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#175880 - 07/06/06 10:37 PM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: TrojZyr]
Tiberia Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 894
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Quote:

Most people don't let me overtly sniff them anyway, so that interferes with my ability to take a poll on how people smell.




I have to say that the smelliest people I have come across was the pair of enormous sweaty wiccans that we once had as neighbors. They ate everything that is bad for you including vast amounts of processed meats, plus they didn't use soap, anti-perspirant, or laundry detergent, because they considered them bad for the environment. When in fact it was their horrendous body odor that was bad for the environment. BLECH!

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#175881 - 07/06/06 11:08 PM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: Discipline]
Dark_Adept Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 884
Loc: High Hades
Quote:

I have lived in the US most of my life and I have never seen anything like that. Racism is not as popular as you may think in the US.




I agree. Perhaps in the 80s there was more of a racial tension as progressive changes were developing among the younger generation (including me). The 90s brought Vanilla Ice to every Casper Milquetoast's living room to the terror of guilty white liberal parents and conservative uptight parents alike. Pants got looser, underwear was worn in full view as high as the belly button and standard english took a dive among every white kid I grew up with and then some. I guess MTV might be somewhat to blame for that. But racism I feel has evolved into the elusive higher eschalons of political society rather than the common meth lab, Klan infested deserts of California, mountains and ranches of Montana or Texas and the deep south. It's more implicit now, at least from my experiences.
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#175882 - 07/06/06 11:18 PM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Dak]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

The stereotypes associated with certain peoples have some origin that many accepted and passed on. Is there truth behind them?




Yes, there is. There are however, exceptions to every rule. According to statistics, levels of intelligence and certain behaviors are genetic.

It is said that:

Asians have the largest brain size, whites intermediate and Blacks the smallest. (this is being debated by recent studies)
Blacks are more violent, Whites intermediate and Asians least violent.
Blacks have a high sex drive, whites intermediate and Asians the least.
Blacks are more fertile, Whites intermediate and Asians least fertile.

When it comes to IQ scores, Asians and Jews are at the top, then Whites and Latinos, with Black Americans scoring the lowest- Africans at the very bottom. An IQ of 70 is considered retarded but it is the common IQ score among Africans.

Source

Race and Intelligence
Average Gaps among Races

Topics like this can often bring up a can of worms. Some may get offended no matter if the proof is there, others will use it to support their extreme racist beliefs. What's important to realize is that there are exceptions to everything in nature - even if majority rules. There are some very intelligent Blacks that are superior to Whites, there are some Asians that have a better chance at getting pregnant than a Black person, etc. Every individual is different- judge them accordingly, not as a whole.

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#175883 - 07/06/06 11:21 PM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Carkosa]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

According to statistics, levels of intelligence and certain behaviors are genetic.




Get a good text-book on statistics, and read it.

Statistics may be correlated to race. They NEVER prove causation.

Are you telling me it's not conceivable that cultural, nutritional, or political factors might result in Africans scoring low on IQ tests?


Edited by reprobate (07/06/06 11:23 PM)
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#175884 - 07/06/06 11:34 PM Re: Stereotypes [Re: reprobate]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

Are you telling me it's not conceivable that cultural, nutritional, or political factors might result in Africans scoring low on IQ tests?




That is very possible and still in debate. Studies have been done on African children in many countries around world, who were adopted as babies by white middle class parents and the IQ results were still consistant. These are not my opinions...just statistics.


Edited by Carkosa (07/06/06 11:37 PM)

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#175885 - 07/06/06 11:55 PM Re: Stereotypes [Re: reprobate]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
Are you telling me it's not conceivable that cultural, nutritional, or political factors might result in Africans scoring low on IQ tests?

The fact that something does affect this is proven by the mere fact that blacks in America do better than blacks in Africa. The fact that blacks in America do worse that whites, Jews, Asians, and Hispanics in America suggests that it may also have a genetic cause.

Were it a single set of statistics, I would say that no conclusion could be drawn. Given the fact that this is multiple sets of statistics (worldwide by race, intranational by race, etc) and the results are the same across the board, even in the presence of drastically different economic, cultural, and nutritional climates, suggests that something other than these has some impact, even if these factors also have an impact.

None of this suggests that a black person can't have a high IQ, merely that they perhaps occur in lesser frequency, and as an aggregate do not match up.
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#175886 - 07/07/06 12:10 AM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Carkosa]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
Asians have the largest brain size, whites intermediate and Blacks the smallest.

According to the very old literature I've read directly concerning this, it would seem that these stats have validity but are also high variable within these "races" depending on subpopulation. For example, it was found that the average volume of the cranial cavity could vary considerably between Mandarins and Tunguska, Japanese and Mongols. The same variance was also true of statistics for stature, anthropometrics, etc. Regardless, the trends did favor overall differences by continent in all these statistics.

Blacks are more violent, Whites intermediate and Asians least violent.

I've never seen this statistically illustrated. I have a difficult time imagining how one measures "violence." Perhaps crime statistics, frequency and fatality of wars, etc, but to do anything comprensive like this would be the statistical job of a lifetime.

Blacks have a high sex drive, whites intermediate and Asians the least.
Blacks are more fertile, Whites intermediate and Asians least fertile.


The first seems likewise hard to measure. The second would be easy to measure, but difficult to prove causation since it is very well known that environmental factors strongly influence fertility. I won't say it's not possible though.

The IQ differences are the most studied, and although that would tend to be a much more controversial stance than differences in stature (although some people even contest this, for reasons unknown; is racial superiority a matter of height?), it is one of the best supported regardless of causation.

Amusing facts to reconcile: if poor nutrition and strife were to be blamed for low IQ scores in Africans, why would Africans have such a demonstrably high stature, when the high IQ scoring Asians have low stature (lack of nutrition is known to cause low stature in individuals)? If cultural factors were to blame, then why do South American and Polynesian tribesmen, or Eskimos, no more advanced than African tribesmen, score higher on IQ tests than Africans? Cultural strife should suggest that Jews would do poorly, but they do the best of anyone.

Of course, all this is averages. I know whites who are not fit to lick the boots of intelligent blacks, and a person I've worked with who was born in Kenya is a dozen times more intelligent than the very stupid whites he has worked right alongside. I find racism to be a stupid idea on the principle that it is herdlike lumping of individuals into groups, but the fact is that ethnology is a lost science that may hold some valuable clues to the origins of mankind, ignored entirely due to political reasons.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#175887 - 07/07/06 12:29 AM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: AlricTarrant]
False_Messiah78 Offline
Banned

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: New York State
Thank you, that was an interesting read - however as the data set is from self-proclaimed "hate crime" victims I must take it with a grain of salt ... make that two grains.
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#175888 - 07/07/06 12:38 AM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: x9x]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
The rate of violent crime in the UK is presently double that of the US.

The popular conception that the US is a violent country is bunk.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#175889 - 07/07/06 12:46 AM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Carkosa Offline


Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
Quote:

Blacks are more violent, Whites intermediate and Asians least violent.

I've never seen this statistically illustrated. I have a difficult time imagining how one measures "violence." Perhaps crime statistics, frequency and fatality of wars, etc, but to do anything comprensive like this would be the statistical job of a lifetime.




I'm certain they are going by crime statistics. I don't recall if these statistics were world wide or limited to the United States. I'll find out.


Quote:

Blacks have a high sex drive, whites intermediate and Asians the least.
Blacks are more fertile, Whites intermediate and Asians least fertile.


The first seems likewise hard to measure.





These studies are based on hormonal levels of testosterone. It turns out blacks tend to have a higher level.


Quote:

The second would be easy to measure, but difficult to prove causation since it is very well known that environmental factors strongly influence fertility. I won't say it's not possible though.




True. If Asians are least fertile how does that explain the over-population in China?


Quote:

Amusing facts to reconcile: if poor nutrition and strife were to be blamed for low IQ scores in Africans, why would Africans have such a demonstrably high stature, when the high IQ scoring Asians have low stature (lack of nutrition is known to cause low stature in individuals)? If cultural factors were to blame, then why do South American and Polynesian tribesmen, or Eskimos, no more advanced than African tribesmen, score higher on IQ tests than Africans? Cultural strife should suggest that Jews would do poorly, but they do the best of anyone.





Excellent points. I've always wondered those things myself. Which makes me lean more to the fact that alot of this all may be genetic.

Quote:

Of course, all this is averages. I know whites who are not fit to lick the boots of intelligent blacks, and a person I've worked with who was born in Kenya is a dozen times more intelligent than the very stupid whites he has worked right alongside. I find racism to be a stupid idea on the principle that it is herdlike lumping of individuals into groups, but the fact is that ethnology is a lost science that may hold some valuable clues to the origins of mankind, ignored entirely due to political reasons.




Exactly.

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#175890 - 07/07/06 01:21 AM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Carkosa]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10123
These studies are based on hormonal levels of testosterone. It turns out blacks tend to have a higher level.

If this were true, and could be demonstrated to have a genetic cause, it would be a very enlightening fact.

Testosterone levels have been demonstrably correlated with aggression (positive correlation) and lifespan (negative correlation). I don't know enough to speak on the effect of testosterone on fertility (logic tells me that too much testosterone would reduce fertility if anything, but slighlty raised levels could possibly enhance fertility).

To prove a racial, genetic difference in testosterone levels would be a revelation.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#175891 - 07/07/06 01:31 AM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: x9x]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
In the USA, people have "God Bless America" stickers on cars, stores, houses. People fly American flags from their homes, cars, etc...

What would happen if I lived in Europe and wore my country's flag on everything?

Yes, the US is different from where you live. We have jokes about West Virginians, Californians and Texans. Everywhere on the planet you go, people give other people shit. There is a big difference between laughing things off and declaring fatwahs. If an asshole provokes someone and gets what they ask for, regardless of color or religion, they brought it on themselves. Usually.

I have posted my views on Islam in the appropriate forum. This being a publicly viewed forum, I'll hold my tongue but I'll leave you with a joke.

Hitler was preparing to invade through Belgium and France. March 1940; there was a meeting on one town where a few hundred men showed up with orders to prepare to battle.

There was, however, nothing but arguing in the town square. So much so that the Comandant had trouble getting every one's attention. He raised his bullhorn and shouted into it:

"What the hell is wrong with you men? Our beloved country is in jeopardy and all you want to do is fight amongst yourselves!?!"

One man shouted:

"I'm not fighting alongside those Flemmish cheese-sniffers!!"

Another man says:

"HEY!! I'm not going anywhere near those Walloon schapenneukers!!!"

And the whole crowd started arguing again.

The Commandant finally managed to quiet the crowd down. He boomed:

"We need to defend our wonderful nation! All the Wallons unwilling to do so go to the north side of the square! All the Flemmish unwilling to defend our nation alongside their countrymen get to the south side of the square!"

After 15 minutes the crowd was seperated and only one man was left in the middle of the square.

The Commandant was shocked.

"Are you prepared to fight for your country?"

"Yes sir!", said the lone man.

Are you prepared to fight along side your fellow countrymen?"

"Yes sir!", said the lone man.

"Are you prepared to die to defend our precious land?" asked the Commandant.

"Yes sir!", said the lone man.

"What is your name, Soldier?"

"Herschel Weinberg, reporting for duty SIR!"
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#175892 - 07/07/06 01:59 AM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: RandomStranger]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Excellent joke!!
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#175893 - 07/07/06 03:31 AM Re: Stereotypes [Re: Carkosa]
weles Offline


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 26
Loc: California
Quote:


Source

Race and Intelligence
Average Gaps among Races




The correlation vs. causation caveat was already mentioned.

These sources fail to mention, when discussing IQ, what exactly they are referring to. Are all these studies using a single test? Are they using localized tests which are considered normalized against each other? How do they normalize for environmental diffferences (such as class) when making their subject selections?

I'm not sure how to begin analyzing these results, given those issues.

One point I will make regarding genetics overall. Environmental factors play a substantial role, especially in group selection. Humans muck around in our environment sufficiently that socioeconomic factors most likely play a role in group selection since such factors impact mate selection criteria, nutrition, survival rate, etc. For example, if a group is conquered, their best and brightest are killed, and then they are ghettoized, I suspect their overall genetic quality will decline. I'd like to see a formal study refuting or concurring with my hypotheses regarding socioeconomic interference in group selection in human subgroups, but I haven't, and I don't currently have the resources to conduct one.

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#175894 - 07/07/06 03:36 AM Re: Guilty of being white- thoughts on racism [Re: x9x]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

Excellent joke!!




The funny thing is, it probably really happened. Many people have trouble with the issue of sorting out who the real enemies are.
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