This topic came up in a recent discussion between TrojZyr and myself, and we figured we'd throw it open to the board and let it get kicked around.

Along the axis of introversion and extroversion, do Satanists tend to fall disproportionately on one side or the other? Or, to put it another way: is introversion more compatible with a Satanic personality than extroversion?

TrojZyr and I are both introverts, and we suspect that quite a few others here on the board are as well. But she and I are still at odds over the question of whether that's representative of Satanists as a whole, or an artifact of a selection bias (i.e. an Internet forum will tend to attract more thoughtful nerds than party animals.)

I can see both sides of the argument. As TrojZyr put it, "it's hard to be an extroverted misanthrope." But on the other hand, Dr. LaVey did speak of self-aware individuals occurring at all spots on the clock. So the question is if the disribution is more-or-less even, or if statistically we tend to skew to one side.

We actually arrived at this topic via a discussion of the Myers-Briggs, which makes a sharper introvert-extrovert distinction than does the LaVey Personality Synthesizer. (Mapping the MBTI onto the LPS is an interesting challenge all by itself, but it's somewhat beside the point here.)

Your thoughts? Introverts and Extroverts alike, speak up!

-Chess

If introversion is the idea of one who is preoccupied with ones own thoughts, needs and feelings, that I believe many of us are that way by default. But, like most things, it's much deeper than that.

If one feeling or concern you have is the happiness of someone else, and you strive to make that other person satisfied simply for your happiness, what would you call that?

I just located a quick-n-dirty article that nicely illustrates the basics:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch

Keep in mind, folks, that introversion is not shyness. Introverts can be quite outgoing, sociable, and socially adept---I'm quite outgoing, for example---but, after a while, socializing and/or partying drains their energy, so they need to retreat into a quieter or more solitary activity. Engaging conversation about interesting topics will give an introvert a temporary boost of energy, however, so not all forms of socializing are created equal.

I'd tend to think that practically all Satanists would fundamentally be introverts, although some will inevitably be more or less introverted than others. Introverts care about big ideas, they don't get lonely easily, they don't cling to other people, they choose their company carefully, they're introspective, they're more self-aware, they often take longer to consider ideas more deeply, they enjoy and pursue hobbies that are either solitary or just require one or two other people, they don't like too much flash or excitement, etc. That sounds like many of the Satanists I know, at least.

But, of course I'll tend to heap more praise on introverts, since I am one.

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"it's hard to be an extroverted misanthrope."

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No, in my opinion. I explain :

I see the term "extroverted" when you have no problem to open yourself to people (of course) but letting the door too much openned.

My point is this one : you can deal with everyone. To speak with people considered as sheeps could be useful. At this moment they'll think you are extroverted, while you have something else in mind which won't be felt by others. This is an introverted way to be.

Now, let's don't speak about some so called extroverted people on the web, who couldn't handle a conversation with you in life, by looking into your eyes, and with the same intensity. Very easy to see this.

Most of the Satanist I associate with are both. There are a few exceptions at both ends of the spectrum of course. They are at times highly introverted and preoccupied with their own projects and do not seek help or advice unless they absolutely need it. Many are highly successful and talented. Most prefer their own company, their own homes and keep a close nit group of friends and associates. Yet in a social gathering they are extremely extroverted and love to be in the middle of everything and bask in the attention they receive, most have a wonderful sense of humor and love to express it. They give their opinions freely when asked and sometimes when not asked, and can be the life of any party regardless of who is in attendance. They do not hesitate to go out and enjoy themselves with friends and family. They do not mind meeting strangers or those who do not share their interest as they use these times to study and learn new things. Yes, at times people and things get on their nerves but for the most part they simply ignore these irritations.

I am highly introverted by default, although I can be highly extroverted in certain situations when needed. By default I empower myself and my ego through personal activities and endeavors. I have a tendency of despising extroverts because the general consensus of them are pathetic beings who get sympathy and praise among others while having nothing about their character to warrant it. I generally classify individuals of this category as having "empty egos". They thrive almost completely on other's disposition and sympathy because they lack ability to please themselves. They exist primarily on “social life”, how well they fit in with the herd. Extroverts, if they happen to dig deeper into the character of the introvert, become very envious and cautious for their ego and reputation's sake. In effect they will tend to destroy the introvert socially.
The only times I take on the extroverted personality type is when dealing with extroverts and testing techniques of lesser magic. It is important to learn the effects of certain tactics from impression one has left on others.

I tend to agree that introverted personality types are mostly compatible with Satanism in terms of the independent individualism that Satanism represents. However the playing field in which some are competing on requires the approval of the democratic multitude so it is essential to seek the approval of others and draw upon their power. I would conclude that exhibiting both personality types will draw upon the most success, thus having both would be most compatible with Satanism.

Once an introvert learns the social dogmas, they come to emerge as the best leaders leading by example, not by appointed authority or birthright.

-Maximilian

I think pigeonholing a Satanist is an exercise in futility.

Does Satanism attract certain personality types? Sure.

But I don't think a broad generalization is appropriate or effective.

The introvert/extrovert argument is null and void; both are compatible with Satanism.

Just an opinion of course.

As a side note: I scored an INTJ on the Myers-Briggs test; 78% introvert. I'd never heard of the test until you mentioned it in this thread. The explanation that came with my score was fairly accurate.

Go figure.

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The introvert/extrovert argument is null and void; both are compatible with Satanism.

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Yes, it surely is.

This kind of subject makes me remember Kant in one essay he had written, classifying people...That was like " N°1 is blah blah blah, while N°2 is more blah blah..."

We are talking about individualism here, not CLONES !

Honestly, it depends upon what suits me.

I do enjoy plenty of social situations, even if some people are included who I would exclude if I could. I enjoy performing in different aspects, from telling a good joke amongst newly met strangers on up to doing something on a stage.

At the same time, I'm not always likely to talk to people first, but rather, end up being the person approached. I don't always tell everything I know about a subject if it comes up in conversation, even if I'm very familiar and have more knowledge on it than those discussing it. I have artwork I don't feel the need to show others.

I would expect many Satanists to feel this way, not being really one or the other, but that isn't to say all Satanists will feel this way.

I am introverted this does not mean i sit at home isolated all day.Introverted people are the silent ones, they make others feel uncomfortable,the presence of the introvert is solemn, silent introspective. I like to descibe my introvertedness like the beginning of the nuclear mushroom cloud, it sucks everthing up into it then decimates all in its path, other times its very, very deep contemplative states of thought.Introverts operate on an observant level, they are much more independent, intuitive and decerning individuals.Being an introvert this is how it is for me.

I grew up rather keeping to myself, typically introverted. But as my interests in 'self' grew, I realised the need to adapt to different social situations. For business purposes, at times I need to be rather outgoing. Then at the end of the day I breathe a sigh of relief to have it done and enjoy the peace and quiet.

My opinion is that a Satanist is either/neither. They are what they choose to be, which is directed by what they want.

I found the article interesting as I could see myself in it quite strongly! I've always thought of myself more as a loner than an introvert, but at the end of the day they're both just labels!

I do spend a lot of my free time alone, and if I go to the cinema, or a concert, unless I'm going with my son I tend to go on my own, which others sometimes find a bit strange but doesn't bother me. I do tend to find being around others, with a few notable exceptions, tiring, but enjoy social intercourse in small doses - I would find spending a lot of time round others would drive me crazy (or homicidal!).

I have noticed that a lot of people find these traits a bit weird or antisocial, but that's their problem! Interestingly when I was younger I used to see my 'need' to be separate from the 'social whirl' as a negative thing, but as I've got older I now see it as one of my strongest characteristics!

Another clarification:

Introversion and extroversion are in-born tendencies. Brain studies are showing that a person is either one, or the other.

In one study, introverts' brain scans showed that when left alone in a room, most of the activity took place in the memory and emotion centers of the brain. Extroverts, in contrast, showed more activity in the sense-oriented parts of the brain, indicating that they were fully engaged in what the environment was like right now, while introverts recalled other situations where they've been in certain environments, and re-lived their feelings of those experiences.

Based on my understanding, introverts also process information through a different pathway than extroverts, and that process is "powered" by a different neurotransmitter. The extrovert pathway is shorter, and is powered by adrenalin and serotonin. The introvert pathway is longer, and is powered by acetylcholine. I don't entirely understand this part yet, but the research does indicate that whether you're an I or an E fundamentally depends on your brain chemistry and genetics.

But, one's moods change from day to day, moment to moment, so there will be days when an extrovert wants to be left alone to read, and an introvert wants to go out and party. Everyone experiences that. But, their fundamental temperament and preference remains the same, despite daily fluctuations.

Also, regardless of what you are, you can still choose certain behaviors at certain times, for certain purposes. Being able to do this is actually essential for getting along in life. There's a great book called "The Introvert Advantage," that gives tips on how introverts can adapt to some of the difficulties and frustrations of daily life, by developing new skills, and turning their qualities into strengths.

Max said:

<< I have a tendency of despising extroverts because the general consensus of them are pathetic beings who get sympathy and praise among others while having nothing about their character to warrant it.>>

Indeed.

When I'm around hardcore extroverts, I also get annoyed because I feel I'm talking to a springer spaniel on meth. Chatter, chatter, chatter, boingy, boingy, boingy.

I just don't have much respect for people who can't entertain themselves, by themselves. If you can't handle being with yourself, says I, then what's the point? You spend your entire life with yourself, so it makes sense to get acquainted!

I have always been a bit of a loner, somewhat quiet and not a particularly assertive or aggressive person.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking these attributes make me a weak willed/minded person on the contrary. I like to give people enough rope to hang themselves and reserve judgement until I have all the facts.

The old "better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" syndrome is always at the back of my mind. I have had many enjoyable meetings at work, when other people are so eager to impose themselves on proceedings they give themselves away and I keep my council and pick away at their exposed flesh later !

I am a sociable person and am generally affable and easy going, but I am prone to frustration and don't suffer fools gladly. The only thing I have no NEED for is other people, deep down I would be perfectly happy living as a hermit on my own as long as I had a large library of books to keep me occupied. I like a select few family and friends who I enjoy interacting with, but I have to admit I have met a LOT of people I dislike and some people I really do hate with a passion.

I have found people as individuals tend to be ok, but people in groups tend to pricks, as Sid Vicious once said during an interview "Do you make your music for the man in the street ?" Sid - "Fuck no, I've met the man in the street and he's a cunt !".

As for the balance of introverts/extroverts that class themselves as satanists, I've met satanists at both ends of the extreme and have in general got on with them fine.

I understand your point, of course.

But it's just when I read " Satanists are people who are that way, do that way" etc. I'm not talking about finding one's category, I just meant that we're not a species. it's like speaking about this "special DNA in the Satanist" subject.

satanists being generally introverted makes sense to me.


what I consider an extroverted person is someone who is more concerned with others than themselves most of the time, and like to stimulate their senses with things that come from an outside source (watching a movie rather than making one up for enjoyment). very social people.

I am very introverted. Its sort of hard to comment on something like extroversion that ive never really experienced, since its so personal. I cant say anything about it with much conviction. it is fun to think about it though.

The problem with this post :

Each category has different sides, levels, etc...

I'll take this subject seriously when one will show me all of them.

Maybe next life....

"it's hard to be an extroverted misanthrope."

To meet my own personal needs, I find it very easy to to be
extroverted.

For one, if I engage a person in a discussion about themself, it
keeps the topic off of me. Sometimes, I am genuinely interested
like when I meet someone whom I have a lot of respect for. Other
times, like when I am at a party, if someone starts a conversation
with me, I am much happier not telling them much about myself if
it can at all be helped.

Of course, when I am interviewing for a job, it helps if I engage the
interviewer and ask them questions about their experiences with
the company and its products.

Sometimes, I meet a person that I find very interesting and rather
than get "rockstar-itis" around them and say things like "wow,
you're cool" and "gee, I wish I could be as awesome a <noun> as
you are!" I like to be able to find out more about them.

Another thing to consider about being introverted is that if I only
look inside myself for answers to things, my world gets very small
very fast. One slightly related anecdote I have is that last week, I
had almost no actual real-time, face-to-face human interaction.
Then, I was at a coffee shop working on my calculus problems
when a friend who I had not seen in over a month came and sat at
my table. I was so absorbed with what I was doing that it was
difficult to pull my head into the present surroundings. Not only did
I get to express joy about her good news and, which made her
happy, and have a pleasant interaction, I got a hug from a cute
redhead too.

My point is, is that for me, the reasons to be extroverted every now
and then are fairly selfish. Either way, it is my experience-- why
shouldn't I get the most out of it?

To be honest, I don't find any usefulness in labeling myself based off of some studied theory.

To quote Popeye, "I am what I am."

However, if you gain personal enjoyment out of these studies and like the definitions and the psychological experimentations of it, then have at it! Fun is fun.

Nuff said.

Maybe I am an extremevert?

Very few labels appeal to me, but the ones that do, really do--usually because I find them to be particularly apt, rincredibly revealing, or really descriptive.

Psychology is fun.

The second paragraph is an excellent defitniton of myself.

I don't know how reliable is the Myers Briggs personality test, but I am an INTP.

Well this is an interesting topic. My meyer-briggs result is ENTP (supposedly the Inventor, which is fitting...), but the E is 54%, so I am very in the middle about being introverted or extroverted.

Personally I like a healthy mix of people and aloneness. Now, certainly I am selective about the people, although for networking purposes one wants to be able to interact with their colleagues. It also varies as to how many people I prefer to be around. Generally my favorite person to be with would be my SO; I usually would rather go out with him alone than take a group of "friends" up on an invite to pal around. As a matter of fact, the latter is quite rare. But I do a lot of interacting with people since I act.

I don't really see a neccessity for Satanists to be either way. Sure, it's obvious that more misanthropes are going to deal with it by being more introverted, or maybe the introverts are dealing with that by unconsciously being misanthropes. I wouldn't say I am a misanthrope - I would say that I am highly selective and probably quite judgemental, but I don't classify myself as a misanthrope.

So I'm a mix of extra/intro. It would be interesting to see a poll of Satanists' results of the Meyers Briggs.

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Your thoughts? Introverts and Extroverts alike, speak up!

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Interesting. But.. what if one is both?

I, myself, would fall into both catagories, depending on the situation.

In the workplace, I am very extroverted and sociable. I must be, in order to have the proper influence over others.

When I am online, I am very extroverted as well.

When I am alone, I don't give humans a second thought, unless there is a reason. I can go long hours in silence, totally ignoring the "outside world."

It depends, really. Therefore I would either fall into both catagories equally or, if I must choose.. I am neither.

I am definitely a per-vert though.

INXJ

edit: That's INTJ/INFJ borderline. And that's just from casual on-line tests, not official at all.

INTJ

Two different online tests had me at ISTJ. I am not sure how accurate they are. I am basically introverted, but if I need to be I can be extroverted, I just don't like it. Only slightly more sensing than intuitive, everything else was above 80 pct.

Likewise. I fall into both camps depending on where I am and who I'm with. I can party like the best of them (probably better!) but also take a week or two a year to go and spend some time with myself, somewhere remote, and just spend the time catching up on some reading, walking in the countryside, writing, taking photographs and just being.
Like black/white, left/right, maybe there's some middle ground? Or maybe, like perversion, it's a matter of relativity? Some uptight individuals think anything other than sex in the 'missionary' position is perverted. I used to share a house in my youth with an very very camp gay man, who was so extroverted than anyone else, no matter who, seemed introverted when he was about!
Although at the end of the day, does it really matter? If you're happy in your skin, then that's what counts.

My example of thoughts about what is an introvert and what is an extrovert. Introvert someone who waits to be spoken too. Extrovert someone who starts a conversation. I believe that I started out as an introvert, as I get older I'm headed more towards being an extrovert. I've seen other people, who start out as extrovert's and as they get older become more like introverts.

I would think that introvert's would be better at self reflection. Where as extroverts would be better at taking what they learned from other's to apply to themselves. Each has its advantage, to be some where in the middle, would work best for me.

I think extroverts make better leaders. They can communicate what it is that they want from someone else. Introverts enjoy working by themselves.

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If you're happy in your skin, then that's what counts.

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Very true. Labels tend not to stick to me very well, anyway.

Not suprisingly, according to humanetrics.com I am ISTJ

Analysis from that site:

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Your Type is
ISTJ
Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
67 1 62 44

Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:

* distinctively expressed introvert
* slightly expressed sensing personality
* distinctively expressed thinking personality
* moderately expressed judging personality

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I would suspect that the vast majority of those that frequent LttD would be Introverted as extroverts would be more likely to be 'out sociallizing' than posting to an internet messageboard.

I suppose the only way to get a definitive answer to the whether Satanists, by nature, tend to be introverts without encountering selection bias would be for the Administration to send and score Myers-Briggs type tests to every Citizen in the Empire.

While the results would be interesting I don't see that happening as I'm sure they have much more important things to do.

Hmmm... I took a similar test to this one that said I was an extrovert. *shrug*

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INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
11 75 12 44
You are:

* slightly expressed introvert
* distinctively expressed intuitive personality
* slightly expressed thinking personality
* moderately expressed judging personality

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Ack on the thinking one, must be all those empathetic sympathetic questions. Some how empathy emplies that you don't think? Yeah so I'm a bit emotionally drivin. Judging usually takes care of any unwanted empathetic thoughts.