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#188720 - 09/17/06 08:28 PM I'm waiting!! *DELETED*
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Post deleted by Asmedious

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#188721 - 09/17/06 09:46 PM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Asmedious]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3968
Loc: The Deep South
I have not flowers or candy...

How about a beer?
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#188722 - 09/17/06 11:24 PM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Old_Pig]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
I'll drink to that

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#188723 - 09/18/06 01:20 AM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Asmedious]
satanictruth Offline


Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 26
Loc: New York
Im still new here but happy fifth i'll have a cold one for you

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#188724 - 09/18/06 03:03 AM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Asmedious]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
It's in the mail.

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#188725 - 09/18/06 04:34 AM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Asmedious]
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
You've been here five years...and still haven't made your way downstairs?
_________________________
www.vampiretemple.com
Are You One Of Us?

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#188726 - 09/18/06 12:45 PM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Caesar]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

You've been here five years...and still haven't made your way downstairs?




Perhaps I do not as yet feel myself worthy.

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#188727 - 09/20/06 03:44 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Try giving up having to evaluate yourself for a month and then see how you feel.

Go ahead an evaluate what you do. You can always improve what you do.

But just give up the unnecessary notion of having to evaluate your "worth".

You are not an apple on a grocery stand.

No joke.

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#188728 - 09/20/06 05:16 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Nemo]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
I,on the other hand can't wait to join downstairs.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#188729 - 09/20/06 11:29 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
My reasons for not joining the CoS are somewhat more complicated then that. Though I feel a great amount of gratitude to Dr. LaVey for the positive impact that his writings had on my life, and also view the Church of Satan’s representation of the Satanic philosophy as a positive thing, there are some view points of the present organization that I do not totally agree with or perhaps I simply do not understand. When I give my word to an agreement between myself and another entity such as a person or a group, I take it seriously and I follow through completely, if I am able to do so. Therefore I am very careful not to give my word if I may not be able to abide by it.

This is not to say, that I have negative feelings towards the Cos, only that some of our view points differ and I do not feel that my membership would be beneficial at this time for either one of us.

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#188730 - 09/21/06 06:40 AM Re: I'm waiting!! [Re: Asmedious]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
Quote:

Quote:

You've been here five years...and still haven't made your way downstairs?




Perhaps I do not as yet feel myself worthy.




Might I add that one's presence on an internet message board, no matter for how long, should have any bearing on whether one joins the CoS.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#188731 - 09/21/06 06:46 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

there are some view points of the present organization that I do not totally agree with or perhaps I simply do not understand.




For example?

Also, you specify "the present organization" - are you under the impression that something has changed? If so, what?

Just curious.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188732 - 09/21/06 07:21 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Svengali]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

For example?

Also, you specify "the present organization" - are you under the impression that something has changed? If so, what?

Just curious.




Unfortunately, I am not articulate enough to provide an argument in regards to the things that I disagree with, as relating to the CoS.

They have been covered in previous posts by myself and others, and as with most things that are based on individual beliefs, not everyone shares the same views. I find this to be a positive thing, because if everyone agreed on everything, this would be a boring world. Though perhaps safer then the current status of it.

As for my use of the term “The current CoS administration, I am referring to the fact, that unfortunately Dr. LaVey is no longer with us, and it is his work and contribution that I value and respect, and know from his writings. To me personally, he is the Church of Satan. But even he stated in one of his books, that his views change often, and that what he writes one day, might not be how he feels the next. I am not sure which book this was in, since it has been several years ago that I have read it. Perhaps “Satan Speaks,” but again, I am not certain.

Hence, one of the things that I take issue with, is that many Satanists quote his work the same way that people of other belief systems quote their respective doctrines.
I believe that what may have been true when those ideas were put on paper, might not be so as time goes on, and that the only people qualified to say how they would feel about current events, is the people who wrote the original doctrines. So if I was a Catholic, I might have serious doubts about having the Pope be a spokes person for Jesus, or God. Yes, I would make a lousy Catholic. I hope.

For me, the “Big Picture” that Dr. LaVey has painted about his ideas is timeless, but the “nuts and bolts” eventually need adjustment, and each individual person has to make those adjustments for themselves. No organization can do that for a person, because everyone grows at different speeds, and in some extent, in different directions.

For me to join any group, and to pledge my self to follow and abide by all of their rules and ideas, would make me feel as if I was giving my independence and free thought over to someone else, and the older that I get, the more difficult such an alliance is.
This does not mean that I would not be willing to support a group of people or an organization, which shares my basic ideals. I just chose not to be officially affiliated with any, since there is no guarantee that our ideals will always be the same. One of the reasons that I do not pledge my allegiance to any person or group, is because as I stated before, my word of honor is one of the most important things to me, and once I give it, I would likely follow through with it, even if it may not turn out to be in my best interest. So if I give my word to someone, I will follow through come Hell or high water even at my own peril. Again, as with every rule, there are exceptions dictated by common sense. I realize that I might seem to come across as saying one thing, then shortly saying the opposite. Like I said, I am not as articulate in expressing my ideas as I wish that I was. But in my twisted little brain it all makes perfect sense.

For example, I am not a flag waving patriot, and if the United States was literally invaded by a foreign power, I would not run down to the local Armed Forces recruiting office and swear an oath to follow the orders of someone in charge. However, I would engage the enemy on my own terms, in my own way.

The same idea holds true for my feelings about the CoS, and Dr. LaVey. If I feel that someone is wrongly attacking either one, I will likely express my disagreement with them, but at the same time, I do not want to feel obligated to blindly defend their views because I am an official member.

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#188733 - 09/21/06 08:59 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Quote:

Unfortunately, I am not articulate enough to provide an argument in regards to the things that I disagree with, as relating to the CoS.

They have been covered in previous posts by myself and others, and as with most things that are based on individual beliefs, not everyone shares the same views. I find this to be a positive thing, because if everyone agreed on everything, this would be a boring world. Though perhaps safer then the current status of it.

As for my use of the term “The current CoS administration, I am referring to the fact, that unfortunately Dr. LaVey is no longer with us, and it is his work and contribution that I value and respect, and know from his writings. To me personally, he is the Church of Satan. But even he stated in one of his books, that his views change often, and that what he writes one day, might not be how he feels the next. I am not sure which book this was in, since it has been several years ago that I have read it. Perhaps “Satan Speaks,” but again, I am not certain.

Hence, one of the things that I take issue with, is that many Satanists quote his work the same way that people of other belief systems quote their respective doctrines.
I believe that what may have been true when those ideas were put on paper, might not be so as time goes on, and that the only people qualified to say how they would feel about current events, is the people who wrote the original doctrines. So if I was a Catholic, I might have serious doubts about having the Pope be a spokes person for Jesus, or God. Yes, I would make a lousy Catholic. I hope.

For me, the “Big Picture” that Dr. LaVey has painted about his ideas is timeless, but the “nuts and bolts” eventually need adjustment, and each individual person has to make those adjustments for themselves. No organization can do that for a person, because everyone grows at different speeds, and in some extent, in different directions.

For me to join any group, and to pledge my self to follow and abide by all of their rules and ideas, would make me feel as if I was giving my independence and free thought over to someone else, and the older that I get, the more difficult such an alliance is.
This does not mean that I would not be willing to support a group of people or an organization, which shares my basic ideals. I just chose not to be officially affiliated with any, since there is no guarantee that our ideals will always be the same. One of the reasons that I do not pledge my allegiance to any person or group, is because as I stated before, my word of honor is one of the most important things to me, and once I give it, I would likely follow through with it, even if it may not turn out to be in my best interest. So if I give my word to someone, I will follow through come Hell or high water even at my own peril. Again, as with every rule, there are exceptions dictated by common sense. I realize that I might seem to come across as saying one thing, then shortly saying the opposite. Like I said, I am not as articulate in expressing my ideas as I wish that I was. But in my twisted little brain it all makes perfect sense.

For example, I am not a flag waving patriot, and if the United States was literally invaded by a foreign power, I would not run down to the local Armed Forces recruiting office and swear an oath to follow the orders of someone in charge. However, I would engage the enemy on my own terms, in my own way.

The same idea holds true for my feelings about the CoS, and Dr. LaVey. If I feel that someone is wrongly attacking either one, I will likely express my disagreement with them, but at the same time, I do not want to feel obligated to blindly defend their views because I am an official member.




All of the people who have come to this board, and have asked "What is the Left Hand Path?" should read the above.
Hail Satan!
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#188734 - 09/21/06 10:00 PM Sure. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
How interesting.

You wish to define Satanism as what Anton LaVey meant (in your opinion) but not necessarily what he wrote (which was his opinion).

So if anyone wishes to point out to you anything the Doktor wrote that disagrees with your opinion, you can deny it is relevant any longer.

Nonsense.

You are only fooling yourself if you actually believe this.

Quote:

I just chose not to be officially affiliated with any, since there is no guarantee that our ideals will always be the same.




The answer to this incredible dilemma would be to resign.

No one chains you to an oar in the COS boat.

The exit door is plainly marked and those who want to leave are (ahem) encouraged to use it.

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#188735 - 09/21/06 10:02 PM Re: The Left Hand Path. [Re: Lust]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

All of the people who have come to this board, and have asked "What is the Left Hand Path?" should read the above.




Yes. They should read it and reject it.

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#188736 - 09/21/06 10:07 PM Re: not beneficial. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

...I do not feel that my membership would be beneficial at this time for either one of us.




I agree.

Please don't.

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#188737 - 09/21/06 11:01 PM Re: Sure. [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

How interesting.

You wish to define Satanism as what Anton LaVey meant (in your opinion) but not necessarily what he wrote (which was his opinion).

So if anyone wishes to point out to you anything the Doktor wrote that disagrees with your opinion, you can deny it is relevant any longer.

Nonsense.

You are only fooling yourself if you actually believe this.





I do not reject what he wrote. On the contrary, I believe that I embrasse his ideals. However, as with many "doctrines" there is a certain amount of interpretation involved.
My interpretation of the Satanic bible is that Satanists think for themselves.

My view of Dr. LaVey, is not that of a theologian beating people over the head with his ideas and wishing for them to follow in his footsteps, and have them become little LaVey carbon copies, but one of the greatest kinds of teachers that exist. The best teachers are not the ones that teach students what to think, but instead gives them the tools to use that will help them learn to truly THINK FOR THEMSELVES. I see Dr LaVey, as a liberator of minds, and not an enslaver to his ideals. People may argue, that I do not understand the man, since I have never met him. True. But the only one who could tell me that I am way off base, is Dr. LaVey himself.

You can teach a person what, and how to think, which can give them the feeling of being accepted in to the fold, or you can teach a person to think for themselves and set them truly free.

Quote:

So if anyone wishes to point out to you anything the Doktor wrote that disagrees with your opinion, you can deny it is relevant any longer.




I do not have to deny it, but I can question it to see if it is still relevant today. Perhaps if he was still around, he too might have made some adjustments to his theories in order to better fit them into changes in his own life.

Is it realistic to believe that what the Doktor believed in 1966 is exactly the same thing that he believed in 1976, or 1986? As peoples lives and experiences change over the years, is it not normal for some of their views to be adjusted as well?
If the original people who wrote the christian bible, or the Quran were still around today, would it not be possible that they might look at the people who still follow their writings of so long ago, and shake their heads in disbelief, that their followers have not grown in their ideas?

Quote:

You are only fooling yourself if you actually believe this.





Perhaps I am, and it is possible that further down the road, I might realize that I was indeed foolish for my present beliefs. But if that time comes, I will be able to admit that I have grown and matured, and will be able to move on, without being chained by pride to my past beliefs for fear of being ridiculed for being mistaken.

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just chose not to be officially affiliated with any, since there is no guarantee that our ideals will always be the same.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The answer to this incredible dilemma would be to resign.

No one chains you to an oar in the COS boat.

The exit door is plainly marked and those who want to leave are (ahem) encouraged to use it.




So why enter the door in the first place?

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#188738 - 09/21/06 11:03 PM Re: The Left Hand Path. [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of the people who have come to this board, and have asked "What is the Left Hand Path?" should read the above.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes. They should read it and reject it.




Absolutely true. Read it, reject it, and think for themselves.

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#188739 - 09/21/06 11:08 PM Re: not beneficial. [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

...I do not feel that my membership would be beneficial at this time for either one of us.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree.

Please don't.





Oh Nemo, I think we'd get along just fine

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#188740 - 09/22/06 12:51 AM Re: Thinking versus nonsense. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
If they truly think for themselves then they will reject the assumption that freedom to think anything desired does not equate to thinking clearly.

You propose a dogma of freedom verson reason.

You may keep it.

Reason wins every time.

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#188741 - 09/22/06 12:53 AM Re: get along. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Another assumption based on what you believe rather than what someone (in this case me) has written.

I can get along with you.

Your assumptions, however, are quite hopeless.

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#188742 - 09/22/06 12:56 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Give me examples of how the Church of Satan has changed over the last 10 years.

Occasionally I see people making this tired claim, that the Church of Satan has "changed", yet when asked for examples they are unable to produce them.

.... and they are usually people who were never in a position to know one way or another in the first place.

You are tilting at windmills.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188743 - 09/22/06 01:49 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
I do agree with you on one point: a static philosophy is one doomed to fail in practice. Ideas must either grow or be thrown onto the proverbial trash heap of history. That is one of the many things that makes Satanism unique as a religion. Satanists do not claim "divine" knowledge and are therefore free to grow without violating the doctrine. Traditional religionists paint themselves into a corner by proclaiming that their doctrines were given to them by a supreme, omniscient deity (usually through a convenient intermediary.) When they are forced to change with the times, as it were, they change bits and pieces. To any Satanist, this is blatant hypocrisy. Fortunately for religionists, most people are either incapable of seeing this or choose not to do so. Aforementioned religionists have become masterful in using circular un-logic, half-truths, and outright lies to answer anyone smart enough to figure out their racket and confront them.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Maybe you have some sort of affiliation phobia. You wouldn't be the first person. As far as I can tell, you are a reasonable person and genuinely sincere. Perhaps you will some day see a flaw in your present thinking and join the CoS. Perhaps not. I hardly think it matters in the larger picture. I am just a member of the CoS, but the policy is that the Church neither wants nor needs those not completely sure of where they stand, as far as I know. I for one totally agree.

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#188744 - 09/22/06 01:56 AM Re: "I do not reject what he wrote." [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I do not reject what he wrote.




Then read what he wrote on this issue:

Those who disparage and belittle the Church of Satan to an obsessive degree reveal their fetish. In reality and practice, by their consuming interest, they reveal their true religion to be—the Church of Satan. Otherwise, they would turn on their heel, walk away, and refuse to subject themselves to that which they need not. Clearly, they need us. We don’t need them.

Satanism is the only religion which serves to encourage and enhance one’s individual preferences, so long as there is admission of those needs. Thus, one’s personal and indelible religion (the picture) is integrated into a perfect frame. It’s a celebration of individuality without hypocrisy, of solidarity without mindlessness, of objective subjectivity. There need be no deviation from these principles. They should summarily negate internecine strife and bickering. Any attempts at Satanic “reformation” should be seen for what they are: creating problems where none exist. There should be no place in any religion for reformers whose very religion is the fetish of reformation. There is even a place and title for compulsive dissidents, and if they can wear the mantle, they are welcome. They would delude themselves to be revolutionaries. In our camp, they are called “House Masochists.”

LaVey laughs and quotes Dracula: "If you will fall down and worship me - consider, practice, allow yourself to be a reflection of my needs, decide to chose me as your master - it will literally free you to go out into the world and be free yourself."

That answers the question, "Why the Church of Satan?" Because I know the power of certain words and the implications that they have in people's everyday lives and when something loses its impact, it becomes ineffectual. So again, alienation is often very powerful if you use it to your best advantage.

The Church of Satan will be the pivotal point for an acknowledged belief system of the 21st century, incorporating significant numbers of people. After I’m gone, no single individual will serve to lead the organization. Rather, it will consist of a syndicated group of leaders presided over by a chairman. The “Satanic Army” is comprised of individuals, not cultists.

If you cannot find freedom within this street smart perspective then you have missed the entire point of the Church of Satan.

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#188745 - 09/22/06 07:55 AM Re: Sure. [Re: Asmedious]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

You can teach a person what, and how to think, which can give them the feeling of being accepted in to the fold, or you can teach a person to think for themselves and set them truly free.





You suggest that a person can be taught to be a Satanist, this is an impossible task. You are either born a Satanist or you aren't one at all. As simple as that. The Satanic Bible was written by a Satanist for Satanists.



Quote:

Is it realistic to believe that what the Doktor believed in 1966 is exactly the same thing that he believed in 1976, or 1986?




YES!


Edited by Unknown (09/22/06 08:11 AM)

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#188746 - 09/22/06 08:31 AM Satan Speaks [Re: Asmedious]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

Perhaps “Satan Speaks,”




Dr. LaVey did express some very strong feelings in this particular book about The Church of Satan.

Anyone who resists affiliation with the Church of Satan yet draws from it for any reason, personal or financial, is not independant, only parasitic.
_________________________









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#188747 - 09/22/06 09:55 AM Re: Satan Speaks [Re: Unknown]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
You have all given me quite a large plate of food for thought. It will take time to try to digest it all.

While I do that, I do have a question about this quote.

Quote:

Anyone who resists affiliation with the Church of Satan yet draws from it for any reason, personal or financial, is not independant, only parasitic.





I am confused how the above quote and the idea of, one does not have to join the CoS to be a Satanist can both be valid.

I am willing to consider the possibility that perhaps I was being "Parasitic" for calling myself a Satanist, yet not wishing to join the CoS, but Dr. LaVey stated that it is not neccessary to do so.

Also after reading Nemos' responses, I am also willing to consider the possibility that I am a Pseudo-Satanist, and not a real "Satanist." The problem with that idea is that I know that I AM a Satanist. Nemo or perhaps other CoS members might not feel that I am, and that is their right. However, the only one who would be able to say for certain (in my opinion) is the person who originally coined the term.

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#188748 - 09/22/06 10:18 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Svengali]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

Give me examples of how the Church of Satan has changed over the last 10 years.

Occasionally I see people making this tired claim, that the Church of Satan has "changed", yet when asked for examples they are unable to produce them.

.... and they are usually people who were never in a position to know one way or another in the first place.

You are tilting at windmills.





Point taken. I mis-spoke (wrote), if I said that the CoS has changed in the past ten years. I am not a member, and would have no way of knowing that.
What I was attempting to express, is that the original founder of the CoS is no longer around, and to me HE WAS THE Church of Satan.
This is the biggest and most profound change in the past ten years that I am aware of, and to me, a very important change.

With that said, I would again wish to express that I do support the present organization because I recongize the benefit of Satanism being represented by them and giving the Philosophy validity and structure. I would go even farther by financially supporting it, if it was within my means to do so, while still stopping shor of being a card carrying member.
Maybe the poster who stated that I might have an organization phobia is right.

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#188749 - 09/22/06 10:34 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:


What I was attempting to express, is that the original founder of the CoS is no longer around, and to me HE WAS THE Church of Satan.
This is the biggest and most profound change in the past ten years that I am aware of, and to me, a very important change.






So in other words, you are not interested in anyone carrying on Dr. LaVey's work. You wanted to join a personality cult.

It is really better then that you don't affiliate with the Church of Satan. That is not what he would have wanted then, and it is certainly not what we want now.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188750 - 09/22/06 11:11 AM Throwing out a few thoughts [Re: Asmedious]
Serua Offline


Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Canada
I am not yet a CoS member, I'm rather new to the board, but I just felt like throwing out a few comments/thoughts on this entire topic and what I've read.

As I have understood it, personally, the CoS does not seek out members. It seeks neither to draw anyone in nor to teach them in any sense. It is simply there for those who seek it and choose by their own free will to ally themselves with it. In fact, that is one of the many points that gives me a great respect for it.

Therefore, if you believe in what Anton LaVey wrote, if you find yourself within those very pages and choose to call yourself a Satanist .... are you not, by that very act, allying yourself with Anton LaVey, himself and by your own very nature...with the CoS?

True, you are not a member until you become a member. I guess my confusion stems from the wish to not ally yourself with the very organization that it would seem, you have chosen to ally yourself with. It simply seems rather nonsensical, in my personal opinion.

Reason would dictate that you either are or are not a Satanist, either do or do not agree with the writings of Anton LaVey and therefore would not find yourself unsure of membership in the organization. You would either seek it or walk through the perverbial exit door.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion, but I found the matter rather confusing as a whole. In general, I am fascinated by such curious things.

I personally, see no grey lines. There is, symbolically speaking, black and white in these situations. Grey, in my opinion, is simply fence sitting. Fence sitting symbolizes a rather neutral, safe and cowardly way to avoid choosing where you stand on an issue or in life, and as such symbolizes mediocracy. Of course, this is simply how I look at things, personally.

I would rather be condemned for my views than sit upon the fence.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Anton LaVey and the church both share a very similar outlook on these matters. There is no room for grey and indecision. No?

The confusion confuses me. lol

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#188751 - 09/22/06 11:20 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Svengali]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

So in other words, you are not interested in anyone carrying on Dr. LaVey's work. You wanted to join a personality cult.





That is totally off the mark. I do not understand how you could possibly reach that conclusion from what I have written. First of all, I do not wish to join any "cult." (Church)

Second, I do indeed wish that Dr. LaVeys work be carried on, I just have doubts about it being truly possible to do so, without him in the picture.

Quote:

It is really better then that you don't affiliate with the Church of Satan. That is not what he would have wanted then, and it is certainly not what we want now.




If I applied for membership and if you are in a position to refuse the request, then that is fine. However, I did not apply for it. I was merely stating my reasons for not wishing to do so. I was responding to a question. I realized from the start that it was a no win situation on my part, but I have attempted to express my beliefs as best as I am able to do so, and I have tried to do it respectfully.

If you read back several posts you will see that I was the one who originally said that "I am not worthy" when asked why I did not join. This means that I realize that some of my ideas, and opinions differ from the type of people who are welcomed into the organization.
However, to say that Dr. LaVey would have felt the same way, is presumptuous on your part. If he had known me in person, he could have gone either way. Neither one of us knows for sure. As with everyone else, there is much more to who I am, then what may come across on a message board. People can have theories about the people that post here, but a theory is only an educated guess, and there is a lot more guessing then education involved when it comes to someone believing that they know someone well enough to judge them from a few posts. Anyone is entitled to their own opinions about another person. However, that opinion is only that, an opinion and a belief, but not necessarily a reality.

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#188752 - 09/22/06 11:26 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

If you read back several posts you will see that I was the one who originally said that "I am not worthy" when asked why I did not join. This means that I realize that some of my ideas, and opinions differ from the type of people who are welcomed into the organization.





Then we are in total agreement.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188753 - 09/22/06 11:58 AM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
They have been covered in previous posts by myself and others, and as with most things that are based on individual beliefs, not everyone shares the same views. I find this to be a positive thing, because if everyone agreed on everything, this would be a boring world.

Indeed, it would be boring. Not to mention, groups of people who completely and totally agree with each other occasionally collapse under the weight of their own hubris.

HOWEVER, when no one can agree on anything, there is chaos. Chaos doesn't make for a very good structure for a group, church, or ideology, because it's devoid of structure. If everyone thought differently on each and every single issue, there would be no Church of Satan, and no Satanism, because there'd be no way to truly identify them in contrast to everything else.

I suppose you can liken it to cooking. If Satanism is Joy Luck Dragon Phoenix, then, obviously, there's a certain form and format you have to follow in order to end up with that dish, instead of, say, toss salad, or grits, or tacos. But, there's room for improvisation in the little details. Even though bean paste is required, you may add a little more than another person. You might add a pinch of pepper, for extra zest, or substitute pork for beef. But, if you do not adhere closely to the recipe in certain ways (like keeping it at a certain temperature, adding specific ingredients at a certain time, avoiding ingredients that will make it taste "off"), and if you fail to follow the general format, you will not end up with Joy Luck Dragon Phoenix.

Hence, one of the things that I take issue with, is that many Satanists quote his work the same way that people of other belief systems quote their respective doctrines.
I believe that what may have been true when those ideas were put on paper, might not be so as time goes on, and that the only people qualified to say how they would feel about current events, is the people who wrote the original doctrines.


But, we no longer have the man who wrote the original doctrines. We can no longer benefit from his continued wisdom or insight.

You're absolutely right that opinions do sometimes change. People change. I can find many ways in which the Satanic Bible differs in tone and style from Satan Speaks!, for example. But, it is my opinion that the fundamental ideas of the Satanic Bible are bedrock, and that those ideas are common to all of LaVey's works, and, indeed, are common to the writings produced by other Satanists I admire and trust. And, Satanists throughout time and from around the globe agree that these fundamental ideas still make sense and still work, though applications may be subject to change.

Of course, there will always be debate, disagreement, and diversity. Sam will be more misanthropic than Joe. Sally will vote Libertarian, while Debbie will vote Democratic, and Bobby will identify as a fascist. But, despite that, there are still common ideas that unite all Satanists, and make up the bedrock of Satanism.

No organization can do that for a person, because everyone grows at different speeds, and in some extent, in different directions.

Which is why you must be responsible for your own growth and progress. The Church of Satan cannot do it for you, and probably doesn't want to, because that's what white light religions do. You are absolutely correct that the "nuts and bolts" sometimes need to be tinkered with, and I believe that Satanism and the CoS allows for that where it's needed, though it may not tell you how or why you need to fix your own nuts and bolts.

For me to join any group, and to pledge my self to follow and abide by all of their rules and ideas, would make me feel as if I was giving my independence and free thought over to someone else, and the older that I get, the more difficult such an alliance is.

Your spirit is admirable--no sane, proud person wants to surrender over their independence and free will---but I think you're being a bit too paranoid.

Joining the CoS is not like joining a neighborhood church, or a political party that meets every Tuesday. I've certainly dabbled in churches and organizations for fun that demanded a lot more attendance, allegiance, and towing the line than the CoS does. Some CoS members never make contact with other Satanists, or even the organization itself! You don't have to show up to meetings or reveal your affiliation or die for a cause, so your role as a member can largely be whatever you wish it to be.

And yes, being a member of the CoS does require that you adhere to a few extra agreements, and dilligently adhere to the usual ones, if you want to remain a member. For example, as a CoS member, you don't just get to waltz onto the Montel show and spout off; this is why we have agents. You don't get to dabble in other "satanic" organizations, either, nor do you get to molest children, sacrifice animals, or commit crimes. But, I'd tend to think these are pretty fair requirements that smart people should typically want to respect anyway, whether they're a CoS member or not.

But, it's your decision, of course, and your money as well. Certainly, nothing in my life changes whether your name is blue or yellow here. No one is forced or obligated to join, and some Satanists never do. Just be sure the decision is yours, and that you've based it on reasoned, accurate information and reasons. If you find you disagree with some core tenets, for example, then it makes absolutely perfect sense to not join.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#188754 - 09/22/06 12:21 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: TrojZyr]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Those who accuse the Church of Satan of being "regimented" are either completely blind to the diversity of people involved and their projects, or they are pushing an agenda, or both.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188755 - 09/22/06 12:40 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Svengali]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
We're in agreement there, I would say.

One just needs to observe, meet, and/or talk to Satanists in order to understand how diverse and independent all of the the personalities and the lifestyles are. This posting board only reveals a hint of the larger diversity that exists.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#188756 - 09/22/06 01:05 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: TrojZyr]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
You are absolutely right.

I also preceive the attitude here that "If you are not with us, you are against us."
It might be worth considering, that an affiliation goes both ways. When people find out that one is a member of an organization, they often wrongly assume, that, that persons views and actions are also the views and actions supported by the organization that they have joined.
If anyone found out that I was a member of the CoS for example, anything that I may say, would be taken as CoS doctrine. To most people the fact that the CoS does not allow itself to be represented unless one is given specific premission, does not matter to most people. Imagine if one day, I have a few too many drinks (though I very rarely drink) and decide to go sky diving in the nude, and my parachute doesn't open. Eventually someone will likely find a litte red card that states "CoS Member."
What would make a better headline? "Idiot drunk falls nude out of sky" or "God punishes Church of Satan member for sinful life"? Yes this is a far out example, but perhaps you get my point.
Chosing to not affilate with an organization is not always a sign of disrespect, it might actually be a sign of great respect by the desire to protect its integrity, and not chance tarnishing it.

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#188757 - 09/22/06 01:08 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: TrojZyr]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Quote:

HOWEVER, when no one can agree on anything, there is chaos. Chaos doesn't make for a very good structure for a group, church, or ideology, because it's devoid of structure. If everyone thought differently on each and every single issue, there would be no Church of Satan, and no Satanism, because there'd be no way to truly identify them in contrast to everything else.




Wise observation and something that I have never seen put so concisely. It is lesson I agree with and a lesson which would serve me well to put into practice more often.

At times my questioning nature is a bit too bold.


Edited by Drimlybunk (09/22/06 07:15 PM)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#188758 - 09/22/06 01:54 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I also preceive the attitude here that "If you are not with us, you are against us."




Bullshit.

The Church of Satan is quite clear on its policy that membership is not mandatory for Satanists, that someone can be a Satanist without joining the Church.

We also have categories for "de facto" Satanists (ie., Satanists in all but name) and "fellow travellers" (ie., those who are in substantial agreement with the basic world view of Satanism, but are disinclined to the aesthetic).

But there are good reasons for not joining, and then there are bad reasons.

And there are "fellow travellers", and then there are parasites who try to pass themselves off as the "real deal" and who slander the Church of Satan. If you're with THEM, you're against us.

Can you tell the difference?
_________________________
reprobate

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#188759 - 09/22/06 02:37 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
zouzoumamoux Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 119
Loc: The Infernal Empire
Quote:


Chosing to not affilate with an organization is not always a sign of disrespect, it might actually be a sign of great respect by the desire to protect its integrity, and not chance tarnishing it.




This one interested me!!!...one must dare to succeed and take the heat when one fails...if you are by lottery appointed Satanic pope and make a mess...well, that would not happen anyways...so, what's this about tarnishing...DO you wish to stand on a soap box and yell "Hail Satan"???

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#188760 - 09/22/06 03:30 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
Quote:

Chosing to not affilate with an organization is not always a sign of disrespect, it might actually be a sign of great respect by the desire to protect its integrity, and not chance tarnishing it.




So, your plainly admitting that you lack integrity and are scum that would tarnish the COS. Well, I won't argue with you there.

But then seriously, why are you here? Your posts reek of attempted shit disturbance.
_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#188761 - 09/22/06 03:45 PM Re: Satan Speaks [Re: Asmedious]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
The answer is simple:

There are countless people that read The Satanic Bible and identify with the beliefs, philosophies, and principles outlined within it. They declare themselves Satanists and live their lives as such, without need for affiliation or interaction with others of their ilk.

Then, there are those who claim to "not want to affiliate," but yet seek to interact in someway with other Satanists. These people seem to want to obtain the benefits of membership without actually becoming a member. They wish to affiliate without affiliating. They hang around and "feed" off of the members of the church, and by proxy, the church itself. Then, when someone has the audacity to question them about their lack of afilliation, they usually spew some garbage about "not wanting to conform," or " I'm not a fan of the current CoS administration," or, "I don't think I can my beliefs or thoughts can be pigeonholed into one particular group," and they always pull out the quote from Dr. LaVey about not having to join the Church of Satan to consider yourself a Satanist. When all the while they've been trying to weasel their way into someone's inner circle, and trying to take the Devil's name without playing the Devil's game. These are the parasites that Dr. LaVey refers to, and there's no place for them here.
_________________________
Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
Host - Hate Speech Radio
http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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#188762 - 09/22/06 04:03 PM Re: Satan Speaks [Re: Asmedious]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:

You have all given me quite a large plate of food for thought. It will take time to try to digest it all.




Don't try to eat it all at once, you might choke!
_________________________









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#188763 - 09/22/06 04:19 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
I think it's a really interesting phenomenon this behavior of yours.
It's an irrational fear of affiliation… but you keep trying to rationalize it. Perhaps because you are afraid of ""submitting"" to being apart of a group…? Although it's a group of individuals, and not a community- and you probably know that by now.
It's just a childish fear of realizing you are not the only one who has such thoughts about certain things, therefore you can be categorized. Deprogram yourself from thinking affiliation is necessarily bad…
Having a strong need of reformation can be very good---- if you know how to use it wisely. And that’s everything really- using your natural dispositions wisely.
I have a disposition to reform (or just rebel) but upon understanding that disposition, I learned to utilize it for my best interests.
It's like a wild horse you have to learn to tame- otherwise you're going to hurt yourself, or find yourself galloping the wrong direction.
You might have an irrational fear of being bound to something… although, when you think of it, you don't have a choice really…. You are bound to be who you are, who you were born to be.
I you mistrust yourself so much to stick to who you really are- this is something you should seriously work on, for your own sake.
But well, your life is yours to do whatever you wish and see fit with it.
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#188764 - 09/22/06 04:28 PM Re: Satan Speaks [Re: Unknown]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have all given me quite a large plate of food for thought. It will take time to try to digest it all.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Don't try to eat it all at once, you might choke!





Indeed, and if I do, at this point, I don't think anyone would Himlich me

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#188765 - 09/22/06 08:16 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
My question is, if you're nude..where in the hell would you stick your red card then?
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#188766 - 09/22/06 08:56 PM If you are not with us, you are not with us. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
You imply that there is something you are doing or have done or will likely get caught doing that would "embarrass" the Church of Satan.

Since the only thing I am aware of that is forbidden is criminal activity or criminal advocacy then if you refuse to name the cause of your "unworthiness" I shall have to assume it involves this area of self-defeating behavior.

Am I wrong?

If I am right the smart answer is simple and is unrelated to whether or not you join the Church of Satan but is wholly related to your own future welfare.

Stop.

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#188767 - 09/22/06 09:00 PM Bravo! [Re: TrojZyr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

HOWEVER, when no one can agree on anything, there is chaos. Chaos doesn't make for a very good structure for a group, church, or ideology, because it's devoid of structure. If everyone thought differently on each and every single issue, there would be no Church of Satan, and no Satanism, because there'd be no way to truly identify them in contrast to everything else.




So true.

So obvious.

So rare.

Thank you.

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#188768 - 09/22/06 09:16 PM Re: If you are not with us, you are not with us. [Re: Nemo]
Asmedious Offline


Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 617
Yes sir, you caught me. But not in the fact that I perform criminal activity. And it's not because I've done illegal things, and simply have not been caught. I have not been placed in situations where laws have threatened my well being, therefore my record is clean totally. With the one exception of blowing through a stop sign five years ago. (Never thought there would be a stop sign in a deserted area, didn't bother to look.)I do not share the view that no matter what, all laws should be respected blindly. I believe that there are exceptions in extreme situations. One example that I can think of, is being accused of a crime and knowing that a person cannot prove ones innocents, yet the law would require that individual to turn themselves in, and play jury roulette. Innocent people have done the "right thing" and the justice system has failed them. I didn't bring this point up, because it has been covered several times, and I was attempting to avoid another long drawn out thread. Perhaps I should have just said it, and got it over and done with.

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#188769 - 09/22/06 09:34 PM Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Serua]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I guess my confusion stems from the wish to not ally yourself with the very organization that it would seem, you have chosen to ally yourself with.




There is no real confusion.

The Church of Satan simply does not want losers.

To help screen out losers the Church is very clear about what is not acceptable behavior.

Stupid behavior is unacceptable.

That is why those who wish to advocate or participate in criminal activity are told in no uncertain terms, "No!"

For example, I have seen many "wannbee" members show up here and then get all huffy when they realize that illegal drug use is considered by us to be stupid.

"What?! No dope?!"

Yes. That's right, kiddies.

If you are a pothead, crack, meth, heroin, mushroom, LSD, fill-in-the-blank drug user then don't let the door smack your ass on the way out.

Drugs are for slaves.

"Wow! The COS is a bunch of puritanical anti-drug jerks?!"

Actually, the Church of Satan is intended for winners.

Those who find that they are compulsively having to take drugs (or involve themselves in other such criminal activity) are losers.

They are weak.

We are uninterested in weak people.

It doesn't matter that they confuse "freedom" with mindless (suicidal) hedonism and somehow think that that is what Satanism is.

It isn’t.

Satanism is rational hedonism.

Losers don’t like that restriction on their “freedom”.

They want to do whatever they want to do.

Right now.

“The consequences be damned.”

That seems to be a popular motto of losers I have observed over the years.

However, the Church of Satan is an organization intended for winners, not losers.

So, for example, if anyone reading this feels their "freedom" to smoke pot is being inhibited by joining the Church of Satan, then don’t join and go ahead and stone yourself to death for all we care!

To be a Satanist is to be elite.

To be a Satanist is to be a rational hedonist, not a mindless puppet compulsively controlled by the pleasures of the moment.

The Church of Satan only wishes to have Satanists as members.

This is an elite organization.

Slaves, morons and rebels without a clue are not wanted.

Just my own loving opinion.

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#188770 - 09/22/06 09:57 PM Re: Criminal activity [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

I do not share the view that no matter what, all laws should be respected blindly.




Then exactly what laws are you concerned about if you are not breaking them anyway?

The Satanist does not live in a hypothetical world of "maybes".

He lives in the real world.

If you are accused of a crime and you are innocent you may be screwed no matter what you do.

Why, it might even be that someday you might die!

Reality happens.

You might wish to carefully read again (if you have already) the High Priest’s essay Rebels Without Cause .

It addresses in depth everything you have mentioned.

Everything.

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#188771 - 09/22/06 10:09 PM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Nemo]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
@Asmedious...

i didnt realise that making a symbolic gesture to join CoS was worth such mental anguish?

nevertheless..this topic has progressed and anything i wanted to say has already been said and discussed...

@Magister Nemo....

I must say, you have quite a way with words!

Your eloquence, wisdom, candor and sometimes brutal frankness in expression is so sexy!
Love it!

_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188772 - 09/22/06 11:05 PM What about past mistakes? [Re: Nemo]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
What about past mistakes?

I’ve decided to fill in the blanks. Call me stupid. But concealing decisive details would be a waste of time. And I need to know.

I did use drugs in my 20’s, socially, yet rather abusively. I cleaned up cold turkey and changed my mind set, not for mere survival or redemption, but because there was just too much worth keeping and doing.

Maybe in consequence of having deployed that radical change in my life, and kept my balance ever since, I grew up to despise not only drug abuse and compulsions in general but any sort of self-induced desperation, depriving people from proper reasoning, proper choices or proper scrutiny. Lies included, of course!

Facing reality is a pleasurable challenge. Offering a real image is as pleasurable.

It’s pretty easy to conceal behind the screen. People can say/omit whatever they please, but will never get away with the fact they have miss the only type of honesty that really matters. Such a curse is absolutely out of question to me!

Of course I was considering the idea of joining the CoS some time from now, but thinking of Magister Nemo’s harsh warning I wonder weather this leak will seriously affect the scrutiny.

Where do I stand in terms of eventual membership?

october1560


Edited by leonor (09/23/06 12:52 PM)
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#188773 - 09/22/06 11:34 PM Re: I'm waiting!! *DELETED* [Re: Asmedious]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
I just want to say one tiny thing, then I am done. I think you might be confusing ACTIVE membership with REGISTERED membership. That's just my thought. I may be wrong, but I am seeing lots of conversation about being in the public eye, and if I recall correctly, that only happens if you apply for ACTIVE membership.
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#188774 - 09/23/06 12:07 AM Re: I'm waiting!! *DELETED* [Re: Asmedious]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
The Church of Satan is an organisation for "non-joiners".

If you have gotten ANYTHING from The Satanic Bible or other Satanic related literature it's a token of RESPECT to affiliate with the one organisation that genuinely does have your best interests in mind. You may not have something to offer right now, but what about in the future?

To affiliate or not is an individual choice, but in my eyes, it is also an indicator for how much RESPECT they have for the Church and it's Members, active or not.

So many "people" drift in and out of the "upstairs" it's staggering. They come here, post about how much they identify with Satanism, or proclaim loudly their newfound status as a Satanist, and then never affilate on the basis that "Well, I don't have to affiliate to be a Satanist".

It's laziness and shows a lack of respect... plain and simple.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

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#188775 - 09/23/06 01:37 AM Re: If you are not with us, you are not with us. [Re: Asmedious]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I do not share the view that no matter what, all laws should be respected blindly.




"Blindly?"

To whom are you ascribing that view?
_________________________
reprobate

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#188776 - 09/23/06 03:38 AM Re: If you are not with us, you are not with us. [Re: reprobate]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
By my thinking: If you find the law too hard to obey look for a way to change it or get out of that city/state/country.

I do things every day I would rather not do, I even went to a church for a sermon two days ago. Why would I do such a thing? A funeral for a relative in a family that happens to be quite christian. It would have been downright foolish to not attend simply because I disagree with the ceremony -- it would have ment me having to explain to somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 other relatives (most of whom have supported me through out my life) why I found it too much of a hassle to sit still and be quite for an hour. Most importantly: just because I went does NOT mean I did it blindly, I was fully aware of the circumstances the entire time.

I look at obeying laws of my country, state, and city in the same way. I might not like them, some are even downright frustrating but the cons of not following them far outweigh the pros for disobeying them.


Edited by Drimlybunk (09/23/06 03:42 AM)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#188777 - 09/23/06 03:55 AM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Nemo]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Sir,
I love your own loving opinion. You are hitting the nail on the head again. Respect! Hail Satan.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#188778 - 09/23/06 04:53 AM Re: If you are not with us, you are not with us. [Re: reprobate]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

Quote:

I do not share the view that no matter what, all laws should be respected blindly.




"Blindly?"

To whom are you ascribing that view?




To the straw man.

_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#188779 - 09/23/06 01:18 PM Brutality. [Re: tekku]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Nothing is more brutal than mortalty.

Thank you for your kind words.

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#188780 - 09/23/06 01:24 PM Re: What about past mistakes? [Re: leonor]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Learning requires making some mistakes.

It all depends upon the degree and nature of the mistakes made.

Context is everything.

I can assure you, however, that to fail to learn from such mistakes will close the door to COS membership.

The stupid never learn.

We are elite for good reason.

When the Church was first formed in the sixties, the Doktor held the entire hippie drug culture in disdain.

We still do.

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#188781 - 09/23/06 01:28 PM Churches [Re: Drimlybunk]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Going to Christian church services can be great entertainment.

Just try to remember when they pass the plate that while the money there is intended for God they really don't mean you!

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#188782 - 09/23/06 01:29 PM Underground. [Re: Lillith]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
No member of the Church of Satan at any level of membership is required or expected to reveal his or her membership in public.

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#188783 - 09/23/06 02:33 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I first read The Satanic Bible seven years ago. I spent time between then and now exploring as much as I could. Now, seven years later I have read all the other books and reread them. Then I read them again. I have fully identified myself with Satanism and mailed off my $200. Why? Because I respect the CoS and the respect they have for Satanists. Affilliation with the Church is indeed a personal choice. If you truly find yourself identified with Satanism, then why not join? Certainly it is not required and then again as has been said, "Membership has its priviledges."

I certainly am glad I sent off my apps, and I should be receiving word within the next month or so(based on the 16 week waiting period). Just because one affilliates with the Church does not mean they are required to openly identify said affilliation with the general public, active or otherwise. There is a reason the CoS does not reveal membership information. One reason I am certain is because of the personal choice each member has to openly affilliate if desired, or for that matter to keep that information private.

I am sure there are some Satanists out there who do not join and do not need to join to identify with Satanism, that is entirely their choice. I am equally sure there are plenty out there who adopt the label of Satanist and do not join for fear of being identified otherwise. Therefore, they continue to wear their "badge" and never chance being outted. Again I must say, if you identify with the CoS and can spare the $200, then surely one could benefit from joining. I certainly wish I had been able to do so prior to the High Mass, that would have been a wonderful event to attend I am sure. I am also sure there will be many more splendid events to come. This is only one example of the many benefits that can be had from joining.

I read the books. I identified with the tenets. I mailed my aps. Now I wait.

Hail Satan!

Edit: I just checked the mail and lo and behold, I received my crimson card!


Edited by xDravenx (09/23/06 02:42 PM)

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#188784 - 09/23/06 03:00 PM I'm perplexed [Re: Felstorm]
luciferHammer Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 242
Quote:

The Church of Satan is an organisation for "non-joiners".

If you have gotten ANYTHING from The Satanic Bible or other Satanic related literature it's a token of RESPECT to affiliate with the one organisation that genuinely does have your best interests in mind. You may not have something to offer right now, but what about in the future?

To affiliate or not is an individual choice, but in my eyes, it is also an indicator for how much RESPECT they have for the Church and it's Members, active or not.

So many "people" drift in and out of the "upstairs" it's staggering. They come here, post about how much they identify with Satanism, or proclaim loudly their newfound status as a Satanist, and then never affilate on the basis that "Well, I don't have to affiliate to be a Satanist".

It's laziness and shows a lack of respect... plain and simple.




This point seems contradictory. If I read any books by Doktor Lavey, someone would have paid for it. This is, in my opinion, the price of wanting to read it. Is beneficing from it make me obligated to paid for a Cos membership? I don't think so. In the same way, I don't have to pay any author if I beneficing from his published books. The cost is the price of the book, paid most of the time directly or indirectly by the reader. The author is also well aware of this is fact when he decides to publish something.

Not being a member impeded me from accessing the downstair area, being part of the activity of the Cos, knowning about the grottos in my region, etc... If I pay for a Cos membership, it is only because I want to access one of these things. Upstair, it is a public place as anyone can access and stay, conditionnaly to following some simple rules. I don't thing that anyone can be considered unrespectful to the Church of Satan for not paying a membership while participating in a public forum, whatever long he has been upstair. In that case, your point seems some kind of lesser magic, which purpose is to make people feeling guilty and pay for a Cos membership. Whatever if he is a Satanist or not...

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#188785 - 09/23/06 10:55 PM Re: I'm perplexed [Re: luciferHammer]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
I'll say it this time, many have said it before.

Joining the Church of Satan is not about getting anything.
People who are thinking of what they will gain from joining shouldn't.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#188786 - 09/24/06 07:55 AM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Nemo]
IMMORTAL809 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 14
Loc: US
"To be a Satanist is to be a rational hedonist, not a mindless puppet compulsively controlled by the pleasures of the moment."

I'm quite new to this philosophy as a whole (Satanists). What I quoted from you above can be interpreted in many ways but I get the point.

I personally have a disdain for excessive use of alcohol. It's dangerous, destructive, and kills people like an unseen plague. Does that mean noone should ever consume it? Maybe not yet I know some that need to follow that thought. The same holds true for any substance that brings a pleasurable experience to the body. This can be something as simple as a massage oil, select foods, aromas, or indeed things considered as illegal drugs.

To be a "rational hedonist" is an idea that all of mankind should follow. Nothing I described above should be a compulsive way of life. I agree, those are the actions of a loser. I may or may not agree on detailed aspects of it and this may be one of the cornerstones of my learning experience.


Edited by IMMORTAL809 (09/24/06 07:56 AM)

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#188787 - 09/24/06 07:57 AM Re: I'm perplexed [Re: Drimlybunk]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:

People who are thinking of what they will gain from joining shouldn't.




So why do you think Satanists DO join? For altruistic reasons?
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#188788 - 09/24/06 10:47 AM Re: Brutality. [Re: Nemo]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

Nothing is more brutal than mortalty.

Thank you for your kind words.




Your very welcome and you are right again...so true
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188789 - 09/24/06 11:29 AM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: IMMORTAL809]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
It's really up to the individual what he/she wants to do,but to me personally i don't need any substance (drugs,booze,smokes) to feel more vital, richer and most of all... alive. I don't need an escape route or artificial euphoria feeling to kick the 'bad day'. Satanism to me is facing life like it is, here and now..it's about gaining succes, strenght, glory and personal freedom. I don't even see a difference in illegal drugs, soft or hard...it's the sure way of loosing your fire and giving in on weakness and addiction in the very end. The story of alot of people's life.
There's enough examples around of all us that are giving food for thought on how you DON'T wanna live your life. Drunk assholes, junkie scumbags begging for money and just a whole bunch of annoying addicted idiots in our streets.
There's plenty of other means that are a pleasure and that are good for the body, training my temple through martial arts, running and swimming are my personal drugs.There's nothing more satisfying than crossing the natural border and getting that natural high.
Reading books, checking good movies and having healthy discussions from time to time are good mental trainers. Being a Satanist AND taking illegal drugs don't go hand in hand in my opinion.
Indulgence, yes..but with a healthy state of mind. My two cents.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#188790 - 09/24/06 01:05 PM Re: What about past mistakes? [Re: Nemo]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
This had to be done.
Thank you sir.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#188791 - 09/24/06 01:07 PM Re: I'm perplexed [Re: The_Lightning]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
To support an organization that I respect.

I do not see how the CoS could help me get anything more out of life than what I already have or have set goals to achieve. Maybe I will find differently and that is all well and good but is not the reason that I joined.

The CoS is not some kind of path to success, it is not a support group, it won't give me a good deal on a new car and it certainly does not cost $200 to mail out the membership confirmation.

By associating with the CoS I show my support monetarily and by adding to our number, which itself is quite important. I help assure, if only in a small way, that the CoS continues to function and more importantly exist as a formal opposition to all of those things which I feel are ruining people and slowing down our society.

But all that I have said here I read somewhere else. Probably on this message board and certainly in LaVey's books.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#188792 - 09/24/06 01:23 PM Re: I'm perplexed [Re: Drimlybunk]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Quote:

By associating with the CoS I show my support monetarily and by adding to our number, which itself is quite important. I help assure, if only in a small way, that the CoS continues to function and more importantly exist as a formal opposition to all of those things which I feel are ruining people and slowing down our society.




Doesn’t this prove you DO get something out of joining? =P

I just wanted to point out that what you wrote was inaccurate, because whatever we do we inevitably do to gain something.

But overall- we agree.
Happy birthday by the way!
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

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#188793 - 09/24/06 01:23 PM Re: Underground. [Re: Nemo]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
I understand that the only way a member would reveal his or her membership is by personal choice. I was making the comment that maybe Asmedious has active membership confused with being an agent for the church or something. He sounds like perhaps he thinks once he joins that he will be expected to uphold the church "precepts" in the public eye or something. But then I may have gotten confused, who knows.
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#188794 - 09/24/06 01:25 PM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: IMMORTAL809]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
"This can be something as simple as a massage oil, select foods, aromas, or indeed things considered as illegal drugs."

I highly doubt that we might find someone who's life was turned to crap becasue they used too much massage oil. You probably won't find age limits, driving/flying restrictions or "recovery" groups having to do with it either.

If you can have an alcoholic drink or two without it exposing your inner idiot then you're fine. If you drink and drink and drink because you're compelled to, that's another story. Abusing legally restricted substances is another thing as well.

Better yet, what works for you?
_________________________




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#188795 - 09/24/06 01:52 PM Re: Churches [Re: Nemo]
Achilles Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 223
Quote:

Going to Christian church services can be great entertainment.

Just try to remember when they pass the plate that while the money there is intended for God they really don't mean you!




Nice!
_________________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

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#188796 - 09/24/06 02:48 PM Re: I'm perplexed [Re: The_Lightning]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
I s'uppose you are right

And thank you

_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#188797 - 09/24/06 05:16 PM Re: Underground. [Re: Lillith]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
From his profile:

Registered on 09/07/01 03:33 PM

I think that five years is more than enough time to be able to figure out such details if they troubled you, don't you agree?

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#188798 - 09/24/06 05:18 PM "Indulgence not compulsion" [Re: IMMORTAL809]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Important words.

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#188799 - 09/24/06 08:03 PM Re: not "worthy" [Re: Asmedious]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2194
Quote:


For me to join any group, and to pledge my self to follow and abide by all of their rules and ideas, would make me feel as if I was giving my independence and free thought over to someone else,




This is where people get The CoS and "group" mixed up.

The CoS is for non-joiners. We are individuals. We all have our own views, goals, personal aesthetics and so forth.

The main thing we all share here is the study and appreciation for the structered principles laid down by Dr. LaVey.

When I think of the word "group", I think of a gang. Gang members need their "group" because they are cowards by themselves.

"Groups" are for people that are weak. "Groups" are for people that can't think for themselves. "Groups" are for people that have a need to belong.

I sure don't know how many members the CoS has and it's none of my concern. I do know for a fact that we all are not going to have some "group" meeting, pick flowers and hug each other to death.

HS!
_________________________
$$$ Get Rich or Die Tryin' $$$

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#188800 - 09/24/06 08:18 PM Re: Underground. [Re: Nemo]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Yes, I do believe I would have to agree.
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#188801 - 09/24/06 08:26 PM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: tekku]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
[quote@Magister Nemo....

I must say, you have quite a way with words!

Your eloquence, wisdom, candor and sometimes brutal frankness in expression is so sexy!
Love it!






I have to say I agree as well, I enjoy reading Master Nemo's replies to just about anything, and his posts as well. A refreshing change from ambiguous opinions. I appreciate brutal honesty in all its forms!
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#188802 - 09/24/06 08:33 PM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Lillith]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Thank you for your kind words.

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#188803 - 09/25/06 08:17 AM Go deeper [Re: RandomStranger]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Cumpulsion is really a mind set that goes far deeper than just abusing legal or illegal substances. It's that mind set that matters. I often compare compulsion to religion. An obcessive need to worship the object of compulsion, no matter what.
I see some "recovered" individuals as "recovery junkies" who simply stopped using drugs, but which mind set remains exactly the same. Same way, many people who never used drugs, are junkies, without even knowing it.

Sport or fashion junkies for instance.

Thing is not to allow ANYTHING to nail you to the wall.
I'm not excusing anything here, on the contrary, I'm expanding the scope.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#188804 - 09/25/06 09:10 AM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Lillith]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

[quote@Magister Nemo....

I must say, you have quite a way with words!

Your eloquence, wisdom, candor and sometimes brutal frankness in expression is so sexy!
Love it!






I have to say I agree as well, I enjoy reading Master Nemo's replies to just about anything, and his posts as well. A refreshing change from ambiguous opinions. I appreciate brutal honesty in all its forms!




my thoughts exactly 100%
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188805 - 09/25/06 10:01 PM Re: Confusing freedom with stupidity. [Re: Nemo]
Serua Offline


Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Canada
I'll admit, I was writing this post and hit delete, going back over what you wrote and re-reading....then, re-writing.

At first, I thought you had misunderstood my post. Upon a second reading, I realized that you had not. I am not used to conversing regularly with people as intelligent and blatant (right word? maybe, honest?) as those I tend to find here.

If I might point out a few favourites that made me giggle with delight...


Stupid behavior is unacceptable.
Drugs are for slaves

To be a Satanist is to be elite.

To be a Satanist is to be a rational hedonist, not a mindless puppet compulsively controlled by the pleasures of the moment.

The Church of Satan only wishes to have Satanists as members.

Slaves, morons and rebels without a clue are not wanted


Might I take pause and grin with respect? Reading your post was wickedly delightful.

(Just my own loving opinion.) I really rather like you, Nemo. LOL I truly do. That was indeed a perfect ending to the post.

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#188806 - 09/26/06 03:53 PM Another one for my “Ignore this user” button. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I have instituted a new personal policy for non-members here at LttD.

Every time I read someone who states "I am a self-proclaimed Satanist - I have no intention of ever joining the Church of Satan" or "I see no point in studying Satanic literature" or the like, then I am simply going to click on that user's name and then click on the option "Ignore this user".

After all, if someone rejects the Church itself and/or the teachings of Satanism, why should I give them the time of day here, much less continue to read their nonsense?

Frankly I would encourage others to do the same.

There is a vast difference between someone who embraces Satanism and maintains an open mind about affiliation with the Church versus those come here and reject it outright.

Enjoy your isolated wisdom, oh great ones.

I do not care to read your words further.

Bye bye.

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#188807 - 09/26/06 04:50 PM Rice Satanists. [Re: luciferHammer]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Quote:

This point seems contradictory. If I read any books by Doktor Lavey, someone would have paid for it. This is, in my opinion, the price of wanting to read it. Is beneficing from it make me obligated to paid for a Cos membership? I don't think so. In the same way, I don't have to pay any author if I beneficing from his published books. The cost is the price of the book, paid most of the time directly or indirectly by the reader. The author is also well aware of this is fact when he decides to publish something.

Not being a member impeded me from accessing the downstair area, being part of the activity of the Cos, knowning about the grottos in my region, etc... If I pay for a Cos membership, it is only because I want to access one of these things. Upstair, it is a public place as anyone can access and stay, conditionnaly to following some simple rules. I don't thing that anyone can be considered unrespectful to the Church of Satan for not paying a membership while participating in a public forum, whatever long he has been upstair. In that case, your point seems some kind of lesser magic, which purpose is to make people feeling guilty and pay for a Cos membership. Whatever if he is a Satanist or not...




As I said earlier it is a token of RESPECT to affiliate.

As Magister Nemo pointed out, those that sit around here and proclaim themselves enlightened human animals as a result of reading some or all of Anton LaVey's work, and then turn around and say "I'm a SATANIST! But I'm never going to affiliate because I don't have to."

To those that have that attitude: You are a hypocrit.

Hangers-on. Wanna-bes.

Either you ARE.

Or you are NOT.

If you are, affiliation isn't a question of "Why should I?" but "When am I?".

Monetary restrictions I can understand. Not everyone is born wealthy, or has $200 to idly "throw around". I know I've certainly been there. Being in a "sensitive" job like the military or government where it could cause real social problems, I can understand that, too. We have several active miltary service members that have affiliated ANYWAY, despite the potential social consequences.

But for the rest I have no respect or sympathy. They're pathetic excuse-makers.

It took me a year of testing to validate the CoS material. And it took me a one-week to "magic" the money I needed for Membership once I had validated that material.

The results I got more than impressed me, and at that point it was obvious that if I was to Play the Devil's Game, I had better take the Devil's Name.

I wasn't about to be a "Rice Satanist".

I didn't do it because I wanted access to "downstairs", or for any other material gains, or some "Bad Guy Badge".

I did it because I have RESPECT for the Church, and RESPECT for the people that take a lot of their own precious personal time to help run it.

Like Magister Ventrue who so generously and graciously runs this board for his and our "entertainment". Yet how many "Thank you Magister Ventrue" posts have we seen grace this particular forum?

$200 is a pittance. It really, really is.

That other stuff like Grottos and "downstairs" are fringe benefits.

Get real.

Stop with the excuse making. I'm not here to "guilt trip" anyone into joining. If you feel guilty it's because what I've said struck a nerve.


Edited by Felstorm (09/26/06 05:05 PM)
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#188808 - 09/26/06 05:07 PM My own take on this. [Re: luciferHammer]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I do not care if someone comes here with an open mind and enjoys the benefits of this message board.

They do not even need to subscribe to Satanism for me to communicate with them in a courteous and pleasant manner.

I do draw the line on refusing to offer my own commentary any longer to those who close their minds to Church membership as a potential as well as those who close their minds to the teachings of the Church as worthy of their attention or study.

I do not care a whit if someone never chooses to join the Church of Satan.

I simply have decided that I am not going to waste my time here on people who have closed minds on these two issues of potential membership and respect for the teachings.

I do not have to come here to find closed minds.

I enjoy coming here and finding open ones, however.

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#188809 - 09/26/06 05:16 PM Re: Rice Satanists. [Re: Felstorm]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Well said and thank you.
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#188810 - 09/27/06 03:16 AM Re: Rice Satanists. [Re: Felstorm]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I definitely agree with what you have said here, Felstorm. I first read TSB seven years ago. I tested those writings in comparison with a lot of other material I researched over the years. Then, back in May I went to the CoS website and started reading to see how the Church had been progressing over the years. Through the CoS website I found a link to this web forum.

While I have obtained some note-worthy ideas and thoughts from others on this board, it is hardly a basis for anyone to found their Satanic perspective and developement. I not being a social creature have devoted a large portion of my time online, and essentially here. I also took the time to order the other core books written by Dr. LaVey and Magistra Barton along with a few other nice reads on the side. I took the time to read these books, absorb the material and test it. It was because of the results of my study and validation that I ponied up the $200, which wasn't that hard. July is a good month for me financially and within a week of deciding I wanted to join the CoS I had my $200.

I received my card a few days ago and have already felt the benefits. There is much activity within the structure of the CoS for active parties to participate in. I imagine as time progresses I will find even more reasons to be proud of my decision to affiliate. I have much respect for this organization and I can say I am proud to have affiliated.

However, if one isn't going to affiliate, they should at least respect the teachings of Dr. LaVey and his Church. Anybody who says they do not read the books, and do not intend to affiliate with the Church are wasting their time. I have met some folks who do not (at least at this point in time) affiliate with the Church but do read the books and seem to have a firm grasp of Satanism. I imagine these folks will eventually affiliate and do seem to have it in the back of their mind as a possibility. To me, that is one step closer and definitely a better stance than to completely ignore the option of affiliation.

Dr. LaVey did state that one need not join the Church to be a Satanist. However, I find that most who bring this up tend to use it as a cop-out. What he said may be true, but I must ask. If one finds benefit from the literature and hard work of the Church and its contributing members, why not join? If not now, then why not later? Surely if one is attuned to it as they claim, they should have no trouble anteing up $200.

"Rice Satanist" is a clever way of putting it.

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#188811 - 09/27/06 12:56 PM Re: Asmedious [Re: Mr_47]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
I have so many things running through my mind in regards to your intent to start this thread to what has essentially progressed to you giving your thoughts on CoS, Dr LaVey and Satanism in General.

You contradict yourself many times over and to me its seems that not only are you not a Satanist, neither a Pseudo-Satanist, nor are you even a parasite. To me you have portrayed yourself as a psychic –vampire with a psycho-syncratic idolisation of Anton LaVey & Satanic Dogma.

I fail to understand how you can seriously state literally that you disagree with the viewpoints of the current administration of CoS, yet harbour no negative feelings towards CoS, then furthermore state that you don’t think that your “worthy” or that your membership would be beneficial to either party as when you give your “word” to an organisation that you take it seriously and then jokingly ask for congrats and flowers and what not for being a part of an internet forum, made by Satanists for Satanists?

Are you for real?

Joining the Church of Satan is a purely Symbolic gesture to YOURSELF, and an act of formally aligning yourself to the organisation that was created by Anton LaVey and which has continued to not only represent the tenets of the life-loving philosophy/religion codified by the good Doktor but which has through his personally selected “team of people”
(for lack of a better phrase at this hour after a long day), carried on his work and more in the last 10 or so years since his passing.


So in having said that you are not “worthy” am I right to understand that you are in actual fact stating that you do not consider yourself to be a rational hedonist and elite individual?
If you feel that then how can you say that you’re a Satanist in the first place regardless if you’re a member of CoS or not?

You also go on to say that you have issues with Satanists who quote the good Doktors work in such ways as others do in other doctrines.
Weighing it up against all that you have stated and the choices you have declared that you have made, without taking any steps to clarify any misunderstandings or grey areas for yourself first and foremost regarding the Satanic Philosophy & The Church of Satan, while the tools are readily available to you for so long in more ways than one….

Would you not also be guilty of empty posturing and stupidity?

And again, you also mention about not wanting to pledge allegiance to a group (ie. CoS in this instance) and support them whilst you fear that there is no guarantee that the basic ideals shall stay the same and that you fear of losing your independence and free thought to them.









I fail to understand how the basic tenets of Satanism & the 5 point program as set out by Dr LaVey will ever change as they are the bedrock to our philosophy!?

I also fail to see how you will lose your independence and free thought in any way by being
a) A registered member of CoS, which is done out of choice and for symbolic alignment for yourself only

b) An Active member or part of a S.I.G. group, also done out of choice and within which you offer your own tangible services (in any which way you choose) to further the goals of Satanism/Satanic Change in life around us.


If you look at it all together as following rules and ideas of someone else, then you are not a Satanist in any sense of the word and are deluding yourself.
What use is a word of honour, if you have no idea what you, yourself are honouring??
Even without being a member of CoS, what have you offered to Satanism to be able to question CoS and the honour of those associated with CoS?

Furthermore down the track, you go on to say…
What would people say if they found out you were a card carrying member or you did something to tarnish the reputation of CoS.
Come on!!!
Seriously!!!
It’s like a teenager hiding their smoking from their parents!

Why would you seriously care what people would say?
Are you living your life for you or for other people?
Are you ashamed of “being” a Satanist?
Is it your dirty lil secret?

In ending…
I personally don’t think you could do anything to tarnish the reputation of CoS, any acts of stupidity would only tarnish your own reputation as you’re the one committing it and should you be committing an offence of sorts then rightfully CoS should shun you for not having the integrity of a true Satanist to avoid willing acts of stupidity and consciously committing the number one cardinal sin of Satanism.
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188812 - 09/27/06 12:57 PM Re: Asmedious [Re: tekku]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
thats essay was directed at Asmedious and not you Draven


Edited by tekku (09/27/06 12:58 PM)
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188813 - 09/27/06 01:21 PM Re: Asmedious [Re: tekku]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I gathered that by the title of the post. Thank you for clarifying anyway.

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#188814 - 09/27/06 01:24 PM Re: Asmedious [Re: Mr_47]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
anytime
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#188815 - 09/28/06 10:54 AM Re: Rice Satanists. [Re: Felstorm]
Catalyst Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 792
Loc: Atwater, Ohio
Very well said, Mr. Felstorm. I agree with you on this, especially about the part of not everyone has $200 to put forth for a membership. I know I dont, but I also believe in timing my decisions, and my timing is not yet right for me to jump on board, no mater how much I respect the members of the CoS.
_________________________
catalyst4201@yahoo.com
Catalyst

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#188816 - 09/28/06 11:55 AM Re: Rice Satanists. [Re: Catalyst]
Yinta Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 128
Loc: Netherlands
Quote:

..., especially about the part of not everyone has $200 to put forth for a membership.



Than they should get a job , or a better job.
_________________________
sincerely ,


Yinta

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#188817 - 09/28/06 12:03 PM Re: Rice Satanists. [Re: Yinta]
Catalyst Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 792
Loc: Atwater, Ohio
In some areas and in some of life's situations, this is not possible. I have only farm labor to keep me going until I can take care of the things I need to correct my past mistakes from my younger days and become a bit more mobile.
_________________________
catalyst4201@yahoo.com
Catalyst

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#188818 - 09/28/06 12:22 PM Good for you. [Re: Catalyst]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12498
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I am often reminded of the old Vulcan Star Trek greeting, "Live long and prosper".

Ups and downs can (and do!) happen to anyone.

Planning to achieve those "ups" only requires steady effort and time to accomplish.

Hang in there!

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#188819 - 09/28/06 12:49 PM Re: Good for you. [Re: Nemo]
Catalyst Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 792
Loc: Atwater, Ohio
I thank you much for those words, kind sir and I would like to add that while I had at one point dug myself into what I thought was a bottomless hole using the split second decisions and immature actions of a teeneaged boy, I have now done much growing up and have begun to really see things for the way they are, I am now just trying to make amends for my past and I am now starting to see the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel. Now, maybe some of you can understand why I feel it is not the right time to go out and put down $200 for a membership NOW that I plan to achieve in due time. In my experience recently, I have learned good things DO come to those who wait, so long as they are willing to put forth the effort to acheive those things themselves. I have gone through enough "downs", Magister, but in recent times the "ups" have began to grossly outweigh them!
_________________________
catalyst4201@yahoo.com
Catalyst

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