#18197 - 12/25/03 12:04 AM
Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, it is one minute after midnight on Xmas, so I wanted to be the first to wish everyone a Merry Indulgence Day. 
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#18198 - 12/25/03 12:25 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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Wait, we on the west coast still have 1:40 minutes till Christmas.
Well, I guess since it is already Christmas for you.
Merry Christmas.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#18201 - 12/25/03 02:04 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 21
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May your egos have been satisfied with the gifts you gave, the time spent with loved ones fulfilling, and most of all, may your indulgences have been plentiful on this day  -D32
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#18205 - 12/25/03 07:52 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Merry Merry Indulgence Day to you all!!!
I got the *best* present on the Earth last night - and i am still euphoric now 12 hours later!!!!
HS!
Patricia
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#18206 - 12/25/03 08:05 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Merry fucking x-mas to you as well. Every day is an Indulgence day by the way... or night... as your schedules goes... if there is one day of the year to be labeled as THE however, let's please not make it one of x-tian relation, unless a point would be made for it to be intentionally blasphemous, please, thanks! 
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#18207 - 12/25/03 08:38 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 179
Loc: United Kingdom
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Merry Christmas everyone! I just get the feeling that this is going to be a fun one. I've been awake for all 14 hours 37 minutes of it, and it's all been good stuff so far!
_________________________
"The book of old testament crippled and black
Satan his weapon is lust
As for the knowledge of god they had claimed
Religion's still burning inside"
Montségur - Iron Maiden
Hail Satan!
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#18208 - 12/25/03 08:55 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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CoS Member
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 1556
Loc: KNOXVILLE, Tennessee, (THE BLA...
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Christmas has never been anything but pain to me and this one tops them all. I just got a call, my granddaughter is in the hospital in Miami having heart surgery, my wife left me last night and my hand is fucked up from my own stupid anger at it all. Merry fucking xmas DrkMasterPrince
_________________________
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
"The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity"
HAIL SATAN
HAIL ANTON LAVEY
HAIL ME
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#18209 - 12/25/03 09:07 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 296
Loc: Alsace ( FRANCE )
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MERRY Xmas from france See the french surréalist poster  Translation: It was born, the divine child
_________________________
" There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written.
That is all. " Oscar Wilde
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#18210 - 12/25/03 09:10 AM
Re: It was born, the divine child
[Re: Satanarchiste]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That, dear Sir, is wonderful.
Cheers to you !!!
Patti
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#18212 - 12/25/03 11:54 AM
Re: What I like about Xmas...
[Re: Jack_Bauer]
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Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 179
Loc: United Kingdom
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I would like Christmas a lot if I got presents like that.
Sadly, I just got the news that my anorexic friend had a heart attack. Well, the first 18 hours of Christmas weren't too bad, I suppose. Just losing a friend isn't too fun.
_________________________
"The book of old testament crippled and black
Satan his weapon is lust
As for the knowledge of god they had claimed
Religion's still burning inside"
Montségur - Iron Maiden
Hail Satan!
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#18213 - 12/25/03 12:26 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Prince_Satanicus]
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CoS Member
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 1591
Loc: East Midlands UK
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I was sorry to read about your grandaughter and I hope she gets well soon. Is the split with your wife permanent or is it just one of those spats that when you both cool down you will be back together?
As for Xmas they could cancel it tomorrow and I wouldn't miss it. After all what is it to us? An excuse to get drunk eat too much and give and receive presents. Well we can do that any day of the year.
This year we have as a family decided to celebrate Walpurgis Night. As this is not on the commercial rollercoaster of tacky over sentimental drivel; we wil be making home made cards, decorations and of course developing our own unique, set of traditions.
_________________________
Support bacteria it's the only culture some people have.
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#18215 - 12/25/03 01:59 PM
Re: What I like about Xmas
[Re: Sammael]
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Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Rum and eggnog....
Drunk on xmas eve...
That describes well my xmas eve.
All good but for some asparin now!
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein
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#18216 - 12/25/03 02:03 PM
Re: What I like about Xmas
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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someone has a thick head now (so to speak) *hands the Tylenol to her pal Dan_Dread* Hail Santa! patti
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#18217 - 12/25/03 04:45 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 1217
Loc: England
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#18219 - 12/25/03 06:55 PM
Re: What I like about Xmas...
[Re: Chaostar]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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....of course all the nice presents 
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#18220 - 12/25/03 06:59 PM
Re: What I like about Xmas...
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Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 179
Loc: United Kingdom
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Well I'm going to see someone nice tomorrow, she may have a 'present' for me  .
_________________________
"The book of old testament crippled and black
Satan his weapon is lust
As for the knowledge of god they had claimed
Religion's still burning inside"
Montségur - Iron Maiden
Hail Satan!
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#18223 - 12/25/03 08:58 PM
Re: Gaude Saturnalia
[Re: Caesar]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
That's what I'm talking about!
Ah, the good old days...
you just don't want anyone stealing your toys 
*runs and steals all of CaesarsSoldier's toys*
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#18224 - 12/25/03 09:14 PM
Re: What I like about Xmas...
[Re: Jack_Bauer]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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Wow, that is a nice present.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#18225 - 12/25/03 09:40 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 95
Loc: (WITHIN)
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Filet minion, red wine, $$$, and everything else I want this was a day I could not ruin for others at the same time it is the one I can not stop indulging in with full knowledge of the subject of course. It was just too juicy! MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS
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#18226 - 12/25/03 11:55 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Indulgence, the order of the day. Lets see, steak, ala rare, bottle of Bully Hills Love My Goat Red Wine, a little frump in the bed, ahhmm, eating chocolate covered cherries, and just being damn lazy the entire day. Oh Happy Joy Joy Unto Me..
Eternally,
NyteChilde
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#18227 - 12/26/03 12:35 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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I don't understand the idea of Satanist wishing one another merry Christmas in any form (indulgence day, whatever other name).
The commonest explanation for this weird practice is "there is no bad opportunity for party and presents" and I find this to be perfectly valid reasoning - of a child.
However, if one claims the ability to define herself/himself (as a Satanist in this case), it should include a certain level of maturity. The wise ones choose their battles - and their parties too , I might add.
I believe there's been a topic on total environments here some time ago - and I find it odd that those who claim to be creators of their own reality so readily participate in practice of those they so gladly cathegorise as " herd" any other day of the year.
Now I am new around here (but not new to Satanism at all) and it's quite possible this may come across to some of you as somewhat "unholier then thou" attitude - and so be it. The thing is, I understand that the younger Satanists, those who still live and/or depend upon their parents in some way have to participate in "driving home for Christmas" mood. I don't sit bitterly as the "world" celebrates; I have kindly thanked for the cards and wishes I received from those who don't know me well, and that was about it. The ability to steal a perfectly good day away from the flow of the world, to have in unaffected by the multitude and their customs on days they are so everpresent like Christmas, is truly the taste of triumph.
Anton S. LaVey once wrote of the money losing it's worth. And when Satanist use their medium (this messageboard), where they are free to create the exact world they want to, to congratulate each others Christmas, it comes awfully close to something quite similar: words losing their meaning.
Hail Satan!
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#18228 - 12/26/03 12:58 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
The commonest explanation for this weird practice is "there is no bad opportunity for party and presents" and I find this to be perfectly valid reasoning - of a child.
What wisdom cometh from the mouths of babes.
Christmas was a party season long before Christianity came to Europe. Yule and Saturnalia are two names for the solstice celebration, the renewal of the flame of life in the time of darkest nights. In order to recruit pagan converts, who were loathe to give up their existent feast-days, Christians had to schedule Christmas to coincide with these holidays. This is relatively common knowledge among those with any interest in the origins of holidays; it's the reason Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas on any specific day. Jesus was probably born sometime in spring or summer.
In short, Christians co-opted Christmas. Ain't no reason that can't work both ways.
Edited by reprobate (12/26/03 12:59 PM)
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reprobate
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#18229 - 12/26/03 01:29 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: reprobate]
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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I am perfectly aware of the origin of Christmas, as the matter of fact the origin of each of Christain holidays. However, it doesn't have much to do with what I have written. The sign of cross had different meaning prior of Christianity too, so did the swastika before the WWII. But do they bear that meaning in the world today? The basis of coherent conversation is the fact that one accepts the meaning of terms they use - and when I say Christmas I mean what 25th of December means today.
Anyway, judging by what I have read, I seriously doubt that any of posters replying to this topic had a real Yuletide celebration (though I know one who has, and I congratulate him wholeheartedly).
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#18231 - 12/26/03 02:32 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Member
Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 1477
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The commonest explanation for this weird practice is "there is no bad opportunity for party and presents" and I find this to be perfectly valid reasoning - of a child.
How is it immature to want presents and parties?
However, if one claims the ability to define herself/himself (as a Satanist in this case), it should include a certain level of maturity. The wise ones choose their battles - and their parties too , I might add.
No one was dragged into this thread. The posters who have chosen to reply have done so out of their own volition. They have chosen their party.
I believe there's been a topic on total environments here some time ago - and I find it odd that those who claim to be creators of their own reality so readily participate in practice of those they so gladly cathegorise as " herd" any other day of the year.
It makes perfect sense. A Satanist who has the freedom to create his environment has the ability to escape the herd as well as join it when it benefits him. No Satanist would stay away from anything he enjoys just because the herd enjoys it as well.
Perhaps you have the impression that everyone in LttD is greeting each other a merry Christmas. This is not true. There are some who have openly expressed their dislike of Christmas, and many others who are not celebrating this holiday and have stayed silent about it.
Do not make assumptions on what LttD members have actually done this season.
_________________________
"Civilization is the precarious labor and luxury of a minority; the basic masses of mankind hardly change from millennium to millennium." - Will Durant ToV
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#18232 - 12/26/03 05:21 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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So let me get this straight.
You reject the celebration of Xmas simply because the 'herd' at large does it?
Careful, I think your baby is going down the drain.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein
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#18233 - 12/26/03 08:46 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I don't understand the idea of Satanist wishing one another merry Christmas in any form
Maybe some Satanists find it fun and amusing. It certainly tickles my pink. While I personally dislike the idea of christmas season, I have no problem telling someone else Merry Christmas. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I can't tell someone else who does to enjoy it and wish them well.
Quote:
"there is no bad opportunity for party and presents" and I find this to be perfectly valid reasoning - of a child.
And what is wrong with the reasoning of a child? It often times makes more sense than the reasoning of "mature adults". Besides if one enjoys parties and presents, why should one abstain from the opportunity?
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#18234 - 12/27/03 12:48 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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C'mon, lighten up! Christmas is a day of fun for many people regardless of their religion. I celebrate with my Christian family. That does not make me any less of a satanist. Sure, satanism is about indulgence, but lets also be a little realistic. The majority of people (myself included) have a job. I cannot indulge around-the-clock. I think I speak for many people when I say Christmas is one of the few days in the year when most people can really indulge because of the simple fact most people do not have to work or go to school that day. Anyway, regardless of how you feel about the Christmas holiday, I sincerely hope you had fun that day. BTW, I made it a point to make my post right after midnight just so I could be the first. That may have been a little immature; however I did amuse myself by doing this. I indulged in amusing myself by being a little immature, I think this little act was truly satanic on my part.
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#18235 - 12/27/03 01:23 AM
question
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Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Ok not to sound like an asshole...
But why do you capitalize 'Christmas' and 'Christian' in multiple instances, yet fail to capitalize 'satanism' or 'satanic', also in multiple instances?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein
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#18236 - 12/27/03 02:20 AM
Re: question
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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CoS Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
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You know. That really is a good question.
I catch myself doing that sometimes, too. Reflexive habits are hardest to break I guess.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell "“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla Are You One of Us? The Glorious Infernal Empire
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#18238 - 12/27/03 02:44 AM
Re: question
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Very good question, and I do not have a good answer, merely an excuse.
It is a habit developed from using the Associated Press Style form of writing. Capitalizing the words "Christian" and related words and using lowercase when using "satanism' is proper when put in the context of using any form of communication using mainstream mass media. Mass communications is one of my majors in college.
However, on this forum, such grammar is not really acceptable on this particular board. I admit I was wrong.
Anyway, I hope you had a merry Satanic christmas.
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#18239 - 12/27/03 02:52 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
I don't understand the idea of Satanist wishing one another merry Christmas in any form (indulgence day, whatever other name).
I agree. My line this year was "Happy Thursday!" I enjoy Dec. 25 as a day off, and an excuse to get a little drunk the night before. My holiday was monday night. Christmas is a slave holiday, and, as such, is beneath me.
Quote:
I find it odd that those who claim to be creators of their own reality so readily participate in practice of those they so gladly cathegorise as " herd" any other day of the year.
Agreed again. How can one reject Christianity, but still celebrate it's #1 holiday? I find that just as amusing as Christians who celebrate Halloween.
Quote:
The ability to steal a perfectly good day away from the flow of the world, to have in unaffected by the multitude and their customs on days they are so everpresent like Christmas, is truly the taste of triumph.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Yet another means of seperating one's self from the ignorant masses. Not having to deal with: large, frustrated shopping crowds, increased expenses, trying to return things you got two (or more) of, having to make sure that no one else was getting so and so the same thing you did...... A reward in its self.
But if any Satanist finds a reason TO celebrate Christmas..... Whatever floats your boat.
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#18240 - 12/27/03 05:05 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: reprobate]
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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Quote:
A holiday is not a symbol. It is not a term in a conversation. It does not need to have a conventional, agreed-upon meaning to be accepted or rejected.
Not in the same way as symbols I have mentioned (graphical
symbols), but it still bears a strong symbollical meaning nevertheless.
Christmas customs - all the shows of birth of Jesus in highschools theatres, the Morning star on Christmas tree, the gathering of families, are symbolical representatives of something that supposedly happened some 2000 years ago.
Christmas is a term in conversation - here and now. And if you were referring to Christmas as a holiday, and I was talking about my dog named Christmas, it would be hard to make sense of it all. Any term needs to have a very fixed meaning, otherwise different sides are talking of different things bearing the same names. Many misunderstanings arise from this practice.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#18241 - 12/27/03 05:11 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Sarracenia]
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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Quote:
How is it immature to want presents and parties?
A child doesn't care what occasion it is, as long as it gets presents - and that is wonderfully ok.
However, I expect somebody who is the centre of her/his own world to treat themselves with fine things they desire frequently - and they don't need to accept any given opportunity society indorces as present time - particulary when religious holidays
of Christianity are involved. I find it to be the matter of style, if nothing else.
Quote:
No one was dragged into this thread. The posters who have chosen to reply have done so out of their own volition. They have chosen their party.
I think it was quite clear from my post that I was referring to "party" as a social gathering of entertainment, or something along those lines.
Quote:
No Satanist would stay away from anything he enjoys just because the herd enjoys it as well.
I say that a Satanist in this situation could give it a though or two why s/he finds the same things enjoyable as the group of people s/he cathegorises as the other pole to.
Quote:
Perhaps you have the impression that everyone in LttD is greeting each other a merry Christmas. This is not true. There are some who have openly expressed their dislike of Christmas, and many others who are not celebrating this holiday and have stayed silent about it.
Do not make assumptions on what LttD members have actually done this season.
And perhaps (or maybe definitely ) I stated that I was adressing only those who have replied to the thread.
I have read a lot of interesting posts on this forum and if I considered people fools, I wouldn't have bothered posting at all.
I respect another's lair, though these "upper floors" are called "kennel" as much as I can see, so I suppose utmost courtesy is not a must.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#18246 - 12/27/03 05:47 PM
Assumption incorrect.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 4136
Loc: Oregon
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I respect another's lair, though these "upper floors" are called "kennel" as much as I can see, so I suppose utmost courtesy is not a must. Actually it is. It is only called a "kennel" because so many here refuse to behave, as you might put it, as "mature adults". The Church of Satan is a "mutual admiration society". Even members who disagree generally regard each other with a polite nod. However, newcomers and outsiders who would waste our time and muck up this fine resource are rightly treated with disdain.
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#18247 - 12/27/03 05:47 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Member
Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 319
Loc: B.C.
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Not in the same way as symbols I have mentioned (graphical
symbols), but it still bears a strong symbollical meaning nevertheless.
Christmas customs - all the shows of birth of Jesus in highschools theatres, the Morning star on Christmas tree, the gathering of families, are symbolical representatives of something that supposedly happened some 2000 years ago.
My slogan:
Leave Jesus at the alter this Christmas.
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#18249 - 12/27/03 11:35 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Don't be surprised if you're awakened at night by my whispering: "My prescious......"
Just as long as I don't find you in my bathtub singing, "The water's cool, it's nice and cool, so juicy sweeeeeeeeet!"
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#18250 - 12/27/03 11:43 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Christmas is a term in conversation - here and now. And if you were referring to Christmas as a holiday, and I was talking about my dog named Christmas, it would be hard to make sense of it all. Any term needs to have a very fixed meaning, otherwise different sides are talking of different things bearing the same names. Many misunderstanings arise from this practice.
Don't equivocate. You switched from talking about the semiotics of the holiday, to the semantic meaning of the word. A word is a term in a conversation, and needs to have conventional meaning in order for the conversation to take place. But a holiday is not a word, it is a custom and a set of practices; it has a different kind of meaning, one that does not need to have any reference to convention whatsoever, or which can have whatever reference to, reinterpretation of, or parody on convention that the practitioner likes.
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reprobate
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#18251 - 12/28/03 03:45 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11186
Loc: New England, USA
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Here's how I personally celebrate this holiday:
First of all, I celebrate "The Solstice", not "Christmas". And to the few people I meet who say "Merry Christmas" to me instead of "Happy Holidays", I immediately reply with "I'm not Christian, but thanks for the thought." It rightfully embarrasses them. Granted I'm doing the same kinds of secular things the church-goers are doing: receiving and giving gifts, drinking egg nog, getting together with relatives, etc. These things aren't Xtian, so I don't find rejection of these things to be Satanic per se. I know some will view this as a semantics argument, but I myself simply have a problem with celebrating a holiday with "Christ" in the title. And rewording it as "Xmas" doesn't work for me (though it makes for handy short-hand), because I know the "X" in that word really stands for "Xristos", the Greek word for "Christ". So, I just label all these secular holiday acts as "The Solstice".
When it comes to gift giving, I always place a MUCH bigger emphasis on birthdays, since (as I'm sure no Satanist here would argue) the date of one's birth is much more personal and significant than one particular international day of gift-giving. Still, I do buy and receive gifts around this time of year, usually just for my immediate family, whoever I'm dating, and a certain circle of friends. I'd rather be buying AND receiving than not having these traditions at all. It makes my life a lot more enjoyable. I'm happy to say that I make more money than I need, so buying a gold necklace for my mother or a Brookstone gadget for my father is no sweat. And I'm usually done with all my shopping before Dec 1st even rolls around, thereby separating myself from a lot of the holiday "madness" that happens.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M. http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers, New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures (Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)
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#18252 - 12/28/03 07:55 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Sammael]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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and an excuse to get a little drunk the night before. My holiday was monday night. Christmas is a slave holiday, and, as such, is beneath me.
It's only a slave holiday if you let it be. Who cares what the herd is doing. I enjoy it because my family and friends enjoy it. I don't have to get anyone a present if I don't want to. I usually do anyways but I like to give my gifts about two days after Christmas just to make it a little different.
Agreed again. How can one reject Christianity, but still celebrate it's #1 holiday? I find that just as amusing as Christians who celebrate Halloween.
Easily. I just don't pay attention to the Christain part of it. Just like watching a movies with a Christian theme. I just don't care. Just because I take part does not mean I will practice it in my life.
If I watch Taxi Driver does that mean I will go out and kill some pimps? No. It is a form of entertainment and so is Christmass.
People need to lighten up and enjoy life. Stop hating everything that you dislike. Life is more fun when you have a sense of humor.
But if any Satanist finds a reason TO celebrate Christmas..... Whatever floats your boat.
Well said.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#18253 - 12/28/03 07:58 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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No. I reject the celebration of Christmas because I am a Satanist.
Well, I accept the celebration of Christmas because I am a Satanist.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#18254 - 12/28/03 10:35 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Discipline]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Stop hating everything that you dislike.
I don't hate Christianity. I just find it to be beneath me. Along with all of its holidays. I choose to celebrate the original holidays.
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#18255 - 12/28/03 11:55 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Sammael]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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Like you said before, Sammael. Whatever floats your boat.
Good times.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#18258 - 12/29/03 05:14 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
However, I am pretty tired at the moment and English is a foreign language to me, so I suggest we postpone this argument for another time or thread.
Sure. Suffice it to say, my point is that a holiday, unlike a word, is what you make it. So, let's make it fun. What is your native language?
_________________________
reprobate
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#18259 - 12/30/03 07:52 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Member
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 1132
Loc: Nürnberg, Germany
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I agree with you.
Not only because I really do, but also because you are the only one who shares my opinion here, so you just became very precious to me
Sounds to me like somebody is desperately seeking the approval of others.
How sad is that?
What do you care if and in what shape a Satanist celebrates xmas?
Xmas has ceased to be a xtian holiday a long time ago. Any self-respecting xtian would deny this of course. However the reality of it is right in your face.
Take a look in your local WalMart a few days before the 25th.
People of every religious background are fighting for the last Bey-Blade toy for the youngsters.
My point:
There is a big difference in the traditional xtian celebration of xmas, and the capitalistic consumer-fest it has mutated into.
Sure, you could hide in your basement and just "bah - humbug" your way through it all.
OR, you could be truly Satanic about it and adapt. Twist and bend it to suit your needs. See it as the fest of indulgence that clever marketing has made it to be. No one says you have to exchange gifts with people you can't stand.
Use your imagination a little, that's what it's there for.
should you nonetheless decide to "bah-humbug" the whole thing...fine, that is your choice. Just quit knocking everyone else that wishes to indulge.
HS!
Markus
_________________________
 "A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. " ...Friedrich Nietzsche
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#18260 - 12/30/03 12:08 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: ochsenschaedel]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
you could be truly Satanic about it and adapt. Twist and bend it to suit your needs
I like the way you think  
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#18261 - 12/30/03 10:43 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Wow, I never expected this post to be a source of colorful discussion. I was really expecting a lot of good-will exchanges--maybe sharing a few christmas (lowercase intentional) stories. I didn't expect to offend anyone with this post. However, to those I offended, I thank you for your entertaining replies. That was quite the present you have given me.
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#18262 - 12/31/03 05:21 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: reprobate]
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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Quote:
Suffice it to say, my point is that a holiday, unlike a word, is what you make it. So, let's make it fun.
I understand your position, but will stick to mine: all the aspects of culture (holidays included) have semiotic value and all of its phenomena can function as signs, as elements in communication systems that follow certain semantic rules and laws that cannot be recognized in direct experience. .These signs are untransparent, and each of the meanings bears an ideological dimension.
And the results I came with after giving some thought to subjects similar to the one we discussed here are maybe best expressed with Nomen est omen.
I am sure you understand the implications of this, resulting in my choice to ignore Christmas.
Quote:
What is your native language?
Croatian.
Edited by Redhead (12/31/03 05:25 AM)
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#18265 - 12/31/03 07:32 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Member
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 1132
Loc: Nürnberg, Germany
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Ok, forget I ever tried. You understood nothing.
I'm not further wasting my time.
Goodbye.
_________________________
"A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. " ...Friedrich Nietzsche
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#18266 - 12/31/03 10:09 AM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
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Croatian is a beautiful language. I really wish I had the opportunity to learn it.
You talk as if you have some intellectual background. Is this accurate?
I know I said I'd let the matter drop, but your response was intriguing, and I'd like you to clarify a bit.
Quote:
elements in communication systems that follow certain semantic rules and laws
Are you a law-follower or a law-maker? 
Whom does a sign influence without being recognized?
What would happen if a Satanist were to enjoy his Winter Solstice in a "Christmassy" manner? It seems to me that there are two possibilities here as to what you have in mind.
On the one hand, perhaps you are afraid that he would come off as Christian to other people, who see him haivng a good time at Christmas. Is the participant beholden to a meaning defined by other people's expectations, rather than his own?
Or, on the other hand, perhaps you think that he will become more Christian himself by participating in "their" holiday. Do you think the semiotic influence is subconscious, especially pernicious since the practitioner is so oblivious to it? LaVey suggested that this was how curses work, so why not holidays?
(But then, couldn't it be suggested that Christmas is part of what makes Christianity less Christian? The Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to celebrate it for exactly this reason!)
_________________________
reprobate
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#18267 - 12/31/03 10:31 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Personally, I'm not offended by xmas trees, jingle bells, cookies and presents. Xmas has been a tradition in my family for ages. It's meaningful to me because family is important to me and I have such a joy on xmas day. I do not care what xmas means to Christians for I am not a Christian. I'm certainly not going to snub my nose at things I've always liked just because I'm a Satanist. I have a feeling that some people behave in this way. They go through life thinking "I CAN'T do this because I'm a Satanist"-even though they would really like to. Life ought to be fun. If you love xmas day, then celebrate it. If you want to think that such a celebration is contradictory to the satanic philosophy, then be sure to ask yourself about the contradictory nature of Christians celebrating this holiday which actually derives from pagan traditions. A Christian certainly wouldn’t celebrate xmas with pagan intentions-they have made it their own holiday-like I have!. Likewise, when a Satanist says "I love xmas" it does not mean that he worships baby Jesus. It does mean that he's not afraid to admit that he indulges in what brings him pleasure. Isn’t that the ultimate life-style of a Satanist? C’mon people, don’t let xmas scare you, it’s just the Solstice celebration by another name. *wink* Pagan Xmas Traditions
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#18268 - 01/01/04 12:01 AM
Its finally over!!!
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3954
Loc: The Deep South
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Christmas (or actually the time that goes from Halloween to New Years Eve) is a period of aesthetical torment for the senses. I detest Christmas, not because I'm a Satanist, but because of all the annoying crap that is forced into you. You can't just chose to ignore it. Everywhere you go it the ever-present jingle musak, repeated and repeated as an instrument of dementia-inducing torture. Everywhere you look there is a maddening overabundance of tacky kirsch ornaments... This year the monstrosity of fashion seems to be giant inflatable Santa Clauses whose slowly convulsive movements remind me those of a bloated corpse anchored to the bottom of the sea. I have even made a list of Jewish-owned stores and places so I least I can do some casual shopping without having my senses overflowed by the sound of carols and the sight red and green plastic grotesqueries. The "Christmas night" itself doesn't bother me. It's my choice of participating or not. And I usually chose to do, since I enjoy sharing food and drink with family and friends. Who cares if its some fictionals guy's brithday, as long as the food is good! But no holiday can compare with my favorite celebration of the year, the real birth of my God and savior! That’s March 30, of course, the day my mother ended the 9-month long process of frabricating ME!
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. Robert A. Heinlein
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#18269 - 01/01/04 12:40 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
C’mon people, don’t let xmas scare you, it’s just the Solstice celebration by another name. *wink*
Yes, and the solstice was on Dec. 22 this year. That was my holiday. Dec. 25 holds no meaning for me. I understand how some people can celebrate xmas without any religious overtones. But when your family has been known (on several occasions) to break out a birthday cake and sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus, it becomes quite contradictory to your nature.
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#18270 - 01/01/04 05:31 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Sammael]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Your family does THAT?  Birthday cake to Jesus??  Yikes, if anyone in my family did that the rest would fall on the floor in fits of laughter. Hmm, that's an idea for next year...*giggle*. Do they really do that? Ooo, there are so many ways you could turn that 'bad thing' into a 'fun thing'. Isn't it interesting how most religions have holidays surrounding the times of the equinoxes and solstices? Though some religions may not focus on the change in season as much as others do, it is not by accident that those holidays were placed at those times. The solstices and equinoxes are significant to many people.
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#18272 - 01/02/04 01:10 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: Redhead]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Sound to me like somebody (hint: you) fails to recognize a joke. Sammael, on the other hand, didn't and had replied in the same funny tone.
I almost replied to his statement (re: approval from others) saying, "I think he was joking, dude." I got it.....
I understand the rest of what he's saying, although I don't agree with it. Opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one. To each his own.....
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#18273 - 01/09/04 04:54 PM
Re: Merry Xmas.
[Re: reprobate]
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Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 203
Loc: Europe
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Quote:
Croatian is a beautiful language. I really wish I had the opportunity to learn it.
I am pleasantly suprised by the fact you're familiar with it (and agree with you). If you happen to drop by my part of the globe, drop me a line lesson-wise  .
Quote:
You talk as if you have some intellectual background. Is this accurate?
Yes. You give out the same impression. True?
Quote:
Are you a law-follower or a law-maker?
However strong I felt the urge to say "Law maker, of course!", I believe it would not be the most accurate description of the actual state I am in.
So let's see: in the world outside my window I am a law-follower. However ridiculous I might find a particular law, the state has a pretty good way of making sure that the option of breaking it have some really undesireable effects. But even in the privacy of my own home I am not as free as I'd like to be (neighbours) - until I move to a house on the hill, that is.
Now my next resort of possible law making is my mind - and again there I find the laws of proper thinking I need to apply if I want to communicate to others, and the laws of the psyche that, if one doesn't pay them a proper care/attention, can literally sabotage them.
Only in dreams can man be truly free said Shakespeare, but there again we stumble upon things we do not encounter because we chose to - but because the law of our nature gives that part of our lives to our subconsciousness.
Francis Bacon wrote that nature, in order to be commanded, has to be obeyed - and I believe this to be accurate for other realities too. Meaning, if we use language and its terms as signs to communicate, we need to use them in same way as they are generally used. So Satanist saying "I celebrate Christmass because I am a Satanist" reminds me of a member of original 1970s punk in Great Britain who suddenly added swastika to their pins and needles outfit, though politically supporting the exact opposite political option - both are meaningless in their expressions.
Quote:
Whom does a sign influence without being recognized?
Each of us, as we are all involved in collective conciousness.
Quote:
On the one hand, perhaps you are afraid that he would come off as Christian to other people, who see him haivng a good time at Christmas. Is the participant beholden to a meaning defined by other people's expectations, rather than his own?
No. I was even invited to a special audience to archbishop's for my "altruistic" work and I am sure I was considered a good Christian by all involved - but that's another story altogether.
Quote:
Do you think the semiotic influence is subconscious, especially pernicious since the practitioner is so oblivious to it? LaVey suggested that this was how curses work, so why not holidays?
Yes! But that's a wide area and would take us totally off topic.
Quote:
(But then, couldn't it be suggested that Christmas is part of what makes Christianity less Christian? The Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to celebrate it for exactly this reason!)
I don't think so. The main characteristic of Christianity as I see it is the sheepishness, the choice of following, of obeying another's suggestions. That's why in my response to ochsenshaedel I said there is not much difference whether Christmas lost its original meaning or not: the billion dollar machinery is no better master of puppets then good old JHVH.
The most commonly used argument "pro X" is (apart the one I just mentioned above) " my family always celebrated Christmas ". I believe that in my initial post in this thread I made a disctinction between younger Satanists who live (and depend upon) their parents, and adult Satanists. Now while one still lives with their primary family, that argument is ok. However, I don't understand the weight the term "family" has to self-determinded adults, who by that time probably have a partner and a circle of friends, both cathegories of whom they have personally chosen. I find it important that in this period of life one starts making their own traditions, special days and so. Unlike the average person who will (particulary on Christmas and Easter) happily regress into childhood life, while life was still something big and promising, and forget all about the dull reality it became as if they had nothing to do with it, I will celebrate occasions for I have chosen to - no other reason is good enough.
So those days when everybody is more or less voluntarily caught up in the proper mood, I choose to spend it different.
Whosoever is delighted in solitude is either a wild beast or a god - and being both I enjoy these moments I can truly separate from the current of the mindless world -without even walking away.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
If there were a verb meaning "to believe falsely," it would not have any significant first person, present indicative. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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*sigh*
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