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#193809 - 10/13/06 05:17 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.

"Intelligence" and "drug use" are two terms that don't go together.

If you're going to advocate drug use, you don't belong here and will be shown the door.
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Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
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#193810 - 10/13/06 05:26 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: leonor]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

My question is: Should one assume the man considers himself to be victim, just because he is portraying a victim at his own persona expense?




This is surely a question to ask him at 4am, during his acid pills party... ?

That's funny to read the word "gossip". Just to say it quickly, that guy called Twiggy corresponded with me for a while....He was maybe the "most clean guy" of that "band", if you see what I mean.

It is when the theatre becomes too real, and this is where I don't support this at all. Now if some knew Satanism thanks to him, well .... Mes condoléances ...
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#193811 - 10/13/06 05:38 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.




There is no intellegent way to use a drug, it would be like trying to intellegently slam your dick in a car door. The filter does it's magic once again.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193812 - 10/13/06 05:39 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Excellent Reply, Magister.


Quote:

Plus it is illegal, and in that grey area of "illegal but tolerated" just enough to insure that it is a common and widespread pretext for police intervention in peoples lives. I understand you are against systems of control very much. Why would you buy into an institution (drug counterculture) that was probably invented to be a reason to fuck with you?




This is a good point, and one that is not typically mentioned in such an argument. In addition to the hassle of police intervention, I would say that even recreational pot smoking can impact other aspects of one's life, in terms of reputation and employment-- two VERY important facets, which are often downplayed to justify drug use.

Quote:

Even if it were legal, it has decades of idiotic cultural baggage. Drug counterculture is the most mindless herd phenomenon since religion - why would any Satanist, or the Church of Satan for that matter, want to be associated with such a collective of idiotic losers?





It does have idiotic cultural baggage, but I disagree with that fact being a valid reason not to do something in and of itself. There are idiots in the CoS, yet I don't hesitate to associate with the organization. You yourself have a page on MySpace, which is a veritable breeding pool of idiocy, yet you are not an idiot by association. Likewise, smoking pot does not necessarily make a person a member of the "stoner" subculture. The public perception of Satanism carries a similar stigma because, like the drug subculture, the pseudo-Satanists get the most time in the melodramatic limelight.
I've known some idiotic, "Hey it's 420, dude" stoners (and yes, they are insufferable bastards) but I've also known some very intelligent people who smoke pot and do it discreetly.
My point here is that I avoid taking any generalization, no matter how common, as an absolute; Additionally, a commonplace cultural trend or tendency can only really affect those who willingly embrace and identify themselves by it.

Quote:

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about.




I couldn't agree more. Not only is he an admitted cocaine user, he is also a parasite. Many features of his "art" are stolen from others. Many of his lyrics are parroted LaVeyisms, and he used the same power symbol that the Dok used as his personal sigil(how very original!), for starters. Much of what defines Manson's sound/style can be attributed to Trent Reznor.

His backpeddling was very telling indeed, especially considering that he is the last person on Earth who has any practical need to backpeddle from a "controversial" topic.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of others (that shall remain unnamed) who are also "people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away."

In time, stratification will prune such dead leaves from the budding CoS tree.

Quote:

Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.




But... He's an Anti-Christ Superstar!


Quote:

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting, but I guess it keeps people showing up to work on time, and diverts them from confronting the existential horrors of their own meaningless existence that would otherwise drive them to overt self-destruction.




Gee, with the exception of the forementioned promptness to work, it sure sounds like "mood drugs" are simply a legal(and possibly more harmful) substitute for habitual pot or alcohol use.


Quote:

I'm all for confronting and training your inner demons, turning liabilities into advantages, instead of medicating into oblivion.




Well said. I never understood those types. If life is so horrible, then just go kill yourself. The solution is really quite simple.

Quote:

People who seek escape in mind-altering drugs should ask themselves why their predominant frame of mind is so shitty that they need to escape.




But it's so much easier to just not think at all.

Quote:

There is a difference between being disfunctional and being "Alien" in the Satanic sense of the term. One is "unter", the latter is "uber", in relation to the common stream of human waste.





That is a GREAT line, and would make a nice signature quote.


Thanks for the pleasurable read.



HS!
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193813 - 10/13/06 06:36 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
to me it is fairly simple - i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle. satanism is not about ascetism! discipline maybe, but ascetism no. discipline comes in self-mastery (the line between use and abuse). i think it is of paramount importance that one be able to manage one's use of anything, and not to be consumed or mastered by it (just as the magus must maintain control of the circle and the spirit within). once one falls into addiction, or experiences the detrimental effects of over-use, then one is losing something of themselves, and the ability to master and overcome. in a very real sense they are losing their power, their will.

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#193814 - 10/13/06 06:52 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle.




Wrong.

Satanism condones rational hedonism, not self-destruction for the sake of ephemeral pleasure.
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193815 - 10/13/06 06:52 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Let me get this straight, you're another drug user?

I give you five out of five.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#193816 - 10/13/06 06:57 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

to me it is fairly simple - i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle. satanism is not about ascetism! discipline maybe, but ascetism no. discipline comes in self-mastery (the line between use and abuse). i think it is of paramount importance that one be able to manage one's use of anything, and not to be consumed or mastered by it (just as the magus must maintain control of the circle and the spirit within). once one falls into addiction, or experiences the detrimental effects of over-use, then one is losing something of themselves, and the ability to master and overcome. in a very real sense they are losing their power, their will.




your fucking kidding me right?
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#193817 - 10/13/06 07:03 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle.

Your considerations have little bearing on established Satanic dogma. Anton LaVey addressed the subject of drug use many times. I sincerely doubt that you are nearly as much of an expert on the practice of Satanism as the man who codified the religion.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193818 - 10/13/06 07:08 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Maybe then you're right.
I had a different idea.

Anyway that's not really important. The world is in motion, so am I. I don't care if the bridge went down after I crossed it. It served me well. I'm totally against crystallization in every sense of the word. Some messages self destruct after you read them.

Sum up, digest, stay tuned, period.

Bottom line is there's no such thing as freedom without reason and no one can ever evade from that evidence. No matter how well the scenery has been set. No matter the deeds you're accountable for. No matter the excuses you make.

I don’t know if it’s less excusable coming from those who already made it downstairs. From a member scope maybe. From a non-member scope it’s exactly the same. People who digress were never there in the first place.

I have had a number of friends who were running their lives just fine and suddenly messed up, and went straight back to the abyss as if none of their achievements mattered. Well, it seems they were never there in the first place.

Superadded lives. Truly disappointing. Still the evidence that you're not supposed to live by the book.

Either you get it or not.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#193819 - 10/13/06 08:12 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Virus9]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
i thought we were presenting our own perspectives on this topic, not reiterating lavey's thoughts on the matter.

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#193820 - 10/13/06 08:13 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: tekku]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
no, not in the least.

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#193821 - 10/13/06 08:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Poetaster]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
used to be.

i had no idea there were so many d.a.r.e. graduates into satanism!


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#193822 - 10/13/06 08:17 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
rational hedonism is exactly what i described. there is a difference between the use and abuse of anything - drugs, food, tv, etc.

a fat satanist who eats junk food is abusing food in a self-destructive manner for the sake of emphemeral pleasure - how does that differ?

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#193823 - 10/13/06 08:19 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Most Satanists dislike the idea of drug use, it's a byproduct of the nature of Satanism.

As someone who claims to be a Satanist and have a grand knowledge of what Satanism is, you should know that.

Being deliberately obstinate is not the way to earn respect.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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