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#16807 - 12/15/03 12:09 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really dislike the idea of going into the armed services. I personally would never do so. And my attitue towards veterans is borderline. Sometimes war is necessary, and we do need people to protect our freedoms (what about protecting them from our own government though?), but the idea of voluntarily giving up your life to someone else for them to tell you what you are going to die for, well that seems very stupid. I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

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#16808 - 12/15/03 05:48 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well.




I personally do not think of it as "worship" that everyone seems to be doing, I consider it showing respect.

Each individual who goes in the military has their own reasons for doing so. Just because someone is "considered" to be blindly taking orders into battle, doesn't mean that I shouldn't respect them any less. But of course this is only my view, and it is my decision on who I choose to give my respect to.

There are probably a few ways this could be viewed and argued, but to each his own.

HS
Vagabond

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#16809 - 12/15/03 06:58 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Samhain Offline


Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 112
Loc: Southern California
I agree.

I would like to also add that a veteran is here because he didn't blindly follow orders. He used his brain and stayed alive.
_________________________
"History is fraud agreed upon."-Napoleon Bonaparte

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#16810 - 12/15/03 09:54 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
RobertE Offline


Registered: 08/31/03
Posts: 607
Loc: Michigan
Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.




Considering you are not the head of state for your own country, it's safe to assume that there are numerous people whom you have to take orders from as well. So who are you to criticize people who've proven that they can "take orders very well"?

Why should you not feel indebted towards the very people who's blood, sweat, and lives have secured your freedom, and the freedom of your family for as long as it's been in this country?

Just because the government has made arguable decisions in sending our troops to fight wars that possibly were not needed to keep our freedom secured, does not mean that every veteran isn't to be respected for continuing to make sure that freedom was secure.

I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

The belief that military personnel blindly follow orders is just ignorance. I was medically discharged in Basic, so I can't say what is what in the actual service, but right from the start I remember being told to question all orders, and refuse any that you consider immoral or illegal. Sure a court martial may tell you you were wrong and you may be punished, but that's far far better than carrying out illegal orders.

Mayhaps you should spend some time in a muslim country, having to keep your striking features covered, and cowtow to males, and then maybe you'll have a little more respect. If not for the military, then for the rights they help you keep. It's one thing to have the right to say whatever you want, it's another to respect the fact that you have that right, and use it wisely.
_________________________
There is no Hank. You are Karl. Make your own list as you see fit. Eat as many wieners as you want, any way you want, even with a large group of consenting individuals if you want! Take pride in your wiener-eating. Make up large, elaborate ceremonies revolving around the kissing of your own ass, having them photographed and videotaped by the media if possible.

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#16811 - 12/15/03 01:51 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services [Re: RobertE]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Aye.

Military personel do more critical thinking on average than most civilians. If anything, civilians 'blindly follow orders' more than military personnel. Most orders are given for a very good reason, the reasons may not always be obvious at the time, but in a firefight, one doesn't really have time to sit back and think about something, you have to act and act quickly if you wish to stay alive.

The idea that military personnel are all drones with no individuality is patently false. It is conformist but it's for a reason, unlike the civilian herd that is conformist for fear of being ostracised for being 'too different'. The reasons for military conformity are not always readily observable, until a later time when it becomes more than obvious that in combat, order and discipline are your best friends. The ensuing chaos of a firefight, you need this order and discipline to survive.

Those that stick out, and appear different in combat, often get their head blown off. Pretty simple concept. You make yourself stand out, you will get shot at.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#16812 - 12/15/03 02:59 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Bastard_Child Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 765
Loc: Montana, USA
I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.

Personally, I have far more respect for an individual that knows the importance of following a given order and doing so even though it puts them into harms way, than for a person who smugly claims superiority because they attend a university that wouldn't even exist but for the efforts of those in the military. It would seem that you take many things for granted. Some of the most intelligent individuals I have ever had the priveledge of associating with were in the military, and they did not blindly follow orders, as you say.

Do you "blindly" attend the university and do as your professors tell you to do (follow orders)? If you do not you will fail your courses, yes? Should I disrespect you for being a slave to their indoctrination? I find your attitude to be very immature and ignorant. A little gratitude never killed anyone. No one says you have to worship veterans, but acknowledging their sacrifice for YOUR security, would certainly be a nice gesture wouldn't it? Or are you too "superior" in intellect to feel it's necessary, because you are so much "better" of an individual, than the men and women of our armed forces?
Grow up little girl.
_________________________
Exanimo ab hostilis.

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#16813 - 12/15/03 04:14 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Some people mistake discipline with obedience. But those are two different things.

Obedience is the average Joe following the dictates of another, generally out of laziness, since most people prefer to be lead than to think for themselves.

Discipline is another thing. Following the orders of a superior officer is necessary for the functioning of an army as a hierarchy and even for the survival of the soldier himself. An undisciplined army will be crushed. An organized one will conquer.

So while obedience implies weakness, discipline can mean strength.
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#16814 - 02/28/04 05:13 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Forces
Hydrax Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 84
With out those men enlisting in our armed forces, with out those men fighting, with out those men dying....

You would not have the ability to protest it. We would be speaking one language, that of the king. And we would all be his slaves.

WE sacrifice ourselves for you, every god damned day, so you don't have to...and that's the thanks we get...swell.


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#16815 - 02/28/04 07:51 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Forces [Re: Hydrax]
Shiboleth Offline


Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 113
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think my fellow countrymen need to lay off the US military as well and start laying in on our politicians to fund ours, but thats for another forum.
_________________________
this is a recording...

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#16816 - 02/28/04 11:19 PM Re: Some thoughts. [Re: Caesar]
sleepdirt Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 493
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:

I don't know who told you that, but you won't find that in any Army doctrine, whether you are right or wrong.




Different branch. I was in the US Navy and one of the classes that I was in during basic training we were told that by one of our instructors. Someone's got to keep those shipping lanes open!
_________________________
I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

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#16817 - 02/28/04 11:38 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
sleepdirt Offline
<B>CoS Member</B>

Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 493
Loc: Irvine, CA
Quote:

I really dislike the idea of going into the armed services. I personally would never do so.




Be thankful that you have a vagina, then. You're not required to register for Selective Service when you're 18 like us boys and, since all branches of the US Armed Forces are strictly volunteer (at this moment, anyway), you don't have to worry about being made to join.

Quote:

I don't worship veterans like everyone else seems to, because all they have shown themselves to be are people who can take orders very well. Fight for what you believe needs to be fought for, but I'm not going to feel indebted towards military people because they can put aside their own brains to just blindly follow orders.




Actually, when orders are given in wartime, they're usually given in an effort to save either your life or the lives of others. In peacetime, they're given because there are requirements that need to fulfilled for the functioning of either the unit you're stationed with or the whole service in general.

Following orders does not mean that you put aside your brain. (I can see putting their brains aside everyday when I see them walking in traffic when their vehicles have broken down. If they get run over by a speeding vehicle, good riddance! One less genetic defective.) An order is simply an instruction to get something done and in the military, just as in the civilian world, if you don't follow orders, you will lose your job. Remember that when you decide that you don't have to follow orders.
_________________________
I'm amazed with what I get away with at work...

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#16818 - 02/29/04 01:43 AM This issue in ink [Re: Nemo]
Anonymous
Unregistered



I have very little to add to this that has not been said already. However, do yourselves a favor and get in touch with The Trident magazine....the forthcoming issue is a Military theme.

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#16819 - 03/01/04 03:30 AM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
Moria Offline


Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 50
You need to look at the bigger picture here. The military isn't the Borg collective, wherein you lose your individual indentity to the greater whole. All armies and fighting forces are necessary for the security of any nation that wishes to remain one. And the necessity of any war is justifiably determined by whoever wins it. You might think it's more satanic to fuck everyone else over and only ever look out for your own ass, but without the protective shield of this country, you'd be easy prey for the truly satanic who've banded together in cooperation to ride you down as their enemy. Remember, the strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all. Our military folks aren't idiots, they're just doing a very respectable job. Point fingers at the politicians, whose very job it is to control the people.
_________________________
"Satanism has become a gravitational force. We know that it doesn't matter what you were before. Once you discover your Satanic persona, that's it. You knew it was lurking inside you. You just couldn't quite conceptualize it." - Anton Szandor LaVey

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#16820 - 03/02/04 01:20 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
PhyxOz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Kalamazoo, Michigan
I recently left active military service. I was in a Combat job (MOS 19D) and served in the gulf during all the non-sense. I Proudly wore Satanist on my dog tags everyday, regardless of all the shit i took for it. Like most things in life you get out of it what you put into it, you don't have to be mindless or even do what they say with out question. If you have any magical ability you will quickly figure out they are just people like everybody else and how to use it. Whether you like the idea of the military or not they really do give you the freedom you have to even be a satanist. I lost a few close friends to that sand covered dump, and it saddens me to think people take their freedoms (what little ones we really have) for granted without at least appreciating the sacrifice others make.

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#16821 - 03/02/04 01:31 PM Re: Satanism and the Armed Services
DavidP Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Arizona
I served my country for 8 years (US Army) and proudly proclaimed myself a satanist, even though at the time I was not a CoS member, I took all the bad looks and attitudes that were thrown my way, and gave em right back, in the form of doing my job, which at times wasn't pleasant, getting promoted faster than some, being recognized for performing above and beyond what was expected of me.

By the time I left the armed forces, many who looked upon my religion in distaste, looked upon the man who lived it with respect. Any person who lives their life by the tenets of Satanism, eventually gains much from it. In my opinion and experience, despite what the christian-right wings think.

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