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#193884 - 10/15/06 05:06 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: TrojZyr]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

Can't people give each other naked back rubs and snuggles without X?




I happen to enjoy being the reciever of back rubs, and I haven't ever tried Ecstasy. Maybe it's better with it, but I prefer just liking and not desperately *needing* the back rubs.


Quote:

What's so bad about reality, anyway, so that people feel they have to mask it with chemicals?




It saddens me that some people don't realize that this reality actually is exactly as fucked up as we make it. I *make* mine pleasant enough that I don't have to alter it with drugs. This doesn't mean my life is perfect, because, of course, it is not. I just arrange things in what I view is the best possible way, expecting good outcomes, and when those don't come along, I toughen up. I don't flee from my life, and I think to do so is the ultimate weakness.


Quote:

And that's my main objection to drugs: they can permanently alter the chemistry of your body, and worse, your brain.




That is precisely my objection, that it alters your brain. I HATE my brain being changed -- I hate drinking alcohol, even a little, because I get a little too ditzy. I despise the way it makes me feel. Not being in complete control of myself and my actions and emotions bothers me, a lot.

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#193885 - 10/15/06 06:13 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: euol]
dragondancer Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1546
Loc: Virginia

Quote:

Quote:

I think the trend toward "mood drugs" is disgusting




Also very much agreed. This is the one I'm going to rant a bit on, because I've recently found I HATE Ecstasy and the stereotypical person that takes it. I hadn't thought much about this until someone mentioned this rave, and how they were "rolling", then it caught my interest. I wanted to know what "rolling" meant and what drug you took to do so, because I hate not being "in the loop" about slang and such. A lot. Anyway... I read about the drug. Eh, whatever. Surprised a bit that you can technically drown yourself because of how thirtsty you feel. I read a little more and found this out: it wasn't the drug that disgusted me so. It was the users.




I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft. I may be wrong. At any rate, there's a big difference between taking xtasy and prozac to alleviate the depression brought on by the reality that all is not as it seems. I think that difference is really only a matter of the level of need one has. How deep off the reality scale do you want to go. Change of brain wave patterns or just a little chemical alteration, as in serotonin levels.

I do think there is a place for legally utilized mood altering medications. For example someone who is depressed by a situation in life and needs to get over it, may be helped by a med that will kick start their brains into making the necessary moves required to change things. Or someone that has an anxiety disorder and needs meds to help alleviate the anxiety enough to function normally.

On the other hand, there are those who use the meds to compensate for a weak mind. They languish in self pity and run to a doctor to magically change their pathetic lives.

Weak minded people need a crutch to lean on (be it legal or otherwise) to make it through their pathetic lives while they cling to the hope that death is better. Now that's sad.



Hail Satan!
_________________________
"It does take an exceptional mind and a still more exceptional integrity to remain untouched by the brain-destroying influences of the world's doctrines, the accumulated evil of the centuries-to remain human, since the human is the rational." Dr. Akston in Atlas Shrugged

"Not life, but good life, is to be chiefly valued." Socrates

Dragondancer
Temple of Vampire


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#193886 - 10/15/06 06:22 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: dragondancer]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft.




Ah... you're probably very, very right. I think it still applies, though.

Quote:

I do think there is a place for legally utilized mood altering medications. For example someone who is depressed by a situation in life and needs to get over it, may be helped by a med that will kick start their brains into making the necessary moves required to change things. Or someone that has an anxiety disorder and needs meds to help alleviate the anxiety enough to function normally.




Although I think people need to learn to cope without, I will admit there may be some few cases where this "kick start" is necessary. While that smacks of weak mindedness, still I can understand if it is an actual mental disability that gets in the way of normal life.

Quote:

On the other hand, there are those who use the meds to compensate for a weak mind. They languish in self pity and run to a doctor to magically change their pathetic lives.

Weak minded people need a crutch to lean on (be it legal or otherwise) to make it through their pathetic lives while they cling to the hope that death is better. Now that's sad.




Agreed!

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#193887 - 10/15/06 06:57 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: dragondancer]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:

I was thinking that the mood drugs referred to here were of the legal variety. Drugs such as prozac or zoloft. I may be wrong. At any rate, there's a big difference between taking xtasy and prozac to alleviate the depression brought on by the reality that all is not as it seems. I think that difference is really only a matter of the level of need one has. How deep off the reality scale do you want to go. Change of brain wave patterns or just a little chemical alteration, as in serotonin levels.




Yes, there is a difference. However, it's important to note that certain mental illnesses like situational depression (even if long-term) is meant to be temporarily alleviated by pharmacotherapy in conjuction with psychotherapy. There is often a great resisitance to get off the meds once on them. And to a few, it just becomes their new addiction.

Certain other mental illnesses (bipolar disorder, schizophrenia) usually require life long medication. But in all cases, the patient has the best results when they are consciously monitoring their own moods to maintain stability. An understanding and supportive family (more and more common) helps greatly in this matter.

Bipolar disorder can also be treated with vitamine therapy, once already stable on synthetic meds, a gradual weening can occur. But that takes an encredible amount of self discipline and is not suitable for all patients.

If the anecdotal evidence I witness at work everyday is any indication, these drugs are not effective for everybody. The right dose and combination is paramount to maintaining quality of life. But don't believe Tom Cruise. Mental illness is very real. He does a disservice to those requiring help by promoting otherwise.

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#193888 - 10/16/06 12:36 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Mr_47]
Emily Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 114
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

I can even give him credit for my finding Satanism, as I am sure a lot of folks could credit him the same.



Although I never was a huge Manson fan, when I originally decided to look into Satanism, I had also known less than "truly Satanic" individuals as the initial source of my curiosity regarding the CoS.

I remember feeling rather embarassed that I was reading LaVey's works because of the "influence" of these people.

Now I realize that these individuals were not my reason for learning about Satanism and eventually joining the CoS. Since Satanists are born and not made, most of us find our way here through what ever path happens to be there at the time. If I hadn't known those people when I did, I probably would have had different experiences that brought me here.

I think the same applies to Manson. Many people looked into the CoS after reading his book The Long Hard Road Out of Hell. I suspect they would still be Satanists even if they had never read this book. (I never did.)
_________________________
"As within, so without. If you do not have happiness within you, you will never find it outside of you."

The underhanded manipulator is akin to the woman who stuffs her bra, or the man who wears a codpiece. When it comes down to business, the goods are revealed, and any inadequacies are subsequently exposed.

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#193889 - 10/16/06 05:21 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
Grima Offline


Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Netherlands
I cannot be said enough it seems; indulgence not compulsion. It's that simple and I cannot help but smirk when I see another self-proclaimed 'Satanist' passing out because he/she had way too much to drink, snort or whatnot.
Satanism is all about taking control over your life and not giving control out of hands to whatever it is.

Frankly it's rather absurd that a topic like this comes up every time because if you fail to get this you'll never understand the philosophy as a whole.
Taking control of your own life is the very first, if not only, and most important step.

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#193890 - 10/16/06 12:05 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Emily]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Hello, fellow Coloradoan. Your kitty looks like he's a in a tough spot there!

The Internet introduced me to Satanism---an America Online chat room, to be precise. Manson's music came after the fact, after I got into Nine Inch Nails' music for a time.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#193891 - 10/16/06 02:37 PM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Svengali]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1512
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
I think if you have to resort to mind-altering drugs to enjoy and take pleasure in your life, then it's time to ask yourself some serious questions and re-evaluate your life.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton

JustinR on The Undercroft


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#193892 - 10/18/06 04:36 PM LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Svengali]
Mason_Rust Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 1780
Loc: Michigan, USA
Sorry that I'm late to the discussion, and thanks for bringing up this topic, Magister Svengali. Every once and a while the drug addled morons who seep into LttD need a reality check, and I'd like to contribute to it, if I may.

Both Satanism as a philosophy and religion, along with the Church of Satan as an organization are very clear on the issue of drugs and substance abuse. There are many who would love to redefine what the CoS and Satanism is in order to have it match closer to what they would like it to be. Often, they turn a blind eye to...

1. The majority of substances out there which are considered drugs are illegal. The Church of Satan condones no illegal activities.

2. Satanism is about seeing the world for what it truly is. This is hardly possible while under the influence of a drug.

3. A Satanist is in complete control of him/herself and strives to control the environment that he/she is in. Drugs hinder one's ability to do either.

4. Because drugs can kill you, land you in years of prison confinement, and shorten your life span, they very much get in the way of living a full life which Satanism champions.

I could continue this list, but I think I hit the major ones...

If you are one of those who like to imagine that LaVey agrees with all of that, but also agrees with the idea of doing what you want behind closed doors, hush hush, mum's the word, let me quote The Satanic Witch for you (which most of the drug users who find their way here from time to time never bother to read, I'm sure):

"After a formidably productive experience under the influence of an hallucigenic drug there is often a profound assumption of mystical or magical power. The assumption is, of course, confined solely to the user of the drug, but let no one attempt to deter her from her chemically produced reality!... no experience will quite come up to that which the drug has supplied, so, therefore, the drug will become the criteria-producing device for her self-assumed prowess."

Now, pay close attention to the next part...

"Let me state categorically at this point that drugs are antithetical to the practice of magic, as they tend to disassociate the user from reality, even though he oftentimes thinks himself closer."

And furthermore...

"If you are to be a successful witch, faith helps, but it takes a good deal more. If, however, you do not plan on practicing witchcraft but only believing in it, use all the drugs you like."

Drugs cause you to believe things that are not true. They waste your time, your money, your health, and your safety. A few glasses of a fine wine or an expensive whiskey (or what have you) is one thing. Getting shitfaced on the weekend (or I suppose for some of you, during the working week) with any drug, be it legal or not, is a completely different thing, and hardly the behavior of a master of reality, also known as, a Satanist.
_________________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-Carl Sagan

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#193893 - 10/18/06 05:15 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
1:
Quote:

The Church of Satan condones no illegal activities.




The biggie that sums up quite a bit, quite nicely.

2:
Quote:

hardly the behavior of a master of reality




*applause* I love the way that was put.

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#193894 - 10/18/06 05:16 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
AAAAAAAAAAA+++++++++++++++++++++++++
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder. -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#193895 - 10/18/06 11:51 PM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
You have a talent for words that I envy.
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#193896 - 10/19/06 12:38 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Grima]
Tetsuo Offline


Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Germany,Europe,World,Universe
I'm proud of myself that I never start smoking, I only took one puff in my whole life and start being sick for hours which leads me to the fact the smoking makes me ill (vomit, not forget to mention cancer - many family-related and also friends or people I know died or 'just got ill' etc.).
Second is that I never start taking really hard drugs first it's illegal, second it isn't healthy.
Years ago I also joined a "scene" called straight edge (invented by Minor Thread, band from the US - more info click this Link ) but then I left the scene and start enjoy the taste of wine, beer or whatever not to get drunk but because I like the taste and it's a luxury sometimes. But it's not impossible that I'll be without any kind of a drug (incl. also alcohol and of course all the other drugs..), but at the moment my life's under pretty nice control by myself and not by any of mentioned drugs and that's OK.

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#193897 - 10/19/06 12:48 AM Re: SATANIC HEDONISM vs. RECREATIONAL DRUG ABUSE [Re: Tetsuo]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Just for the record... I HATE "Straight Edge" kids. They're obnoxious and preachy, they always grow out of it (which shows how much conviction they really have), they are ignorant (they don't know why they don't like drugs but they sure as hell don't), they are the worst kind of herd - they only chose the "lifestyle" because it is easy to not drink alcohol or smoke cirgarettes when they're not old enough to buy either. The only reason they do it is to give them a reason to make friends. They follow their "morals" until is inconvenient because of social pressure (aka they go to college/can buy beer). Grrr...

OH! and the ruin My mosh pits.


Edited by Drimlybunk (10/19/06 12:54 AM)

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#193898 - 10/19/06 02:34 AM Re: LaVey Was Not Vague [Re: Mason_Rust]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
I think this post should be made a sticky.

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