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#193914 - 10/26/06 09:35 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Minus]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193915 - 10/26/06 10:38 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Drimlybunk]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Quote:

Just for the record... I HATE "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits.




The funny thing about the straight edge movement, is that it is completely off-base from it's founding ideals. It was not a movement of abstinence. It was a movement of self-control. If you smoked a cigarette, fine, just don't get yourself addicted to smoking. If you had a beer, fine, just don't get drunk. It seems like everyone distorted it so it would better fit the sunday school punk rocker profile. I would actually akin the original ideals more to those of Satanism. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that was the actual influence…


On topic, Mason Rust, that was indeed an amazing post. People too often contend that it is their right to partake in what they wish, when in fact, the truth is quite the opposite in most countries.
_________________________
Mein Leben, Meine Chance

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#193916 - 10/26/06 08:53 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
A) It's called Denial
B) Go to Skid Row or a Rehab and see the result of other's who engaged in the "experiment" and see what happened to them.
If you feel that must try to control your drinking then you probably have a problem, people who drink "normally" don't have to control their drinking.
When you drink Alcohol, a chemical reaction will take place, it is inevitable, so trying to control it is as fruitless as controlling Diarrhea.
External pressures has nothing to do with how alcohol affects the body. You know that you drink, and if you drink enough you get drunk, that is a scientific fact did you honestly think you could drink alcohol and not get drunk?
This makes as much sense as someone that is 30 yearas old sticking their hand on a hot stove when they did the same thing at age 5. "Hmmm maybe I won't get burnt this time."

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#193917 - 10/28/06 06:35 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
IMMORTAL809 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 14
Loc: US
In the FWIW ctatgory, I think alcoholic beverages should be illegal. More people have died from the use of such than most other substances, it destroys families, causes permanent damage to the organs, can be severly addicting, and while true it's been around for several millenia, that doesn't mean it's OK. I too agree at some point with Svengali about the effects of pot vs alcohol. There is a problem with it though since as for right now it's illegal. It's illegal to even have traces of it in your system as it relates to employment (evil_eve). And I constantly ask why.

ANY substance can be abused. Anyone who makes recreational substances a "way of life" are indeed losers and the rest of us are better off without them in our lives. In my youth I used pot on occasion and truely enjoyed it. I'm one of those that no matter the amount, a couple puffs, a pinch in a brownie, a whole damn bag, the effect is limited. Any increased amount over the effect may extend the time but no more. I guess I've always been a "cheap date" in that regard. Everyones physiology is different. Some can't handle any of it, legal or not. I've read many studies both positive and negative regarding pot and tend to be more of a proponent than to oppose legalizing. Will I take up a cause to that end? Nope. Not my bag (no pun intended). I have enough personal causes to champion for. The "gateway to hard drugs" argument is a crutch for the uninformed and any relevence is due to how it must be aquired...illegally.

In the end, we must co-exist with society. Until things change I have no choice but to view use of such things as negative and potentially self-destructive. There's nothing "dark" about chronic drug use. Except where it must be done, and what a lie to one's self at that point. I suppose my position to not totally condemn the use of pot may be related to some of it's history, as well as the fact that it too is an organic substance that comes from the very ground WE all come from. I find it moderately angers me that society (laws) and many organized groups tend to frown upon the individual rights one has to sample, use, or simply experiance things that nature itself has provided. Does that mean all that nature provides is good? Of course not. But for some of it, moderation and self respect can go a long way in the pursuit of happiness and hedonism. Or as you put it Svengali, "...in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion."

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?


Edited by IMMORTAL809 (10/28/06 06:37 PM)

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#193918 - 10/28/06 07:36 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: IMMORTAL809]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?




There is no "Marilyn Manson version" of Satanism, there is just Satanism and Idiots trying to make the wrong size shoe fit.

It is probably hard to pick a real Satanist out of a crowd because a real Satanist is unlikely to be in the crowd.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193919 - 10/28/06 09:20 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Prometheus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1116
Loc: Germany
I enjoyed reading your reflections on this issue a lot, Magister. The argumentation is absolutely concise & outlines the problem precisely.

My understanding of Satanism has always been that it is all about being on the winner's side in all regards. Clouding one's mind with narcotic substances can be seen as the exact example for playing the loser's game, if not immediately then certainly in the long run. However, already a period of intoxicated inactivity may do to place a person into a position of severe disadvantage & might in some severe cases also have lethal consequences.

Aside from this, equating indulgence & recreational drug abuse, as those who favour this habit tend to do, appears to be a thoroughly programmed misconception. There is a point when the urge for the substance substitutes the consumer's free will. His deafened sensed are far from truly indulgent expereiences. His strategy to negate any destructive effect of the drug are precise evidence for how his sensatory abilities are dying off.

By far not the best pre-conditions to succede regarding self-preservation & thus preserving an indulgent future when there is potential for a sparkling delighful future.


_________________________

HAIL SATAN!

Prometheus











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#193920 - 10/29/06 06:21 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
IMMORTAL809 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 14
Loc: US
Quote:

Quote:

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?




There is no "Marilyn Manson version" of Satanism, there is just Satanism and Idiots trying to make the wrong size shoe fit.

It is probably hard to pick a real Satanist out of a crowd because a real Satanist is unlikely to be in the crowd.





Exactly...however I meant the version as you described, not that one exists. Thank you for your insights on the subject.

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#193921 - 10/29/06 07:01 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: IMMORTAL809]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Quote:

I suppose my position to not totally condemn the use of pot may be related to some of it's history, as well as the fact that it too is an organic substance that comes from the very ground WE all come from.




As well Arsenic, Radium, Mercury, Lead, Uranium, and countless other hazardous materials come from the ground from which we all come from. Including all drugs.

So what is your argument other than "it occurs naturally" I could name countless other naturally occurring substances that are harmful to one's health (both physiologically and psychologically) and even fatal.

There are even people who come from the ground "We all come from" that can be detrimental to one's health.

Think about it.

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#193922 - 11/13/06 11:56 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
InquiringTruth Offline


Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 14
I appreciate your post Magister.

It is amazing the multitude of posts that have been posted in time past by individuals who have tried to use Satanic Hedonism as means to justify their drug abuse. If they would only have enough comprehension to understand that the very act of drug abuse is compulsive, illegal, self-deceitful, and self-destructive.

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#290271 - 12/13/07 01:25 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: ]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290274 - 12/13/07 02:44 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
DaggerJack Offline


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 88
Loc: California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?


I can name a multitude of things to do at 2:30AM on a weekday, perks of having a complete brain in my head. I only point that out because the average "recreational" drug user's brain look like a lump of molding swiss cheese.

In fact, a drug destroyed brain is a bit like an old piece of cheese. It started out as a masterpiece of trial and error on a grand scale, but through neglect has lost all usefulness or potential to offer enjoyment to anyone, including the owner.

You used drugs, and you destroyed the most precious thing you get in this life, your mind. Weakling.
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Clever signature pending

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#290303 - 12/13/07 07:17 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Taliana Offline


Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 1217
Loc: England
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs


Wow. I think that says it all.

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#290304 - 12/13/07 07:22 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?


Copy your reply and paste it on Microsoft Office Word. Do a spell and grammar check.

Any day of the week look inside your wallet. Similar results i'm sure.



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#290308 - 12/13/07 07:46 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
 Originally Posted By: Stuki
 Quote:
Just for the record... I [color:"red"]HATE[/color] "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits. <img src="/lttd/images/graemlins/flame.gif" alt="" />


The funny thing about the straight edge movement, is that it is completely off-base from it's founding ideals. It was not a movement of abstinence. It was a movement of self-control. If you smoked a cigarette, fine, just don't get yourself addicted to smoking. If you had a beer, fine, just don't get drunk. It seems like everyone distorted it so it would better fit the sunday school punk rocker profile. I would actually akin the original ideals more to those of Satanism. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that was the actual influence…


On topic, Mason Rust, that was indeed an amazing post. People too often contend that it is their right to partake in what they wish, when in fact, the truth is quite the opposite in most countries.


The original straight edge kids (from Minor Threat to the Boston Crew) weren´t stupid righteous zealots but people who knew that in order to create something, in order to be something you had to be free from chemical (or any other kind of) dependance. They just applied that thought to their DIY ethics. And it worked.
I know 32 and 35 straight edge guys so the whole "they´re just sxe untill college" thing is pretty stupid. As any subculture it´s full of herd but, again, as any subculture it´s full of movers and shakers who talk the talk and walk the walk no matter what.


You take their shit
Stand up and fight
Fuck those rules
And show your might
But you have no guts
You'd rather get high
Take the day off
And smoke all you buy

Wasted youth by SSD


Edited by Taubmann (12/13/07 07:48 AM)
_________________________
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Kierkegaard

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#290314 - 12/13/07 08:20 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Taubmann]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
Hmmm, I should probably start writing all of these replies out on Microsoft Word, reread them, and THEN post them. But at any rate, thanks you guys, because of your generous contributions to the betterment of my life through kind words and explanations that are, quite frankly, unarguable. All of your arguments were extremely well thought out and persuasive, from the points made about my grammatical errors to…the other remarks about my grammatical errors all inspired me to completely change my views; I have now put down that hypodermic needle and am about to head off to church. Oh wait, this is the Satanic forum, not Christian, I get those two confused sometimes.
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There are no men freer than the insane

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