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#166493 - 05/30/06 12:38 AM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: man_mind]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>No, that is a sentence that negates itself, becuase it missed the annitial point,

Of course it negates itself. However, that was the point and I found your point flawed. But again, that is my point.

The wishy-washy jargon I speak of is all the talk of energy and chemicals that once composed a person. In the end, death is death and all the energy of a demised person does not matter one bit. They are still very much dead.

I think it is a bit silly to gain some kind of satisfaction out of the thought that once you are dead your chemical make-up can be reused. But that is just my nasty opinion.

Again, if I saw a dead person on TV, which happens quite a bit, I would still say, "Oh, yeah. That guy is dead." I might have enjoy that person's skills but, sad to say, he is dead. Which I don't like. I much rather have skilled and talented people alive.

Did I misread your post or did I catch you in one of those weird moods? Your post was trying to fabricate some kind of immortality through chemistry and I disagreed with it.

>>Anyway, do YOU wave bye-bye to your poopies?

Of course I do. Who doesn't?
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#166494 - 05/30/06 04:17 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Nemo]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

Quote:

There is no proof that shows otherwise.




I would suggest that your statement needs to define brain death as complete brain destruction to be more accurate.




Sorry I wasn't clear enough but that is exactly what I meant when I said, "Once your brain shuts down through the process of death it's all over." I was referring to complete brain destruction. Biological or irreversible death. Basically when the organs and/or tissues have undergone irreversable changes to the point where resuscitation will be impossible. The brain is one of the three organs that make up the vital tripod of life, the other two being the heart and lungs. When any one of these organs shut down somatic death occurs.

Quote:

There do exist many examples of EEG flatliners who are resuscitated and live long lives to tell the tale.




You are referring to "clinical death" which is the first stage of somatic death generally lasting no longer than 5 minutes. It is during this stage that if body conditions permit and timely medical attention is recieved, the person can be resuscitated. This is too short of a time span to bring back accurate tales of an afterlife. Because they were only dead for a few minutes or seconds, they could have been hallucinating or even dreaming due to the brain and body going through so much trauma.


Quote:

There is still much science does not understand.

There is still much that science has gotten wrong.




Of course. However in the case of life after death, that is something that is impossible to verify during this time...if ever. Until we can re-animate people who have been dead for days, months or years (clinical death is not long enough to tell of a real afterlife) we will never know. And that is IF they do not come back retarded


Edited by Carkosa (05/30/06 04:39 AM)

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#166495 - 05/30/06 01:17 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Discipline]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Quote:

I think it is a bit silly to gain some kind of satisfaction out of the thought that once you are dead your chemical make-up can be reused. But that is just my nasty opinion.




Firstly, I'm not trying to do anything; be it make my self feel special, or promote everlasting life through some silly idea like reincarnation.

Never said that, not once. Never implied it either.

Quote:

Did I misread your post or did I catch you in one of those weird moods? Your post was trying to fabricate some kind of immortality through chemistry and I disagreed with it.




In short; my post, if it had been replying to a post about a tree, standing or fallen, or even a non living object, like a pencil, now being shavings in a baggy, is still what it once was, in, the, PHYSICAL sense of it all.

My post was not spiritual, in any way shape or form.

Not sure how else to put this.

Well, if I ever figure out another way, I'll be sure not to post it. This is boring me now.

Normally you have been really good at replying to posts. I'm not sure what happened here. Maybe, as you said,

Quote:

did I catch you in one of those weird moods?




This is a case of miscommunication that could be resolved by one or both parties taking a time out to absorb what is being said.

Pretty much, we are saying the same thing through two different approaches.
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#166496 - 05/30/06 01:32 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Carkosa]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Quote:


Of course. However in the case of life after death, that is something that is impossible to verify during this time...if ever. Until we can re-animate people who have been dead for days, months or years (clinical death is not long enough to tell of a real afterlife) we will never know. And that is IF they do not come back retarded





Hours is no problem if the patient is hyperthermic. Days, not yet but working on it. Centuries, not yet but working on it (and requires preperation).
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#166497 - 05/30/06 02:17 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Cholinergic]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

Quote:


Of course. However in the case of life after death, that is something that is impossible to verify during this time...if ever. Until we can re-animate people who have been dead for days, months or years (clinical death is not long enough to tell of a real afterlife) we will never know. And that is IF they do not come back retarded





Hours is no problem if the patient is hyperthermic. Days, not yet but working on it. Centuries, not yet but working on it (and requires preperation).




Did you mean Hypothermic or Hyperthermic? Either way, both result in brain damage if it was the clinical (or biological if we are going to rely on cryosuspension) cause of death. What good is coming back if you are going to be retarded?


Edited by Carkosa (05/30/06 02:21 PM)

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#166498 - 05/30/06 06:11 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Carkosa]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
Clinical death induced under controlled circumstances (or on rare occasions with drowning victims) can result in full recovery and is often used during certain types of surgery. And I meant hypothermic (always get those 2 mixed up) of course.

What this goes to show of course is that under appropiate conditions those few minutes of time after cardiac arrest can be extended if the patient's metabolism is slowed down and it need not produce brain damage. Personally, even if it did always cause brain damage I would still prefer to come back brain damaged and retarded than to not come back at all.
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#166499 - 05/30/06 06:28 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Cholinergic]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
Quote:


I would still prefer to come back brain damaged and retarded than to not come back at all.




I couldn't agree more.

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#166500 - 05/30/06 07:03 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

Worship derives directly from the meaning of "to work for".
Humans are naturally inclined to serve, to work for others, to be slaves.





Oh fantastic!!! Thanks so much, as if I don't hate working for someone else already, you have publicly declared what I hate about myself the most

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#166501 - 05/30/06 07:11 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Mr_47]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State

I would still prefer to come back brain damaged and retarded than to not come back at all.


Oh, not me! Hell no.

My feeling is, if I truly do come out retarded or vegetative "I" am already dead, because "I" am my thoughts, my abilities, my skills, my knowledge, my humor, my memories, and my intelligence. I am not just an organic sack of meat who deserves applause just for breathing. I'd hate to lose my remaining dignity and be a burden on my loved ones, too.
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#166502 - 05/30/06 08:54 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: man_mind]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I refer you to Buddhism and the concept of Anatta. Basically, it's impossible to define oneself except in terms of things around you since your atoms have always existed in some form or another. Anatta isn't really nothingness, but the absence of independent existance. They do a really good job delving into the subject.

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#166503 - 05/30/06 09:10 PM Re: Unprovable assumptions. [Re: Nemo]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I stand by my statement that physical death is physical death. However, that says nothing about spiritual death. That is a religious matter and not one that could or should be taken into the realm of science with misconceptions on thermodynamics. Thanks for the posts magister. As always, there is wisdom in believing in only what can be known as absolute.

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#166504 - 05/30/06 09:20 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Nemo]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I find it reassuring to hear some of what I've been saying for years echoed by someone else. I know I'm not just crazy anymore. One thing I've tried to tell people, and a concept that many of them can't grasp, is that there is one of two possible worlds you can live in. A "should" world and an "is" world. People who live in a should world think that the world should be a certain way. Obviously these people are filled with angst and frustration since the world will never be what it should be. The second, and more enlightened group, lives in the world as it is. They accept the world not as they think it should be, but as it really exists. These people see the opportunities for making changes as they present themselves rather than banging their head against the wall trying to change human nature or perform some other impossible task.

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#166505 - 05/30/06 09:41 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: ModernTantalus]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
I'll give that a read over. (Search for the concept)

So you do know, I found this idea in a completely scientific arena, not through any means of religious thought, or theology.

It is interesting to note, that if we are speaking of the same things, that a religion and a scientific fact would hold the same concepts as true.
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Art Site Updated.
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"A priest is one who harbors the ill and gives them faith because they fear death and they are weak."

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#166506 - 05/30/06 10:07 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: man_mind]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
Zen Buddhism actually states that there is no afterlife. Rebirth simply refers to being reborn into different states of mind. My initial attraction to Buddhism was based on it's logical nature and agreement with logic, but I had to give it up because it still has a few tenents of faith and it's too passive for my tastes.

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#166507 - 05/30/06 11:04 PM Re: Nemo's 100th birthday press interview [Re: Nemo]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
...

Hilarity at it's finest!!
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