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#193779 - 10/12/06 11:33 AM SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE


This was a recent discussion between myself and someone who should know better:

___________________________________________

Infernal Greetings Magister Svengali,

I just wanted to point out a couple things about "LaVey's book "Satan Speaks"

LaVey wasn't anti-hedonistic -he did like to drink. He says on page 107 in Satan Speaks "Sound Retreat" ... "He must live as though there were no clocks, no calendars, and subsequently, no appointments to be met. He must withdraw himself from the affairs and measurements of men, and become as hedonistic as the staunchest moralist (or faddist) is not. It is humanity that will surely kill him if allowed"- LaVey

Also the introduction is by Reverend Marylin Manson who is quite open about his hedonistic lifestyle and excessive drug use.

What is your definition of hedonism and are you also anti- alcohol- tabacco- caffeine?

What's your view on the new craze with anti-depressants?? that drug epidemic has half of Americans HOOKED.

Hail Satan!

********

__________________________________________


My reply:

Hello ********,

"Hedonism" literally means regarding pleasure as a proper motive. The best explaination of what Dr. LaVey meant by this is probably his essay THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL RELIGION.

There are many sources of pleasure.

From the Satanic point of view, pleasure should be considered in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion.

It's really that simple.

I agree strongly with the passage you quote from Dr. LaVey, and I live by it. I think I have an appointment sometime next April, but I will probably postpone and reschedule that at least three times because I'll forget about it by then and it will creep up on me. I avoid obligations to other people like the plague, and live to live "free fall" in my own world, in my own time. But without self-medicating. I don't see that a neccesary or prerequisite.

Lets not equivocate on the "drug" issue. Anyone with an iota of intelligence knows there is an important difference in the effects of, say, Heroin, Acid, and say Pot.

Likewise, there is a substantial difference in the effects of, say Pot and Coffee.

For the record, I don't drink or smoke, even socially, because I don't like it. I do drink coffee on a daily basis.

In terms of psychological effect, I will concede that pot is not as bad as alcohol, but smoking it is as bad or worse for you than cigarrettes. Really, if all the people who have drinking problems sat at home and ate marijuana cookies or hash brownies, they and the world would be better off, but nothing that rational is going to happen in our lifetime.

Plus it is illegal, and in that grey area of "illegal but tolerated" just enough to insure that it is a common and widespread pretext for police intervention in peoples lives. I understand you are against systems of control very much. Why would you buy into an institution (drug counterculture) that was probably invented to be a reason to fuck with you?

Even if it were legal, it has decades of idiotic cultural baggage. Drug counterculture is the most mindless herd phenomenon since religion - why would any Satanist, or the Church of Satan for that matter, want to be associated with such a collective of idiotic losers?

....also, not to "quote scripture," but Dr. LaVey repeatedly expressed his contempt for these kinds of subcultures in no uncertain terms, assuming we both concede his opinion bears on matters pertinent to Satanism.

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about. He has also publically backpeddled regarding his involvement with the Church of Satan (on the Bill O'Reilly show), which to me places him in the category of people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away. If they were really so devoted to Dr. LaVey, they would not have shit on his memory. Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.

But that flies over the head of anyone who blindly sucks up to people because they are "famous."

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting, but I guess it keeps people showing up to work on time, and diverts them from confronting the existential horrors of their own meaningless existence that would otherwise drive them to overt self-destruction.

I'm all for confronting and training your inner demons, turning liabilities into advantages, instead of medicating into oblivion.

People who seek escape in mind-altering drugs should ask themselves why their predominant frame of mind is so shitty that they need to escape. Some people have no choice, they are damaged goods and are probably better off in self-medicated oblivion. Unfortunately they usually descend into rampant destructive compulsion that makes a disaster of the world around them.

There is a difference between being disfunctional and being "Alien" in the Satanic sense of the term. One is "unter", the latter is "uber", in relation to the common stream of human waste.

I am open to intelligent discussion/debate on these topics.

Hail Satan!

S.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193780 - 10/12/06 11:55 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Quote:

From the Satanic point of view, pleasure should be considered in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion.

It's really that simple.




Magister Svengali,
I have no debate with any of what you wrote. In fact the above quote should serve as the be all, end all of the discussion.
Hail Satan!
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#193781 - 10/12/06 12:43 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
RustySpring Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1109
Brilliant.

I couldn't think of a better reply.

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#193782 - 10/12/06 12:50 PM Mans...What ? [Re: Svengali]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about. He has also publically backpeddled regarding his involvement with the Church of Satan (on the Bill O'Reilly show), which to me places him in the category of people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away. If they were really so devoted to Dr. LaVey, they would not have shit on his memory. Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.




I don't want to start a debate on this, but this was obvious, since years, and I'll say this without caring about "Fans", that this man that I consider as a thief ( to explain would be long, but some know ), has been created the same way a boys band in reality shows would have been, in order to please the "pseudo goths market" by giving them the image of a SCAPEGOAT singing "don't like the drugs but the drugs like me".

Isn't it a concept about being a martyr ? Because here, it is about becoming a freak because "America and its Christianity, politic, pressure" and so on...Well this "message" is not truly walking hand in hand with the LaVey's statements at all.

This "I became that way because you all made me" is truly easy now...

-Then,this is how self-mutilated adolescent being "in league with Satan" will follow...F O L L O W .

-Then, this is how my grand mother ( even her ) showed me a people magazine and asked me :"Do you know these guys ?" ...Well oh surprise ( ) this was a picture of Manson absolutely fucked-up and close to it ( of course...) a Anton LaVey's one. The title ? > "a New priest for the Devil's work"... ... Well, not so funny.

Big record companies wanted to say "Bingo!", well they have, by finding all necessary tools they needed. And of course, they knew that they were going to make big sensations if the Church of Satan was used too. what they needed is the attractive name.

Are we going to speak about success, or are we going to speak about that new thing they had found once everyone knew the trick :" he is not fake, he is someone USING everything to reach his goals"... ... Same old thing... But I only see a puppet under drugs.


Edited by Assabrah (10/12/06 07:18 PM)
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#193783 - 10/12/06 03:45 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Your response is probably closer to my feelings on the subject than anything else you've written on it.

I still think the best anyone nailed it was Anton LaVey himself, who in The Satanic Witch wrote, "The effects of drugs upon the witch are only definable by the success shown by a witch outside her drug-oriented peer group."

While I'm not aware of Anton LaVey ever supporting the "Just Say No" position, he made his own opinions regarding drug use abundantly clear.

As for me, I'm all for letting people make their own choices, but I'm unlikely to be sympathetic when things don't pan out quite the way they thought.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193784 - 10/12/06 05:11 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: RustySpring]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
HAIL the Order of the Trapezoid! They are the guardians, with their Black Flame and tongues that cut deeper than any razor! HAIL SATAN!
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#193785 - 10/12/06 06:09 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Simply brilliant.

Although I can't see any reason such a thing even needs to be discussed.

Drug use, regardless of the intent leads to deterioration of the life providing vessel, otherwise known as the human body. Isn't that reason enough to make this a non-issue to the reasonable and life-affirming Satanist?

Tap dancing for a loophole just seems ridiculous to me, the source notwithstanding.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#193786 - 10/12/06 06:24 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
evalUate Offline


Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Michigan
Magister Svengali:

You very eloquently hit the nail squarely on the head when you said, “I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting, but I guess it keeps people showing up to work on time, and diverts them from confronting the existential horrors of their own meaningless existence that would otherwise drive them to overt self-destruction.”

Since governments have shrewdly guided the herd to be “ambitious” uber-consumers (in the ‘keeping up with the Jones’ sense), their allies, the powerful drug companies, have set themselves up to compensate these same overworked, stressed-out masses with feel good drugs, so they may continue, anesthetized, slaving away for them. Just like religions, insurance companies and lawyers, they set up the problems, so they can provide the solutions (for a price).

The most Satanic people I have met have been ones that have the instinct to subtly use and apply the most potent indulges without succumbing to them.

Thank you once more for your straightforward insight, Magister!
HAIL SATAN!
-Nadine

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#193787 - 10/13/06 03:24 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Quote:

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about. He has also publically backpeddled regarding his involvement with the Church of Satan (on the Bill O'Reilly show), which to me places him in the category of people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away. If they were really so devoted to Dr. LaVey, they would not have shit on his memory. Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.




Hail Svengali!

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#193788 - 10/13/06 04:17 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
This is a well written reply, Magister. I find anything you write to be well written anyway.

Marilyn Manson has lost it if you ask me. I was once an avid fan of his music and up until a few years ago(3-5), I could have told you just about anything you wanted to know about him. I can even give him credit for my finding Satanism, as I am sure a lot of folks could credit him the same. If it had not been for the chapters of his autobiography pertaining to his experiences with the Good Doktor, I would not have came upon The Satanic Bible when I did. I cannot speculate one way or the other as to how/if I would have discovered it otherwise, but I digress.

On the other hand, this attention I devoted to him also influenced me to wander off the path, so to speak. It was during my high school years that I hit rock bottom. I got into drugs, alcohol and general trouble all around. One day, about two years after high school, I snapped out of it. I woke up and told myself, "This is bullshit, you are destroying yourself when you should be building yourself up." Then I went through my box of books and dug out that diabolical black book and read it again. I decided I had enough with all of that. But again, I digress.

I was not actually aware of Marilyn Manson's backpedalling. Then again, I don't watch Bill O'Reilly or any other shows of that nature. This only adds to my loss of interest(the backpedalling). I still read his bio from time to time, as a sort of reminder of that period of my life when things turned around for me. I agree that he does some stupid things. I also have read some equally interesting opinions of his in the past. (See The Delusional Self)

I am not going to advocate his actions or statements, especially those in regards to his affiliation. I agree that if you backpedal, you should turn in your red card. If it wasn't for Dr. LaVey, none of us would be where we are now(CoS/Satanism). The man(Dr. LaVey) deserves every bit of respect and praise for the achievements of his lifetime and the memories he left behind. His Church is standing strong some 40 years later and moves ever forward. In a few more years, I wouldn't be surprised if Marilyn Manson is forgotten. He seems to be on that path already.

In regards to the topic at hand, I say let people make their own choices. If people use drugs and can't figure out that it is a self-destructive path, then fuck 'em. If someone is smart enough to stay away from them or realise the error of their ways and correct the problem, then good for them. Responsibility to the responsible.

Enjoy your life, don't destroy it.


Edited by xDravenx (10/13/06 05:04 AM)

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#193789 - 10/13/06 06:04 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Lust]
Rory_Rocketpants Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 1795
Loc: unknown
Magister Svengali,

I disagree about your advocation of people eating/smoking marijuana as opposed to drinking alcohol.

Although alcohol undoubtedly makes people act like imbeciles, in my opinion, it is a lot healthier, psychologically, than pot.

You probably said what you did due to the current "binge drinking" culture; people drinking until they vomit, fighting anyone in the nearest vicinity for sheer amusement.

The key here is: Self Restraint.

If these people were worried about fucking up their bodies and their lives, they would drink...in moderation, or not at all.
But they are obviously not, so fuck them! Let them drown themselves in alcohol!

Marijuana causes psychosis, mania, schizophrenia, paranoia, and many other problems. Yes, over a great amount of time I can imagine alcohol abuse would do something similar, but nowhere near as quick as pot would cause it to happen.

I personally do not do drugs, I do not drink (I haven't for some time and am now intolerant to any more than one alcoholic beverage), I have given up smoking, even though it was something that I enjoyed doing, my BODY didn't enjoy it, and one should respect one's body, without a doubt.

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#193790 - 10/13/06 06:25 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

A. I can even give him credit for my finding Satanism, as I am sure a lot of folks could credit him the same.

B. On the other hand, this attention I devoted to him also influenced me to wander off the path, so to speak. It was during my high school years that I hit rock bottom. I got into drugs, alcohol and general trouble all around.





That is the crux of it.

His assets never outweighed his liabilities.

Whatever talent (or lack thereof) he had as a musician is irrelevant.

"Talented" musicians are a dime a dozen.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193791 - 10/13/06 06:31 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rory_Rocketpants]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
They are equally worthless in my book.

I was addressing habitual drug/alcohol users, not people who drink till they puke one weekend out of the month.

They are stupid too, but relatively harmless as long as they are unarmed and don't drive.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193792 - 10/13/06 09:41 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
As always, Magister, your insights are much appreciated.

As for Marilyn Manson, I am a fan of his music. Of course, you don't have to respect a musician to like his music. I don't know him personally, so I don't feel qualified to make a certain judgement on his character.

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#193793 - 10/13/06 10:16 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Maya]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
I am only refering to his public words and actions in regards to Satanism.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193794 - 10/13/06 10:31 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
London Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 965
Loc: The Inmost Dens
If this message is from who I think it is from, it only further reinforces my prediction that he will go the same way as Marilyn Manson.
_________________________
If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then using logic I can deduce that the friend of my friend is my enemy.

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#193795 - 10/13/06 12:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
He did give the best interview in Bowling for Columbine, for what it was worth .

He seems to be intellectually bright, perhaps, but his drug use and partying indicates that he lacks practical common sense, especially where the Satanic self-preservation instinct is concerned. This seems to happen to many performers and musicians, unfortunately, so while a lot of them create great or enjoyable material, they're often people you wouldn't like or respect in real life.

I didn't hear about the backpedaling.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193796 - 10/13/06 12:16 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Quote:

They are equally worthless in my book.

I was addressing habitual drug/alcohol users, not people who drink till they puke one weekend out of the month.

They are stupid too, but relatively harmless as long as they are unarmed and don't drive.




Yeah, stupidity is painful-- to the recipients of its outcome!

Habitual alcohol abusers are scum in my book. Especially when armed with a motorvehicle.
_________________________




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#193797 - 10/13/06 12:19 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: RandomStranger]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I recently learned in my developmental psychology class that alcohol, cigarettes, and pot are the worst things to "give" to a fetus, and, counter-intuitively, things like cocaine and heroin may be the "best," if we're talking about the duration and the seriousness of the effects overall. (However, if a woman goes off the heroin while pregnant, this will often cause her to spontaneously give birth at an early time, and THAT of course comes with a whole host of problems.)
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193798 - 10/13/06 12:29 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: RandomStranger]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Having lost close family members (plural) to drunk drivers, I have strong opinions on that specific issue.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193799 - 10/13/06 01:47 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Human beings have for the most part poor self discipline, if any at all. This fact is exaggerated by the bodies attempt to achieve equilibrium which creates a dependency. Whether the equilibrium is psychological or physiological doesn't really matter. Assault the body with a stress, it will adjust, remove that stress, it will adjust. This takes a lot out of a person, and can even break the frail. It is apparent to anyone with sense that all drugs, including medical pharmaceuticals, differ in degree only, but are of the same kind.

Responsibility to the responsible applies to the "drug" question more than any other; the pursuit of pleasure is laudable, but only the most self disciplined and responsible people have the strength to pursue this pleasure, because the pleasure is fleeting, and the consequence of its pursuit is deadly! Since drugs draw such a stigma these days, and most people don't have the discipline to pursue such past times, the CoS stance on drug use and drug users is not just a highly rational policy concerning the issue, but an act of truly diabolical thought, considering the widespread drug culture full of vacuous addicts who argue that their drug hobbies does not hurt them because they are [insert nonsense here].

It also acts as just one more filter, weeding out the weak from the strong. Finding those who had the self respect and personal strength to have never touched any of it in the first place, and those who were at least intelligent enough to wake the hell up and realize the self destruction they were delivering on themselves.

As far as Marilyn Manson goes, every once in a while he makes a decent song. His best album was Antichrist Superstar, and he has gone down hill ever since. I do not even make the attempt to follow the happenings of any rock star, in my mind it is just one more dismal soap opera for the herd to live vicariously through. I agree completely that his assets do not outweigh his liabilities, and have wondered more than once why he is still tolerated as a member of the CoS. The information about him backpedaling on the matter of his affiliation should have been the final nail in that coffin. Why is this dysfunctional relationship allowed to continue?
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193800 - 10/13/06 02:21 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.

If that happens, I hope it leads to a reduction in the number of wannabes that show up around here. Too many idiots "get into" Satanism because of him. They identify more with what he put into his book than with what Doc put into his.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#193801 - 10/13/06 03:14 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
I don’t think there are two readings:

If you’re nailed to the wall you’re not free.
Addiction IS imprisonment for all that matters. You’re not indulging to anything you are being forcedly compelled to do over and over again.
Some people make the difference between free hedonism and rational hedonism, I think one goes with the other. To indulge – the hedonist utmost pleasure - means doing it at own discretion. Choose from, hence REASON from. This sounds so fucking obvious to me, I was never to question the meaning of indulgence as a bastion of freedom. Not once. That first statement caught me an open smile!

Then comes long term destruction and I’m compelled to think of it as another stupid way to devote oneself to a deity.
Ever thought of the way so many troubadours treated it? “Heroine my wife my life”? Just to mention one?
Ever though of the way recovered addicts stay hooked on recovery? How junkies feed a love-hate devotion for their drug of choice?
Their righteous lectures about what shouldn’t be done, as if they were tragically, romantically doomed to it?
It does goes with the herd mentality from voluntary arrest to the need to explain oneself through the stretched claws of an “higher power”. May that be solid, liquid or gaseous.

Now speaking about Marilyn Manson in particular.
As some others here, I also owe him my approach to Satanism. I was a regular user of a forum some of you might know, upon which I had the chance to meet quite a few interesting people and learn a lot about the purpose of his stage persona, his lyrics and co-laterally about different ways to communicate.
Well, I have to say I do sympathize with the way Marilyn Manson used his stage persona and some of his lyrics to portray some people’s mindset, namely the junky.
“Don’t like the Drugs but the Drugs Like Me “is a hack of an example of the typical mindset of a junky, blaming drugs for his own drug abuse.

My question is: Should one assume the man considers himself to be victim, just because he is portraying a victim at his own persona expense?

Could be he was doing the so called “lecture”!. Maybe he was. But as far as I know, he’s off with drug abuse for sometime now, and his staged personas are mostly caricatures.

Could one possibly stay that close to a man like LaVey and the CoS, just for the sake of publicity? I don’t think so. Surely there was mutual appreciation for some good reason.
If he did actually step back into drugs, that’s something else, but I don’t think the word betrayal remotely applies, except to himself.

I’m no hard-core fan, yet I do enjoy his art.

Have to say Mainstream FX do change people, yet, I’ tend to antagonize with gossip, most especially when it targets people whose influence is out of question.

october1560


Edited by leonor (10/13/06 03:23 PM)
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#193802 - 10/13/06 04:30 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rory_Rocketpants]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Marijuana causes psychosis, mania, schizophrenia, paranoia, and many other problems.

Would you mind citing a source on that?

I've dealt with a number of potheads, and I've never seen one who exhibited the symptoms you mention who wasn't already fucked-up to begin with.

I actually started reading some of the medical research on marijuana when my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer last year. While I did find a few isolated case-studies of "cannabis psychosis", other studies failed to replicate those findings. It's now more widely believed that although marijuana use may exacerbate certain psychological disorders, it is not a cause in and of itself.

Of course I would never ask anyone to cite a source without citing one of my own. While I was unable to find the specific case studies regarding "cannabis psychosis", here are some reponses to some other widely believed myths about marijuana use.

For the record (again), I neither use nor condone the use of marijuana. Even if it were legal, I think that there are better choices for people to make on what to do with their lives, just as I think there are better choices to be made than going out and getting shitfaced every weekend. Still, I think it's better for people to make rational choices based upon accurate information rather than taking a reactionary stance based on bullshit culled from the script of Reefer Madness.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193803 - 10/13/06 04:31 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Virus9]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
The paranoia part at least is almost beyond question. I've never met a secure doper.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193804 - 10/13/06 04:37 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Sigvatr Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
I am in some ways a utilitarianist. If taking a drug today for some short lived pleasure results in long term pain, then I will probably not take it.

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.
_________________________
Hail Satan, - Sigvatr

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#193805 - 10/13/06 04:48 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
Most of the paranoia I've encountered in marijuana users has been based on emotional insecurities which were present even when the person wasn't high. Once again we see the exacerabation of an exisiting condition, not a root cause.

The rest were just afraid of getting busted.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193806 - 10/13/06 05:01 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Brilliant response Magister

I completely agree in all aspects, however i have a personal experience to share which i would like to hear opinions of.

I have a past business acquintance, who i used to work for as a personal chef for a time.

This woman who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons, is a very successful business woman who owns a few companies and is quite respected and active in her business and social circle, takes extreme care with her personal appearance, very intelligent in alot of areas, and is in every sense when you look at it from the outset a "responsible" woman.

However......

She chooses to at certain times for social purposes and from what i have seen in my expierence to be common practise with the "upper class" in business, to include an obscene amount of cocaine in their little parties and get togethers, quite a common practise to have lines racked up to go with your champagne as you arrive and for the duration of your stay

And it is not an addiction, purely if i may say an act of sorts just for those social purposes.

In light of what you have said Magister, i am keen to know your perspective on this ( and anyone who would like to respond to this)
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#193807 - 10/13/06 05:02 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Sorry about your loss.

I was in an accident on my motorcycle in '99 because of a drunken driver.

My anger and contempt is boundless when it comes to stupid people.
_________________________




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#193808 - 10/13/06 05:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

I am in some ways a utilitarianist. If taking a drug today for some short lived pleasure results in long term pain, then I will probably not take it.

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.




In simple terms, if you want to use illegal drugs, do it as far away from The Church of Satan as possible, and stay away.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193809 - 10/13/06 05:17 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.

"Intelligence" and "drug use" are two terms that don't go together.

If you're going to advocate drug use, you don't belong here and will be shown the door.
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

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#193810 - 10/13/06 05:26 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: leonor]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

My question is: Should one assume the man considers himself to be victim, just because he is portraying a victim at his own persona expense?




This is surely a question to ask him at 4am, during his acid pills party... ?

That's funny to read the word "gossip". Just to say it quickly, that guy called Twiggy corresponded with me for a while....He was maybe the "most clean guy" of that "band", if you see what I mean.

It is when the theatre becomes too real, and this is where I don't support this at all. Now if some knew Satanism thanks to him, well .... Mes condoléances ...
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#193811 - 10/13/06 05:38 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Sigvatr]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.




There is no intellegent way to use a drug, it would be like trying to intellegently slam your dick in a car door. The filter does it's magic once again.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193812 - 10/13/06 05:39 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Excellent Reply, Magister.


Quote:

Plus it is illegal, and in that grey area of "illegal but tolerated" just enough to insure that it is a common and widespread pretext for police intervention in peoples lives. I understand you are against systems of control very much. Why would you buy into an institution (drug counterculture) that was probably invented to be a reason to fuck with you?




This is a good point, and one that is not typically mentioned in such an argument. In addition to the hassle of police intervention, I would say that even recreational pot smoking can impact other aspects of one's life, in terms of reputation and employment-- two VERY important facets, which are often downplayed to justify drug use.

Quote:

Even if it were legal, it has decades of idiotic cultural baggage. Drug counterculture is the most mindless herd phenomenon since religion - why would any Satanist, or the Church of Satan for that matter, want to be associated with such a collective of idiotic losers?





It does have idiotic cultural baggage, but I disagree with that fact being a valid reason not to do something in and of itself. There are idiots in the CoS, yet I don't hesitate to associate with the organization. You yourself have a page on MySpace, which is a veritable breeding pool of idiocy, yet you are not an idiot by association. Likewise, smoking pot does not necessarily make a person a member of the "stoner" subculture. The public perception of Satanism carries a similar stigma because, like the drug subculture, the pseudo-Satanists get the most time in the melodramatic limelight.
I've known some idiotic, "Hey it's 420, dude" stoners (and yes, they are insufferable bastards) but I've also known some very intelligent people who smoke pot and do it discreetly.
My point here is that I avoid taking any generalization, no matter how common, as an absolute; Additionally, a commonplace cultural trend or tendency can only really affect those who willingly embrace and identify themselves by it.

Quote:

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about.




I couldn't agree more. Not only is he an admitted cocaine user, he is also a parasite. Many features of his "art" are stolen from others. Many of his lyrics are parroted LaVeyisms, and he used the same power symbol that the Dok used as his personal sigil(how very original!), for starters. Much of what defines Manson's sound/style can be attributed to Trent Reznor.

His backpeddling was very telling indeed, especially considering that he is the last person on Earth who has any practical need to backpeddle from a "controversial" topic.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of others (that shall remain unnamed) who are also "people who were siding up to Dr. LaVey for "noteriety by association" claiming to be all about the philosophy, yet disparaging Dr. LaVey's legacy after he passed away."

In time, stratification will prune such dead leaves from the budding CoS tree.

Quote:

Personally I think his affiliation should be revoked.




But... He's an Anti-Christ Superstar!


Quote:

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting, but I guess it keeps people showing up to work on time, and diverts them from confronting the existential horrors of their own meaningless existence that would otherwise drive them to overt self-destruction.




Gee, with the exception of the forementioned promptness to work, it sure sounds like "mood drugs" are simply a legal(and possibly more harmful) substitute for habitual pot or alcohol use.


Quote:

I'm all for confronting and training your inner demons, turning liabilities into advantages, instead of medicating into oblivion.




Well said. I never understood those types. If life is so horrible, then just go kill yourself. The solution is really quite simple.

Quote:

People who seek escape in mind-altering drugs should ask themselves why their predominant frame of mind is so shitty that they need to escape.




But it's so much easier to just not think at all.

Quote:

There is a difference between being disfunctional and being "Alien" in the Satanic sense of the term. One is "unter", the latter is "uber", in relation to the common stream of human waste.





That is a GREAT line, and would make a nice signature quote.


Thanks for the pleasurable read.



HS!
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193813 - 10/13/06 06:36 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
to me it is fairly simple - i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle. satanism is not about ascetism! discipline maybe, but ascetism no. discipline comes in self-mastery (the line between use and abuse). i think it is of paramount importance that one be able to manage one's use of anything, and not to be consumed or mastered by it (just as the magus must maintain control of the circle and the spirit within). once one falls into addiction, or experiences the detrimental effects of over-use, then one is losing something of themselves, and the ability to master and overcome. in a very real sense they are losing their power, their will.

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#193814 - 10/13/06 06:52 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle.




Wrong.

Satanism condones rational hedonism, not self-destruction for the sake of ephemeral pleasure.
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193815 - 10/13/06 06:52 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Let me get this straight, you're another drug user?

I give you five out of five.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#193816 - 10/13/06 06:57 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

to me it is fairly simple - i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle. satanism is not about ascetism! discipline maybe, but ascetism no. discipline comes in self-mastery (the line between use and abuse). i think it is of paramount importance that one be able to manage one's use of anything, and not to be consumed or mastered by it (just as the magus must maintain control of the circle and the spirit within). once one falls into addiction, or experiences the detrimental effects of over-use, then one is losing something of themselves, and the ability to master and overcome. in a very real sense they are losing their power, their will.




your fucking kidding me right?
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#193817 - 10/13/06 07:03 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Virus9 Offline
CoS Priest

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 2108
Loc: Florida
i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle.

Your considerations have little bearing on established Satanic dogma. Anton LaVey addressed the subject of drug use many times. I sincerely doubt that you are nearly as much of an expert on the practice of Satanism as the man who codified the religion.
_________________________
Everyone is special in their own way, and by "special" I mean the short-bus variety.

"Recognize the phrase 'national interest' as a synonym for 'self-interest' and you will find no moral obstacle that cannot be removed from the highway of ambition."
-Lewis Lapham

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
-Winston Churchill

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#193818 - 10/13/06 07:08 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Maybe then you're right.
I had a different idea.

Anyway that's not really important. The world is in motion, so am I. I don't care if the bridge went down after I crossed it. It served me well. I'm totally against crystallization in every sense of the word. Some messages self destruct after you read them.

Sum up, digest, stay tuned, period.

Bottom line is there's no such thing as freedom without reason and no one can ever evade from that evidence. No matter how well the scenery has been set. No matter the deeds you're accountable for. No matter the excuses you make.

I don’t know if it’s less excusable coming from those who already made it downstairs. From a member scope maybe. From a non-member scope it’s exactly the same. People who digress were never there in the first place.

I have had a number of friends who were running their lives just fine and suddenly messed up, and went straight back to the abyss as if none of their achievements mattered. Well, it seems they were never there in the first place.

Superadded lives. Truly disappointing. Still the evidence that you're not supposed to live by the book.

Either you get it or not.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

Top
#193819 - 10/13/06 08:12 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Virus9]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
i thought we were presenting our own perspectives on this topic, not reiterating lavey's thoughts on the matter.

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#193820 - 10/13/06 08:13 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: tekku]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
no, not in the least.

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#193821 - 10/13/06 08:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Poetaster]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
used to be.

i had no idea there were so many d.a.r.e. graduates into satanism!


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#193822 - 10/13/06 08:17 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
necrotek Offline


Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 14
rational hedonism is exactly what i described. there is a difference between the use and abuse of anything - drugs, food, tv, etc.

a fat satanist who eats junk food is abusing food in a self-destructive manner for the sake of emphemeral pleasure - how does that differ?

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#193823 - 10/13/06 08:19 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Most Satanists dislike the idea of drug use, it's a byproduct of the nature of Satanism.

As someone who claims to be a Satanist and have a grand knowledge of what Satanism is, you should know that.

Being deliberately obstinate is not the way to earn respect.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#193824 - 10/13/06 08:21 PM Women, pregnancy, drugs [Re: TrojZyr]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

(However, if a woman goes off the heroin while pregnant, this will often cause her to spontaneously give birth at an early time, and THAT of course comes with a whole host of problems.)




While pregnant, My mother was on drugs that were at the time prescription drugs, though they are now illegal. The drug addiction caused a world of lasting trouble to her, though nothing at all lasting to Me.

That said, I was born a month premature, and did have to be sedated for My first three days while My body went through the initial withdrawal process. My first day awake was Halloween, actually

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#193825 - 10/13/06 08:23 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

i thought we were presenting our own perspectives on this topic, not reiterating lavey's thoughts on the matter.






**user added to ignore list**
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#193826 - 10/13/06 08:26 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Go away.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193827 - 10/13/06 08:46 PM Drug abuse and "reiterating LaVey's thoughts". [Re: necrotek]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

i thought we were presenting our own perspectives on this topic, not reiterating lavey's thoughts on the matter.




Could it be that we just happen to agree with the man?

Do notice that it says in the title "Satanic Hedonism", rather than "Suicidal Hedonism".

The first of the Satanic Sins is "Stupidity".

You may not like to read this and this on the issue of "reiterating LaVey's thoughts".

The first is by Dr. LaVey's widow, Magistra (Formerly High Priestess) Blanche Barton, and the second is by Magister Michael Rose.

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#193828 - 10/13/06 08:49 PM Junk food vs narcotics. [Re: necrotek]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

a fat satanist who eats junk food is abusing food in a self-destructive manner for the sake of emphemeral pleasure - how does that differ?




If you need us to answer that, you really weren't paying attention in school

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#193829 - 10/13/06 09:00 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: leonor]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:

Anyway that's not really important. The world is in motion, so am I. I don't care if the bridge went down after I crossed it. It served me well. I'm totally against crystallization in every sense of the word. Some messages self destruct after you read them.




come on, where are you going ? The thread is clear, we all were speaking about it, nothing more.

It could be Manson or anyone, "from a member scope" as you have said, drugs are for appeasing the mass. There is a certain pride to be over this, and this has nothing to do with "living by the book".

Oh, let's make an easier version :

Hey Franky, what do you think about drugs ?


> "BAAAAAD !!!"
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#193830 - 10/13/06 09:01 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Unfortunately for you, condoning criminal behavior is the fast track out of here.

It always amazes me how damned stupid people have to be to condone, much less actually confess to, criminal acts. Every time some dolt announces that he uses drugs, I wish I could cuff him and drag him in just for blatant idiocy in telling the world that he's a crook.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193831 - 10/13/06 09:07 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
I've said it before:

I just love it when the executioner erects a gallows and the guilty line up to voluntarily jump in the noose.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193832 - 10/13/06 09:07 PM Criminal stupidity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Quote:

Every time some dolt announces that he uses drugs, I wish I could cuff him and drag him in just for blatant idiocy in telling the world that he's a crook.




I know just how you feel. That would be really nice... Should ask for their name and address, they'd probably be stupid enough to give it

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#193833 - 10/13/06 09:10 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: necrotek]
Nidhogg Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 344
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

to me it is fairly simple - i consider hedonism (including drug use) to be one of the key elements of a satanic lifestyle. satanism is not about ascetism! discipline maybe, but ascetism no. discipline comes in self-mastery (the line between use and abuse). i think it is of paramount importance that one be able to manage one's use of anything, and not to be consumed or mastered by it (just as the magus must maintain control of the circle and the spirit within). once one falls into addiction, or experiences the detrimental effects of over-use, then one is losing something of themselves, and the ability to master and overcome. in a very real sense they are losing their power, their will.




How very herd of you.

Piss off.
_________________________
fka Thyrn

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#193834 - 10/13/06 10:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
$lesk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 2318
Loc: Norway
Quote:


Having lost close family members (plural) to drunk drivers, I have strong opinions on that specific issue.




Ditto.
_________________________
I am just a very thin layer of charming with some funny sprinkles wrapped around a huge creamy center of raging arrogant a-hole.
Sermo III & cult 45
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#193835 - 10/13/06 10:37 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Quote:

There is a certain pride to be over this, and this has nothing to do with "living by the book".




For the record: I will seriously reconsider my abuse of metaphors.

When I said “living by the book” I was referring to people who can learn the method/philosophy/rule/statement by heart without truly ascribing it.
It’s a fake. See what I’m getting at?

Anyone mentally sane will realize Satanists disdain for drugs or compulsion directly relates to the fact they praise indulgence and balance.
Those others who will act accordingly to stay in line get no true reward from it except maybe a fleeting redemption.
So there’s also no practical reason for them to stay in line.
So they stumble.

This goes beyond Satanism.
No one should ever abide to a method before truly understanding its core.

Same as saying (and this is critical!) people who can’t understand why they should stay out of drugs, shouldn’t stop using them.

OK. I’m done here. Thanks for your time.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#193836 - 10/13/06 10:59 PM DRUG ABUSE is S-T-U-P-I-D [Re: necrotek]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

rational hedonism is exactly what i described. there is a difference between the use and abuse of anything - drugs, food, tv, etc.




Ahem.

Drug use can KILL you.

Drug use can put you in PRISON.

Drug use is ... (read the letters very slowly) S-T-U-P-I-D.

Stupidity is The top of the list for Satanic Sins.

I would hit the ignore button on you but I see that you are already bye bye.

So .... bye bye!

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#193837 - 10/13/06 11:02 PM Not possible. [Re: Sigvatr]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

In simple terms, if you want to use a drug, use it intelligently.




The word is oxymoron.

If you don't understand that then just drop the "oxy".

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#193838 - 10/13/06 11:06 PM Like delicious rat poison! [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Dig a hole deep enough and people will line up to jump in.

Where do these jackalopes come from?

A thread like this flushes out cockroaches faster than the Orkin Man!

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#193839 - 10/13/06 11:09 PM Re: DRUG ABUSE is S-T-U-P-I-D [Re: Nemo]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1512
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
Drug abuse certainly is stupid. My former best friend and I were very close, until he started "experimenting" with drugs. He went from being a great guy to being a drugged out junkie who regularly beat his own mother. Last I heard, his mom kicked him out of the house, and I couldn't care less what happened to him after.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton

JustinR on The Undercroft


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#193840 - 10/13/06 11:11 PM Re: Like delcious rat poison! [Re: Nemo]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
That's why I don't bother locking these threads. The fools expose themselves and we wind up with a cleaner house for it.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193841 - 10/14/06 12:46 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
NihilisticSiafu Offline


Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Highland Park, IL, USA
I think marijuana can be one of the more dangerous drugs. It seems, at least where I live, that pot is tolerated, and, in some cases, encouraged by many authority figures enough to make it seem perfectly harmless. When, in fact, that is the danger itself. Pot seems to have the image of the cool recreational drug that everyone does, and no one is addicted to. But the mental addiction of escaping any problem when it arises in your life is a very dangerous thing. I have seen it happen to more than a few good friends of mine. In a way, people who use "harder" drugs less frequently are much better off. But I suppose that puts us right back to the heart of the issue; how much is too much, or, how often is too often?
_________________________
"The mind is its own place, and in it self Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less then hee Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce To reign is worth ambition though in Hell: Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n." John Milton Paradise Lost - Book 1 - Lines 254-263

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#193842 - 10/14/06 12:54 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: NihilisticSiafu]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
The risks associated with illegal drugs, only by merit of the fact that they are illegal, far outweigh any temporary gratitude gained from them.

Illegal drugs are not monitored or regulated.

Illegal drugs must be trafficked and drug trafficking involves a lot of people. Any one of which could seriously ruin your day.

Drug dealers are connected to gangs - some way, some how, I don't care who they are. People who associate with gangs should not be trusted because when push comes to shove they will always put themselves before the people they are dealing to.

Illegal drugs are illegal - jail is a waste of time and fines are a waste of money.

The only good thing I've ever seen pot do is keep boring people at home so that I don't have to deal with them.

And while I'm there - that introspective, "smoke weed to learn about yourself" idea is total bullshit. I'm one of the most self-analyzing, self-aware, meditative people I know.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#193843 - 10/14/06 02:35 AM Re: Like delicious rat poison! [Re: Nemo]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Quote:

Dig a hole deep enough and people will line up to jump in.




Put up a bold sign that says "Do not jump in hole." and watch the number of people in line double.

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#193844 - 10/14/06 02:38 AM Re: Forbidden commands. [Re: DataLore]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I could not agree more!

Well done, Holmes!

(How do you do it?!).

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#193845 - 10/14/06 03:43 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
Quote:

He did give the best interview in Bowling for Columbine, for what it was worth .

He seems to be intellectually bright, perhaps, but his drug use and partying indicates that he lacks practical common sense, especially where the Satanic self-preservation instinct is concerned. This seems to happen to many performers and musicians, unfortunately, so while a lot of them create great or enjoyable material, they're often people you wouldn't like or respect in real life.




I never saw that special. I would like to, though. I was a junior in high school when Colombine happened.

I've given up on Manson. I used to be really big into his work and his image back in the day. To the point where I found myself in a hole of shit. I crawled out, cleaned myself up and never looked back. The only positive thing I can accredit to that compulsive phase was the discovery of Satanism. I have no interest in the man anymore. I agree with Jack Lantern that his best work was Antichrist Superstar. It was about two or three cd's after that I gave up entirely. Like I said before, I still reread his bio from time to time as a reminder of all of that. Especially since it was his experiences with LaVey that set me on the path of straightening myself out. That was entirely because of the interest I drew in Dr. LaVey himself and the only part Manson really played in that was submitting the experience in his book.

I agree that while I did enjoy his music for a long time; I hardly doubt I would have any respect for the man if I met him in person. He did seem rather intelligent to me while I was so devoted to him, however in hindsight the drug use and other stupidity far outweighs his accomplishments. Or as Magister Svengali said, "His assest never outweighed his liabilities."

I'm still puzzled why so many musicians seem to fall into this pit of drug use. There are hardly any out there that seem to be clean. Most, especially those of the 'rockstar' persuasion, tend to be highly deluded. It's sad really. There are a lot of musicians out there whose music I enjoy, but the artist I despise for reasons such as these.

I did a lot of stupid shit as a kid, I am just glad I woke up.

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#193846 - 10/14/06 03:46 AM Re: Women, pregnancy, drugs [Re: Linguascelesta]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Then you are lucky for sure..A lot of women in their pregnancy
are smoking, drinking or doing drugs. Too stupid to realize they're not the only user. There's a methadone clinic in my town where they provide the scum on a daily base. Some people are pregnant, it's a horrible thought that a newborn is already addicted when he enters this world, no chances, no future..it's a disgusting thought to say the least.
Instead of methadone, they should force sterilisation.
Stupid junkies are breeding stupid retarded children.



_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#193847 - 10/14/06 04:47 AM Re: Women, pregnancy, drugs [Re: Linguascelesta]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, you seem perfectly fine now. I'm sorry your mother put you at risk like that, but, on the bright side, Halloween is a great day to awaken .
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193848 - 10/14/06 11:59 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: NihilisticSiafu]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

in some cases, encouraged by many authority figures enough to make it seem perfectly harmless.




This should be enough to make any one with half a brain suspicious.

Ever read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"?
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193849 - 10/14/06 01:29 PM Re: Mans...What ? [Re: Assabrah]
redheadgrl Offline


Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 273
I had an opportunity to meet him once-a friend of a friend was working backstage at his show. He offered us passes and then he told us that Manson is known to spit, cuss and throw things backstage. I told him thanks, but no thanks. Famous people don't impress me. The world is full of sheep who they can spit on, impress or intimidate.

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#193850 - 10/14/06 01:46 PM Re: Criminal stupidity [Re: Linguascelesta]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024

In that regard, I would be delighted if you would kindly post your major credit card numbers, including their expiration dates and the three-digit number from their backs, along with said name and address.

I am sure another idiot would be glad to partake in this thread.

_________________________

Refuse to die.

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#193851 - 10/14/06 02:46 PM My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Svengali]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Speaking for myself only--as a rip-off, I put alcohol shoulder to shoulder with illegal drugs. It's legal status says nothing as to it's comparative validity.

Several years ago I threw away alcohol along with a number of other things, people, and activities that were ripping me off success-wise. I figured in a few years, I'd pick up a bottle and see if I could remember what it was I enjoyed about it--but would do so from a healthy perspective in a safe and controlled environment--and see if perhaps it was more the external pressures that made it suck than the alcohol. Last night, I gave it a shot.

It still sucks. The hour or so of euphoria really is not that enjoyable in the first place--and is really not so much euphoria as it is just a chaotic mind with chemistry out of whack. For what minor insignificant pleasure there is--I can't believe I ever found it anything but boring. Measured against most things I would rather be doing, at best it's a waste of time, but unlike other things, once underway, my attention is confined to it and I have to wait for it to take it's sweet ass time wearing off.

As experiments go, it went as I had hoped--that is to say I got the answer I wanted, which is whether I would enjoy drinking any more now than I used to--now that I have no significant pressures in my life.

The answer is no--I don't. I'm sure others have a different experience, and I'm speaking only for myself and my own interests. That being said, how people manage to make a habit of drinking alcohol is a genuine curiosity.

The need to not do it because it's not legal doesn't even enter the picture if I want to not do it because it sucks ass and I don't like it.

As for others--I honestly hope they enjoy themselves if they find it an enjoyable activity. I leave plenty of room on this for differences in psychology, body-chemistry, etc.. For myself, however, I was vividly reminded last night why I threw it away in the first place. Besides, there are plenty of legitimate things I can put in my body that I thoroughly enjoy. A Stanford omelette at Hobee's restaurant, for example, was my drink of choice this morning--with some damned good coffee. I swear Hobee's is where omelettes go when they die.


Alcohol though? Fuck it. It's just gross.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193852 - 10/14/06 03:03 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024

You speak for yourself, and your abstinence from alcohol is admirable because it gives you pleasure.

Personally, I find that I enjoy a Scotch after a hard day at work... Not a bottle, just a small glass or two on the rocks. On ocassion, I even tip back a few cold bottles of Guiness. I see nothing wrong with it. Consuming alcohol is perfectly legal, so long as you are responsible enough to avoid the operation heavy machinery and vehicles.

I find it ironic that you speak of the lack of benefit in drinking. Just yesterday, I saw a television program on the benefits of social drinking. It turns out that, according to the study, people who social drink statistically earn more money. The researcher who conducted this study noted that this phenomenon is likely rooted in the drinkers' broader social networks. From that perspective, it might not be a stroke of genius to consider that people who play golf also statistically make more money.

Is it hard to imagine someone being addicted to golf? Perhaps it is hard to imagine, though I am sure there are those out there who would rather and do play golf to the detriment of matters more important to their well-being.

I say, if you rule it rather than it ruling you, it is perfectly okay. If you rule it, but the law of the land in which you live prohibits it, then you really are in no control when you do it; therefor, it is indeed perfectly not okay.

_________________________

Refuse to die.

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#193853 - 10/14/06 03:06 PM On Alcohol [Re: Quiddity]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
When people compare alcohol to illegal drugs, they often overlook the concept of moderation. I've never smoked crack, but I'm guessing that you can't just "have a hit or two" and remain a coherent being.

When I drink alcohol, I drink because I like the taste of what I am drinking, or because the drink compliments the meal. I do not set out to get drunk, and moreover I rarely even drink enough to "catch a buzz". There isn't a holier than thou agenda here, but I want to make it clear that motives for drinking exist which do not revolve around getting fucked up.

If you are judging the merits of alcohol upon your experiments, which involve drinking to get drunk, than I have to conclude that your perspective on alcohol is flawed.
The crux of the problem would seem(from observation) to be a combination of weak will and an obsession with proving that your actions are justified.

The fact that you know you don't like drinking, and yet you indulge to the point of discomfort reinforces such an assertion.
_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193854 - 10/14/06 03:34 PM Re: On Alcohol [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

The fact that you know you don't like drinking, and yet you indulge to the point of discomfort reinforces such an assertion.




I suppose in a rigid, feet-to-the-fire manner, you might have a point. I remembered it not being worth it--but figured the cost of being wrong basically a night's discomfort, and not on the scale of a nuclear winter or anything. That's what I was trying to find out--whether the pleasure to bother ratio had changed for me. It's been years, and I wondered if anything had changed. It hasn't.

Again, I am not projecting my ideas onto other people--just adding my experience to the board. If I have overlooked this or that detail, I don't really care. To dive into protracted debate on the matter would lend it a priority I can't really justify. I don't get enough from it to go that far out of my way.

I just figured I'd add my small discovery in case it might be of interest to others.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193855 - 10/14/06 03:53 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
When you toot your horn you sure do toot the blasted thing.

If a person enjoys alcohol on a responsible level and can understand his own limits and desires then he has every right to drink it. Again, over indulgence when it comes to alcohol is not indulgent in my opinion. A nice drink here or there to ease me is a treat. I drink moderately and I enjoy the taste and even enjoy being a bit tipsy. Tipsy is a nice feeling where I am still in complete control. Drunk and stumbling is something I find extremely uncomfortable, hence why I don’t drink to that point. I also think drinking in public is not always a good idea (depending on the situation) or even being in an area with a large drunk crowd.

I really don't see why alcohol is such a problem for people. It is really not that hard to avoid over drinking. However, the same goes for almost anything in life. There is a limit where a treat can become a pain, give or take. People should learn to control themselves or just don’t partake in it.

I can respect a man who says he hates the feeling that even a little bit of alcohol gives or even the taste of it in general. That is his right and not one single idiot can tell him otherwise. But to condemn others for drinking responsibly is just poor judgment.

I like to use cars as an analogy because I work around them. There is a shit load of horrible drivers out there with no sense of responsibility. But there are decent drivers who are safe and responsible. I am not about to state that everyone should avoid driving because there are morons who don’t have a clue. It is like firearms.

This is the same argument as cigarettes. I think cigarettes do more long term damage than alcohol, so there is more weight to not indulging in it, but they can both be indulged in responsibly.

I won't get into illegal drugs because that discussion always goes to la-la land.

I am going to fix myself a drink now.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#193856 - 10/14/06 04:42 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: TheAbysmal]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Basically that TV program was a big propaganda thing for the alcohol industry then. There's no way that successful people all over the world, have made decisions and business deals while being drunk or even tipsy to gain their success.
I've rejected business deals in the past and will do in the future with people that obviously where/are drunk or tipsy.
Serious matters are debated in a serious way, that's how i see it. Money matters and business matters are talked about in a sober and clear headed way.
I don't trust people that are getting their courage and guts through the use of alcohol.. Self preservation..i draw the line all the way. But that's my way of dealing with business then
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#193857 - 10/14/06 06:06 PM Alcohol & Smoking: Enjoyment Through Practice? [Re: Discipline]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

When you toot your horn you sure do toot the blasted thing.




I thought I was pretty clear about respecting differences and speaking only for myself--as well as basing my thoughts on preference rather than morality. I don't really see that it is a matter of bragging at all--nor am I suggesting anything to others.

QUOTE: "As for others--I honestly hope they enjoy themselves if they find it an enjoyable activity. I leave plenty of room on this for differences in psychology, body-chemistry, etc.."

I notice you mention smoking also. The "enjoyment" of the taste of alcohol strikes me similar to that of "enjoying" smoking. I remember the first time I smoked and I would describe the experience as anything but enjoyable. Alcohol seems the same in that both are enjoyable because they are being done on a regular basis--rather than the other way around. I'm sure many would disagree with me--and that's fine too. It's not of sufficient importance that we need agreement either way.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193858 - 10/14/06 06:09 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: x9x]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

Basically that TV program was a big propaganda thing for the alcohol industry then.




What are you talking about? I don't know what you mean.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193859 - 10/14/06 07:33 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:


Alcohol though? Fuck it. It's just gross.




Oh, damn me...I was just reading this while indulging a fine Calvados with my coffee... If I knew it was gross....Bad frenchy...Baaad.

Instead of going from an extreme to another one, walk the fine line people !


Edited by Assabrah (10/14/06 07:34 PM)
_________________________
Has left the board.

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#193860 - 10/14/06 07:43 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Assabrah]
MagisterRose Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 2404
Quote:

Instead of going from an extreme to another one, walk the fine line people




Some people find such subtleties forever beyond their grasp.
_________________________
Empty heads babble the most.

The good die young... because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good.
John Barrymore

HARDCOVER INFERNALIA

PAPERBACK INFERNALIA

HARDCOVER KASIDAH

PAPERBACK KASIDAH

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#193861 - 10/14/06 07:44 PM Re: Alcohol & Smoking: Enjoyment Through Practice? [Re: Quiddity]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
My comment was more to do with your previous post, the one where you posted under the influence. It seems you have something to prove even as others have pointed out that you knew you did not enjoy it.

We disagree with the enjoyment factor. It is obvious you cannot make the connection between compulsiveness and indulgence. A sky diver does it for the thrill even though it is dangerous. The more often a sky diver makes the jump the more he increases his chances of potential death.

Moderation.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#193862 - 10/14/06 07:50 PM Re: On Alcohol [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
I have some kind of drink on a regular basis, at times I drink nearly daily, yet I almost never get even mildly "warm" from drinking. It helps that I can have about four drinks without really feeling it, but if my limit was two beers, I'd probably stop at one beer. I have no desire to lose control, but I also see no reason to deny myself the pleasure of tasting the finest beverages in the world. I can no more imagine why I would want to give up scotch and schwartzbier than I can imagine wanting to give up steak and shrimp.

The crux of the whole matter is that it is entirely possible for a responsible person to enjoy a beer or a whiskey, and not diminish his awareness or induce sickness, or risk any kind of liver damage. Having two drinks per day has even been linked to living longer. Whether this is because alcohol has some beneficial effect or because people who know how to enjoy themselves without hurting themselves just have more common sense and consequently enjoy life more is something I'll leave to the drinker to decide.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193863 - 10/14/06 10:37 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: x9x]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024

I was a tad vague, so I understand your response. I agree that closing a business deal under the influence of alcohol is silly business. I am also sure it does nevertheless happen. Likewise, I agree that alcohol is a poor substitution for true courage. Few things are as funny to me as watching a dolt drink himself into oblivion to work up enough courage to puke all over the girl he has been dying to chat up all night.

The benefits to social drinking of which I spoke are the leads, tips, and perhaps rungs up the "social ladder", if you catch my drift. The television program I sited followed this same line of thinking. I do not hold it for gospel, but it does make some sense: The broader you build your social network; whether through drinking, golfing, or selling Girl Scout Cookies, the more likely you are to have opportunities of which to take advantage.

Drinking socially has benefitted me in the work place... in the military. Through socializing with the higher ups over a couple of drinks on occasion, I beleive I helped foster in them a greater sense of loyalty and longevity than I could have fostered through my results on the job alone. I even received a nicer going away present--I think--than many of my peers who have moved from that section to other positions. Drinking is no solitary means to any good end, I will say, but the right amount at the right time with the right people can help.

Of course, I am sure through drinking, networking can get you into trouble if you are stupid about it. How many instances of insider trading took place over a brew at the bar? I can only wonder.

_________________________

Refuse to die.

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#193864 - 10/14/06 10:40 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12571
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...


"Oh, my. We are in trouble now, aren't we."

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#193865 - 10/15/06 10:51 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Lust]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Agreed.

It really is quite a lovely summary.

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#193866 - 10/15/06 11:55 AM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Nemo]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Who is this? I assume it is a reference from a movie.

He looks like one of the guys from Deadwood.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193867 - 10/15/06 11:58 AM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
That's the irascible groundskeeper from the Harry Potter movies.

"God, I miss the screams."

_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#193868 - 10/15/06 12:09 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quaark]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:

That's the irascible groundskeeper from the Harry Potter movies.

"God, I miss the screams."






Damn. I suppose I'm going to have to go watch the movies to get the joke.


By the way, Daark--I love your avatar. If this was a picture of a dancing midget, I would have understood immediately.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193869 - 10/15/06 12:30 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

I'm all for confronting and training your inner demons, turning liabilities into advantages, instead of medicating into oblivion.




Very well said.


Quote:

From the Satanic point of view, pleasure should be considered in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion.




A lovely summary that could really have been your entire response.


Quote:

I will concede that pot is not as bad as alcohol, but smoking it is as bad or worse for you than cigarrettes.




After reading about both, I've decided marijuana is probably one of the least offensive drugs ever. It is, however, illegal, so that doesn't matter except for me to be informed.

Erowid Cannabis (Marijuana) Vault
Erowid Tobacco Vault
Smoke and Mirrors

Erowid I like, very much, because it is straightforward and informative, not biased. The last is biased, but so far as I've seen, true.


Quote:

Really, if all the people who have drinking problems sat at home and ate marijuana cookies or hash brownies, they and the world would be better off,
but nothing that rational is going to happen in our lifetime.




Sadly.


Quote:

Even if it were legal, it has decades of idiotic cultural baggage.




VERY much agreed.


Quote:

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting




Also very much agreed. This is the one I'm going to rant a bit on, because I've recently found I HATE Ecstasy and the stereotypical person that takes it. I hadn't thought much about this until someone mentioned this rave, and how they were "rolling", then it caught my interest. I wanted to know what "rolling" meant and what drug you took to do so, because I hate not being "in the loop" about slang and such. A lot. Anyway... I read about the drug. Eh, whatever. Surprised a bit that you can technically drown yourself because of how thirtsty you feel. I read a little more and found this out: it wasn't the drug that disgusted me so. It was the users.

Not that they're desperate; that's sad and pathetic but not the extreme turn-off.
Even the cuddle puddles weren't the BIG thing.

Of all things to make me NOT want to try a drug or associate with people that use it...


.


It's the fact that these people use pacifiers.
Binkys.
Grown adults. Chewing those things you give to infants to comfort them.
That's kind of like sucking your thumb at 30, to me.

.


Ecstasy makes them grind their jaws, so they go out and buy binkys then proceed to gnaw on them while sniffing Vick's VapoRub and exchanging hour-long back rubs while listeing to music so loud the floor vibrates and watching pretty dancing lights.

This is just gross, and immature, and sad. How fucked up must reality be for them, that they have to flee to the pretty lights and a drug that makes you need to be touched in any way? Supposedly if you take Ecstasy once, you can never reach that same level of "happy" again without it.

Anyway, I'm done. I just wanted to say, I heartily agree with you, it is disgusting and, I think, quite pathetic and desperate.

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#193870 - 10/15/06 12:34 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8865
The Harry Potter movies are quite enjoyable for set design and art direction if nothing else.

Also, the musical theme by John Williams is quintessentially "Halloweenish".

***

Twin Peaks is of course immortal genius - see Eraserhead if you haven't already. Lynch's first film while still a starving student, it's been called flawless by many major directors.

And Angelo Badalamenti's score for the TV series is the best TV has ever known.

But you probably knew all that.

***

Not to insult your choice of avatar, but the only thought I have when viewing it is:

Mystical Mickey Mouse

or

Disney Does Illuminati

Sorry.

_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#193871 - 10/15/06 01:09 PM Avatar [Re: Quaark]
Quiddity Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 2021
Loc: CA
Quote:


Not to insult your choice of avatar, but the only thought I have when viewing it is:

Mystical Mickey Mouse

or

Disney Does Illuminati

Sorry.






Just FYI, my avatar was not chosen but designed. My priority was not cuteness or fashionability. Here is copy of my original description of it's design. I've since added the Eye in Pyramid, for reasons that make perfect sense when the rest is understood.


My sigil is an attempt to display REASON geometrically, in the simplest, and most direct representation possible, applicable to the architecture of exploration and discovery. It is an effort in simplicity rather than comprehensiveness.

Geometry provides a quickened means to represent the graceful equilibrium between the ease of extraction of useful results in an exploration, and the means/questions that produce them. Results (The logician's "THEREFORE"--the three points in pyramid) are rendered in their most useful form by the most coordinated arrangement of questions (e.g., content, relation, applicability, sequence, timing, etc.).

Put simply, "if I don't fully understand it--it's probably not because I can't, but because I haven't asked the right questions, in the right way, about the right things." Rather than focus on the answers, I focus on the questions, with the conviction that when the questions are arranged properly, the solution (the "THEREFORE") will be obvious.

The center piece, the lemniscate with the 1's and 0 represents precision of an idea's identification, and the central role of QUIDDITY (that attribute that makes a thing what it is and not something else). The presence of two 1's, describes the dynamic nature of quiddity--that a thing (or idea) may, in both form and recognition, be one thing now, but change into another, in harmony with the rise and fall of one's awareness of quiddity. The apparent singularity and centicity of the 0 represents the point where Quiddity is up against the wall long enough to enable accurate identification and effective action. The symbol is displayed as a 2D representation of a 3D idea--in that there are actually two 0's, but their position overlays each other at the moment of truth, like 2 portions of the site on a rifle.

I am becoming increasingly aware that an inability to comprehend a thing often has more to do with the difficulty of extraction from a sloppy architecture, than ability to grasp an idea. My greatest enjoyment is when the components of the architecture take proper place, and the neurons connect with a loud, satisfying "CLICK". This scarlet thread of satisfaction in discovery runs through the entire universe. It is my indulgence to unravel and experience every inch of it.
_________________________
Obscurum per Obscurius: Ignotum per Ignotius.

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#193872 - 10/15/06 01:49 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
dadam5314 Offline


Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 98
Loc: California, USA
Since I'm in my second year of college at a notable "party" school, I see a lot of people indulge in alcohol. Thats fine as longas theu do it responsibly but for the majority of the time its not the case at all. Last year I lived in the dormitories and more importantly on the floor designated for people studying to be mechanical, aerospace, and elictrical engineers and all I have to say is that if they truly represent the future of american technology, I just might invest in a different country. Every single night they drank until they either passed out on the bathroom floor or vomited to their heart's content. This was far beyond the boundaries of "responsible drinking".

I certainly did not trust anyone their because they proved to be very immature and unresponsible. One time there was this man that had overdrawn from his bank account on more than one occasion just so he could pay someone an obscene amount of money for alcohol because he was under the legal drinking age. Stupidity should really hurt. It just makes me wonder why someone would do something like that just to drink until they vomit and look like a complete imbicile in doing so.

I went around asking a few individuals at my school on why they would act in this manner andall they had to say was "its the college experience WHOOOOOO!" I gave up on asking these young kids and I don't think I'll get a good answer anytime soon.
_________________________
HS!

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#193873 - 10/15/06 02:00 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: dadam5314]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:

Every single night they drank until they either passed out on the bathroom floor or vomited to their heart's content.




Every school is the same, regardless of reputation. Call me juvenile, but everytime I see some idiot vomiting in a garbage can, toilet, or someone's mouth, I think it's funny.

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#193874 - 10/15/06 02:01 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: euol]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I JUST learned about this two days ago, actually.

On Friday, some friends and I took the bus to the mall. A bunch of middle-schoolers got on and one scruffy-looking girl had a string of pacifiers around her neck. I was totally mystified by this baby bling-bling, and I mentioned it to a friend later, and he explained the whole thing to me.

I was appalled on so many levels.

Supposedly if you take Ecstasy once, you can never reach that same level of "happy" again without it.

And that's my main objection to drugs: they can permanently alter the chemistry of your body, and worse, your brain. I can tell the people who seriously smoked pot in high school from the people who didn't, for example.

Oh, and in high school, one of my classmates' sisters took some X and basically drowned herself with water, and died.

What's so bad about reality, anyway, so that people feel they have to mask it with chemicals?

Can't people give each other naked back rubs and snuggles without X?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193875 - 10/15/06 02:08 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Zaftig]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Yup.

In my hometown, on the night of the first day of classes at the local college, I saw two fellows drag this guy over and dump him under a bush. I thought it was hilarious. I was hanging out with a friend, eating ice cream, and I had a yen to go poke the guy with a stick later, but he had evidentally gotten up or had been dragged to a new spot by the time I got around to wanting to do it. Damn.

When I've told the story to other people, they've occasionally been mortified by my attitude. They find the drunkenness funny, and they find goofing around with drunk people funny, but are not amused by cold-hearted disdain or mockery of it. Oh well, their loss.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193876 - 10/15/06 02:10 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
>>Can't people give each other naked back rubs and snuggles without X?

That is too funny.

To solve the world's problems we should all indulge in cuddle parties.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#193877 - 10/15/06 02:14 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Discipline]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Cuddle parties could do a lot of good, you know. I could certainly use one.

And I'm sure it could all be done while everyone present was sober.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193878 - 10/15/06 02:18 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
In my experience, drugs and acohol seriously hamper any sort of sexually charged situation.
Personally I like to be 100% present on such occasions
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#193879 - 10/15/06 02:26 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Dan_Dread]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
That is my experience as well.

People on drugs or alcohol may be "ready to go," but they're so muddled that you can't trust them to perform responsibly, appropriately, or competently.

And yes, I completely agree that I want to be "present" when I have sex, not only for my own safety, but for my own enjoyment, too.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193880 - 10/15/06 02:27 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
Can't people give each other naked back rubs and snuggles without X?

That's what dating is for. A certain person might even get one out of a curmudgeonly bastard like me.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#193881 - 10/15/06 03:21 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:

Cuddle parties could do a lot of good, you know. I could certainly use one.




I went travelling for six months, and despite having a great time, what I missed most was touch.
I hadn't been hugged by one of mes proches(the people close to me) in all that time.
Fortunately they made up for it on my return.

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#193882 - 10/15/06 03:23 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
In the immortal words of Bill_M: "Satan represents hugs for those who deserve them!"
_________________________
reprobate

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#193883 - 10/15/06 03:37 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Zaftig]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Yes, it's amazing how much touch and intimacy can mean to me. I'm kind of a touch-whore.

I'm not a big hugger per se--mostly because of the opportunities for awkwardness, failure, being taken by surprise, or being crushed--but I do love physical contact, especially back rubs.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193884 - 10/15/06 05:06 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

Can't people give each other naked back rubs and snuggles without X?




I happen to enjoy being the reciever of back rubs, and I haven't ever tried Ecstasy. Maybe it's better with it, but I prefer just liking and not desperately *needing* the back rubs.


Quote:

What's so bad about reality, anyway, so that people feel they have to mask it with chemicals?




It saddens me that some people don't realize that this reality actually is exactly as fucked up as we make it. I *make* mine pleasant enough that I don't have to alter it with drugs. This doesn't mean my life is perfect, because, of course, it is not. I just arrange things in what I view is the best possible way, expecting good outcomes, and when those don't come along, I toughen up. I don't flee from my life, and I think to do so is the ultimate weakness.


Quote:

And that's my main objection to drugs: they can permanently alter the chemistry of your body, and worse, your brain.




That is precisely my objection, that it alters your brain. I HATE my brain being changed -- I hate drinking alcohol, even a little, because I get a little too ditzy. I despise the way it makes me feel. Not being in complete control of myself and my actions and emotions bothers me, a lot.

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#193885 - 10/15/06 06:13 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: euol]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia

Quote:

Quote:

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting




Also very much agreed. This is the one I'm going to rant a bit on, because I've recently found I HATE Ecstasy and the stereotypical person that takes it. I hadn't thought much about this until someone mentioned this rave, and how they were "rolling", then it caught my interest. I wanted to know what "rolling" meant and what drug you took to do so, because I hate not being "in the loop" about slang and such. A lot. Anyway... I read about the drug. Eh, whatever. Surprised a bit that you can technically drown yourself because of how thirtsty you feel. I read a little more and found this out: it wasn't the drug that disgusted me so. It was the users.




I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft. I may be wrong. At any rate, there's a big difference between taking xtasy and prozac to alleviate the depression brought on by the reality that all is not as it seems. I think that difference is really only a matter of the level of need one has. How deep off the reality scale do you want to go. Change of brain wave patterns or just a little chemical alteration, as in serotonin levels.

I do think there is a place for legally utilized mood altering medications. For example someone who is depressed by a situation in life and needs to get over it, may be helped by a med that will kick start their brains into making the necessary moves required to change things. Or someone that has an anxiety disorder and needs meds to help alleviate the anxiety enough to function normally.

On the other hand, there are those who use the meds to compensate for a weak mind. They languish in self pity and run to a doctor to magically change their pathetic lives.

Weak minded people need a crutch to lean on (be it legal or otherwise) to make it through their pathetic lives while they cling to the hope that death is better. Now that's sad.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#193886 - 10/15/06 06:22 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: dragondancer]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft.




Ah... you're probably very, very right. I think it still applies, though.

Quote:

I do think there is a place for legally utilized mood altering medications. For example someone who is depressed by a situation in life and needs to get over it, may be helped by a med that will kick start their brains into making the necessary moves required to change things. Or someone that has an anxiety disorder and needs meds to help alleviate the anxiety enough to function normally.




Although I think people need to learn to cope without, I will admit there may be some few cases where this "kick start" is necessary. While that smacks of weak mindedness, still I can understand if it is an actual mental disability that gets in the way of normal life.

Quote:

On the other hand, there are those who use the meds to compensate for a weak mind. They languish in self pity and run to a doctor to magically change their pathetic lives.

Weak minded people need a crutch to lean on (be it legal or otherwise) to make it through their pathetic lives while they cling to the hope that death is better. Now that's sad.




Agreed!

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#193887 - 10/15/06 06:57 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: dragondancer]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:

I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft. I may be wrong. At any rate, there's a big difference between taking xtasy and prozac to alleviate the depression brought on by the reality that all is not as it seems. I think that difference is really only a matter of the level of need one has. How deep off the reality scale do you want to go. Change of brain wave patterns or just a little chemical alteration, as in serotonin levels.




Yes, there is a difference. However, it's important to note that certain mental illnesses like situational depression (even if long-term) is meant to be temporarily alleviated by pharmacotherapy in conjuction with psychotherapy. There is often a great resisitance to get off the meds once on them. And to a few, it just becomes their new addiction.

Certain other mental illnesses (bipolar disorder, schizophrenia) usually require life long medication. But in all cases, the patient has the best results when they are consciously monitoring their own moods to maintain stability. An understanding and supportive family (more and more common) helps greatly in this matter.

Bipolar disorder can also be treated with vitamine therapy, once already stable on synthetic meds, a gradual weening can occur. But that takes an encredible amount of self discipline and is not suitable for all patients.

If the anecdotal evidence I witness at work everyday is any indication, these drugs are not effective for everybody. The right dose and combination is paramount to maintaining quality of life. But don't believe Tom Cruise. Mental illness is very real. He does a disservice to those requiring help by promoting otherwise.

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#193888 - 10/16/06 12:36 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
Emily Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

I can even give him credit for my finding Satanism, as I am sure a lot of folks could credit him the same.



Although I never was a huge Manson fan, when I originally decided to look into Satanism, I had also known less than "truly Satanic" individuals as the initial source of my curiosity regarding the CoS.

I remember feeling rather embarassed that I was reading LaVey's works because of the "influence" of these people.

Now I realize that these individuals were not my reason for learning about Satanism and eventually joining the CoS. Since Satanists are born and not made, most of us find our way here through what ever path happens to be there at the time. If I hadn't known those people when I did, I probably would have had different experiences that brought me here.

I think the same applies to Manson. Many people looked into the CoS after reading his book The Long Hard Road Out of Hell. I suspect they would still be Satanists even if they had never read this book. (I never did.)
_________________________
"As within, so without. If you do not have happiness within you, you will never find it outside of you."

The underhanded manipulator is akin to the woman who stuffs her bra, or the man who wears a codpiece. When it comes down to business, the goods are revealed, and any inadequacies are subsequently exposed.

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#193889 - 10/16/06 05:21 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
I cannot be said enough it seems; indulgence not compulsion. It's that simple and I cannot help but smirk when I see another self-proclaimed 'Satanist' passing out because he/she had way too much to drink, snort or whatnot.
Satanism is all about taking control over your life and not giving control out of hands to whatever it is.

Frankly it's rather absurd that a topic like this comes up every time because if you fail to get this you'll never understand the philosophy as a whole.
Taking control of your own life is the very first, if not only, and most important step.

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#193890 - 10/16/06 12:05 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Emily]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Hello, fellow Coloradoan. Your kitty looks like he's a in a tough spot there!

The Internet introduced me to Satanism---an America Online chat room, to be precise. Manson's music came after the fact, after I got into Nine Inch Nails' music for a time.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193891 - 10/16/06 02:37 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1512
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
I think if you have to resort to mind-altering drugs to enjoy and take pleasure in your life, then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions and re-evaluate your life.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton

JustinR on The Undercroft


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#193892 - 10/18/06 04:36 PM LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Svengali]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Sorry that I'm late to the discussion, and thanks for bringing up this topic, Magister Svengali. Every once and a while the drug addled morons who seep into LttD need a reality check, and I'd like to contribute to it, if I may.

Both Satanism as a philosophy and religion, along with the Church of Satan as an organization are very clear on the issue of drugs and substance abuse. There are many who would love to redefine what the CoS and Satanism is in order to have it match closer to what they would like it to be. Often, they turn a blind eye to...

1. The majority of substances out there which are considered drugs are illegal. The Church of Satan condones no illegal activities.

2. Satanism is about seeing the world for what it truly is. This is hardly possible while under the influence of a drug.

3. A Satanist is in complete control of him/herself and strives to control the environment that he/she is in. Drugs hinder one's ability to do either.

4. Because drugs can kill you, land you in years of prison confinement, and shorten your life span, they very much get in the way of living a full life which Satanism champions.

I could continue this list, but I think I hit the major ones...

If you are one of those who like to imagine that LaVey agrees with all of that, but also agrees with the idea of doing what you want behind closed doors, hush hush, mum's the word, let me quote The Satanic Witch for you (which most of the drug users who find their way here from time to time never bother to read, I'm sure):

"After a formidably productive experience under the influence of an hallucigenic drug there is often a profound assumption of mystical or magical power. The assumption is, of course, confined solely to the user of the drug, but let no one attempt to deter her from her chemically produced reality!... no experience will quite come up to that which the drug has supplied, so, therefore, the drug will become the criteria-producing device for her self-assumed prowess."

Now, pay close attention to the next part...

"Let me state categorically at this point that drugs are antithetical to the practice of magic, as they tend to disassociate the user from reality, even though he oftentimes thinks himself closer."

And furthermore...

"If you are to be a successful witch, faith helps, but it takes a good deal more. If, however, you do not plan on practicing witchcraft but only believing in it, use all the drugs you like."

Drugs cause you to believe things that are not true. They waste your time, your money, your health, and your safety. A few glasses of a fine wine or an expensive whiskey (or what have you) is one thing. Getting shitfaced on the weekend (or I suppose for some of you, during the working week) with any drug, be it legal or not, is a completely different thing, and hardly the behavior of a master of reality, also known as, a Satanist.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#193893 - 10/18/06 05:15 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
1:
Quote:

The Church of Satan condones no illegal activities.




The biggie that sums up quite a bit, quite nicely.

2:
Quote:

hardly the behavior of a master of reality




*applause* I love the way that was put.

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#193894 - 10/18/06 05:16 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
AAAAAAAAAAA+++++++++++++++++++++++++
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193895 - 10/18/06 11:51 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
You have a talent for words that I envy.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193896 - 10/19/06 12:38 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Grima]
Tetsuo Offline


Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Germany,Europe,World,Universe
I'm proud of myself that I never start smoking, I only took one puff in my whole life and start being sick for hours which leads me to the fact the smoking makes me ill (vomit, not forget to mention cancer - many family-related and also friends or people I know died or 'just got ill' etc.).
Second is that I never start taking really hard drugs first it's illegal, second it isn't healthy.
Years ago I also joined a "scene" called straight edge (invented by Minor Thread, band from the US - more info click this Link ) but then I left the scene and start enjoy the taste of wine, beer or whatever not to get drunk but because I like the taste and it's a luxury sometimes. But it's not impossible that I'll be without any kind of a drug (incl. also alcohol and of course all the other drugs..), but at the moment my life's under pretty nice control by myself and not by any of mentioned drugs and that's OK.

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#193897 - 10/19/06 12:48 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Tetsuo]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Just for the record... I HATE "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits.


Edited by Drimlybunk (10/19/06 12:54 AM)

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#193898 - 10/19/06 02:34 AM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I think this post should be made a sticky.

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#193899 - 10/19/06 06:34 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Tetsuo]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Minor Threat it is.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#193900 - 10/19/06 06:50 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Thank you.
_________________________









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#193901 - 10/19/06 10:55 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: x9x]
Tetsuo Offline


Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Germany,Europe,World,Universe
@Drimlybunk
Yeah, that's pretty much the reason why I left those kids. But I knew why I was not drinking alcohol or using drugs.


Quote:

Minor Threat it is.




Oh, failure. My fault. Thanks for correcting.

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#193902 - 10/19/06 11:45 AM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Svengali]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Thanks for the passing grade, Magister.

It often baffles me when people come to the board asking if TSW is worth reading or not. I would think that if someone was impressed enough with TSB to make their way here that they would want to get to know LaVey better, and certainly one can make some progress towards that goal by reading the larger of the books he wrote, particularly since it continues on with his personal outlook on human interaction and magic.

I would think that if I was a maggot who wanted to twist around LaVey's words on such topics as substance abuse, Crowley, Charles Manson, etc., I'd try to be a smart maggot and read all of LaVey's works first!
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#193903 - 10/19/06 11:49 AM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mr_47]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Thanks for the compliment, but I can't say I agree. I would expect Satanists to know such things already. Making this post a sticky would only help out those who need education where none should be needed, and who are too lazy to read up on the religion that they come here claiming to be a part of.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#193904 - 10/19/06 12:11 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2208
Quote:

Marilyn Manson is definately not the brightest bulb in the pack. He says and does a lot of incredibly stupid things that contradict what Dr. LaVey was about.




Need you say more?



HS!

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#193905 - 10/19/06 04:30 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
That's true. It would be spoonfeeding someone who should know better. Either way it was a good post.


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#193906 - 10/19/06 04:41 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Tetsuo]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
No problem at all, for the last 20 years i'm totally drug free, no alcohol nor smoking. I do know why i made that choice back then, and i definitely stick to it. To each his own i would say, i can't stand drunk or stoned people, neither do i like to hang out in places where there's smokers. I like to stretch my life as long as possible and the mentioned products are the last things i need in order to do that. My personal choice that often is called 'boring'..something which i don't care about.
_________________________
He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog.
||.TSB Page 33.||

An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.
|| Benjamin Franklin ||

The lack of money is the root of all evil.
|| George Bernard ||



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#193907 - 10/19/06 08:31 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
Thank you for this!
_________________________
Hell of All Hells

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#193908 - 10/19/06 08:45 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
Good response!

"There are many who would love to redefine what the CoS and Satanism is in order to have it match closer to what they would like it to be."

They are called "House Masochists".

HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#193909 - 10/22/06 10:20 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

This is a well written reply, Magister. I find anything you write to be well written anyway.

Marilyn Manson has lost it if you ask me. I was once an avid fan of his music and up until a few years ago(3-5), I could have told you just about anything you wanted to know about him. I can even give him credit for my finding Satanism, as I am sure a lot of folks could credit him the same. If it had not been for the chapters of his autobiography pertaining to his experiences with the Good Doktor, I would not have came upon The Satanic Bible when I did. I cannot speculate one way or the other as to how/if I would have discovered it otherwise, but I digress.

On the other hand, this attention I devoted to him also influenced me to wander off the path, so to speak. It was during my high school years that I hit rock bottom. I got into drugs, alcohol and general trouble all around. One day, about two years after high school, I snapped out of it. I woke up and told myself, "This is bullshit, you are destroying yourself when you should be building yourself up." Then I went through my box of books and dug out that diabolical black book and read it again. I decided I had enough with all of that. But again, I digress.

I was not actually aware of Marilyn Manson's backpedalling. Then again, I don't watch Bill O'Reilly or any other shows of that nature. This only adds to my loss of interest(the backpedalling). I still read his bio from time to time, as a sort of reminder of that period of my life when things turned around for me. I agree that he does some stupid things. I also have read some equally interesting opinions of his in the past. (See The Delusional Self)

I am not going to advocate his actions or statements, especially those in regards to his affiliation. I agree that if you backpedal, you should turn in your red card. If it wasn't for Dr. LaVey, none of us would be where we are now(CoS/Satanism). The man(Dr. LaVey) deserves every bit of respect and praise for the achievements of his lifetime and the memories he left behind. His Church is standing strong some 40 years later and moves ever forward. In a few more years, I wouldn't be surprised if Marilyn Manson is forgotten. He seems to be on that path already.

In regards to the topic at hand, I say let people make their own choices. If people use drugs and can't figure out that it is a self-destructive path, then fuck 'em. If someone is smart enough to stay away from them or realise the error of their ways and correct the problem, then good for them. Responsibility to the responsible.

Enjoy your life, don't destroy it.




Aye, I can relate to much of which you have spoken/typed.

As far as 'Brian' is concerned, I too was an avid fan. I've spoken to him (and must admit that he 'appeared' to be quite intelligent at the time of that conversation).

My opinion of him has changed however, through the years but hey, I still know a good tune when I hear it and I'll run with that regardless of what he is doing in his personal life at said given time.

Regardless of my opinion on Warner, Anton obviously 'had some appreciation for Marilyn Manson' and I do not think Anton suffered fools gladly.

Did Manson use Anton for his 'greater good'? Possibly, in fact, more than likely. This pains me but it is a part of life. Now he has millions mentioning the mere name of 'Satan'. Oh that we could all be that fortunate.

Why he would piss all over Anton and his memory is beyond my scope of rationality.

There is a saying lest we believe it or not..... what goes around comes around and I do feel that Manson's longevity is.....not that long.

He's made his bed let him lie in it.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#193910 - 10/22/06 02:52 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10571
Loc: England
I think one of my favorite actors, Vincent Gallo, offers a hugely Satanic perspective in regards to drug use:

"One of the reasons I have such a negative reaction to pot is that most of the ways people take it. They smoke it. The side effect is that there are fumes. Since it is a narcotic, I find it quite rude that people smoke it publicly. The same fuckin' hippy cocksuckers who protest a plastics plant: it is okay that they dose me with this evil narcotic. The real problem I have with drugs is that it is incredibly mainstream behavior. All the drug addicts who think they are so interesting, they remind me of television. That's how prime-time they are. There is no aesthetic to taking drugs."
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#193911 - 10/22/06 02:58 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Jesus...

You take this guy seriously?
If this is the picture of sobriety, than I fear for the world of the sober!




Attachments
378107-gallo.jpg (68 downloads)

_________________________
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)

Olio/Etcetera

Flesh and Bones
_______________

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
~ Charles Bukowski


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#193912 - 10/25/06 06:29 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

I think one of my favorite actors, Vincent Gallo, offers a hugely Satanic perspective in regards to drug use:

"One of the reasons I have such a negative reaction to pot is that most of the ways people take it. They smoke it. The side effect is that there are fumes. Since it is a narcotic, I find it quite rude that people smoke it publicly. The same fuckin' hippy cocksuckers who protest a plastics plant: it is okay that they dose me with this evil narcotic. The real problem I have with drugs is that it is incredibly mainstream behavior. All the drug addicts who think they are so interesting, they remind me of television. That's how prime-time they are. There is no aesthetic to taking drugs."




I am allergic to 'pot'. I have been in public places where there are those who are smoking it openly and I MUST leave the room which happens to be of great annoyance to me.

I won't smoke a fag in front of those who do not wish to take in the fumes/smoke either. I believe it to be rude and will always ask when in mixed company if smoking bothers them before lighting up.

I work in a DOT sensitive posistion and it would be quite hard to explain how 'pot' got into my system if I was randomly tested.

I can see it now:

"Uhhh errr I was at this party sitting in a room full of pot smoke and it got into my blood stream from the mere inhaling of it".

Job gone case closed.

I cannot risk such things and remove myself from the company of illegal drug users.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#193913 - 10/26/06 09:22 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Minus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 2236
Loc: Circling A Star
The following video shows the horrors that recreational drug use can cause...
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Minus

"When the great lord passes, the wise peasant bows deeply and silently farts."
-Ethiopian Proverb

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#193914 - 10/26/06 09:35 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Minus]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193915 - 10/26/06 10:38 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Drimlybunk]
Psychotherapeut Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 456
Quote:

Just for the record... I HATE "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits.




The funny thing about the straight edge movement, is that it is completely off-base from it's founding ideals. It was not a movement of abstinence. It was a movement of self-control. If you smoked a cigarette, fine, just don't get yourself addicted to smoking. If you had a beer, fine, just don't get drunk. It seems like everyone distorted it so it would better fit the sunday school punk rocker profile. I would actually akin the original ideals more to those of Satanism. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that was the actual influence…


On topic, Mason Rust, that was indeed an amazing post. People too often contend that it is their right to partake in what they wish, when in fact, the truth is quite the opposite in most countries.
_________________________
Mein Leben, Meine Chance

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#193916 - 10/26/06 08:53 PM Re: My Alcohol Experiment [Re: Quiddity]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
A) It's called Denial
B) Go to Skid Row or a Rehab and see the result of other's who engaged in the "experiment" and see what happened to them.
If you feel that must try to control your drinking then you probably have a problem, people who drink "normally" don't have to control their drinking.
When you drink Alcohol, a chemical reaction will take place, it is inevitable, so trying to control it is as fruitless as controlling Diarrhea.
External pressures has nothing to do with how alcohol affects the body. You know that you drink, and if you drink enough you get drunk, that is a scientific fact did you honestly think you could drink alcohol and not get drunk?
This makes as much sense as someone that is 30 yearas old sticking their hand on a hot stove when they did the same thing at age 5. "Hmmm maybe I won't get burnt this time."

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#193917 - 10/28/06 06:35 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
IMMORTAL809 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 14
Loc: US
In the FWIW ctatgory, I think alcoholic beverages should be illegal. More people have died from the use of such than most other substances, it destroys families, causes permanent damage to the organs, can be severly addicting, and while true it's been around for several millenia, that doesn't mean it's OK. I too agree at some point with Svengali about the effects of pot vs alcohol. There is a problem with it though since as for right now it's illegal. It's illegal to even have traces of it in your system as it relates to employment (evil_eve). And I constantly ask why.

ANY substance can be abused. Anyone who makes recreational substances a "way of life" are indeed losers and the rest of us are better off without them in our lives. In my youth I used pot on occasion and truely enjoyed it. I'm one of those that no matter the amount, a couple puffs, a pinch in a brownie, a whole damn bag, the effect is limited. Any increased amount over the effect may extend the time but no more. I guess I've always been a "cheap date" in that regard. Everyones physiology is different. Some can't handle any of it, legal or not. I've read many studies both positive and negative regarding pot and tend to be more of a proponent than to oppose legalizing. Will I take up a cause to that end? Nope. Not my bag (no pun intended). I have enough personal causes to champion for. The "gateway to hard drugs" argument is a crutch for the uninformed and any relevence is due to how it must be aquired...illegally.

In the end, we must co-exist with society. Until things change I have no choice but to view use of such things as negative and potentially self-destructive. There's nothing "dark" about chronic drug use. Except where it must be done, and what a lie to one's self at that point. I suppose my position to not totally condemn the use of pot may be related to some of it's history, as well as the fact that it too is an organic substance that comes from the very ground WE all come from. I find it moderately angers me that society (laws) and many organized groups tend to frown upon the individual rights one has to sample, use, or simply experiance things that nature itself has provided. Does that mean all that nature provides is good? Of course not. But for some of it, moderation and self respect can go a long way in the pursuit of happiness and hedonism. Or as you put it Svengali, "...in contrast to self-destruction and compulsion."

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?


Edited by IMMORTAL809 (10/28/06 06:37 PM)

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#193918 - 10/28/06 07:36 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: IMMORTAL809]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Quote:

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?




There is no "Marilyn Manson version" of Satanism, there is just Satanism and Idiots trying to make the wrong size shoe fit.

It is probably hard to pick a real Satanist out of a crowd because a real Satanist is unlikely to be in the crowd.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193919 - 10/28/06 09:20 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Prometheus Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: Germany
I enjoyed reading your reflections on this issue a lot, Magister. The argumentation is absolutely concise & outlines the problem precisely.

My understanding of Satanism has always been that it is all about being on the winner's side in all regards. Clouding one's mind with narcotic substances can be seen as the exact example for playing the loser's game, if not immediately then certainly in the long run. However, already a period of intoxicated inactivity may do to place a person into a position of severe disadvantage & might in some severe cases also have lethal consequences.

Aside from this, equating indulgence & recreational drug abuse, as those who favour this habit tend to do, appears to be a thoroughly programmed misconception. There is a point when the urge for the substance substitutes the consumer's free will. His deafened sensed are far from truly indulgent expereiences. His strategy to negate any destructive effect of the drug are precise evidence for how his sensatory abilities are dying off.

By far not the best pre-conditions to succede regarding self-preservation & thus preserving an indulgent future when there is potential for a sparkling delighful future.


_________________________

HAIL SATAN!

Prometheus











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#193920 - 10/29/06 06:21 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
IMMORTAL809 Offline


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 14
Loc: US
Quote:

Quote:

If I had to compare such things, look at the Marilyn Mason version of Satanism and look at what it may truely be for yourself. I'm thinking it's pretty damned hard to pick a true satanist out of a crowd. Does that make sense?




There is no "Marilyn Manson version" of Satanism, there is just Satanism and Idiots trying to make the wrong size shoe fit.

It is probably hard to pick a real Satanist out of a crowd because a real Satanist is unlikely to be in the crowd.





Exactly...however I meant the version as you described, not that one exists. Thank you for your insights on the subject.

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#193921 - 10/29/06 07:01 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: IMMORTAL809]
DataLore Offline


Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 441
Loc: Holodeck 3
Quote:

I suppose my position to not totally condemn the use of pot may be related to some of it's history, as well as the fact that it too is an organic substance that comes from the very ground WE all come from.




As well Arsenic, Radium, Mercury, Lead, Uranium, and countless other hazardous materials come from the ground from which we all come from. Including all drugs.

So what is your argument other than "it occurs naturally" I could name countless other naturally occurring substances that are harmful to one's health (both physiologically and psychologically) and even fatal.

There are even people who come from the ground "We all come from" that can be detrimental to one's health.

Think about it.

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#193922 - 11/13/06 11:56 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
InquiringTruth Offline


Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 14
I appreciate your post Magister.

It is amazing the multitude of posts that have been posted in time past by individuals who have tried to use Satanic Hedonism as means to justify their drug abuse. If they would only have enough comprehension to understand that the very act of drug abuse is compulsive, illegal, self-deceitful, and self-destructive.

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#290271 - 12/13/07 01:25 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: ]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290274 - 12/13/07 02:44 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
DaggerJack Offline


Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 88
Loc: California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?


I can name a multitude of things to do at 2:30AM on a weekday, perks of having a complete brain in my head. I only point that out because the average "recreational" drug user's brain look like a lump of molding swiss cheese.

In fact, a drug destroyed brain is a bit like an old piece of cheese. It started out as a masterpiece of trial and error on a grand scale, but through neglect has lost all usefulness or potential to offer enjoyment to anyone, including the owner.

You used drugs, and you destroyed the most precious thing you get in this life, your mind. Weakling.
_________________________
Clever signature pending

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#290303 - 12/13/07 07:17 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Happy Birthday Taliana Offline


Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 1217
Loc: England
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs


Wow. I think that says it all.

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#290304 - 12/13/07 07:22 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
How many of you have actually done drugs in your life?
Maybe I'm just some blind follower trying to make an excuse for me habits, but my response to the whole drug thing is, why the fuck should it matter. So what if I smoke some pot, or snort some coke, or pop some pills, they are all quite enjoyable activities, that should be enjoyed. And why shouldn't I, because there is some law against it, why should I give a shit about what a bunch of old pricks think is suitable for me. I've been lived with and without drugs, I prefer the drugs and the chances of me changing my mind simply because people tell me to are slim to none, I will continue to go by what I find is true and not just the herds norm. I am aware that this will doubtfully change anyone possesions on drugs, which I guess makes this all kinda pointless, but hell it's two thirty, what the fuck else is there to do?


Copy your reply and paste it on Microsoft Office Word. Do a spell and grammar check.

Any day of the week look inside your wallet. Similar results i'm sure.



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#290308 - 12/13/07 07:46 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Psychotherapeut]
Taubmann Offline


Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Basque Country
 Originally Posted By: Stuki
 Quote:
Just for the record... I [color:"red"]HATE[/color] "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits. <img src="/lttd/images/graemlins/flame.gif" alt="" />


The funny thing about the straight edge movement, is that it is completely off-base from it's founding ideals. It was not a movement of abstinence. It was a movement of self-control. If you smoked a cigarette, fine, just don't get yourself addicted to smoking. If you had a beer, fine, just don't get drunk. It seems like everyone distorted it so it would better fit the sunday school punk rocker profile. I would actually akin the original ideals more to those of Satanism. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if that was the actual influence…


On topic, Mason Rust, that was indeed an amazing post. People too often contend that it is their right to partake in what they wish, when in fact, the truth is quite the opposite in most countries.


The original straight edge kids (from Minor Threat to the Boston Crew) weren´t stupid righteous zealots but people who knew that in order to create something, in order to be something you had to be free from chemical (or any other kind of) dependance. They just applied that thought to their DIY ethics. And it worked.
I know 32 and 35 straight edge guys so the whole "they´re just sxe untill college" thing is pretty stupid. As any subculture it´s full of herd but, again, as any subculture it´s full of movers and shakers who talk the talk and walk the walk no matter what.


You take their shit
Stand up and fight
Fuck those rules
And show your might
But you have no guts
You'd rather get high
Take the day off
And smoke all you buy

Wasted youth by SSD


Edited by Taubmann (12/13/07 07:48 AM)
_________________________
“People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”

Kierkegaard

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#290314 - 12/13/07 08:20 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Taubmann]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
Hmmm, I should probably start writing all of these replies out on Microsoft Word, reread them, and THEN post them. But at any rate, thanks you guys, because of your generous contributions to the betterment of my life through kind words and explanations that are, quite frankly, unarguable. All of your arguments were extremely well thought out and persuasive, from the points made about my grammatical errors to…the other remarks about my grammatical errors all inspired me to completely change my views; I have now put down that hypodermic needle and am about to head off to church. Oh wait, this is the Satanic forum, not Christian, I get those two confused sometimes.
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290315 - 12/13/07 08:22 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
No introduction.

No interest in Satanism other than using it to rationalize your criminality---which it can't.

Do you want to leave now, or be banned?

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#290324 - 12/13/07 09:23 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
Hmmm, I should probably start writing all of these replies out on Microsoft Word, reread them, and THEN post them. But at any rate, thanks you guys, because of your generous contributions to the betterment of my life through kind words and explanations that are, quite frankly, unarguable. All of your arguments were extremely well thought out and persuasive, from the points made about my grammatical errors to…the other remarks about my grammatical errors all inspired me to completely change my views; I have now put down that hypodermic needle and am about to head off to church. Oh wait, this is the Satanic forum, not Christian, I get those two confused sometimes.


Actually Christians love druggies, it gives them more perpetual fuck-ups to "forgive" and "help."

We just weed them out.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#290339 - 12/13/07 10:42 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Majic Offline


Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 234
Loc: Sagittarius III
If you don't respect yourself, why should anyone else?



"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." -- Homer Simpson
_________________________
If you expect humanity to disappoint you, you'll never be disappointed.

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#290356 - 12/13/07 11:44 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Majic]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
I never said I wanted (or needed) anything to rationalize anything.
Why would you ban me? Someone can’t stand a little criticism…
What exactly is you peoples definition of “loser” or “fuck up” or what have you?
Oh and for the record drugs have no control on my life, I can and have gone months without touching any such substance.
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290358 - 12/13/07 12:00 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
"Why would you ban me? Someone can’t stand a little criticism…"

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

We require an introduction.

We plainly state that advocating illegal activity will win you a one way trip out the door.

Listen, wiseass, a day doesn't go by when some schmuck doesn't come here thinking he's the first one to notice a discrepancy between personal freedom and law.

That discrepancy is between the legislature and the individual. This church, this LEGAL Church of Satan chooses to back the law. Can you guess why? Because it is the law.

You will find that individual Satanists may or may not agree with the law. You may find that individual Satanists may or may not be for or against recreational drug use. What you won't find is this forum upholding anything but what is legal. Period. No way. No how.

The Church of Satan does not advocate any kind of illegal activity.

Most members find drug use to be antithetical to personal responsibility.

Others are evidently canny enough to keep their mouths shut.

As for you, before we ban you, I'm going to suggest you put your strong feelings on this topic to good use by joining an organization that works to change the law you apparently feel outweighs all other topics.

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#290372 - 12/13/07 12:58 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Ygraine]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
I really don’t care about the legality of it, like I’ve said, the law doesn’t phase me. I was simply trying to explain my opinions on a subject that I found hypocritical, expressing ones opinion is apparently not the reason for forums, I must have misunderstood. For someone that follows a religion based on cultural shock and apparent offensiveness you people sure are a bunch of tight asses.
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290374 - 12/13/07 01:02 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
I really don’t care about the legality of it, like I’ve said, the law doesn’t phase me. I was simply trying to explain my opinions on a subject that I found hypocritical, expressing ones opinion is apparently not the reason for forums, I must have misunderstood. For someone that follows a religion based on cultural shock and apparent offensiveness you people sure are a bunch of tight asses.


If you choose to engage in illegal activity and a below-average lifestyle, do so elsewhere.

You are like a chihuahua barking at the moon.

The moon could care less and the chihuahua is just making an ass of itself.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#290375 - 12/13/07 01:07 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
"I really don’t care about the legality of it, like I’ve said, the law doesn’t phase me."

Yes and Satanism is very much about LAW & ORDER!
Case closed!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#290377 - 12/13/07 01:08 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
And you are a dumb ass, because you really don’t care about the legality of it. I hope you get busted with your dope. And a cell mate that you may find yourself alone with, with a large BIG 10" cock teaches you about the legality of it. ;\)
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#290378 - 12/13/07 01:09 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Jack_Lantern]
Psycho_Logos Offline


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 44
 Originally Posted By: Jack_Lantern
 Quote:
in some cases, encouraged by many authority figures enough to make it seem perfectly harmless.


This should be enough to make any one with half a brain suspicious.

Ever read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"?

I was thinking about "Brave New World" throughout my entire reading of this forum. Thank you for mentioning it. I believe that it really is appropriate to the subject at hand. Within its pages Huxley tells a story where the government uses drugs, among other things, to keep people happy and complacent, willing to listen and obey. Drugs replaced God and religion, becoming all that a person needed to be happy. Although this is obviously a fictional work, some of the beliefs held within it ring true. Drugs are the makers of sheep- they are yet another way to let someone other than yourself rule your life. In the beginning you may be the one that chooses the drugs, but, as time passes, the drugs become the thing that guides your choices; where to get the next fix, or what time can I smoke or inject or pop this so that I won't get caught by anyone. If you are not careful, and often even if you are, drugs become the most important thing...they become, like in Huxley's book, a new god. Because of this, I completely understand LaVey's stand on the matter of drugs. In Satanism you are your own god, not to be ruled over by some other divine being, or drugs or whatever else may come.
_________________________
"The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well."
~ Alfred Adler, Austrian psychologist.
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
~ William James, American founder of psychology

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#290379 - 12/13/07 01:13 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Psycho_Logos]
Magister_Lang Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 5822
Loc: I-BLISS!
 Originally Posted By: Psycho_Logos
 Originally Posted By: Jack_Lantern
 Quote:
in some cases, encouraged by many authority figures enough to make it seem perfectly harmless.


This should be enough to make any one with half a brain suspicious.

Ever read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"?

I was thinking about "Brave New World" throughout my entire reading of this forum. Thank you for mentioning it. I believe that it really is appropriate to the subject at hand. Within its pages Huxley tells a story where the government uses drugs, among other things, to keep people happy and complacent, willing to listen and obey. Drugs replaced God and religion, becoming all that a person needed to be happy. Although this is obviously a fictional work, some of the beliefs held within it ring true. Drugs are the makers of sheep- they are yet another way to let someone other than yourself rule your life. In the beginning you may be the one that chooses the drugs, but, as time passes, the drugs become the thing that guides your choices; where to get the next fix, or what time can I smoke or inject or pop this so that I won't get caught by anyone. If you are not careful, and often even if you are, drugs become the most important thing...they become, like in Huxley's book, a new god. Because of this, I completely understand LaVey's stand on the matter of drugs. In Satanism you are your own god, not to be ruled over by some other divine being, or drugs or whatever else may come.


You get it!
HS!
_________________________
“The world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.”

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."
R. Lang XLVI A.S.

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#290380 - 12/13/07 01:17 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Psycho_Logos]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
If you really didn’t give a shit about what I said then you wouldn’t be arguing now would you? Oh and Nephilim, I hope that is your 10”-er we’re talking about.;)
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290381 - 12/13/07 01:18 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
you people sure are a bunch of tight asses.


You totally do not get us.

You are not one of us.

Satanists love LIFE. Satanists love FREEDOM. Satanists believe self-preservation is the highest law.

Due to all that they protect their freedom and their lives and find them infinitely more important than a moment of artificial joy.

 Quote:
a religion based on cultural shock and apparent offensiveness y


is evidently working on you! We offend you & destroy your stereotypical view. Your's is exactly the kind of culture we enjoy shocking.


Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

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#290382 - 12/13/07 01:25 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Ygraine]
Rolland Finan Offline
banned druggie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 9
Loc: The middle of nowhere
The only thing that shocks me is how close you guys seem to followers of other religions.
_________________________
There are no men freer than the insane

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#290383 - 12/13/07 01:26 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Danny Mc. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2143
Loc: Taxationland
 Quote:
Oh and Nephilim, I hope that is your 10”-er we’re talking about.;)


First, you'd never find me in prison. Second, if you are a female and we was behind bars together you'd still be my bitch!
_________________________
"To be born into this world a sentient, self-conscious and reasoning being, surrounded by inexhaustible glories in Nature, which we may comprehend, possess,enjoy; to be able to rise on the wings of a lofty imagination; to be able to get glimpses of the ideally perfect; to apprehend the Divine; it is to the development and enjoyment of these high powers that the young man is invited. How dare he refuse to qualify himself by the most perfect training of all his powers." Lyman J. Gage 1910


"Follow Me!", John M. (Delta).

"I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others - they are more screwed up than you think." Something Magistra Isabel posted. laugh

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#290384 - 12/13/07 01:26 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Rolland Finan]
Psycho_Logos Offline


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 44
 Originally Posted By: Rolland Finan
If you really didn’t give a shit about what I said then you wouldn’t be arguing now would you? Oh and Nephilim, I hope that is your 10”-er we’re talking about.;)

Where does it say that I don't give a shit? To tell you the truth, this was the first time I saw this topic, and, having read through its entirety, I decided to toss in my own ideas on the matter. Although I don't agree with what you are saying, that was not my sole reason for posting. Maybe you shouldn't lash out at random people...doing so lowers your validity as an intelligent person contributing to the forum. Also, if you do lash out, can you a least provide some reason to back it up?


Edited by Psycho_Logos (12/13/07 01:29 PM)
Edit Reason: noticed a fallacy in the flow of the argument...probably still there, but oh well
_________________________
"The only normal people are the one's you don't know very well."
~ Alfred Adler, Austrian psychologist.
"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
~ William James, American founder of psychology

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