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#186772 - 09/07/06 12:09 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Ygraine]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Quote:

Silly me! I was under the impression that those posting here would know the rest. Moreover I am dubious that the kind of folks who need to watch someone nearly get bit, stung, or eaten to awaken their understanding of conservation are likely candidates for check writing.




First of all, I never said I was even a fan of Irwin's. I have not spent time watching his documentaries. But I do respect him. I have attempted to bring a perspective and conversation in a polite manner Priestess. That is all.

Quote:

2. You're intensely naive if you think how a family acts in public or in still pictures is proof of shit. I can show you a decade's worth of "documentation" of one "happy" family....you'd never know the level of dysfunction that was their day to day existence. Doubt can set you free, friend.




At the end of the day, unless one is a part of their family they cannot validate any claims by the media regarding the 'happiness' of the family. But neither does that mean that the views presented were a lie. I have only presented material which I think can help to provide a more informed opinion which may otherwise be neglected.

It is more naive to make judgements without having the ability to make an informed judgement.

My intention here has been to provide a perspective.

Some people thought he was an asshole, and still do now. That's ok. But at least it is a more informed judgement.


Edited by BrehtJB (09/07/06 12:11 AM)
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#186773 - 09/07/06 01:01 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Svengali]
Shiva Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 2762
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
Just a word about his on-camera antics...

Mind you, I'm neither solidly condoning nor condemning the way Mr. Irwin behaved on camera. There are some things he did that even had me shaking my head in disbelief. I'm just saying that I understand it from an entertainer's point of view.

I don't know anything about how Irwin came to have his own show and became such a big celebrity in the nature show host circuit. What I do know is that his name is often one of the first mentioned when you ask anyone on the street to name one.

Unless someone is already interested in the featured animals, the average person won't tune in very long to see footage of an animal while the host talks about it several yards away or even off-camera. But you get someone who appears to be putting his life on the line at every second, more people are going to tune in... not unlike car crash gawkers.

I think Irwin understood that, and used that to get people's attention. He could reach the folks who wouldn't be caught dead watching National Geographic or Wild Kingdom. And he could cash in on that and finance the things that mattered most to him (namely his conservation work) as well as get other people to help finance them.

So I'm hard-pressed to find fault in the way he presented himself on his show. It obviously worked out well for him and got him into the position where he could do what he wanted to.

As for the animals that he caught for the camera, while I have no doubt that they were annoyed about it, I'm pretty sure they were unharmed by the ordeal. I'm of the mind that a moment's inconvenience may be worth it when it comes to how many people he educated and inspired on his shows. Maybe the kid with the BB gun might not shoot at the black snake in his back yard after viewing an episode of the Croc Hunter.
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#186774 - 09/07/06 01:14 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Shiva]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10133
This is pretty much my line of thinking. Any wild snake and pretty much any reptile will have precisely one reaction to a human or anything other than a prey animal or a mate, and that is "fuck off." Snakes are all solitary animals and have no desire to interact with you (yes, this includes your pet ball python; pet snakes may tolerate your contact but trust me, it won't care in the slightest if you never touch it).

A moment of irritation for the animal sometimes does good, however. Scientific study and education will by necessity require that the animals will not really "like" what's going on. That's a shame, but there's nothing to be done for it. The best we can do is to not harm the animal and to put it right back where we found it, something Irwin was pretty insistent on doing (to all appearances anyway) on his show. I don't bother speculating what he did off camera, because I never saw him off camera.

So yes, Magister Svengali is correct in his assessment that none of the animals Mr. Irwin encountered were happy to see him, hence why they fled and struck. The alternative would have been to use long range lenses to film the animals, but that makes for just another "boring" nature show that wouldn't have gotten any mass appeal. Yes, as a purist I favor those shows and I actually favor reptile shows (from what little I've seen) like Mark O'Shea, who is a herper's herper. However, O'Shea just hasn't gotten the public imagination like Irwin did and hasn't brought the same kind of common man respect for the animals, and therefore also hasn't made the same kind of money that was rolled back into conservation. I'll never argue that Irwin was the paragon of all that is "right" about how to herp or handle animals, only that in his case the good outweighed the bad.
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#186775 - 09/07/06 05:44 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Shiva]
Svengali Offline
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

I think Irwin understood that, and used that to get people's attention. He could reach the folks who wouldn't be caught dead watching National Geographic or Wild Kingdom. And he could cash in on that and finance the things that mattered most to him (namely his conservation work) as well as get other people to help finance them.




I guess there is some validity to that, however repulsive it is.

I'm of the opinion that the best thing humans can do for wildlife is to stay the fuck away from it. That especially goes for little Johnny.
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#186776 - 09/07/06 06:57 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Shiva]
Colonel_Akula Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 2065
Loc: The North
You have an excellent point and one that I support. I always equated Irwin's personality with that of a child. When I first saw his program I thought it was a kids' show. But it did lure the viewers in.

Perhaps this was a necessary evil that served a greater purpose.

If you watch The Barefoot Bushman you will see this point powerfully illustrated. This man is calm and jovial yet he behaves no differently than Irwin when it comes to handling animals. He is also a passionate conservationist and also owns a zoo. Yet his ratings are nowhere near that of Irwin’s. In fact when The Outdoor Life Network bought his show they renamed it killer Instinct in order to draw in the viewers.

Sometimes you must chose the lesser of two evils.

HS!!!
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#186777 - 09/07/06 10:06 AM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

This is pretty much my line of thinking. Any wild snake and pretty much any reptile will have precisely one reaction to a human or anything other than a prey animal or a mate, and that is "fuck off." Snakes are all solitary animals and have no desire to interact with you (yes, this includes your pet ball python; pet snakes may tolerate your contact but trust me, it won't care in the slightest if you never touch it).




I completley agree with you on this notion. Not only for snakes but for most wild life animals. Humans are the most destructive creatures in this world and have a way of ruining things while in the proccess of trying to preserve it. Mr. Irwin failed many of the Sins. One law comes to mind when viewing Mr. Irwin in an animals habitat, "If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy"

He was a masochist working towards his own death.

He got exactly that.
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#186778 - 09/07/06 12:05 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
the reason steve died was because the bullray felt trapped

Apparently as has been reported on the news day in and day out since his death, is that the cameraman was swimming in front and steve on top and the bullray felt trapped and reacted...

this is one time he did not handle the animal but was nearby.
there is apparently video footage of the last moments, as i have heard on the news, the last moments played out something along these lines....

steve and cameraman swimming and recording for the documentary, Steve gets the bullrays barb straight through his chest piercing right through his heart, he pulls it out and dies on the spot and dissapears underwater, cameraman stops recording.
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#186779 - 09/07/06 05:48 PM Crikey! Watch me ride this ray, matey! --oh fuck, matey! I'm dead! [Re: Svengali]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

In that respect he was an asshole.




He was not an asshole. He was the whole ass.


It just occurred to me--if you really think about the positioning of it all, a stingray's barb is on it's tail--and mechanically shoots upwards. Considering they generally do not attack or even actively defend themselves, how could he have gotten stabbed in the heart unless he was mistreating the ray? If he were stabbed in the leg, maybe, but the heart is a pretty damned cumbersome target for a ray, unless he had his chest above and to the rear. Why?--unless he was trying to ride the thing.

I recognize that it is circumstantial, and I leave room for error here, but my money says he was trying to ride the thing--expecting it to just lay back and accept it, and got exactly what he deserved.

I hope some of the animal rights assholes are clever enough to consider this possibility and demand the video be examined for evidence of animal cruelty. Perhaps P.E.T.A can be prodded into playing front-man?
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#186780 - 09/07/06 06:02 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
I liked Steve Irwin and I think he was a great guy. His tragic death made me and my wife very sad. But I always said his crazy stunts with dangerous animals would one day backfire. I have great respect for his work with animals, but when I saw him petting and even kissing a giant crocodile I felt he took things to unnecessary extremes.

But I also understand how TV works. A “normal” naturalist don’t get the same ratings that a crazy one who jumps in the mud with the beasts. It was his insanely fearless behavior that helped him made millions for the Zoo and animal protection projects.

He was walking that line between the serious efforts to protect animals and the sensationalist antics that paid for them. He got injured several times and he made that part of the show. It was just matter of time until he would receive a fatal wound.

Personally, I admire a person who lived doing what he loved and made himself remembered after death. But “dying doing what you love” is not my idea of success. He could have lived longer (and help more animals) by being a little more careful.
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#186781 - 09/07/06 06:33 PM Re: Steve Irwin 'The Crocodile Hunter' is dead [Re: Old_Pig]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
Quote:

Personally, I admire a person who lived doing what he loved and made himself remembered after death. But “dying doing what you love” is not my idea of success. He could have lived longer (and help more animals) by being a little more careful.




I agree with your sentiments. I enjoyed his talent, but he had it coming.
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#186782 - 09/07/06 07:28 PM Re: Crikey! Watch me ride this ray, matey! --oh fuck, matey! I'm d [Re: Quiddity]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
Quote:

I recognize that it is circumstantial, and I leave room for error here, but my money says he was trying to ride the thing--expecting it to just lay back and accept it, and got exactly what he deserved.




Quoting Tekku from above:
Quote:

Apparently as has been reported on the news day in and day out since his death, is that the cameraman was swimming in front and steve on top and the bullray felt trapped and reacted...




If you think of the logistics of the situation, to receive the barb in the chest is not an easy thing. Police have confirmed that he was not harassing the stingray but was swimming above it.
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#186783 - 09/07/06 07:59 PM The stingrays don't care about police opinions... [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

Police have confirmed that he was not harassing the stingray but was swimming above it.




Is there a proper way to stalk a stingray? I don't think the stingray cared about the cops' according-to-Hoyle verdict. I'd like to read the police blotter--"He wasn't "harassing" the wildlife--was just practicing 'animal-husbandry'--but the stingray caught him at it one day--and that was his last mistake."
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#186784 - 09/08/06 12:31 AM Re: The stingrays don't care about police opinions... [Re: Quiddity]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

He was practicing 'animal-husbandry'--until the stingray caught him at it one day--and that was his last mistake."







thats so wrong its funny...hahahah

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#186785 - 09/08/06 01:22 AM Re: Tribute. [Re: IX Von ZehEhv]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10574
Loc: England
As some amongst us have been really cut up over this TV personality's death I attach here a small tribute.

I hope it remembers his work in a fitting manner and perhaps goes some way to relieving your grief.


Attachments
368647-irwin04.jpg (112 downloads)

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#186786 - 09/08/06 02:09 AM Re: Tribute. [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
IX Von ZehEhv Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 708
That was good. Though I must say I was suspicious of your post to begin with.
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