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#193794 - 10/13/06 10:31 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
London Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 965
Loc: The Inmost Dens
If this message is from who I think it is from, it only further reinforces my prediction that he will go the same way as Marilyn Manson.
_________________________
If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then using logic I can deduce that the friend of my friend is my enemy.

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#193795 - 10/13/06 12:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
He did give the best interview in Bowling for Columbine, for what it was worth .

He seems to be intellectually bright, perhaps, but his drug use and partying indicates that he lacks practical common sense, especially where the Satanic self-preservation instinct is concerned. This seems to happen to many performers and musicians, unfortunately, so while a lot of them create great or enjoyable material, they're often people you wouldn't like or respect in real life.

I didn't hear about the backpedaling.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193796 - 10/13/06 12:16 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

They are equally worthless in my book.

I was addressing habitual drug/alcohol users, not people who drink till they puke one weekend out of the month.

They are stupid too, but relatively harmless as long as they are unarmed and don't drive.




Yeah, stupidity is painful-- to the recipients of its outcome!

Habitual alcohol abusers are scum in my book. Especially when armed with a motorvehicle.
_________________________




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#193797 - 10/13/06 12:19 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: RandomStranger]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I recently learned in my developmental psychology class that alcohol, cigarettes, and pot are the worst things to "give" to a fetus, and, counter-intuitively, things like cocaine and heroin may be the "best," if we're talking about the duration and the seriousness of the effects overall. (However, if a woman goes off the heroin while pregnant, this will often cause her to spontaneously give birth at an early time, and THAT of course comes with a whole host of problems.)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193798 - 10/13/06 12:29 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: RandomStranger]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Having lost close family members (plural) to drunk drivers, I have strong opinions on that specific issue.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193799 - 10/13/06 01:47 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Human beings have for the most part poor self discipline, if any at all. This fact is exaggerated by the bodies attempt to achieve equilibrium which creates a dependency. Whether the equilibrium is psychological or physiological doesn't really matter. Assault the body with a stress, it will adjust, remove that stress, it will adjust. This takes a lot out of a person, and can even break the frail. It is apparent to anyone with sense that all drugs, including medical pharmaceuticals, differ in degree only, but are of the same kind.

Responsibility to the responsible applies to the "drug" question more than any other; the pursuit of pleasure is laudable, but only the most self disciplined and responsible people have the strength to pursue this pleasure, because the pleasure is fleeting, and the consequence of its pursuit is deadly! Since drugs draw such a stigma these days, and most people don't have the discipline to pursue such past times, the CoS stance on drug use and drug users is not just a highly rational policy concerning the issue, but an act of truly diabolical thought, considering the widespread drug culture full of vacuous addicts who argue that their drug hobbies does not hurt them because they are [insert nonsense here].

It also acts as just one more filter, weeding out the weak from the strong. Finding those who had the self respect and personal strength to have never touched any of it in the first place, and those who were at least intelligent enough to wake the hell up and realize the self destruction they were delivering on themselves.

As far as Marilyn Manson goes, every once in a while he makes a decent song. His best album was Antichrist Superstar, and he has gone down hill ever since. I do not even make the attempt to follow the happenings of any rock star, in my mind it is just one more dismal soap opera for the herd to live vicariously through. I agree completely that his assets do not outweigh his liabilities, and have wondered more than once why he is still tolerated as a member of the CoS. The information about him backpedaling on the matter of his affiliation should have been the final nail in that coffin. Why is this dysfunctional relationship allowed to continue?
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193800 - 10/13/06 02:21 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.

If that happens, I hope it leads to a reduction in the number of wannabes that show up around here. Too many idiots "get into" Satanism because of him. They identify more with what he put into his book than with what Doc put into his.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#193801 - 10/13/06 03:14 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
I don’t think there are two readings:

If you’re nailed to the wall you’re not free.
Addiction IS imprisonment for all that matters. You’re not indulging to anything you are being forcedly compelled to do over and over again.
Some people make the difference between free hedonism and rational hedonism, I think one goes with the other. To indulge – the hedonist utmost pleasure - means doing it at own discretion. Choose from, hence REASON from. This sounds so fucking obvious to me, I was never to question the meaning of indulgence as a bastion of freedom. Not once. That first statement caught me an open smile!

Then comes long term destruction and I’m compelled to think of it as another stupid way to devote oneself to a deity.
Ever thought of the way so many troubadours treated it? “Heroine my wife my life”? Just to mention one?
Ever though of the way recovered addicts stay hooked on recovery? How junkies feed a love-hate devotion for their drug of choice?
Their righteous lectures about what shouldn’t be done, as if they were tragically, romantically doomed to it?
It does goes with the herd mentality from voluntary arrest to the need to explain oneself through the stretched claws of an “higher power”. May that be solid, liquid or gaseous.

Now speaking about Marilyn Manson in particular.
As some others here, I also owe him my approach to Satanism. I was a regular user of a forum some of you might know, upon which I had the chance to meet quite a few interesting people and learn a lot about the purpose of his stage persona, his lyrics and co-laterally about different ways to communicate.
Well, I have to say I do sympathize with the way Marilyn Manson used his stage persona and some of his lyrics to portray some people’s mindset, namely the junky.
“Don’t like the Drugs but the Drugs Like Me “is a hack of an example of the typical mindset of a junky, blaming drugs for his own drug abuse.

My question is: Should one assume the man considers himself to be victim, just because he is portraying a victim at his own persona expense?

Could be he was doing the so called “lecture”!. Maybe he was. But as far as I know, he’s off with drug abuse for sometime now, and his staged personas are mostly caricatures.

Could one possibly stay that close to a man like LaVey and the CoS, just for the sake of publicity? I don’t think so. Surely there was mutual appreciation for some good reason.
If he did actually step back into drugs, that’s something else, but I don’t think the word betrayal remotely applies, except to himself.

I’m no hard-core fan, yet I do enjoy his art.

Have to say Mainstream FX do change people, yet, I’ tend to antagonize with gossip, most especially when it targets people whose influence is out of question.

october1560


Edited by leonor (10/13/06 03:23 PM)
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#193802 - 10/13/06 04:30 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rory_Rocketpants]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Marijuana causes psychosis, mania, schizophrenia, paranoia, and many other problems.

Would you mind citing a source on that?

I've dealt with a number of potheads, and I've never seen one who exhibited the symptoms you mention who wasn't already fucked-up to begin with.

I actually started reading some of the medical research on marijuana when my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer last year. While I did find a few isolated case-studies of "cannabis psychosis", other studies failed to replicate those findings. It's now more widely believed that although marijuana use may exacerbate certain psychological disorders, it is not a cause in and of itself.

Of course I would never ask anyone to cite a source without citing one of my own. While I was unable to find the specific case studies regarding "cannabis psychosis", here are some reponses to some other widely believed myths about marijuana use.

For the record (again), I neither use nor condone the use of marijuana. Even if it were legal, I think that there are better choices for people to make on what to do with their lives, just as I think there are better choices to be made than going out and getting shitfaced every weekend. Still, I think it's better for people to make rational choices based upon accurate information rather than taking a reactionary stance based on bullshit culled from the script of Reefer Madness.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193803 - 10/13/06 04:31 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Virus9]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10146
The paranoia part at least is almost beyond question. I've never met a secure doper.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193804 - 10/13/06 04:37 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Sigvatr Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
I am in some ways a utilitarianist. If taking a drug today for some short lived pleasure results in long term pain, then I will probably not take it.

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.
_________________________
Hail Satan, - Sigvatr

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#193805 - 10/13/06 04:48 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Most of the paranoia I've encountered in marijuana users has been based on emotional insecurities which were present even when the person wasn't high. Once again we see the exacerabation of an exisiting condition, not a root cause.

The rest were just afraid of getting busted.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193806 - 10/13/06 05:01 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1262
Loc: Behind You
Brilliant response Magister

I completely agree in all aspects, however i have a personal experience to share which i would like to hear opinions of.

I have a past business acquintance, who i used to work for as a personal chef for a time.

This woman who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons, is a very successful business woman who owns a few companies and is quite respected and active in her business and social circle, takes extreme care with her personal appearance, very intelligent in alot of areas, and is in every sense when you look at it from the outset a "responsible" woman.

However......

She chooses to at certain times for social purposes and from what i have seen in my expierence to be common practise with the "upper class" in business, to include an obscene amount of cocaine in their little parties and get togethers, quite a common practise to have lines racked up to go with your champagne as you arrive and for the duration of your stay

And it is not an addiction, purely if i may say an act of sorts just for those social purposes.

In light of what you have said Magister, i am keen to know your perspective on this ( and anyone who would like to respond to this)
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#193807 - 10/13/06 05:02 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Sorry about your loss.

I was in an accident on my motorcycle in '99 because of a drunken driver.

My anger and contempt is boundless when it comes to stupid people.
_________________________




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#193808 - 10/13/06 05:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

I am in some ways a utilitarianist. If taking a drug today for some short lived pleasure results in long term pain, then I will probably not take it.

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.




In simple terms, if you want to use illegal drugs, do it as far away from The Church of Satan as possible, and stay away.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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