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#175157 - 07/05/06 11:23 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Ares]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Why is it any concern to the Satanist, whether or not, drug-users, drunkards, and the mentally ill have a roof over there head? Is their not shelters for these people?

You asked, so I'll give a Satanic third-side answer.

It's not because THEY deserve good treatment, it's because we do.

Drunkards, druggies, poor people, and bums ruin the scenery, chew away at the infastructure, raise the crime rate, and lower the property values.

Certainly, I don't want hardcore schizophrenics running around as they please.

So, one potential solution (though I never said it was foolproof) is to raise their quality of life so that they don't continue to piss on society.

Of course, part of the problem there is that while some people will take a hand-up and use it well, others are so incompetent that they will propel themselves back into the gutter, and end up wasting tax dollars, charity, and hard work in the process, again and again.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#175158 - 07/05/06 11:46 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: TrojZyr]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
A friend of mine once went to one of those hand-out-free-clothes-at-the-soup-kitchen-on-xmas type things. As he was giving out the stuff, one of the whinos said he wanted to have his coat. My friend of course refused, saying it was his. The whino proceeded to throw a hissy-fit, the ungrateful fuck. That is one reason you will never catch me at a hand-out-free-clothes-at -the-soup-kitchen-on-xmas type thing.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#175159 - 07/05/06 08:42 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: HellofallHells]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
When it comes to soup kitches, apparently a lot of the work includes more than actually handing out the food to the homeless. I've read stories of some people volunteering with this task in mind, and are pissed when it turns out that they've been assigned to move crates around in the back room or some other job where they don't actually see the homeless people. Talk about a Good Guy Badge!

>>Zephirus
>>Banned

Those debating-for-the-sake-of-debating types do get on my nerves. I just hope they don't go all leave with the false sense of satisfaction that somehow they've "stumped" us, when they haven't.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
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#175160 - 07/05/06 08:52 PM A simple answer. [Re: Zephirus]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
In most if all cases, if one must ask 'am I to ___ to be a Satanist' or 'I agree with Satanic philosophy except _____', the answer is inevitable.
You are barking up the wrong tree. Satanists know they are Satanists.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#175161 - 07/05/06 09:17 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Svengali]
weles Offline


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Quote:

You are reading it incorrectly. The quoted passage was talking about general probability. Stratification is a natural process.



My point was that the general probability of success is relative to the metric. By picking a particular metric, one can get different clustering of ability in their results. There is ample evidence for this going all the way back to the work of Franz Boas, at least. If the statement I quoted previously is meant to be in agreement with that idea, I overlooked that element. I will reread the whole article from which it was quoted.

Quote:

When considering the role of Christianity in history, you have to consider who is was bad for, who it was good for, and why.



I understand quite a bit aboute the role of Christianity in history. I was using Christianity rather as an example of a dubious Western achievement which is promoted by academics regardless of its merits relative to other current thinking. It served its purpose for Westerners, as may have non-Western ideas which people find dubious replacements for Western ones in education, but now both may be of dubious value academically. For me, living right now, I don't care if an idea or aesthetic came from "the West" or not as a criteria for dubiousness, only whether or not it is interesting and/or useful to me.

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#175162 - 07/05/06 09:41 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Svengali]
weles Offline


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Quote:

You are assuming titles have no basis in merit.



I'm assuming that peoples' reactions to titles often confer upon them more merit than they may actually warrant, and that many titled officials encourage this response. This is based on my life experiences, though it is a bias I'm open to having proved not to be relevant to CoS.

Quote:

By that logic, why would you seek the consultation of an MD, or a Lawyer, or Professor? Since you somehow automatically are their equal.



Relative equal and absolute equal are different issues. An MD, Lawyer, or other professionaly may be my relative superiour in their field, and yes I would seek their consultation. But, what they then do with that consultation is relevant. When a professional offers me their advice or prescription, I do my own research about what they have said. By doing so, I have severed my relations with incompetent professionals and sought-out new relations with better ones. Merely their title was not enough to suggest I should just obey their advice and not take an active role in solving the issue for which I had consulted them. Even with a title, my respect is earned through interaction.

There are physicians, lawyers, etc. I have met (having worked on the technical staff of both a hospital and a law firm) whom I would consider to be my inferior, despite their reified title, as they were merely mediocre at their chosen profession and abysmal in everything else I knew about them. Other physicians and lawyers I worked with excelled in their fields, and were otherwise interesting. In them I recognized elite qualities. I excel in my
field, and many find me otherwise interesting as well. At these workplaces, I was able to work as a peer with the other professionals. They recognized my areas of expertise, and I theirs. As far as I am concerned, titular achievement is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for true merit.

A problem I have seen in other organizations, even ones of freethinkers and individualists, is an automatic deference to the titled leadership on all matters. I haven't been on these boards long enough to know the degree to which that happens here, but I am wary of it because many leaders encourage it.

Quote:

CoS titles are given in recognition of a) the individual's grasp of Satanism, and b) application of the same in their chosen field of endeavor. Quality control is a good thing. That "everyone is the equal" nonsense turns the world into shit.



On the issue of Satanism theory and practice, someone with a title obviously has more experience. I'm willing to conceed their expertise on the matter and give their ideas respect and commensruate consideration, but I for one will not bow before anyone or otherwise accept the idea they are absolute rathter than relative betters.


Quote:

Don't buy into egalitarian fallacies.



Egalitarian fundamentalism says everyone is absolutely equal. Though I do think anyone I encounter deserves an unprejudiced chance to prove their merit, I don't think everyone is ultimately equal. I do think that nobody is absolutely superior to *me*.

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#175163 - 07/05/06 09:55 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: SueW]
weles Offline


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Quote:

.
But, I feel, that it IS your loss if you donot advantage yourself of some of the knowledge and experiances that so many offer here freely.



I am quite happy to hear the words of knowledge and experience on any topic that interests me, and respect those who offer it. I am wary of titles, and don't easily give alliegiance even to titled masters, but I'm not an ingrate when someone with experience is willing to offer their perspective.

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#175164 - 07/05/06 10:01 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: weles]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

This is based on my life experiences, though it is a bias I'm open to having proved not to be relevant to CoS.




What would count as "proof"?
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reprobate

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#175165 - 07/05/06 10:36 PM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: reprobate]
weles Offline


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Quote:

What would count as "proof"?



My own observation of and experience with interactions here, modulo accounting as best I can for what Bill M has said about this board not being isomorphic with CoS as an organization. That combined with ongoing reading of all the public documents from CoS possible, to determine what titled officials seem to think their title confers upon them based on whatever I can learn of their actions as a nonmember (mostly through their writings).

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#175166 - 07/06/06 09:21 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Bill_M]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Quote:

Those debating-for-the-sake-of-debating types do get on my nerves. I just hope they don't go all leave with the false sense of satisfaction that somehow they've "stumped" us, when they haven't.




Of course they do. It is that same pretentiousness that fuels their need to debate that makes it so. Most stupid people don't see their own stupidity and that makes them the stupidest of all.
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#175167 - 07/14/06 12:50 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Zephirus]
Foxy_Ramirez Offline


Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I would say, because the perceptions of good and bad are different varying from each individual, I think that if it makes you sleep better at night and feel good and happy about yourself, You're in the green.

As far as magic and ritual go, it is not necessary to your existance. After all, there are many people who get by day in, day out, making good money who don't need magic. In my opinion, the act of ritual itself is a waste of energy. Obviously many other magic practicing religions may create effects, but within the science of it all, as it is something to affect your will in order to enact a change within yourself, so why is a certain breed of magic better than the other? Why not simply skip the ritual and enact the change with simply your will, if it is to be an internal change, and if it is to deal with something like money or love, just do what you feel is right (In your own personal sense, of course.).
_________________________
"There is a beast in man that should be exercised, not exorcised." ~ Anton Szandor LaVey

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#175168 - 07/14/06 01:03 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

the act of ritual itself is a waste of energy




Poor Anton LaVey...So many years of study for only a waste of energy... ?? Well, as you said it is only your opinion. But I don't go against your choice of course.

Quote:

so why is a certain breed of magic better than the other?




There is one life/nature/energy/electricity/reality/magic


Edited by Assabrah (07/14/06 01:16 AM)
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#175169 - 07/14/06 01:38 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Foxy_Ramirez]
WolfMoon Offline


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 735
Quote:

In my opinion, the act of ritual itself is a waste of energy.




How would it be a waste of energy if that energy is put into something you desire to take place? If that desire manifests into reality, I would not consider that a waste in the least. Ritual and magic are a very important part of Satanism. As LaVey himself said, "Humanism is not a religion, without ritual and dogma". There is a big distinction between Satanism and humanism. It is magic.

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#175170 - 07/14/06 08:56 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Bill_M]
ThaDeej Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 241
Loc: Greenville, SC
Quote:

Even if we disregard the whole concept of Greater Magic, just for the sake of the argument here, it's clear that humans have always made use of ritualized expression, whether for religious or secular means. There is no "scientific" reason why we should watch a descending sphere on January 31st, shoot 21 guns into the air at certain events, or use our breath to extinguish flaming sticks on the anniversary of our date of birth. But there are reasons why we humans do these things, and it's not just for "tradition". Likewise, as the Satanic Bible mentions, Satanism recognizes both the science of psychology and the benefits of emotionalizing through ritual and dogma.




FANTASTIC!! I love the analogies you've given here, very well put! HS!
_________________________
"Good and Evil liveth only in men's minds," Ragnar Redbeard

www.vampiretemple.com

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#175171 - 07/14/06 10:18 AM Re: Am I too compassionate to be a Satanist? [Re: Zephirus]
Ricochet_Rabbit Offline


Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Minnesota
Quote:

I'm just not into that stuff, and never will be under any cirumstances. I am a man of science, period. If this disqualifies me as a Satanist, so be it




I think the "never under any circumstances" part disqualifies you as a man of science, not as a satanist.
_________________________
"The truth is, as every one knows, that the great artists of the world are never Puritans, and seldom even ordinarily respectable. No virtuous man- that is, virtuous in the Y.M.C.A. sense- has ever painted a picture worth looking at, or written a symphony worth hearing, or a book worth reading, and it is highly improbable that the thing has ever been done by a virtuous woman." ..........H.L. Mencken " mmmmmm... sacreligious" - Homer J. Simson

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