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#16777 - 12/03/03 08:46 PM Satanism and the Armed Services
Anonymous
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What do you all think of Satanism in relation to the armed services? We are based primaraly around the ideals of anti-herd mentality and told to question everything. But any form of military service requires you to think, dress, and act like everyone else. To question nothing and to follow orders, is something that is completely unsatanic. But at the same time when our country needs us for something shouldn't we be responcible and help? Yet it had been said that only a fool dies for an ideal. I have been thinking about and pondering this for quite sometime and I would like to see if I could get any sort of feedback so anyone's contribution would be greatly appreciated.
Hail Satan!
DatheR

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#16778 - 12/03/03 09:32 PM Some thoughts.
Nemo Offline
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Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12579
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Patriotism is herd mentality at a high pitch. As General George Patton put it, "Make the other poor sonuvabitch die for his country!"

Armed Forces do not fight for their country, Mom, apple pie or God. They fight for and die for their buddies.

The comradery which comes from battle cannot be found anywhere else. To the extent we are social creatures, the attraction of the small unit of fellow soldiers will be strong.

The (often) mindless disciplines of order and rank in peacetime situations is the price to pay to enter combat. When on leave or out of the war zone otherwise, it can actually be comforting to have a place for everything and everything in its place even if the placement is stupid.

I would not recommend grunt infantry for anyone. Cannon fodder are the words which come to mind.

It is wiser, in my opinion, if you are going into the military and intend to enter combat to get the highest training and most elite status you can find for several reasons.

(1) You will be considered more valuable and less expendable (not cannon fodder).

(2) You will enter combat with a greater likelihood of coming back out again.

(3) The more elite your unit, the less stupid people tend to be in it and commanding it.

If you are going into the military for any reason other than combat, you really should think that through. All of the negatives mentioned in the opening post of this thread will work against you.

Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps should not, in my opinion, be soley a means to attain a college education or job training. There are cheaper overall ways to do that without enslaving yourself to a system which will own you, body and soul.

The military is about fighting and killing. Keep that clearly in mind and you will know whether you belong there or not.

PS - Believe nothing a recruiter doesn't put into your contract in writing.

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#16779 - 12/03/03 09:33 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Many people on this forum are former military.

It is a challenge for someone who declares himself a Satanist openly within the military. It's much like prison, you must camoflage yourself to appear as 'just one of the others'. Yes the military is conformist, but it also teaches you to think and react quickly in a given situation.

There is a time for individuality, and there is a time for working as a team. Working as a team does not preclude individuality. Basic Training is designed to break you of your herd mentality self, and replace it with that of a person who will kill without blinking. It in fact brings out some very basic and very carnal emotions within a person. The military is also a meritocracy, you are promoted based primarily upon your abilities and performace, and less upon tenure.


Quote:

But any form of military service requires you to think, dress, and act like everyone else.




But it's for a reason. People in the world think and dress and act like everyone else, not because of some utilitarian concept, but because they do it out of stupidity. A soldier will survive longer in battle if he trains and works as a team, or pack of hunters, instead of just a 'group of people with guns". Yes there are some things that one subjects oneself to that could be considered 'un-Satanic' but then again that is hardly pragmatic now is it?
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"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

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#16780 - 12/03/03 11:07 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Discipline Offline
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Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
What I am about to write has basically already been stated by Magister Nemo and Felstorm. I just have to have my piece of the pie.

Here are some reasons I joined.

1. I was young and confused.
2. I disliked the stupidity of the civilian society.
3. I was looking for my "baptism of fire", which I achieved and discovered it wasn't what I expected.
4. I’ve always loved tanks. So I became a tanker.

Yes, the military conditions you, not to just follow orders but to also survive combat. I did not like the majority of arrogance I meet in the military but they definitely know how to conduct warfare. I know first hand what an well trained tank crew can do and ( I'm sure Felstorm is familiar with it) how quickly it kills and how much it can destroy (damn, it‘s a beautiful machine).

There are jobs in the military that are desk jobs and paper pushers. A lot of people join to get a "tough guy" image and to gain bragging rights. But what they do all day (and fail to inform others) is sit behind a desk and file reports, stock supplies, etc....

There are some non-combat jobs in the military that do see action because they are attached to a combat unit and so must take up arms. We had a cook with us and we stuck him on a Hummvee with a 240. He did a pretty good job at keeping cool and helping out.

I've seen it when front line troops are low and spread thin they'll bring up rear echelon units to do some police duties or actual combat action. It's pretty funny to see their faces. They seem confused and wish they were back in their air-conditioned offices.

I agree with Magister Nemo. If you don’t want to fight in combat than don’t join the military. If you’re looking for a quick way of making cash, gaining experience, or getting funds for future education, don’t waste your time. There are plenty of things you can do to achieve such things in the civilian sector. Is it worth it to be sent to 130-degree heat in the middle of desert to fight some country you could care less about? No it’s not. The military is a quick but painful way of gaining a career.

I am not saying what they teach does not improve you. There are just other alternatives.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#16781 - 12/04/03 01:58 AM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: Nemo]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
I completely agree, Magister Nemo. You put it better than anyone I know could. Were you ever in the military?
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#16782 - 12/04/03 02:36 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services [Re: Discipline]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

I know first hand what an well trained tank crew can do and ( I'm sure Felstorm is familiar with it) how quickly it kills and how much it can destroy (damn, it‘s a beautiful machine).




You better believe it. Some of the best times of my life were spent encased within 24 inches of DU. I wanted to take my tank home with me but they wouldn't let me. Probably a good thing because I would have put that 120mm to use many many many times.

Quote:

A lot of people join to get a "tough guy" image and to gain bragging rights. But what they do all day (and fail to inform others) is sit behind a desk and file reports, stock supplies, etc....




Non-com MOS find themselves rucking with the Cav, and it hits them like a ton of bricks, that "Good Guy Badge" won't stop bullets. Funny to watch em, they lock up and their eyes look like two peas on a dinner plate. Next thing you know they are laying on the ground bleeding from under their kevlar, gasping with a sucking chest wound.

_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

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#16783 - 12/04/03 05:42 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Hydrax Offline
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 84
I'm in a so-called "Special" unit and it's not all that. We actualy see more bullshit then most other grunt battalions. Grunts are not cannon fodder (or SAW dust) as there is no such thing anymore. Grunts don't charge the lines like nam or the civil war. Everything is high speed low drag. I am an ATL and have never been damaged in any ambush.
I've been with this unit, this "elite status" unit and have attended the same amount of schools or less then some of my grunt buddies. I actualy did more at my POG unit.

As far as the greater likelihood of coming out, have you thought about the greater likelihood of going in?

The more elite your unit the more stuck up people will be in it. (Less stupid is right though)

The fact is there are a lot of pussies in the military and a lot of real killers in BK, QB, or LA. If that's anybodies goal...I personaly have grown out of that.

I agree with everything else Nemo said especially about the slave mentality.
Other people in my unit have assumptions about me being a "devil-worshipper" because of my extensive library of books most of them can't read. (Starting at the title) No body messes with me personaly about that, but let me not tuck my t-shirt in or get a hair cut sunday and see what kind of ass-chewing I get. (Marines only)

Etc. Etc. the point is DON'T DO IT!!!
Unless you have a high tolerance to bullshit. Like a lot of my head soap friends and then...hey.

Action and adventure (probably more than you want four years from now), travel (where they want to send you), colege (if your not deployed) and much more. Sign your soul over today for the next 8 years!

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#16784 - 12/05/03 12:10 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services [Re: Hydrax]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Grunts don't charge the lines like nam or the civil war.

The manner in which it is conducted may change, but in every conventional war, there must be a "charge". I've watched numerous house clearings and seizings of property as they were happening and they all looked like charges to me.

The more elite your unit the more stuck up people will be in it. (Less stupid is right though)

Navy SEALS, Delta Force, and Special Forces (Green Berets) I have known were anything but "stuck up", and it doesn't get anymore elite than them. As a matter of fact, they are some of the coolest guys I've ever known. Join the Intelligence side of the house, now there you will find arrogance. But that's the nature of that beast, and I have come to understand that, having come from being a team playing "grunt". But one important lesson I've learned from working with stuck up people...they have a reputation to uphold, and that motivates them. They can't afford to be subpar or lazy.

The fact is there are a lot of pussies in the military and a lot of real killers in BK, QB, or LA.


Very true (about the pussies), but murderers are hardly "real" killers. For us killing is the means to an end.

Other people in my unit have assumptions about me being a "devil-worshipper" because of my extensive library of books most of them can't read. (Starting at the title)

I either hide the fact or use it to my advantage. Believe me, I feel your pain.

No body messes with me personaly about that, but let me not tuck my t-shirt in or get a hair cut sunday and see what kind of ass-chewing I get. (Marines only)

Yeah, the rest of us get to have long hair and goatees!

Etc. Etc. the point is DON'T DO IT!!!
Unless you have a high tolerance to bullshit. Like a lot of my head soap friends and then...hey.


Have you been a civilian for any length of time?
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#16785 - 12/06/03 10:10 AM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: Nemo]
sleepdirt Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 493
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:

Armed Forces do not fight for their country, Mom, apple pie or God. They fight for and die for their buddies.




Actually, the only disagreement I have on that quote is this: the enlisted men and women and officers of the US Armed Forces may fight and die for their buddies when they are in actual combat (or, even while on liberty while off-base as I've experienced on at least one occasion), but the real reason that anyone is out there is because you're fighting for the United States financial interests. That was something we were taught in Basic Training and is one of the things I've never forgotten. Any time that we're about to go to a war with a nation, look up that country's natural resources. They usually have something that we want to get our hands on.

There are better ways to get a college education with all the different forms of tuition assistance available to you. There are also better jobs under much better working conditions.

You can be open about being a Satanist while in the Armed Forces but always remember that you will usually be stuck with the same people for at least a year or, as in my case, you may work in a job description without many people in it (MOS 8707). My old job only had 3,600 members in the USN and in a rate that small, word travels fast. If you're a "trouble maker" then you may want to do what I did while in and just keep your mouth shut. (From my experience, nobody could prove anything against me and it just made it that much easier to fuck with them! )
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I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

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#16786 - 12/06/03 10:55 AM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: sleepdirt]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
but the real reason that anyone is out there is because you're fighting for the United States financial interests. That was something we were taught in Basic Training and is one of the things I've never forgotten.

I don't know who told you that, but you won't find that in any Army doctrine, whether you are right or wrong. What is "really" going on in Iraq will be up for debate centuries from now.

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#16787 - 12/06/03 01:52 PM Personally...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Let me preface this post with some personal history. My entire family once was, or is currently, military. I learned to shoot and kill at a very young age, and I have no problem killing people. I grew up as an "Army Brat", never living in one place for more than three years. I've been martially motivated and trained since my father deemed me old enough (about age 6). I am also (evidently) very intelligent. As far as knowledge goes, I scored a 99 on the ASVAB in 30 minutes, having not studied for it at all. As far as common sense, well, there's really no mental test for that, its just natural.

Now, for the main post: I recently (in May of 2003) joined the United States Airforce on the delayed enlistment program. My AFS (read: MOS) is 9S100, Applied Geophysics Technician. This is listed as a non-combative job, and there are about 240 of us total. The point of my post is that I didn't join under this MOS because I don't like or can't handle the thought of combat. I joined because its interesting to me, and the overall pay/benefits are decent. The AF is paying for college, yes, but that's not my reason either. My reason is that I've been military my whole life. I actually like it, regardless of the bullshit.

As far as the indoctrination required by the military, that is a personal thing. The way I view it is, "I can THINK whatever I wish, I just have to ACT as they tell me to act."

To summarize: No, the military is not, as a rule, a good career choice for a civilian. However, for those who have always BEEN military, there is no conflict of ideas.

Anyway, just my two cent's worth.


Ave Satanas!

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#16788 - 12/06/03 08:39 PM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: Caesar]
Nemo Offline
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Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12579
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Yes. I am a veteran. I also have had the honor of training US Army Rangers and other Special Ops personnel over the years in hand to hand techniques.

I have the greatest respect for the strong men and women who, like yourself, take up arms as a profession. It is an ancient and honorable profession. Anyone who enjoys liberty should feel gratitude to the military for making it possible.

Civilization depends upon keeping the barbarians subdued and the only thing they ultimately understand is violence. That has become abundantly obvious to any thinking person since the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

Another posting in this thread suggested the US military forces exist to protect the financial interests of the US. To that I have two comments. First, that has been the role of all military groups throughout history. Second, in today's world there is no place which is not of financial interest to the US and thus the statement has become meaningless.

But now I am bridging into politics and this is the wrong forum for that.

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#16789 - 12/07/03 08:53 PM Re: Personally...
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Let me preface this post with some personal history. My entire family once was, or is currently, military. I learned to shoot and kill at a very young age, and I have no problem killing people. I grew up as an "Army Brat", never living in one place for more than three years. I've been martially motivated and trained since my father deemed me old enough (about age 6). I am also (evidently) very intelligent. As far as knowledge goes, I scored a 99 on the ASVAB in 30 minutes, having not studied for it at all. As far as common sense, well, there's really no mental test for that, its just natural.

The audience applauses.. Here is your cookie. Please stop your bragging.

Who did you kill? Did your dad send you out to slaughter the locals? I sometimes wish I could kill those that live in my community but I recognize fantasy from reality.

Was your kill fun? I personal did not enjoy killing. I did it in an act of reaction and self-defense. I am not a ruthless murderer. I can judge the deference between the need to kill and the want to kill.

When you say you have no problem killing people are you saying in an act of protecting yourself or a cold-blooded murder?

Anyone can kill. It is not a hard act to commit. It does not take much to kill an unsuspecting victim. You can purchase a gun almost anywhere. People should understand there are repercussion to their actions (most people do). Not just punishment from the law, there is also emotional and mental repercussions. I had to deal with them. Killing is not an easy thing. Especially when you have no reason to feel hate towards your target. Is he truly trying to kill you because he hates you or is he just trying to survive and do his job like you? Is your victim a stranger who has done you no wrong?

I may be taking this out of proportion but what I got from your statement was that you can kill without any thoughts of your actions. Like a machine. Is this true? It takes a lot to condition a man to kill without regret.

You seemed to be proud of the fact you know how to kill and will. I find that ignorant. Everyone should be able to protect him or herself and kill an opponent that is trying to do the same to you. It is still an ugly act even if it for self-preservation or indiscriminate aggression.

My reason is that I've been military my whole life. I actually like it, regardless of the bullshit.

My entire family history is military as well. I am just one in a long list. That does not mean crap. I just fall into my own family breed condition. I have discovered that who my ancestors were and who I am, are not the same. Therefore I am not my grandfather.

Besides most of the bullshit, I did enjoy the military. There are aspects to the military I found interesting and fun. It just offered a rather empty future.

To each their own.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#16790 - 12/07/03 10:46 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Discipline]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

I am be taking this out of proportion but what I got from your statement was that you can kill without any thoughts of your actions. Like a machine. Is this true? It takes a lot to condition a man to kill without regret.




They call those people sociopaths.

The few of us that have had to carry the unpleasant burden of killing another human, don't like it. It's not something we chose to brag about, but something we wish we never had to do.

I think there is a direct correllation to his chosing a non-combat MOS and the fact that he claims he is immune to the after affects of such actions. It's a well known fact that the further away your enemy is from you, the easier it is to de-humanise them and pull the trigger. Perhaps being a missle tech is the furthest away you can get, you'll never see the looks on your targets faces as they are blown apart. You'll never have to hear the wailing of their women, and see the little kids your shrapnel has crippled for life. You'll never get to see the blood spray as your bullets rip through their bodies, and their gurgled screaming before that horrid silence. That very same silence that follows you back to your tent, it follows you home, and it follows you out of the military and into civilian life.

He's a smart man for not wanting to live with that.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#16791 - 12/07/03 10:54 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Felstorm]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
Even if what you're saying were true to your experience, it's not necessary (really).

Be that as it may, what is hard to deal with for the soldier who has endured combat, to whatever extent, is not the death of his enemies, but his friends.
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#16792 - 12/07/03 11:10 PM Re: Personally...
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10133
As far as knowledge goes, I scored a 99 on the ASVAB in 30 minutes, having not studied for it at all.

Oh, give me a break. I scored a 99 alright, but 30 minutes? I don't think the computer runs fast enough to get through every section of the test in 30 minutes.

This is not to say that nobody can out-do me, but that's a bit far fetched.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#16793 - 12/07/03 11:21 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
SatanicSquid Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: East Bay, Ca
It's been more than a couple years for me, but didn't that test take a good portion of the day? 40 minutes for this section, 30 for this, 90 for that?
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When you are going to do a miracle for an ignorant race, you want to get in every detail that will count; you want to make all the properties impressive to the public eye; you want to make matters comfortable for your head guest; then you can turn yourself loose and play your effects for all they are worth. You can't throw to much style into a miracle. It costs trouble, and work, and sometimes money; but it pays in the end.

A Connecticut Yankee in King Aurthur's Court
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#16794 - 12/07/03 11:32 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Caesar]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
That is true. I lost friends in Iraq and that has been the most haunting thing in my life. I try to shove it into the darkness of my mind but it always seems to pop up now and again. One of my friends that died was a fellow satanist. He was a good man and he will live on through me and his loved ones.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#16795 - 12/07/03 11:36 PM Re: Personally... [Re: SatanicSquid]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10133
Exactly, its a couple hours minimum. 30 minutes is outrageous, the items don't pop up on the screen that fast.

Many people required 4 hours. I think our friend here is exagerrating just a bit.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#16796 - 12/07/03 11:58 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Caesar]
SatanicSquid Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 141
Loc: East Bay, Ca
Quote:

what is hard to deal with for the soldier who has endured combat, to whatever extent, is not the death of his enemies, but his friends




I've never been in combat, but I have been in some highly dangerous situations in my time in the military.

To see one of my sailors hurt, that I have trained, where I was in command, still bothers me. It was unforseeable and the injuries weren't serious, but I still look back and wonder what I could of done to prevent that.

I cannot imagine leading men into combat. Obviously, injuries and death will occur, but to have to look back and wonder, if I could have prevented that, through better training or a split second decision, THAT would haunt me for life.
_________________________
When you are going to do a miracle for an ignorant race, you want to get in every detail that will count; you want to make all the properties impressive to the public eye; you want to make matters comfortable for your head guest; then you can turn yourself loose and play your effects for all they are worth. You can't throw to much style into a miracle. It costs trouble, and work, and sometimes money; but it pays in the end.

A Connecticut Yankee in King Aurthur's Court
Mark Twain

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#16797 - 12/08/03 05:00 AM Re: Personally... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Bastard_Child Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 765
Loc: Montana, USA
I took that particular test 30 years ago sans computers and completed it in an hour and a half. Everyone else was finished in three to four hours. They used my test as the answer key.(100%) They (Navy) wanted to make a nuclear engineer out of me but I didn't have any interest in playing with shit that makes your teeth glow in the dark. My mathematical abilities are atrocious, and I don't like submarines either. So much for that idea...
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Exanimo ab hostilis.

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#16798 - 12/08/03 05:45 AM Re: Personally... [Re: Bastard_Child]
toad Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1182
Loc: texas
I don't remember how long the test lasted... I do know that it was longer than thirty minutes as I pee'd before starting and had to pee again after I finished.
As for the results, I got a 93, and then the army went psyco on me. They then went from the nice recruiter who warmly answers your questions to the annoying email spammer who you can't get to leave you alone and when you finally do get him to stop bothering you he sends his friend over instead.
As you probably surmise from the aforementioned statement; I did not join.
Hail Satan!
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Hail Shadow

I have the power to channel my imagination into ever-soaring levels of suspicion and paranoia.

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#16799 - 12/08/03 10:37 AM Re: Personally... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
Ah the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. I skunked the damn thing. On the down side, I scored a abysmally low 49! One fricking point from 50, which was what I was aiming for to become an MP.

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#16800 - 12/09/03 08:20 PM Re: Ignorance and the Armed Services [Re: Hydrax]
Hydrax Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 84
When I wrote that orginal post I was coming of a horrid day and I might have come off realy bad. I didn't mean to take strikes at my fellow warriors.
I did mean everything I said, but the tone and wording was not an intellegent way of expressing myself.

Maybe it's just becuase Marines are crack babies turned superstar they act...in a way I don't aprove of, and that's where I was coming from saying they were arogant stuck up s.o.b.s, and Recon is. I partied with seals and trained with rangers, and yeah, my problem's mostly with jarheads.

Oohrah!

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#16801 - 12/09/03 11:30 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
I don't think the computer runs fast enough to get through every section of the test in 30 minutes.

The test isn't always run by computer. I took it two years ago on paper (another 99th percentile). While I didn't bother looking back up at the clock as I finished each section to time myself, I did notice that my pencil was usually the first one down.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#16802 - 12/10/03 11:45 PM Re: Personally... [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually, no, its not an exaggeration; I timed myself. And yes, the computer goes that fast. Especially in the grammatical sections. Some of those I answered in 3-4 seconds by skimming.

Also, the 99 was the composite. My M.A.G.E. scores were higher and lower than 99.

Now I did worse on the EDPT. That was pure math with some image analogy, and it was on paper, not computerized. I only made an 86 on that. And took the whole two hours alloted.

Anyway, believe me or not; its what happened.

Ave Satanas

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#16803 - 12/10/03 11:48 PM Re: Personally... [Re: SatanicSquid]
Anonymous
Unregistered


They allot you two hours and thirty minutes for the computerized version. They would probably give you more for the written.

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#16804 - 12/11/03 12:07 AM Re: Personally... [Re: Discipline]
Anonymous
Unregistered


*takes his cookie, but refrains from eating*

If you look at the sentence in my post pertaining to my training, I said I learned to do these things at a young age. I have only had to apply them once, in a justifiable homicide. A break-in, if it interests you. And that was when I was twelve.

And you've said yourself how killing can be cold and emotionless: if it is a reaction, or a reflex. Self-preservation in the most obvious and immediate sense of the word. These reflexes can and are trained all the time. All it takes is the right motivation.

No, killing was not fun. Nor, in my case, was it distasteful. It was necessary in order to protect that which I loved. Therefore I have no problem with what I did.

We weren't speaking of murder, now were we? I do not consider killing in combat situations to be murder, save if those killed are innocent women or children. I do not condone murder in most situations, and I wouldn't know what it feels like in any case.

I appreciate that you have the humanity to be forced to deal with your actions. I do believe, however, that you are reading more into my meanings and motivations than was included in my post.

Ave Satanas.

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#16805 - 12/11/03 12:13 AM Re: Personally... [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


.......where did I mention ANYTHING about missles? I don't believe my MOS has anything to do with the production of missles. I hope not, as I surely don't want to be parked in a missle silo for months at a time.

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#16806 - 12/11/03 01:30 AM Re: Personally...
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Sorry for my earlier attack. I just get a little carried away when I hear people bragging about the ability to kill.

And thank you. I liked your response, it was well thought out.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#16807 - 12/15/03 12:09 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really dislike the idea of going into the armed services. I personally would never do so. And my attitue towards veterans is borderline. Sometimes war is necessary, and we do need people to protect our freedoms (what about protecting them from our own government though?), but the idea of voluntarily giving up your life to someone else for them to tell you what you are going to die for, well that seems very stupid. I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

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#16808 - 12/15/03 05:48 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well.




I personally do not think of it as "worship" that everyone seems to be doing, I consider it showing respect.

Each individual who goes in the military has their own reasons for doing so. Just because someone is "considered" to be blindly taking orders into battle, doesn't mean that I shouldn't respect them any less. But of course this is only my view, and it is my decision on who I choose to give my respect to.

There are probably a few ways this could be viewed and argued, but to each his own.

HS
Vagabond

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#16809 - 12/15/03 06:58 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Samhain Offline


Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 112
Loc: Southern California
I agree.

I would like to also add that a veteran is here because he didn't blindly follow orders. He used his brain and stayed alive.
_________________________
"History is fraud agreed upon."-Napoleon Bonaparte

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#16810 - 12/15/03 09:54 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
RobertE Offline


Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 607
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.




Considering you are not the head of state for your own country, it's safe to assume that there are numerous people whom you have to take orders from as well. So who are you to criticize people who've proven that they can "take orders very well"?

Why should you not feel indebted towards the very people who's blood, sweat, and lives have secured your freedom, and the freedom of your family for as long as it's been in this country?

Just because the government has made arguable decisions in sending our troops to fight wars that possibly were not needed to keep our freedom secured, does not mean that every veteran isn't to be respected for continuing to make sure that freedom was secure.

I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

The belief that military personnel blindly follow orders is just ignorance. I was medically discharged in Basic, so I can't say what is what in the actual service, but right from the start I remember being told to question all orders, and refuse any that you consider immoral or illegal. Sure a court martial may tell you you were wrong and you may be punished, but that's far far better than carrying out illegal orders.

Mayhaps you should spend some time in a muslim country, having to keep your striking features covered, and cowtow to males, and then maybe you'll have a little more respect. If not for the military, then for the rights they help you keep. It's one thing to have the right to say whatever you want, it's another to respect the fact that you have that right, and use it wisely.
_________________________
There is no Hank. You are Karl. Make your own list as you see fit. Eat as many wieners as you want, any way you want, even with a large group of consenting individuals if you want! Take pride in your wiener-eating. Make up large, elaborate ceremonies revolving around the kissing of your own ass, having them photographed and videotaped by the media if possible.

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#16811 - 12/15/03 01:51 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services [Re: RobertE]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Aye.

Military personel do more critical thinking on average than most civilians. If anything, civilians 'blindly follow orders' more than military personnel. Most orders are given for a very good reason, the reasons may not always be obvious at the time, but in a firefight, one doesn't really have time to sit back and think about something, you have to act and act quickly if you wish to stay alive.

The idea that military personnel are all drones with no individuality is patently false. It is conformist but it's for a reason, unlike the civilian herd that is conformist for fear of being ostracised for being 'too different'. The reasons for military conformity are not always readily observable, until a later time when it becomes more than obvious that in combat, order and discipline are your best friends. The ensuing chaos of a firefight, you need this order and discipline to survive.

Those that stick out, and appear different in combat, often get their head blown off. Pretty simple concept. You make yourself stand out, you will get shot at.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#16812 - 12/15/03 02:59 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Bastard_Child Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 765
Loc: Montana, USA
I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

Personally, I have far more respect for an individual that knows the importance of following a given order and doing so even though it puts them into harms way, than for a person who smugly claims superiority because they attend a university that wouldn't even exist but for the efforts of those in the military. It would seem that you take many things for granted. Some of the most intelligent individuals I have ever had the priveledge of associating with were in the military, and they did not blindly follow orders, as you say.

Do you "blindly" attend the university and do as your professors tell you to do (follow orders)? If you do not you will fail your courses, yes? Should I disrespect you for being a slave to their indoctrination? I find your attitude to be very immature and ignorant. A little gratitude never killed anyone. No one says you have to worship veterans, but acknowledging their sacrifice for YOUR security, would certainly be a nice gesture wouldn't it? Or are you too "superior" in intellect to feel it's necessary, because you are so much "better" of an individual, than the men and women of our armed forces?
Grow up little girl.
_________________________
Exanimo ab hostilis.

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#16813 - 12/15/03 04:14 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Some people mistake discipline with obedience. But those are two different things.

Obedience is the average Joe following the dictates of another, generally out of laziness, since most people prefer to be lead than to think for themselves.

Discipline is another thing. Following the orders of a superior officer is necessary for the functioning of an army as a hierarchy and even for the survival of the soldier himself. An undisciplined army will be crushed. An organized one will conquer.

So while obedience implies weakness, discipline can mean strength.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#16814 - 02/28/04 05:13 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Forces
Hydrax Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 84
With out those men enlisting in our armed forces, with out those men fighting, with out those men dying....

You would not have the ability to protest it. We would be speaking one language, that of the king. And we would all be his slaves.

WE sacrifice ourselves for you, every god damned day, so you don't have to...and that's the thanks we get...swell.


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#16815 - 02/28/04 07:51 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Forces [Re: Hydrax]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think my fellow countrymen need to lay off the US military as well and start laying in on our politicians to fund ours, but thats for another forum.
_________________________
this is a recording...

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#16816 - 02/28/04 11:19 PM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: Caesar]
sleepdirt Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 493
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:

I don't know who told you that, but you won't find that in any Army doctrine, whether you are right or wrong.




Different branch. I was in the US Navy and one of the classes that I was in during basic training we were told that by one of our instructors. Someone's got to keep those shipping lanes open!
_________________________
I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

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#16817 - 02/28/04 11:38 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
sleepdirt Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 493
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:

I really dislike the idea of going into the armed services. I personally would never do so.




Be thankful that you have a vagina, then. You're not required to register for Selective Service when you're 18 like us boys and, since all branches of the US Armed Forces are strictly volunteer (at this moment, anyway), you don't have to worry about being made to join.

Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.




Actually, when orders are given in wartime, they're usually given in an effort to save either your life or the lives of others. In peacetime, they're given because there are requirements that need to fulfilled for the functioning of either the unit you're stationed with or the whole service in general.

Following orders does not mean that you put aside your brain. (I can see putting their brains aside everyday when I see them walking in traffic when their vehicles have broken down. If they get run over by a speeding vehicle, good riddance! One less genetic defective.) An order is simply an instruction to get something done and in the military, just as in the civilian world, if you don't follow orders, you will lose your job. Remember that when you decide that you don't have to follow orders.
_________________________
I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

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#16818 - 02/29/04 01:43 AM This issue in ink [Re: Nemo]
Anonymous
Unregistered



I have very little to add to this that has not been said already. However, do yourselves a favor and get in touch with The Trident magazine....the forthcoming issue is a Military theme.

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#16819 - 03/01/04 03:30 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Moria Offline


Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 50
You need to look at the bigger picture here. The military isn't the Borg collective, wherein you lose your individual indentity to the greater whole. All armies and fighting forces are necessary for the security of any nation that wishes to remain one. And the necessity of any war is justifiably determined by whoever wins it. You might think it's more satanic to fuck everyone else over and only ever look out for your own ass, but without the protective shield of this country, you'd be easy prey for the truly satanic who've banded together in cooperation to ride you down as their enemy. Remember, the strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all. Our military folks aren't idiots, they're just doing a very respectable job. Point fingers at the politicians, whose very job it is to control the people.
_________________________
"Satanism has become a gravitational force. We know that it doesn't matter what you were before. Once you discover your Satanic persona, that's it. You knew it was lurking inside you. You just couldn't quite conceptualize it." - Anton Szandor LaVey

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#16820 - 03/02/04 01:20 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
PhyxOz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Kalamazoo, Michigan
I recently left active military service. I was in a Combat job (MOS 19D) and served in the gulf during all the non-sense. I Proudly wore Satanist on my dog tags everyday, regardless of all the shit i took for it. Like most things in life you get out of it what you put into it, you don't have to be mindless or even do what they say with out question. If you have any magical ability you will quickly figure out they are just people like everybody else and how to use it. Whether you like the idea of the military or not they really do give you the freedom you have to even be a satanist. I lost a few close friends to that sand covered dump, and it saddens me to think people take their freedoms (what little ones we really have) for granted without at least appreciating the sacrifice others make.

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#16821 - 03/02/04 01:31 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
I served my country for 8 years (US Army) and proudly proclaimed myself a satanist, even though at the time I was not a CoS member, I took all the bad looks and attitudes that were thrown my way, and gave em right back, in the form of doing my job, which at times wasn't pleasant, getting promoted faster than some, being recognized for performing above and beyond what was expected of me.

By the time I left the armed forces, many who looked upon my religion in distaste, looked upon the man who lived it with respect. Any person who lives their life by the tenets of Satanism, eventually gains much from it. In my opinion and experience, despite what the christian-right wings think.

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