignore it when you directly witness abuse?? huh? I Are you using the term abuse loosely or literally?
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#148181 - 03/01/06 12:21 AM Re: My Future Children [Re: Quiddity]
Tathariant Offline


Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 78
Loc: Preston, UK
Quote:

First off, I'd like to vent--if not rant. Most of the so called "parenting" I have seen in my life is fucking horrifying, and I share your contempt for the usual indoctrination tactics mindlessly practiced on children. Certainly, parents of the RHP'S will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.




I'm glad *someone* agrees
I just wanted to clarify my position. Of course parents should teach their children about all philosophies and religions objectively. That's what I meant, and I apologise if I didn't make this clear. I just mean that they shouldn't force their own beliefs on their children. If the child openly disagress it makes life somewhat unpleasant. (As I'm sure many here will agree based on their own experiences)

I still can't abide Racism. It clearly isn't a naturally ocurring state of mind. It's something that originated with different ethnicities being cut off from each other over the course of human evolution. Children unsullied by such teachings from their parents or others tend not to be racist.

Like people have said, a competitive spirit is important, but why focus on race vs race, as opposed to every man/woman/child for themselves? That opens up the playing field a hell of a lot more, and provides more of a challenge.

But that's not the topic, hence my not wanting to get into it here, but I couldn't let some comments slide.
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#148182 - 03/01/06 12:38 PM Pay attention. [Re: uncleherpe]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Pay attention. Re-read what I said. BARRING is the operative word here.


Edited by Quiddian (03/01/06 12:39 PM)
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