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#186757 - 09/06/06 08:24 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Yinta Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Netherlands
I recoll an interview with Steve Irwin where he made an announcement of the documentary he wanted to make about stingray barbs.
The reporter asked him if it was dangerous. He answered that the risks where very low. He only knew one accident where a guy got stinged in the hart.

Ironically when you think about it.
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sincerely ,


Yinta

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#186758 - 09/06/06 11:04 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
I'm riding the fence on this one. I applaud the passion and courage Irwin displayed and firmly believe that his impact conservation-wise was good.

I also agree with Magister Svengali's application of the Rules of the Earth when he reminds us "When in another's lair...."

But here is the thing---the man voluntarily had 2 children who counted on him. He choose to bring human lives into this world with the tacit understanding that he'd be there for them.

The risks he took implies that those children were less important to him than his ideals. I don't think that is okay. In fact, I consider him exactly the same as a drug user in terms of parenting. Parents can do heroin for years and not OD, and then BAM! Irwin played the same game of Russian Roulette, and two kids will forever wonder why the weren't importatnt enough for their father to reduce his risky activities.

Anyway, my 11 year old has been crying for 2 days over this and I couldn't help but imagine how Irwin's 8 year old was dealing.

Y~
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Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#186759 - 09/06/06 12:29 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Ygraine]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10555
Loc: England
>> But here is the thing---the man voluntarily had 2 children who counted on him. <<

As I pointed out downstairs there were also two moronic episodes from him. Once where he fed a crocodile whilst holding his baby in the other hand and another occasion when he dangled the child over an alligator pen.

>> The risks he took implies that those children were less important to him than his ideals <<

The above would also suggest he placed TV ratings above their wellbeing.
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#186760 - 09/06/06 01:52 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Yinta Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:


SOURCE

From News.com.au
=======================================

One report today said his American-born wife Terri was trekking on Cradle Mountain in Tasmania at the time of the tragedy.

Police in Tasmania said they had made contact with her and have passed on the news of her husband's death.




These lines make me wonder, how often did there children see them, together as parents....
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Yinta

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#186761 - 09/06/06 05:21 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
This makes me a bit sad. He did more for animals than most would even consider doing. For that and for his love for animals I have always had a certain measure of respect for the man. Sure, there was a bit of showmanship to what he did, but Satanists should understand the importance of that more than most. Funny how some seem to miss that.

There have been a total of 17 deaths from stingrays reported worldwide. The risk was very low. To say that it is his own fault is like blaming the person for being killed in a car wreck on the way to work saying "Well you should know the roads are dangerous. Itís your fault for leaving the house". It was just an unfortunate accident. It really doesnít have to turn into a blame game. Thereís no need to pigeon hole it.

Like him or hate him, he had an impact on our world. The response around the globe is evidence enough of that. He went out doing what he loved. That in itself is rare.
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#186762 - 09/06/06 05:36 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
CWH Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 3746
Damn.

All that time messing around with crocs, snakes, and other animals that should have killed him and he gets it from a stingray.

Hmmmm......

Until now, I had never heard of someone getting killed by a stingray.

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#186763 - 09/06/06 08:18 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Ygraine]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Quote:

"When in another's lair...."




I think that this needs to be extended upon. To use half the quote does not do it justice.

When in anotherís lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

Is not conservation and building the passion for it to be considered respect? Irwin was always aware that he could meet his demise whilst working with animals, but pressed forward in the interest of conservation.

This brings me to the second point you have made.

Quote:

The risks he took implies that those children were less important to him than his ideals.




Any footage shows how close he was with his family. Then I ask, what of those within the Military who have family. Is their active duty to be considered putting family second to their ideals? What if it is no longer an ideal, but purely work?

Steve was very close with his family Priestess, I would go as far as saying he was a role model as to how many fathers should be.

Irwin's last interview was focussed on his children. "The sun rises and sets with my daughter Bindi, it really does, I just long to be with her, I always have, I think I always will." "When I finished with that croc I went back to the camp and did dress ups with the Barbie dolls."

My opinion is that more would do well to have parents who love their children the way Steve Irwin did.

This does not mean that he should put his ideals second. Should children become one's life when they are born, or share it? Taking the perspective of being HIS own God, should he not continue his strong ideals and share his life with his children?

Priestess Ygraine, I am not saying that you are wrong, but am stating a different perspective. As I do not have children, I cannot speak with the perspective that you can.

Quote:

In fact, I consider him exactly the same as a drug user in terms of parenting.




Ok, I do disagree with you regarding this. Drug use is purely selfish and destructive. The same cannot be said about Irwin. Those around Steve and around the world, are not saying that he was selfish and has neglected his children. In fact, he has given them something that most humans never have. True love and passion. His two children will continue with his enthusiasm and passion, and will make a dramatic contribution to animal conservation.

I will finish off with a quote from Steve, which captures his enthusiasm.

"I am a wildlife warrior. And I will fight to the death for wildlife." - Steve Irwin
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#186764 - 09/06/06 08:28 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:

"When in another's lair...."




I think that this needs to be extended upon. To use half the quote does not do it justice.

When in anotherís lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

Is not conservation and building the passion for it to be considered respect? Irwin was always aware that he could meet his demise whilst working with animals, but pressed forward in the interest of conservation.




I used half the quote because anyone who doesn't know the rest should not be here.

Yes, conservation is respectful, prodding and handling unwilling animals for the sake of entertainment is not.

As I said, kudos to him if he did real conservation work of consequence, but he still loses points for being an ass with animals for the sake of drooling television audiences or his own need for attention.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
ďA membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.Ē -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#186765 - 09/06/06 10:32 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Svengali]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Quote:

I used half the quote because anyone who doesn't know the rest should not be here.




I do understand and agree Magister Svengali. I expanded to provide support for my point. I also add that as this in the the 'public' area, there could be those who would take quote out of context.

Quote:

Yes, conservation is respectful, prodding and handling unwilling animals for the sake of entertainment is not.

As I said, kudos to him if he did real conservation work of consequence, but he still loses points for being an ass with animals for the sake of drooling television audiences or his own need for attention.




I do understand and respect your opinion, even if we do disagree with whether his motives were conservation or attention. I do, however, believe that there is supporting evidence to prove that conservation was his major motivation.
_________________________
"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#186766 - 09/06/06 10:44 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Is not conservation and building the passion for it to be considered respect?

I'm not trying to sound morbid when I say the following, and in fact I'm completely serious. The stingray didn't feel respected whatsoever.

Bottom line, if Steve Irwin's passions were his family and wildlife conservation, he would have at some point realized that he can help out both of those causes much better alive than dead, and he would have ceased his reckless behavior. I've watched the Jeff Corwin show many times, and he provides education about nature and animals, but he doesn't take the foolish risks Steve Irwin was known for. He gets the job done just fine, and at the end of the day, he's alive and goes back to his family.

Irwin was always aware that he could meet his demise whilst working with animals, but pressed forward in the interest of conservation.

You call it pressed forward. I call it continuing to show disregard for his own safety, which is also something I call blatant stupidity. Once again, he could have done the job and spread awareness without the reckless antics.

Taking the perspective of being HIS own God, should he not continue his strong ideals and share his life with his children?

His own god? When was it decided that Steve Irwin was a Satanist?

"I am a wildlife warrior. And I will fight to the death for wildlife." - Steve Irwin

Sounds like a martyr, not someone who is his own god.

I understand that Steve Irwin will be missed by many, including many members of this board. He might even be a hero to many of you. That's fine. But I think it's foolish to turn a blind eye to the man's faults now that he's dead.
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#186767 - 09/06/06 11:00 PM What did the cameras not show? [Re: Svengali]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

As I said, kudos to him if he did real conservation work of consequence, but he still loses points for being an ass with animals for the sake of drooling television audiences or his own need for attention.




I've admittedly bounced back and forth on this guy. I can't say I don't respect his life. I can say I don't respect his judgement.

Your point is easily missed. I must confess that I missed this as well. He didn't just enter their world or invite them into his. He took a huge camera crew--along with whatever tools and toys they use on the animals that we aren't seeing. If his conduct ON camera is any indication of what the audience does NOT see, I would think that perhaps like a self-serving parent, the animals weren't REALLY about the animals--but about him--about the excitement, the danger--whatever, but not about the animals. This is not good.

It's easy to miss, since cameras don't show themselves or what happens when they're off. Even many of his on-camera stunts were annoying to me. His judgement with the baby was just plain fucking stupid.
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Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#186768 - 09/06/06 11:21 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When in another's lair...."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think that this needs to be extended upon. To use half the quote does not do it justice.

When in anotherís lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

Is not conservation and building the passion for it to be considered respect? Irwin was always aware that he could meet his demise whilst working with animals, but pressed forward in the interest of conservation.







Silly me! I was under the impression that those posting here would know the rest. Moreover I am dubious that the kind of folks who need to watch someone nearly get bit, stung, or eaten to awaken their understanding of conservation are likely candidates for check writing.

A couple of names---Cousteau, Fossey, Goodall, Adams, Hannah and that bad boy Marlon Perkins encouraged just as much without the antics. Several gave their lives as well.

Oh, and if you're in my lair and you want to save me, try to do it without putting your hand up my skirt, or holding me upside down.

Quote:

This brings me to the second point you have made.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The risks he took implies that those children were less important to him than his ideals.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Any footage shows how close he was with his family. Then I ask, what of those within the Military who have family. Is their active duty to be considered putting family second to their ideals? What if it is no longer an ideal, but purely work?

Steve was very close with his family Priestess, I would go as far as saying he was a role model as to how many fathers should be.








1. I don't doubt he loved his family. I doubt he was responsible about that love.

2. You're intensely naive if you think how a family acts in public or in still pictures is proof of shit. I can show you a decade's worth of "documentation" of one "happy" family....you'd never know the level of dysfunction that was their day to day existence. Doubt can set you free, friend.

Quote:

My opinion is that more would do well to have parents who love their children the way Steve Irwin did.






Love without responsibility is just a word.

Quote:

This does not mean that he should put his ideals second. Should children become one's life when they are born, or share it? Taking the perspective of being HIS own God, should he not continue his strong ideals and share his life with his children?

Priestess Ygraine, I am not saying that you are wrong, but am stating a different perspective. As I do not have children, I cannot speak with the perspective that you can.





With modern medicine and contraception there is not a single excuse for bringing a human life into the world if one doesn't intend to make that child the number one focus. Its not a cat or a dog but a human life created by the parent in its own image---what could be more god-like?

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, I consider him exactly the same as a drug user in terms of parenting.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ok, I do disagree with you regarding this. Drug use is purely selfish and destructive. The same cannot be said about Irwin. Those around Steve and around the world, are not saying that he was selfish and has neglected his children. In fact, he has given them something that most humans never have. True love and passion. His two children will continue with his enthusiasm and passion, and will make a dramatic contribution to animal conservation.

I will finish off with a quote from Steve, which captures his enthusiasm.

"I am a wildlife warrior. And I will fight to the death for wildlife." - Steve Irwin




You presuppose quite a bit. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of his children ends up resenting animals and the movement that cost their father his life. At the least their subconscious will be asking "why wasn't I enough?"

As I said, I admired the man, but now there are two fatherless kids in the world. He took unessacary risks, but they will pay for it for a lifetime.

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#186769 - 09/06/06 11:28 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Mason_Rust]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
His own god? When was it decided that Steve Irwin was a Satanist?

I understand that Steve Irwin will be missed by many, including many members of this board. He might even be a hero to many of you. That's fine. But I think it's foolish to turn a blind eye to the man's faults now that he's dead.


I did not mean to infer that he was a Satanist, but was merely pointing out a perspective.

You make an excellent point which extends beyond Irwin, regarding turning a blind eye to faults when someone is dead.
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"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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#186770 - 09/06/06 11:35 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:

I used half the quote because anyone who doesn't know the rest should not be here.




I do understand and agree Magister Svengali. I expanded to provide support for my point. I also add that as this in the the 'public' area, there could be those who would take quote out of context.

Quote:

Yes, conservation is respectful, prodding and handling unwilling animals for the sake of entertainment is not.

As I said, kudos to him if he did real conservation work of consequence, but he still loses points for being an ass with animals for the sake of drooling television audiences or his own need for attention.




I do understand and respect your opinion, even if we do disagree with whether his motives were conservation or attention. I do, however, believe that there is supporting evidence to prove that conservation was his major motivation.




It was not an either/or proposal. He was obviously motivated by conservation and the desire for attention.

The conservation motive is good.

The desire for attention is irrelevant except for the part that impelled him to invade the space of wild animals and harrass them for the sake of public entertainment under the guise of "education."

If an animal snaps at you or tries to escape, it is fairly sound to interpret the message as "fuck off and leave me alone."

In this sense he was invading lairs and being disrespectful to the animals.

As Rev. Ygraine has pointed out, other naturalists have been able to present wildlife in great detail without obnoxiously forcing themselves on the animals.

In that respect he was an asshole.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
ďA membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.Ē -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#186771 - 09/07/06 12:01 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Svengali]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Quote:

In this sense he was invading lairs and being disrespectful to the animals.




I agree with this point.

Quote:

As Rev. Ygraine has pointed out, other naturalists have been able to present wildlife in great detail without obnoxiously forcing themselves on the animals.

In that respect he was an asshole.




Other naturalists have arguably not had the same positive impact on animal conservation that Irwin has. His handling methods, from my understanding, were not called into question by most reptile handlers.

So again, on this point I do have to respectfully disagree Magister.

Whilst we may disagree, it has not been my intention to raise debate on this issue. It has, however, I think raised some good points overall.
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"Some people dream of success... while others wake up and work hard at it." - Author unknown

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