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#150440 - 03/14/06 05:02 AM Re: Violence [Re: BEHERIT]
DarkApollyon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 581
Loc: Brighton, England
Quote:

I am feeling angry and i dont deal with it well.How does a Satanist deal with it.I usually get violent.I am a Satanist and this is keeping in step with the Satanic bible. Violence is condoned even promoted by The Doktor.




I must say this does seem a rather knee-jerk and immature reaction to getting angry - the kind of thing my 11 year old son does when he is thwarted in something important to him (though in his case the outburst is usually directed against objects rather than people - not that I let feel him it is acceptable behaviour, however). Having recently reread The Satanic Bible cover-to-cover I can't recall Dr LaVey condoning actual physical violence towards another, except in self defense. I think one needs to be careful about interpreting/twisting Dr LaVey's writings to justify one's own shortcomings or whims!
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#150441 - 03/14/06 05:56 AM Silence as a Source of Information [Re: BEHERIT]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Silence is always a poor source of information. I am curious about this user for obvious reasons.

I have looked through all the posts on this thread, and reviewed all of this user's posts. Since he has not replied to any of them, I thought I'd take a cruise through the data and see what I can gather about this user, and what can be either pieced together or inferred from his current discussions. I certainly do not think of anything I have written below as FACT. It is nothing more than surmise, but since there is nothing coming back from him, I feel guessing is still a valid tool.

From what I gather, I would expect he--and it is a he, I'm pretty sure, is probably an introspective, yet explosive late teen, early twenties, speaks english as a second language--yet is more fluent verbally than in writing and for want of precision in terms, tends to over-dramatize ideas which have a natural gravity. He probably lives/lived on a farm which probably helped shape his antithesis to eating meat, which he has not done in a long enough period of time to expect it would cause a differential immunity issue. Raised by xian parents who subjected him to the typically excessive stifling treatment they are known for, it appears they have evoked a strong and understandable sense of hostility in him. I expect being subjected to such a regimented upbringing, it is highly likely he is seeking the structure of a compatible system. I would guess that although it is possible he might be on the brink of taking some type of hostile action, the profile of his post seems to match the curiosity style of his other posts, wherein he is seeking to typify those whom he is identifying with.

True-sounding is no guarantee, but I would expect he is simply trying to determine his policies rather than whether or not to do harm. I get the sense that he tends to think through things more clearly than he writes them, and is a long-time veteran of loneliness and thinking things through for himself--usually coming to responsible decisions, but of a tendency to see supportive activities as "stepping-stones" rather than the beginnings of friendship.

I hope he takes the advice presented on this thread. If it is guidance he is seeking, it's all here for him. Here's hoping he takes the opportunity to avail himself of the wisdom herein, and let's us know how he is faring.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#150444 - 03/14/06 10:29 AM Re: I disagree. Count to 10. [Re: Nemo]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Good insight, Magister.

It may be a bit advanced for Beherit, but it's a useful lesson, all the same.

That being said, I'm actually going to agree in part with Uncleherpe. There are instances when something truly outrageous happens, and really, there's no good reason for it to have happened.

There are things worth getting frustrated about, and, from personal experience, there are things that will continue to irritate or upset you in some manner, no matter how you rationalize it or what constructed narrative you place on top of it. (Or, you'll spend more time trying to re-shape or re-define the emotion than you would've if you had allowed yourself a full emotional catharsis.)

If someone pisses on my carpet, I'm not going to nonchalantly consider it just a random event of reality. I'm going to assume that wanting a carpet that isn't pissed on deliberately is more-or-less a reasonable expectation for reality. I'm going to be annoyed, angry, and perplexed.

Emotions are part of the human experience, and they can be useful, if channeled properly.

The key is, what are you going to do with your emotion, and what are you going to do about the situation that upset you? That's where your insight comes in. It may be appropriate to get angry, at least initially, but staying angry is another matter, especially if that anger prevents you from dealing with the situation effectively. There's a point at which you do finally have to say, "My expectation didn't match reality," and use that to cool down, and plan your next move (which may involve cleaning the carpet).
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#150445 - 03/14/06 11:52 AM Re: Rational Anger [Re: uncleherpe]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Well, I will simply disagree with this. I can, in fact, choose not to get angry about you pissing on my carpet. I may choose to get angry, but I certainly am able to make that choice. If for some reason it was not to my benefit to get angry about it, I could choose not give you the power to evoke that emotion in me. I could just take steps to make you pay in some way for your action, but I don't have to necessarily get angry to do that.

As I said, I have controlled my emotions many times. I will continue to control them when I see the benefit in doing so.

I think Magister Nemo has explained it very well, as usual, and there is nothing more for me to add.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#150446 - 03/14/06 12:55 PM Re: Rational Anger [Re: dragondancer]
uncleherpe Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 499
Quote:

Well, I will simply disagree with this. I can, in fact, choose not to get angry about you pissing on my carpet. I may choose to get angry, but I certainly am able to make that choice. If for some reason it was not to my benefit to get angry about it, I could choose not give you the power to evoke that emotion in me. I could just take steps to make you pay in some way for your action, but I don't have to necessarily get angry to do that.

As I said, I have controlled my emotions many times. I will continue to control them when I see the benefit in doing so.

I think Magister Nemo has explained it very well, as usual, and there is nothing more for me to add.


Hail Satan!





when I hear this its generally from someone who has never gone through anything thats really tough. People are not emotionless robots who choose what they feel. They react to their enviroments, no one can just be their core and remain completely unnafected by others, especially if you are already emotionally invested in a situation or a person and shit hits the fan. If everyone could just choose how they felt all the time there would be no need for ritual or art or anything at all.

there is a certain level of choice in emotion, but to act like its TOTAL is just plain silly. When youve been traumatized or lost someone the choice lies in how you deal with it.

If there werent negetive emotional consequences to things people would not grow or change, they would not learn from their choices or experiences.
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#150447 - 03/14/06 03:54 PM Re: Rational Anger [Re: uncleherpe]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia
Quote:

when I hear this its generally from someone who has never gone through anything thats really tough. People are not emotionless robots who choose what they feel. They react to their enviroments, no one can just be their core and remain completely unnafected by others, especially if you are already emotionally invested in a situation or a person and shit hits the fan. If everyone could just choose how they felt all the time there would be no need for ritual or art or anything at all.

there is a certain level of choice in emotion, but to act like its TOTAL is just plain silly. When youve been traumatized or lost someone the choice lies in how you deal with it.

If there werent negetive emotional consequences to things people would not grow or change, they would not learn from their choices or experiences.




In the forty-eight years that I have inhabited this earth, I assure you I have not lived in a bubble. In fact, it has been during the toughest times in my life that I have learned when to let go and when to control my emotions. These are the very lessons that give you practice and teach you how to control your emotions.

Just raising children is an inherent lesson in controlling emotion believe me. Many times I wanted to be very angry at my offspring but knew that it would not be to anyone's benefit.

Again, sometimes it is in your best interest to change the emotion that you would normally feel to some other emotion. It is possible to do. I do not say that I am an emotionless robot, most of the time I feel my emotions freely and act upon them as freely. I am only saying that you do not have to be a slave to those emotions. I have lost many people close to me in my life, including my first born child. I did not and would not control the emotion that I felt at that time. What would be the point?

I am only saying (again) that it is possible to control your emotions, not that you should control every emotion you ever have. Now that would be silly and very detrimental to your well being!

Any further discussion on my part is just repeating what I have already said several times.


Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#150448 - 03/14/06 04:35 PM Re: Rational Anger [Re: dragondancer]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Truly learning how to shape and channel your emotions and attitudes takes practice. You have to make a point of going in, challenging the emotions or reactions you want to change, and actively replacing them with new rationales, which lead to the creation of new emotions.

Still agreeing with Uncleherpe that some situations are so pissy, you can't help but feel a spark of anger, sadness, frustration, confusion, anxiety, or what have you. From there, you can look at the emotion and re-shape it by reforming your opinion of it, and you can (and should) make a plan of how to respond. Over time, you can increasingly train your reflexive emotions to respond in certain ways, but some reflexes are, more or less, what they are.

In the end, however, you can always choose how you are going to respond to a given situation, and what you are going to do about it.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#150450 - 03/14/06 04:54 PM Re: Rational Anger [Re: uncleherpe]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
As Magister Nemo pointed out, clinical research has shown it is possible to control the urge associated with primary emotion.

Experience is not always reality.

The science of physics is a beautiful example of this point.

Sometimes opinion and experience can lead us wrong.

It's going to happen. But when objective research and evidence can be put forth to show that we are wrong, it's within our best interests to accept it.

Authoritative claims have no place without the proper evidence.

Realistically a few anecdotes are not sufficient to build a case.

Don't think that I'm attacking you because I'm not.

I'm just offering some friendly advice.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#150451 - 03/14/06 04:55 PM Re: resource [Re: Poetaster]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12406
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Albert Ellis in his own way deals with anger in a book by the same title as I recall.

The issue of identity is subsumed within Ellis' concepts but someday I will write my own book.

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#150452 - 03/14/06 04:57 PM Re: resource [Re: Nemo]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2333
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:

but someday I will write my own book.




I'd like to place my order in advance.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#150453 - 03/14/06 05:01 PM You get the Nemo Support Award! [Re: Quiddity]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12406
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Since you agree with me that makes you a good person!

More seriously, thank you for the compliment.

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#150454 - 03/14/06 05:21 PM Re:Appropriate (useful) versus inapproapriate [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12406
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I'm going to be annoyed, angry, and perplexed.




Maybe.

Your assumptions are overall not incorrect and you probably know your reaction far better than I can guess.

Annoyed and perplexed would be appropriate but anger would not help you in this case.

The key is to not confuse appropriate emotions that can be useful to you with inappropriate emotions that can only screw things up for you.

Frustration can be a strong and motivating emotion. It is often (though not always) an appropriate emotional response. Frustrated people have killed people. Anger is not necessary to ďjustifyĒ strong responses.

It is appropriate to feel frustration when your desires are thwarted. However if your expectations are unrealistic (and you are therefore ignoring the Balance Factor) then frustration is stemming from neurotic nonsense you have internalized and are telling yourself.

For example, I would agree that it is appropriate to feel frustrated and annoyed (and perplexed!) if someone enters your home and deliberately pisses on your carpet.

It would become inappropriate if you invited them back and they did it again!

To become angry at the first incidence requires that you had to demand that this person should not have done this.

But they already did it!.

Anger always requires that demand.

Frustration when your desires are not met by reality is often appropriate.

Anger is a last ditch emotion to fight for your life when just about everything else has failed. It might work if you are lucky.

Otherwise, anger is almost always prompted by neurotic misjudgments about reality and only causes you more, not fewer, problems.

By the way, this will not make sense to the person who wants to justify their angry responses to something.

Anger does end rational thinking almost always.

It can be controlled however and it can be reduced as well.

But that requires right effort to accomplish.

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#150455 - 03/14/06 05:29 PM Re: resource [Re: Nemo]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
"51 new and used copies - available from $0.12"

Not bad!

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#150456 - 03/14/06 05:35 PM Anger that "must" happen [Re: uncleherpe]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12406
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

When youve been traumatized or lost someone the choice lies in how you deal with it.




Your assumption is that some events always require anger.

Reminds me of the fellow who didnít know if he should laugh or cry when his brand new car went off a cliff with his mother-in-law!

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#150457 - 03/14/06 05:37 PM Re: resource [Re: DataLore]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12406
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Try abe.com for better choices. Amazon often doesn't have the old used books in stock. Be careful there.

Also remember libraries!

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