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#192343 - 10/05/06 10:22 PM William Blake
Broken_Scale Offline


Registered: 09/25/06
Posts: 9
I have read many things about Satanism, read the bible written by LaVey, and have even gone through many websites. One thing that I have not seen very many references to, if I have seen even more than one is William Blake. When I put his name into a previous post, I started to wonder if his works are treasured and read by the Satanic population.

My question is how many of you know of him, and what are your thoughts. This may seem like a stupid or pointless question (yes, there are such things) to many of you, but it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.

[Edit] After many criticisms by the members of this forum, I have realized I have not worded my question tactfully enough. I apologize for this, but I am not going to change my words because it may be misread as a sign of weakness. [Edit]


Edited by Sheep (10/06/06 06:31 PM)
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#192344 - 10/05/06 11:37 PM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
Malachi Offline


Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Dallas, TX, USA
I find it a tad queer that knowledge of a notoriously celebrated
English artist, regardless of the tone and meat of his expressed ideas, could somehow grant one a more intimate, personable understanding of Satanism, much less an understanding of the alien few who find within its tenets home. It appears to me you're on a too-often treaded path to obtain information by which to craft a needless generalization. It matters not that I, another, or the sum of this noble forum find Blake's work to be intriguing or otherwise. We are not a swelling, amalgamated mass, and one Satanists' gold may very well to another Satanist be mere pewter. The very mention of the term "Satanic Population" in your post blatantly suggests the idea of a wholesale herd-culture, and transparently betrays your intentions regarding such a question. There is a wealth of information regarding Satanism and its practices on the internet, and can be easily obtained starting here . Any further ignorance is without excuse. Dr. Lavey's The Satanic Bible is the most complete and perfect of all starting points, and should your desire to become familiar with Satanism be an honest one, it should be purchased immediately without hesitation.
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#192345 - 10/05/06 11:44 PM Excellent Reply! [Re: Malachi]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
That was so elqouent! I doubt it could have been said better!
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#192346 - 10/06/06 01:52 AM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
The answers are out there if only you choose to look for them.
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#192347 - 10/06/06 03:27 AM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
I highly doubt that you have read The Satanic Bible or any of the information on the CoS website due to your repeated mindless questions and view that we are "followers".

Satanists are individuals in every sense of the word and more so "rational hedonists" with varying interests.

Knowing whether certain individuals find William Blakes writing stimulating has NOTHING to do with Satanism, it only shows their personal tastes in Literature.

If you have read The Satanic Bible and all the other info from the CoS website, and you still dont get it, then you never will.

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That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

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#192348 - 10/06/06 07:44 AM Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: Malachi]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I find it a tad queer that knowledge of a notoriously celebrated
English artist, regardless of the tone and meat of his expressed ideas, could somehow grant one a more intimate, personable understanding of Satanism




This is an evasion and a Phillistine's answer.

It is ENTIRELY appropriate for someone to ask whether Satanists have taste in art.

It is ESPECIALLY appropriate when the artist under consideration was also a poet who expressed Satanic ideas long before Anton LaVey penned the Satanic Bible.

I urge anyone who replied asking what Blake has to do with Satanism, to read "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell". (In a full color facsimile if you can find it. Dover publishes a pocket edition for under $10.)

Asking why Satanists should read Blake is like asking why they should read Nietzsche, Spinoza, Feuerbach, Foucault, Freud, Jung, Reich...; G B Shaw, H G Wells, Jack London, Shirley Jackson.... Why they should watch Blue Velvet, Blade Runner, Metropolis....
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#192349 - 10/06/06 09:37 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Quote:

It is ENTIRELY appropriate for someone to ask whether Satanists have taste in art.




Ah, I honestly did not perceive the original posters question this way. I got caught up on the word "followers" and the inference that Blake, or what others thought of him, would somehow help this chap understand something he couldn't by reading the Satanic Bible. I see your point though. Thank you for the recommended reading.

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#192350 - 10/06/06 10:27 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
Malachi Offline


Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Dallas, TX, USA



Quote:

It is ENTIRELY appropriate for someone to ask whether Satanists have taste in art.




While I do enthusiastically give validity to the above statement, the original query involved not art in such a broad, encompassing term. The original query cited a very particular artist, not art, and in its ultimate context provides a general outline of the author's agenda. I could best express my interpretation of this agenda through the following query : "What do most Satanists have for breakfast?"

Quote:

I urge anyone who replied asking what Blake has to do with Satanism, to read "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell". (In a full color facsimile if you can find it. Dover publishes a pocket edition for under $10.)




"Till a system was formed, which some took advantage of & enslav'd the vulgar by attempting to realize or abstract the mental deities from their objects: thus began Priesthood;
Choosing forms of worship from poetic tales.
And at length they pronounc'd that the Gods had order'd such things.
Thus men forgot that All deities reside in the human breast."
- William Blake, The Marriage Of Heaven And Hell

By virtue of the inclusion of the above prose, I freely admit Blake's works are certainly of an intelligent nature and could be seen as a bastion of pre-Satanic thought. However, your usage of "to do with" seems rather strong, as knowledge of Blake's work could certainly provide a realized individual with a sense of familiarity, but ultimately isn't necessarily required for a clear understanding of Satanism.


"Asking why Satanists should read Blake is like asking why they should read Nietzsche, Spinoza, Feuerbach, Foucault, Freud, Jung, Reich...; G B Shaw, H G Wells, Jack London, Shirley Jackson.... Why they should watch Blue Velvet, Blade Runner, Metropolis....


"

The original question wasn't "why", but "do". It was never suggested that they should read, but rather if they were already familiar with the work. I would never give an answer suggesting that it was improper to read and acquire knowledge, as the doing of such would constitute great ignorance of not only Satanism, but Life. I saw a question that sought to acquire a generic means of classification in the terms of herd behaviour and responded accordingly. Were the question as you perceived to be, in this case a query of the Satanic view of art and philosophy as a whole, I would have responded much differently.
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#192351 - 10/06/06 12:58 PM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: Malachi]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I saw a question that sought to acquire a generic means of classification in the terms of herd behaviour and responded accordingly.




Asking the unknown be compared to the known is not "herd behavior", it's basic pedagogy. Get real.

What you said was:

Quote:

I find it a tad queer that knowledge of a notoriously celebrated
English artist, regardless of the tone and meat of his expressed ideas, could somehow grant one a more intimate, personable understanding of Satanism




And what I'm saying is, it isn't "queer" at all, exactly because of the "tone and meat" of his ideas. (What a mixed metaphor. Maybe it would do you some good to read a bit more poetry.)

It's the whole reason the Church of Satan has a recommended reading list -- nor is the whole range of pre-Satanic thought, or thought complementary to Satanims, covered by that list. Satanism requires study: that includes studying art and literature well beyond the scope of what Anton LaVey wrote. Blake is as good a place as any to start.

I couldn't care less whether this connection actually helps Mr. "Sheep", who's already drawn ample scrutiny upon his motives. Whatever else he may have said or asked, this at least was a legitimate question, and you do us all a disservice by answering as you did.


Edited by reprobate (10/06/06 01:35 PM)
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#192352 - 10/06/06 01:47 PM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Yes, I enjoy many of William Blake's work. Why do you honor William Blake by giving his full name, and yet you do not show the same respect for Anton Szandor LaVey?
Are you a masochist?
Are you here only for that reason?


Edited by Tier_Instinct (10/06/06 01:54 PM)

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#192353 - 10/06/06 03:19 PM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
WolfMoon Offline


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 735
The Marriage of Heaven and Hell is an extremely Satanic work. There is also an article about this in the last issue of the Black Flame.

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#192354 - 10/06/06 04:19 PM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

I urge anyone who replied asking what Blake has to do with Satanism, to read "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell".




To clarfiy my response to the little lost sheeps question...

A Satanists personal taste in Literature (whether it expresses Satanic Ideals or not), does not constitute nor warrant the generalisations that Mr Sheep had put forth.

Mr Lambchops question was a double edged sword by first asking:

(1)How many Satanists had heard of and/or read William Blake's work and who treasures it amongst the Satanic "population".

Upfront i also took that to imply the Satanic "community" and I would hardly make the call that all Satanists in the world post on this message board let alone that every Satanist has read William Blake in the first place to warrant the pre-supposition of "population" when asking that question in the first place.

(2) He then goes on to state that in order for HIM to understand Satanism and "it's followers" he needed an answer to that question.

Again...as i stated in my first post in response to him, had he actually read the Satanic Bible and all available info from the CoS website, he would know that we are anything but "followers".

Also, how in sweet lucifers name are you supposed to, in all seriousness grasp a more intimate understanding of the tenets of Satanism and of the globally dispersed individuals with varying interests and lives, who have aligned to Satanism by knowing who has read and holds in high regards the works of William Blake or any other author for that matter?

Personally i find that suggestion not only rather comical but ridiculous!

Also in regards to your statement about what a Satanist "should" read or watch. I am in complete disagreement.

Whilst you have provided a nice list of authors etc which would be of special "interest" and suggested reading to a Satanist.
I would be inclined to say that apart from the obvious, the only things that a Satanist "SHOULD" read or watch would be anything that would grant him/her pure personal indulgance as they so choose.

If we start writing down and arguing over what a Satanist should or should not read, watch or adhere to (again aside from the obvious), then we might as well just shoot ourselves in the foot.
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192355 - 10/06/06 06:03 PM Re: William Blake [Re: Broken_Scale]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2208
Quote:

I have read many things about Satanism, read the bible written by LaVey, and have even gone through many websites.




Quote:

Like I said I am not a Satanist, and I probably might not become one.




What is this guy still doing here?

HS?
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#192356 - 10/06/06 06:08 PM One more... [Re: Broken_Scale]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

One thing that I have not seen very many references to, if I have seen even more than one is William Blake. When I put his name into a previous post, I started to wonder if his works are treasured and read by the Satanic population.




Ok, Spongebob Smartypants.... if you're so into Blake, have YOU seen 20/20 Blake?
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#192357 - 10/06/06 09:39 PM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: tekku]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Also, how in sweet lucifers name are you supposed to, in all seriousness grasp a more intimate understanding of the tenets of Satanism and of the globally dispersed individuals with varying interests and lives, who have aligned to Satanism by knowing who has read and holds in high regards the works of William Blake or any other author for that matter?

Personally i find that suggestion not only rather comical but ridiculous!




Ridicule away. "Listen to the fool's reproach; it is a kingly title!" There is much more to Satanism than its tenets. There is also its spirit, and its aesthetic.

Quote:

Also in regards to your statement about what a Satanist "should" read or watch. I am in complete disagreement.

Whilst you have provided a nice list of authors etc which would be of special "interest" and suggested reading to a Satanist.
I would be inclined to say that apart from the obvious, the only things that a Satanist "SHOULD" read or watch would be anything that would grant him/her pure personal indulgance as they so choose.




Ah, the old canard of anythinggoesism.

The fact is that there are thoughts, feelings, attitudes, and values underlying Satanism, that may be better or worse realized in art and literature. Art that embodies those feelings and values, and which does so well, CAN enrich your understanding of Satanism -- IF you take the time and energy to learn from them.

If you don't want to bother, so be it. It's YOUR appreciation of Satanism (and of life) that will be impoverished as a result, not mine. But don't try to out-dogma me, thank you.
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#192358 - 10/06/06 10:45 PM Re: Satanism with do to everything has Art! Reply terrible! [Re: reprobate]
Malachi Offline


Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Dallas, TX, USA
Quote:

And what I'm saying is, it isn't "queer" at all, exactly because of the "tone and meat" of his ideas. (What a mixed metaphor. Maybe it would do you some good to read a bit more poetry.)




As it happens, I rather do have the inclination for a bit of poetry at the moment. While I ingest the prescribed prose, I feel it pertinent to point out a discrepancy in your previous assertion. The aforementioned "tone and meat" do not actually comprise a metaphor at all, much less a mixed one. Both are independent words and belong to the lovely genus of abstract nouns. Perhaps you'd do well to make lengthy use of a Thesaurus.


Quote:

I couldn't care less whether this connection actually helps Mr. "Sheep", who's already drawn ample scrutiny upon his motives. Whatever else he may have said or asked, this at least was a legitimate question, and you do us all a disservice by answering as you did.




A known pedophile gently salivating whilst asking someone as to the whereabouts and haunts of neighbourhood children is also asking a legitimate question. Should such a person grant him the sought-after knowledge simply because the question posed was a legitimate one? I completely realize this is an extreme comparison, but I feel it illustrates my point of obvious agenda.
He further compounds this with an impassioned plea that despite having read the very basic framework of Satanism, he still cannot comprehend it. This is largely conducive of stupidity, and the greatest help that could be afforded him is an extended dissertation on the merits of running with scissors.
Any question posed by such an individual should be viciously greeted in a storm of hostility. Anything less would entail a far greater disservice.
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#192359 - 10/07/06 01:41 AM I am still waiting for your answer. [Re: Broken_Scale]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12572
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Are you open to learning what Satanism is actually about?

Are you open to the possiblity of becoming a member of the Church of Satan in the future?

Yes or no.

Thank you.

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#192360 - 10/07/06 01:45 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

There is much more to Satanism than its tenets. There is also its spirit, and its aesthetic.




Dont you think i dont know that?

Quote:

Ah, the old canard of anythinggoesism..




Not in the slightest, you completely missed the point i was trying to make.

Quote:

The fact is that there are thoughts, feelings, attitudes, and values underlying Satanism, that may be better or worse realized in art and literature. Art that embodies those feelings and values, and which does so well, CAN enrich your understanding of Satanism -- IF you take the time and energy to learn from them.[/qoute]

And i will completely agree with you there, however as was pertaining to the Sheeps question, it is still irrelevant in the broad sense. You cannot box in and generalise a religion/philosophy or the people that align to it, just by their "appreciation" of certain artworks or literature, regardless of Satanic Ideals expressed within those artworks or not.

Quote:

If you don't want to bother, so be it. It's YOUR appreciation of Satanism (and of life) that will be impoverished as a result, not mine. But don't try to out-dogma me, thank you.




And where do i come into the picture in this?
Just because you cannot see the points i was trying to make.
Dont you dare try and make this personal or question my quality of life or my choices. You know knothing about me.

Appreciate Satanism?
i dont merely appreciate it, i LOVE it and i LIVE it and APPLY it everyday. Appreciation without application is futile and stagnating for the self or otherwise.

Out dogma you?

Again, not in the slightest, i quite simply tried to illustrate a different side of context to you which you have obvioulsy taken the defensive stance on.
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192361 - 10/07/06 02:07 AM Re: Satanism with do to everything has Art! Reply terrible! [Re: Malachi]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

abstract nouns




= not thinking about what your words mean when you say them. Please look up "metaphor" and "discrepancy". With what was my remark discrepant? In what way is whatever you're talking about literally meat or a tone, even abstractly? How is "meat" or "tone" abstract without being metaphorical -- or worse, metaphors so old they've become cliches?

Don't bother answering. I don't expect it would be reasonable.

Quote:

A known pedophile gently salivating whilst asking someone as to the whereabouts and haunts of neighbourhood children is also asking a legitimate question.




Incoherent and disingenuous attempt to fudge the meaning of "legitimate".

My assessment: Respondent unwilling to admit to a poorly thought out comment. Getting defensive. Prognosis: Unlikely to formulate a reasonable reply or admit to any fault. Recommended treatment: Terminate conversation.
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#192362 - 10/07/06 02:11 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: tekku]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Dont you think i dont know that?




Frankly, I wonder. You certainly don't seem to have thought ABOUT it when you answered.

Quote:

Not in the slightest, you completely missed the point i was trying to make.




Did I.

Quote:

Out dogma you?

Again, not in the slightest, i quite simply tried to illustrate a different side of context to you which you have obvioulsy taken the defensive stance on.




No, I recognize sloganeering when I see it.

My assessment: Subject becomes defensive instead of critically evaluating past behavior. Prognosis: Unlikely to admit fault. Recommended treatment: Discontinue conversation. Good day, miss.
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reprobate

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#192363 - 10/07/06 02:18 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
I think you both made good points.

tekku points out that one Satanists preference of literature and finding inherent Satanic qualities of that piece does not necessarily represent the whole.

I agree there.

reprobate points out that there are many aspects of Satanism that he finds in said literature and that the fun for him is all in making connections and developing a broader perspective of his Satanic worldview.

I agree there as well.


Edited by Drimlybunk (10/07/06 02:19 AM)
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#192364 - 10/07/06 02:27 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

Frankly, I wonder. You certainly don't seem to have thought ABOUT it when you answered.




I thought about it.
however your failure to request a clarification on what you didnt understand and to respond with slandering and putting down my opinion and taking a defensive stance, where no negativity was directed at you in the first place totally childish.

Quote:

Did I




Completely

Quote:

No, I recognize sloganeering when I see it.
My assessment: Subject becomes defensive instead of critically evaluating past behavior. Prognosis: Unlikely to admit fault. Recommended treatment: Discontinue conversation. Good day, miss.




Sloganeering?
Not in the slightest, its called debating and discussing and there are no absolutes here of who is right or wrong, just a difference of opinions, however you seem to fail to understand that and are trying to enforce your view.

Im not being defensive, im quite open to communicating and analysing different aspects of all this without letting my emotions guard my decisions.

Dont play with fire if you cant handle the heat.

Goodbye Sir, i bid you well
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192365 - 10/07/06 11:45 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: tekku]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Dont play with fire if you cant handle the heat.




This was too rich to let slide.

What heat is that, miss?

What is it you do for a living again?

I have a great deal of respect for chefs and for musicians.

But you don't know a whole lot about me, or what heat I can or cannot handle.

If critical scrutiny of my arguments is heat, miss, I live in Hell itself. It's what I do for a living.

Again, you give me the canard of "no absolute right or wrong" (another slogan, and not so commonplace in this forum as you may think). I find it quite ironic, given your original remark:

Quote:

Knowing whether certain individuals find William Blakes writing stimulating has NOTHING to do with Satanism




NOTHING. All caps. Only individual taste.

But of course, not absolutely nothing, right? Not absolutely "only"? Because there's no absolute right or wrong here, you say.

Hmmm....

What, in your estimation, is "nothing" if not absolute?

Wouldn't anything between nothing and anything be something?

And isn't that what I said?

And isn't that NOT what you said? Because "something" and "nothing" are not the same thing. Or are you telling me they are?

Maybe you're telling me that I don't understand the meaning of the word "NOTHING" (all caps)?

Or is it possible, at all, that maybe you misspoke? I don't want to say, "because you were joining the bandwagon of slamming some out of place Internet traveller". I don't want to say, "You based your response on presumed connotations" (without asking clarification, eg. for "population", which is an utterly neutral word perfectly apt for describing, say, Citizens of an Infernal Empire - in spite of your apparent insistence on asking clarifications before calling someone on anything) rather than the denotation of the question. I don't want to say it, but you don't leave me much room to interpret your words more charitably. "Herd behavior"? Because "There's no such thing as a Satanic community"? And wasn't the substance of your reply that taste is purely subjective because it's nothing more than "personal indulgance" [sic]? I see a lot of Satanic slogans but not a lot of Satanic thought here.

I'm not saying you are not a Satanist. I am saying your response was hasty and, as a result, does not reflect the Satanic position on this issue.

Satanism is the FIRST religion in history to have art and aesthetics as one of its PRIMARY elements. One's taste in art and literature is NOT indifferent from a Satanic perspective; it isn't merely "personal", but largely indicative. As I said previously, there are certain thoughts, feelings, attitudes and values that are central to Satanism, that find their expression in great art; and approaching the work of those artists DOES give insight into those thoughts, feelings, attitudes, and values.

You said it gives NONE. I said it gives SOME. These two theses are absolutely distinct; there is no middle term. So which is right to attribute to Satanism, and which wrong? Which is better grounded in Satanism? Or do you think they're both equally wrong? They can't be both equally right.

Now, whether Blake in particular is a good example of a Satanic precursor - that's debatable. He's a very ambiguous kind of guy, and he uses Christian and anti-Christian tropes with equal comfort. But your response didn't have anything to do with anything in Blake's works in particular; you rested your case on an alleged pure subjectivity of artistic appreciation, which I suggested was naive and ill-informed.

I find it very telling that you started to pose and obfuscate ("you completely missed the point" - Now do you still think I missed it?) rather than acknowledge you may have misspoke.

Please bring what heat you might.
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#192366 - 10/07/06 11:54 AM Your going to ruin it! [Re: Drimlybunk]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
SHHHHHHHHH! I want to see who makes the bigger ass of themselves in this lame pissing contest.
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#192367 - 10/07/06 02:15 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Jack_Lantern]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I never claimed to be above making an ass of myself on the Internet from time to time.
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reprobate

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#192368 - 10/07/06 02:31 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: reprobate]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
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"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#192369 - 10/07/06 02:51 PM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You


I thank you for making me laugh.

I cannot believe you are taking this so damn seriously & personally!
Grow up!

I dont need to justify myself to you
I gave my opinion and have made an effort to clearly convey my thoughts on the matter in the context that i saw it in.
Pure and simple and if you cant understand that, then sir, i cant help you

You are no one to judge or to tell me how i should think,speak/write or express myself.

Had you approached the matter like a calm and rational adult and simply asked me to further clarify what i said and why i said it, then by all means, i would have obliged.

Instead you have gotten your knickers in a knot and have embarked on a tirade of verbal diarrhoea of why your view on the matter is the only right one and ploughed on to decry not only me and my thoughts of the subject at hand in this topic, but also that of another poster.
I have no need or want to argue with you and take this to the levels that you are trying to take it to.

When you get off your high horse, learn to see past your own closed box of thoughts and learn a little bit of respect, then i shall gladly explain to you the broader and finer context of what i was trying to initially convey to you, that you have missed on the grander of scales.

Until then, take your own advice and stay out of my way.

So once again sir, i bid you a good day and goodbye
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192370 - 10/07/06 03:36 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: reprobate]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
I have quite enjoyed reading both sides.
Both made valid points, but I tend to think that reprobate has had the upper hand in this 'pissing match'. What's more, is he's not above reproach and is willing to admit that he too (like us all) Can possibly make an ass of ourselves on the internet (ME? GUILTY).

In this such case I don't believe that he has. I felt he conveyed his thoughts with very well thought out words and tend to agree with most of them.

I'm not a Blake fan. Not in the slightest, but I do believe that art has MUCH to do with Satanism be it in paint, music, or literature. Actually it has much to do about EVERYTHING in Satanism.

We are all our own gods, and we all appreciate art on different levels and in different forms. I enjoy music a great deal more than canvas, however, I enjoy literature a great deal more than canvas. You get my point. To say that art/literature/music has NOTHING to do with Satanism is a bit off base.

I don't wish to join this pissing match but thought I'd at the very least state how I feel on the subject matter.

It's so easy to pick on Mary's little lamb (I mean he has given just cause after viewing his other post), but on the issue of literature and art he did ask a valid question. Who would have thought???????
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#192371 - 10/07/06 03:56 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Evil_Eve]
Mr Sam Offline


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 776
Loc: Somewhere in the UK.
I don't think the issue is whether or not art has anything to do with Satanism, I think everyone agrees it does to some extent, but to do with this quote;
Quote:

it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.



which can be interpreted in differant ways.

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#192372 - 10/07/06 04:07 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Mr Sam]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

I don't think the issue is whether or not art has anything to do with Satanism, I think everyone agrees it does to some extent, but to do with this quote;
Quote:

it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.



which can be interpreted in differant ways.




That is yes, open to debate, on that I do agree.

HS!
Eve
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#192373 - 10/07/06 04:11 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Mr Sam]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

I don't think the issue is whether or not art has anything to do with Satanism, I think everyone agrees it does to some extent, but to do with this quote;
Quote:

it is something that would greatly help me to understand Satanism and its followers even more.



which can be interpreted in differant ways.




exactly
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192374 - 10/08/06 10:32 AM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: tekku]
Elend Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 355
Loc: Netherlands
Reprobate - 1
tekku - 0

Thanks for the laugh!

Ps. I appreciate Mr. Blake very much as I do all people who can conjure with words.
But does it have to have Satanic qualities in order to be appreciated (more)? I don't think so.

Art is Art.
The rest is just semantics.

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#192375 - 10/08/06 10:50 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: reprobate]
Lillith Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Germany
Quote:

It is ENTIRELY appropriate for someone to ask whether Satanists have taste in art.

It is ESPECIALLY appropriate when the artist under consideration was also a poet who expressed Satanic ideas long before Anton LaVey penned the Satanic Bible.

Asking why Satanists should read Blake is like asking why they should read Nietzsche, Spinoza, Feuerbach, Foucault, Freud, Jung, Reich...; G B Shaw, H G Wells, Jack London, Shirley Jackson.... Why they should watch Blue Velvet, Blade Runner, Metropolis....




I agree with you in the context that Satanism is largely based on aesthetics and art. Anton LaVey read/watched/listened to many of these authors/musicians/artists/movies while brainstorming his ideas on the philosophy of Satanism. The Church of Satan by Blanche Barton has a list at the back of movies, books and music that Anton LaVey has suggested that other Satanists might find interesting. Not because it is required reading, but because LaVey thought that other Satanists could benefit from these works as he had.
_________________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever; Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean

"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell” - Oscar Wilde

“If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness” - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“The devil himself had probably redesigned Hell in the light of information he had gained from observing airport layouts” - Anthony Price

"The only difference between saints and sinners is that every saint has a past while every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

"Man is certainly stark mad: He cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens." – Montaigne

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#192376 - 10/08/06 08:57 PM Re: Your going to ruin it! [Re: Elend]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

Thanks for the laugh!.




im glad you got as much of a laugh out if it as i did
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#192377 - 10/09/06 10:08 AM Re: Terrible reply! Art has everything to do with Satanism! [Re: Malachi]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Quote:

Quote:

It is ENTIRELY appropriate for someone to ask whether Satanists have taste in art.




The original query cited a very particular artist, not art, and in its ultimate context provides a general outline of the author's agenda. I could best express my interpretation of this agenda through the following query : "What do most Satanists have for breakfast?"




And then…the exacting quote:

Quote:

Choosing forms of worship from poetic tales.
And at length they pronounc'd that the Gods had order'd such things.




Have to say that was excellent reading between the lines.

It does make a difference why and how a question is being made on the first place. May it be presented on a silver plate.
Wearing Blake or wearing Black, who cares?

I ask myself why would anyone choose to enhance its stature sitting on top of Gulliver.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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