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#148198 - 03/03/06 07:38 AM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Noxilenticus]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
I think you missed the point.


Quote:

I am a God. I have desires I need to fulfill. Fuck anything and everything that gets in that way.




That is fine, provided you're rational about it.


Quote:

Why bother with sheep?




As Priestess Ygraine pointed out, they serve a purpose.

As you get older, you'll see that.


Quote:

There's no point in continuing the life cycle unless you need some slaves to serve you.




Ridiculous.


Quote:

The people in power can do whatever the fuck they want to their kids as long as no one is big enough to overthrow them.




Definately missed the point.


Edited by AmbientLogic (03/03/06 08:01 AM)
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#148199 - 03/03/06 07:51 AM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Poetaster]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
He is quite adept at missing the point.
_________________________
Empty heads babble the most.

The good die young... because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good.
John Barrymore

HARDCOVER INFERNALIA

PAPERBACK INFERNALIA

HARDCOVER KASIDAH

PAPERBACK KASIDAH

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#148200 - 03/03/06 09:13 AM Re: Topic. [Re: Ygraine]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
I do not disagree with you about parents having the right to raise their children in the fashion they feel is best, and having raised four kids the way I wanted, I would never want to take away someone else’s rights to do the same. However, society dictates for the most part, not only in this country but in most countries how parents raise their children today.

Safety and security for saying what is on one’s mind or the lack there of has never stopped anyone from doing it, not in our society or in others. (If it did then Dr. LaVey would never have written the Satanic Bible or started the church.) Most people might not say it quite as often or as publicly. The Soviet Union was famous for dictating the people’s beliefs and life styles, most were terrified to say anything against the government, even when that government was taking their children away from them for the betterment of the country, but that didn’t stop some from speaking out even though it meant torture, and even death in some cases. No one said it was safe to state ones beliefs or opinions.

Parents, and I speak of those in the US because this is where I live and know best, have been told how and when they can discipline their children and to some extent what schools they can send them to, what is acceptable behavior and whether or not their children have the right to practice any belief that falls outside of the “norm”. After all, if a kid doesn’t join in with school activities or the right group of friends he is labeled a trouble-maker, or worse now days. If he is eccentric, and I have seen a great many kids who are, then he is considered mental and is often sent to special classes or special schools. If a parent disagrees with any of these accepted conditions then they are harassed by the government, (local usually but there have been cases that have made national news and ended up in a federal courtroom,) and religious special interest groups who have nothing better to do with their time then stick their noses where they do not belong and think they have the right to decide how everyone should raise their children, or live their life. The parents are labeled as unfit or of low intelligence and there have been cases where the children were taken away from their parents due only to the beliefs that the parents held about raising their children.

This type of interference is accepted practice today, fifty years ago it was not, and government had little say in how children were raised, parents wouldn’t have stood for it. This change came about because parents were told time and time again that it would be better if the government helped them raised their kids, and many parents just stopped taking responsibility for their children all together. The children and the parents have become so brow beaten by the accepted practices of society that even those who may have a satanic bent are often afraid to admit or accept it. Kids are told that they have to be the same as everyone else from birth now days, many have no idea that they have a choice in the matter until they are grown up and finally get the opportunity to experience life without to much interference. Unfortunately by that time they have been so ingrained with societies ideas and acceptances that they find it hard to ever truly live life to the fullest or to live up to their potential. Natural or not, most people can only take so much before they cave in to the pressures of society. Thankfully, there are those few who do not give in.

Making the road rough that one travels may be a good thing but only to an extent that it does not interfere with the arrival at ones destination.

But, I have probably gone well off the topic and strayed into another area all together at this point.

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#148201 - 03/03/06 09:53 AM Re: Topic. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Scarlet--

Just so you know, I wasn't "trashing" you. I just used your post to launch my diatribe.

Regardless I think we need to understand the concept of might being right. Many think that means the biggest on the block is or should be on top.

It doesn't. It means that what IS must be what is right and mighty because it has succeeded.

In other words all the discrimination and small-mindedness, the herdlike behavior, societies influence, have created US, those who question and advance the species by doing so.

We would not be who we are if we weren't forced to deal with what is.

A bigger problem, I think, than bad parenting is the creation of a system to "protect" the bad parents and their kids, preventing nature from doing its thing---preventing the next generation of bad from happening.

I guess in the final analysis I am saying (not to you, silly Scarlet!) that we should mind our own fucking business regarding other people's parenting UNLESS it effects ourselves, our church, or is straightfoward abuse.

And, while this is a matter of choice, I have kind of made it my crusade to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The various systems are non-natural and easily manipulated, but one pissed off Satanic witch can do wonders

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#148202 - 03/03/06 09:55 AM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: MagisterRose]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Quote:

He is quite adept at missing the point.







Oh Good! I was so afraid he was adept at nothing.

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#148203 - 03/03/06 10:07 AM Re: Topic. [Re: Ygraine]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
You got that right. A pissed off Satanic witch can do wonders!

I have had experience with people trying to dictate how I raised my kids, I was even forbidden to step foot in my daughters high school by the school board, apparently the parents of her class mates thought that I would corrupt their children simply because I was a Satanist and my daughter loved and respected me! Shocking isn’t it, that children of a Satanist parent might actually love and respect their parent?

Might is rarely the answer. The biggest boy on the block will usually be taken down by a skinny bookworm he never saw coming!

In any case, I have a habit of going off on this type of thing due to my inability to accept bullshit from society.

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#148204 - 03/03/06 10:53 AM Re: Topic. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Noxilenticus posted:

There's no point in continuing the life cycle unless you need some slaves to serve you.

Or, unless continuing the life cycle is otherwise pleasurable to you in other ways that don't relate to power or control. Seeing something or someone grow and evolve with your help and encouragement can be quite gratifying---that's why I keep a couple house plants around. Having a relationship with someone can be similarly enjoyable, as can passing down your ideas, stories, and values to someone who will likewise pass them on.

Babboons spend much of their lives fixated on power and control, and who's above and who's below. They also get ulcers like crazy.

Power and control are important parts of life, and are important parts to being a Satanist, but they do not constitute the whole. Otherwise, Satanism would not have many of the injunctions, principles, and ideas that it does; it would just have "power and control," and be garden-variety psychopathy.

"Might makes right" is not its own isolated moral injunction. Meaning, those who are mighty do not suddenly become morally or ethically right according to some invisible cosmic standard (that's what we're trying to get away from in the first place), and we don't necessarily have to approve of, praise, like, or even feign apathy or pride in what they do.

The people who win are sometimes total jerks, and one is still allowed to note that.

Might makes right just means that we should not be too surprised or galled when the scales get tipped a certain way, or when certain individuals come out on top---in contrast, the masses are quick to gape, "But, but, he's evil! Evil can't win?" More importantly, it means that we should not expect that our own ethical strength or belief in our "goodness" or "rightness" will necessarily allow us to win in a power struggle.

Might makes right means that the outcome is the outcome because that's what happened, and that outcome is right because it exists. But, "what's happened" is actually "what's happening," because it is a continuing, ever-evolving process, and the big players may often fall to the bottom, while the underdogs rise to the top. Through our effort, we can affect what happens next in the chain of events, so that we may survive and thrive.

The people in power can do whatever the fuck they want to their kids as long as no one is big enough to overthrow them.

Most Satanists are still dismayed by that kind of situation--without courting moral pipe dreams or getting solipsistic about what "ought" to be and therefore assuming that it "is" or "will be"---even when there isn't much that can be done. And, some Satanists even do things about it, if they truly care about certain situations involving children, animals, or someone or something else that's caught their eye and won their favor.

Not to mention, it's not so much about people in power doing whatever they want with their kids, it's about parents in general having direct and primary jurisdiction over their kids, as opposed to strangers and the neighbors, because that's the way being a parent works, and should work.

Likewise, it's about the fact that there's so much grey area that you can't reasonably and cleanly prosecute or crush certain distasteful behaviors, because they are still technically legal and/or "moral," and because going after those behaviors could set a bad precedent that could uproot legitimate parental rights.

No one else cares about your core desires except yourself.

My family members and close friends tend to care a lot about my core desires and goals. That's why I like and love them .

If no one around you cares a fig about your desires, then perhaps you need to surround yourself with better people.

*Sorry for responding to your post accidentally, Scarlet!
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#148205 - 03/03/06 11:12 AM Re: Topic. [Re: TrojZyr]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Umm... okay but I didn't say any of those quotes!

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#148206 - 03/03/06 11:14 AM Re: Topic. [Re: Witch_Scarlet]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Whoops! Sorry, I meant to respond to Nox, but I may have clicked the wrong post to reply to.

But, I think you guys are easy to tell apart.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#148207 - 03/03/06 11:16 AM Re: Topic. [Re: TrojZyr]
Witch_Scarlet Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Texas
Very! He is obnoxious and somewhat foolish. I am neither!

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#148208 - 03/03/06 04:02 PM Re: Topic. [Re: TrojZyr]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>If no one around you cares a fig about your desires, then perhaps you need to surround yourself with better people.

Or lighten up. I would dread to think of what kind of people would be wanting to hanging around a person so hostile and resentful of their goals and desires.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#148209 - 03/03/06 09:31 PM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: TrojZyr]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
HAHAHA! You're talking about Elisha, aren't you? "Get thee up, thou bald head..."

I'll totally call you if you want to send me your number (better make it by outside email, though). This could possibly be a great joint project. I just had the greatest idea. Would it be appropriate to start a thread listing all the most hilarious shit in the xian bible? I'm going to give it a shot. Check the PRINTED MATTER forum for the thread. This can give us a centralized listing of great source material. Then later we can hit this together and maybe get published.

This is going to be so much fun!
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#148210 - 03/03/06 10:42 PM Re: Topic. [Re: Ygraine]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

It doesn't. It means that what IS must be what is right and mighty because it has succeeded.











In other words all the discrimination and small-mindedness, the herdlike behavior, societies influence, have created US, those who question and advance the species by doing so.














We would not be who we are if we weren't forced to deal with what is





Precisely.

And,

Time decides all in such matters.
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#148211 - 03/04/06 02:33 AM Re: Unacceptable Parental Influences? [Re: Ygraine]
Noxilenticus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Hell
Quote:

Wow---a bit pissed off, aren't ya?




The wrath of a dead wizard knows no bounds.

Quote:

Just a reminder: You are not A God you are your Own God. The difference is important.




Acknowledged.

Quote:

or give me my bikini wax.




hrmm… that might be more of a sadistic pleasure to a god than a service

Quote:

He is quite adept at missing the point.

Quote:

Oh Good! I was so afraid he was adept at nothing.






Hehehe, thank you ladies for taking the time to point out my flaws. I am glad to know I have such loving and caring critics.
_________________________
"Satanists are epicurean, skeptical atheists who see Satan as a symbol of pride, individualism, and the quality of questioning all dogmas. The word in Hebrew means 'adversary' and so we are each 'Satans' to the doctrines that would have people use faith instead of reason to understand the universe in which we live. Our goal is to enjoy this, the only life we have and not waste it in anticipation of a mythical afterlife or an imagined apocalypse." - News 31 May, XLI A.S. in Reguards to The Satanic High Mass that happened on 6/6/6

- Noxilenticus Zodameranu

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#148212 - 03/04/06 02:33 AM Re: Topic. [Re: TrojZyr]
Noxilenticus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Hell
Quote:

Noxilenticus posted: There's no point in continuing the life cycle unless you need some slaves to serve you.
Quote:

Or, unless continuing the life cycle is otherwise pleasurable to you in other ways that don't relate to power or control. Seeing something or someone grow and evolve with your help and encouragement can be quite gratifying---that's why I keep a couple house plants around. Having a relationship with someone can be similarly enjoyable, as can passing down your ideas, stories, and values to someone who will likewise pass them on.







Aren’t they serving your emotional needs by having them? Why classify it any different than the degrading thing it is? Slavery means to have control over something other than your self. When you water your plants, the plants are your slaves. They have no control over the amount of water you are going to give them. You may add more or less water depending on the way they turn out, but it is always your decision in the first place. That puts you in control of them. Similarly if someone wants to watch TV, the TV is their slave. The TV has no say in what channel it is going to be tuned into. You are its master. This master/slave relationship has been happening since the universe began. It is a hard concept for merciful people to grasp, especially when they put the lives of biologically classified life-forms in front of technology or other seemingly inanimate objects. Perhaps this is why they are often in the slave position themselves.
_________________________
"Satanists are epicurean, skeptical atheists who see Satan as a symbol of pride, individualism, and the quality of questioning all dogmas. The word in Hebrew means 'adversary' and so we are each 'Satans' to the doctrines that would have people use faith instead of reason to understand the universe in which we live. Our goal is to enjoy this, the only life we have and not waste it in anticipation of a mythical afterlife or an imagined apocalypse." - News 31 May, XLI A.S. in Reguards to The Satanic High Mass that happened on 6/6/6

- Noxilenticus Zodameranu

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