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#192358 - 10/06/06 10:45 PM Re: Satanism with do to everything has Art! Reply terrible! [Re: reprobate]
Malachi Offline


Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Dallas, TX, USA
Quote:

And what I'm saying is, it isn't "queer" at all, exactly because of the "tone and meat" of his ideas. (What a mixed metaphor. Maybe it would do you some good to read a bit more poetry.)




As it happens, I rather do have the inclination for a bit of poetry at the moment. While I ingest the prescribed prose, I feel it pertinent to point out a discrepancy in your previous assertion. The aforementioned "tone and meat" do not actually comprise a metaphor at all, much less a mixed one. Both are independent words and belong to the lovely genus of abstract nouns. Perhaps you'd do well to make lengthy use of a Thesaurus.


Quote:

I couldn't care less whether this connection actually helps Mr. "Sheep", who's already drawn ample scrutiny upon his motives. Whatever else he may have said or asked, this at least was a legitimate question, and you do us all a disservice by answering as you did.




A known pedophile gently salivating whilst asking someone as to the whereabouts and haunts of neighbourhood children is also asking a legitimate question. Should such a person grant him the sought-after knowledge simply because the question posed was a legitimate one? I completely realize this is an extreme comparison, but I feel it illustrates my point of obvious agenda.
He further compounds this with an impassioned plea that despite having read the very basic framework of Satanism, he still cannot comprehend it. This is largely conducive of stupidity, and the greatest help that could be afforded him is an extended dissertation on the merits of running with scissors.
Any question posed by such an individual should be viciously greeted in a storm of hostility. Anything less would entail a far greater disservice.
_________________________
"Life is more true than reason will deceive" - e.e. cummings

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#192359 - 10/07/06 01:41 AM I am still waiting for your answer. [Re: Broken_Scale]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Are you open to learning what Satanism is actually about?

Are you open to the possiblity of becoming a member of the Church of Satan in the future?

Yes or no.

Thank you.

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#192360 - 10/07/06 01:45 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

There is much more to Satanism than its tenets. There is also its spirit, and its aesthetic.




Dont you think i dont know that?

Quote:

Ah, the old canard of anythinggoesism..




Not in the slightest, you completely missed the point i was trying to make.

Quote:

The fact is that there are thoughts, feelings, attitudes, and values underlying Satanism, that may be better or worse realized in art and literature. Art that embodies those feelings and values, and which does so well, CAN enrich your understanding of Satanism -- IF you take the time and energy to learn from them.[/qoute]

And i will completely agree with you there, however as was pertaining to the Sheeps question, it is still irrelevant in the broad sense. You cannot box in and generalise a religion/philosophy or the people that align to it, just by their "appreciation" of certain artworks or literature, regardless of Satanic Ideals expressed within those artworks or not.

Quote:

If you don't want to bother, so be it. It's YOUR appreciation of Satanism (and of life) that will be impoverished as a result, not mine. But don't try to out-dogma me, thank you.




And where do i come into the picture in this?
Just because you cannot see the points i was trying to make.
Dont you dare try and make this personal or question my quality of life or my choices. You know knothing about me.

Appreciate Satanism?
i dont merely appreciate it, i LOVE it and i LIVE it and APPLY it everyday. Appreciation without application is futile and stagnating for the self or otherwise.

Out dogma you?

Again, not in the slightest, i quite simply tried to illustrate a different side of context to you which you have obvioulsy taken the defensive stance on.
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192361 - 10/07/06 02:07 AM Re: Satanism with do to everything has Art! Reply terrible! [Re: Malachi]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

abstract nouns




= not thinking about what your words mean when you say them. Please look up "metaphor" and "discrepancy". With what was my remark discrepant? In what way is whatever you're talking about literally meat or a tone, even abstractly? How is "meat" or "tone" abstract without being metaphorical -- or worse, metaphors so old they've become cliches?

Don't bother answering. I don't expect it would be reasonable.

Quote:

A known pedophile gently salivating whilst asking someone as to the whereabouts and haunts of neighbourhood children is also asking a legitimate question.




Incoherent and disingenuous attempt to fudge the meaning of "legitimate".

My assessment: Respondent unwilling to admit to a poorly thought out comment. Getting defensive. Prognosis: Unlikely to formulate a reasonable reply or admit to any fault. Recommended treatment: Terminate conversation.
_________________________
reprobate

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#192362 - 10/07/06 02:11 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: tekku]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Dont you think i dont know that?




Frankly, I wonder. You certainly don't seem to have thought ABOUT it when you answered.

Quote:

Not in the slightest, you completely missed the point i was trying to make.




Did I.

Quote:

Out dogma you?

Again, not in the slightest, i quite simply tried to illustrate a different side of context to you which you have obvioulsy taken the defensive stance on.




No, I recognize sloganeering when I see it.

My assessment: Subject becomes defensive instead of critically evaluating past behavior. Prognosis: Unlikely to admit fault. Recommended treatment: Discontinue conversation. Good day, miss.
_________________________
reprobate

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#192363 - 10/07/06 02:18 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
I think you both made good points.

tekku points out that one Satanists preference of literature and finding inherent Satanic qualities of that piece does not necessarily represent the whole.

I agree there.

reprobate points out that there are many aspects of Satanism that he finds in said literature and that the fun for him is all in making connections and developing a broader perspective of his Satanic worldview.

I agree there as well.


Edited by Drimlybunk (10/07/06 02:19 AM)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#192364 - 10/07/06 02:27 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

Frankly, I wonder. You certainly don't seem to have thought ABOUT it when you answered.




I thought about it.
however your failure to request a clarification on what you didnt understand and to respond with slandering and putting down my opinion and taking a defensive stance, where no negativity was directed at you in the first place totally childish.

Quote:

Did I




Completely

Quote:

No, I recognize sloganeering when I see it.
My assessment: Subject becomes defensive instead of critically evaluating past behavior. Prognosis: Unlikely to admit fault. Recommended treatment: Discontinue conversation. Good day, miss.




Sloganeering?
Not in the slightest, its called debating and discussing and there are no absolutes here of who is right or wrong, just a difference of opinions, however you seem to fail to understand that and are trying to enforce your view.

Im not being defensive, im quite open to communicating and analysing different aspects of all this without letting my emotions guard my decisions.

Dont play with fire if you cant handle the heat.

Goodbye Sir, i bid you well
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192365 - 10/07/06 11:45 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: tekku]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Dont play with fire if you cant handle the heat.




This was too rich to let slide.

What heat is that, miss?

What is it you do for a living again?

I have a great deal of respect for chefs and for musicians.

But you don't know a whole lot about me, or what heat I can or cannot handle.

If critical scrutiny of my arguments is heat, miss, I live in Hell itself. It's what I do for a living.

Again, you give me the canard of "no absolute right or wrong" (another slogan, and not so commonplace in this forum as you may think). I find it quite ironic, given your original remark:

Quote:

Knowing whether certain individuals find William Blakes writing stimulating has NOTHING to do with Satanism




NOTHING. All caps. Only individual taste.

But of course, not absolutely nothing, right? Not absolutely "only"? Because there's no absolute right or wrong here, you say.

Hmmm....

What, in your estimation, is "nothing" if not absolute?

Wouldn't anything between nothing and anything be something?

And isn't that what I said?

And isn't that NOT what you said? Because "something" and "nothing" are not the same thing. Or are you telling me they are?

Maybe you're telling me that I don't understand the meaning of the word "NOTHING" (all caps)?

Or is it possible, at all, that maybe you misspoke? I don't want to say, "because you were joining the bandwagon of slamming some out of place Internet traveller". I don't want to say, "You based your response on presumed connotations" (without asking clarification, eg. for "population", which is an utterly neutral word perfectly apt for describing, say, Citizens of an Infernal Empire - in spite of your apparent insistence on asking clarifications before calling someone on anything) rather than the denotation of the question. I don't want to say it, but you don't leave me much room to interpret your words more charitably. "Herd behavior"? Because "There's no such thing as a Satanic community"? And wasn't the substance of your reply that taste is purely subjective because it's nothing more than "personal indulgance" [sic]? I see a lot of Satanic slogans but not a lot of Satanic thought here.

I'm not saying you are not a Satanist. I am saying your response was hasty and, as a result, does not reflect the Satanic position on this issue.

Satanism is the FIRST religion in history to have art and aesthetics as one of its PRIMARY elements. One's taste in art and literature is NOT indifferent from a Satanic perspective; it isn't merely "personal", but largely indicative. As I said previously, there are certain thoughts, feelings, attitudes and values that are central to Satanism, that find their expression in great art; and approaching the work of those artists DOES give insight into those thoughts, feelings, attitudes, and values.

You said it gives NONE. I said it gives SOME. These two theses are absolutely distinct; there is no middle term. So which is right to attribute to Satanism, and which wrong? Which is better grounded in Satanism? Or do you think they're both equally wrong? They can't be both equally right.

Now, whether Blake in particular is a good example of a Satanic precursor - that's debatable. He's a very ambiguous kind of guy, and he uses Christian and anti-Christian tropes with equal comfort. But your response didn't have anything to do with anything in Blake's works in particular; you rested your case on an alleged pure subjectivity of artistic appreciation, which I suggested was naive and ill-informed.

I find it very telling that you started to pose and obfuscate ("you completely missed the point" - Now do you still think I missed it?) rather than acknowledge you may have misspoke.

Please bring what heat you might.
_________________________
reprobate

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#192366 - 10/07/06 11:54 AM Your going to ruin it! [Re: Drimlybunk]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
SHHHHHHHHH! I want to see who makes the bigger ass of themselves in this lame pissing contest.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#192367 - 10/07/06 02:15 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Jack_Lantern]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I never claimed to be above making an ass of myself on the Internet from time to time.
_________________________
reprobate

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#192368 - 10/07/06 02:31 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: reprobate]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#192369 - 10/07/06 02:51 PM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You


I thank you for making me laugh.

I cannot believe you are taking this so damn seriously & personally!
Grow up!

I dont need to justify myself to you
I gave my opinion and have made an effort to clearly convey my thoughts on the matter in the context that i saw it in.
Pure and simple and if you cant understand that, then sir, i cant help you

You are no one to judge or to tell me how i should think,speak/write or express myself.

Had you approached the matter like a calm and rational adult and simply asked me to further clarify what i said and why i said it, then by all means, i would have obliged.

Instead you have gotten your knickers in a knot and have embarked on a tirade of verbal diarrhoea of why your view on the matter is the only right one and ploughed on to decry not only me and my thoughts of the subject at hand in this topic, but also that of another poster.
I have no need or want to argue with you and take this to the levels that you are trying to take it to.

When you get off your high horse, learn to see past your own closed box of thoughts and learn a little bit of respect, then i shall gladly explain to you the broader and finer context of what i was trying to initially convey to you, that you have missed on the grander of scales.

Until then, take your own advice and stay out of my way.

So once again sir, i bid you a good day and goodbye
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192370 - 10/07/06 03:36 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: reprobate]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
I have quite enjoyed reading both sides.
Both made valid points, but I tend to think that reprobate has had the upper hand in this 'pissing match'. What's more, is he's not above reproach and is willing to admit that he too (like us all) Can possibly make an ass of ourselves on the internet (ME? GUILTY).

In this such case I don't believe that he has. I felt he conveyed his thoughts with very well thought out words and tend to agree with most of them.

I'm not a Blake fan. Not in the slightest, but I do believe that art has MUCH to do with Satanism be it in paint, music, or literature. Actually it has much to do about EVERYTHING in Satanism.

We are all our own gods, and we all appreciate art on different levels and in different forms. I enjoy music a great deal more than canvas, however, I enjoy literature a great deal more than canvas. You get my point. To say that art/literature/music has NOTHING to do with Satanism is a bit off base.

I don't wish to join this pissing match but thought I'd at the very least state how I feel on the subject matter.

It's so easy to pick on Mary's little lamb (I mean he has given just cause after viewing his other post), but on the issue of literature and art he did ask a valid question. Who would have thought???????
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#192371 - 10/07/06 03:56 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Evil_Eve]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
I don't think the issue is whether or not art has anything to do with Satanism, I think everyone agrees it does to some extent, but to do with this quote;
Quote:

it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.



which can be interpreted in differant ways.

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#192372 - 10/07/06 04:07 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Mr Sam]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

I don't think the issue is whether or not art has anything to do with Satanism, I think everyone agrees it does to some extent, but to do with this quote;
Quote:

it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.



which can be interpreted in differant ways.




That is yes, open to debate, on that I do agree.

HS!
Eve
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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