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#166508 - 05/30/06 11:13 PM Re: Unprovable assumptions. [Re: Nemo]
Stev2 Offline


Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 183
Quote:

I agree that attention to your life now is where the goodies are.

I also suggest that there are many things you can do and refrain from doing that will probably increase your lifespan.

However then I read this:

Quote:

You won't be conscious to validate it after your own death.




And exactly how can you know if that is true either?






Any kind of satanic mysticsm is fun and a boost to the ego. But, I agree that the goodies are here and now.

It's not satanic to hold any kind of mystical tenet seriously.
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#166509 - 05/31/06 02:05 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: TrojZyr]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
I used to agree with this until I considered the alternative.

The choice is between never experiencing any joy at all and experiencing simple pleasures again. I choose being able to experience pleasure again. My 6 month old son is not yet highly intelligent but I can see him experience the simple pleasures in life. Even if he did stay at the same level as he is now for life his life would still be worth something to him.
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#166510 - 05/31/06 05:58 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: TrojZyr]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:


I would still prefer to come back brain damaged and retarded than to not come back at all.


Oh, not me! Hell no.

My feeling is, if I truly do come out retarded or vegetative "I" am already dead, because "I" am my thoughts, my abilities, my skills, my knowledge, my humor, my memories, and my intelligence. I am not just an organic sack of meat who deserves applause just for breathing. I'd hate to lose my remaining dignity and be a burden on my loved ones, too.




My sentiments exactly! I would hate to be in a wheelchair and diapers, drooling everywhere with the mind of a baby. That is a sad and pathetic way to come back into this world. It is also a waste of immortality because I cannot not do anything with my life. I do not want to be remembered this way by those who knew me as the woman I once was.

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#166511 - 05/31/06 11:23 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Carkosa]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Precisely.

I see Gareth's point about simple pleasures, and it's a good one indeed.

But, I still find the idea of drooling, mumbling, and cavorting about in my own filth to be highly objectionable, simply because being that way steals from me what I used to value most, and because I am, in that state, a horrendous, tragic burden on everyone around me.

Practically everyone with an IQ under 110 scares me, I admit, so the last thing I want to do is join that club.

Now, if I come out of an accident mildly retarded, damaged, or slow, but my inner self is more or less intact, I can handle that.
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"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#166512 - 05/31/06 11:32 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: TrojZyr]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I can see your point. I myself scored a 127 on my last IQ test so I guess in that perspective, to fall from that to an iq of under 100 (especially into the 70's or 80's) would be absolutely terrifying. In my original argument I was trying to support the ideal of preserving my life. In reflection of that, to lose what I am inside, truly would be a greater loss than losing my life. I would rather be remembered as the strong, intelligent and independent being I am now than a drooling, helpless, shit infested vegetable. I guess originally I was thinking of being moreso a mildly damaged individual as a result of whatever rather than perceiving myself a vegetable. I still maintain I would rather survive at some loss than die, however I wouldn't want to be incapable of helping myself or even acknowledging who I am in my own personal greatness.

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#166513 - 05/31/06 03:14 PM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: TrojZyr]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
funny... I was just thinking about that.
last time I got my IQ checked I was 145, I know I'll be depressed if I become a 135- so I am certain I would rather die if I get below 110.
I would never ever want to live after irreparable brain injury- it's the most redundant and shameful existence I can think of.
It's the same with having a fetus with potential of being retarded- I will not think twice before I have an abortion. Giving birth to a retarded baby always scared the shit out of me.. ~knocking on wood~ (and that's a figure of speech) I would not know what to do… its just awful..
I wish it for no one. Not even for my enemies.
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There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#166514 - 05/31/06 03:19 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: ModernTantalus]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:

Zen Buddhism actually states that there is no afterlife. Rebirth simply refers to being reborn into different states of mind. My initial attraction to Buddhism was based on it's logical nature and agreement with logic, but I had to give it up because it still has a few tenents of faith and it's too passive for my tastes.




~SAME HERE~
I stated EXACTLY this in another thread
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#166515 - 05/31/06 10:30 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: man_mind]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>My post was not spiritual, in any way shape or form.

I never called it spiritual, just that I disagree with your approach.

>>Pretty much, we are saying the same thing through two different approaches.

I can agree with that. Or is it, agree to disagree?
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#166516 - 05/31/06 11:12 PM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Discipline]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Good question.

I really see it as we are saying the same thing from two different approaches.

Who knows?

In short, I say flesh is flesh, rotted or not, and if it is rotted, you are dead. If you are dead, then you are dead. The flesh is still flesh.

I wasn't commenting on the brain portion of it, as in the you, the "I" inside, or the driver in the vehicle, or if that driver went of to Jebus land!

So it is safe to assume, to me anyway, thatwe are indeed saying the same thing through two different approaches. You merely decided to ignore, or perhaps not give a shit about my approach, in a way that you would have had to reflect on something you just don't care about.

I can respect that.

What is irritating, is the fact that you just didn't have to reply, if this is the case.

Seems like time better spent washing dishes.
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#166517 - 06/01/06 12:13 AM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: man_mind]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Ignore? Not give a shit?

I did not ignore it and if I did not give a shit I would not have responded.

I might have been testing your approach and your point. I might have . . .

Yes, I could have not replied, but I did and I rather enjoyed it. I guess that does not make two of us. Sort of selfish of me, would you say?
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#166518 - 06/01/06 08:54 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: TrojZyr]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

Precisely.

I see Gareth's point about simple pleasures, and it's a good one indeed.




Yes, one could argue that in this case ignorance is bliss. Not knowing you are retarded is not going to affect you one bit, and you probably will enjoy your life at this most simple level. How the world sees you will not matter to you either. However, knowing what I know now, I would not want to be re-animated if retardation was inevitable. Being born that way is one thing, becoming that way after once living as an intelligent healthy individual is just too much. It's almost like being born blind. If I were born this way it would simply be a normal part of life for me. If I became blind later in life after knowing the world through sight, I would be so unhappy and miserable for a long time. I would cope but I would feel as if most of my life was taken from me. To me, other than being severely retarded that is the second worst handicap.

Quote:

Now, if I come out of an accident mildly retarded, damaged, or slow, but my inner self is more or less intact, I can handle that.




Yeah that is not so bad. Anything below the mental age of 12-14 is not good.

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#166519 - 06/01/06 10:03 AM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Discipline]
man_mind Offline
Banned

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 957
Well, maybe. Selfish is a good thing though.
_________________________
Art Site Updated.
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New Sample Gallery - Some Art For Sale

"A priest is one who harbors the ill and gives them faith because they fear death and they are weak."

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#166520 - 06/01/06 10:22 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Carkosa]
Cholinergic Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 888
Loc: UK
This whole issue boils down to whether a life with a severe disability is better than death.

Anyone who has ever simply admired the immense joy of existing, simple things such as eating some tasty food can appreciate where i'm coming from here. If the only 2 options were literally death and disability, I would take disability. Death takes everything, all joy that you could ever have for all eternity is gone. Disability (of whatever form) leaves some joys.

Do you want a little bit of happiness or no happiness?
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Yes, I named myself after a neurotransmitter

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#166521 - 06/01/06 10:37 AM Re: The brain is the boss. [Re: Cholinergic]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
Quote:

This whole issue boils down to whether a life with a severe disability is better than death.

Anyone who has ever simply admired the immense joy of existing, simple things such as eating some tasty food can appreciate where i'm coming from here. If the only 2 options were literally death and disability, I would take disability. Death takes everything, all joy that you could ever have for all eternity is gone. Disability (of whatever form) leaves some joys.

Do you want a little bit of happiness or no happiness?




Very well put! I agree.

Let's also not forget how fun it would be to be retarded. People spend tons of money on drugs to get that feeling. Retards get it free of charge. That, my friend, is wise business.
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Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#166522 - 06/01/06 10:43 AM Re: I can't take it anymore! [Re: Discipline]
ninhursag_ki Offline


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 84
Loc: The Deep South
Quote:

Would you assume that a toaster is still a toaster after it has been melted down and recycled into a blender?

** Good point. And for me, even that 'blender' is an objective experience-creation. Consciously, I realize that I am expressing myself physically; and when the times comes, I will express myself non-physically, even non-consciously.

Fear is not something I either have or am concerned with, likewise extinction.


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