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#194299 - 10/14/06 01:51 AM Faults of Satan
WURM Offline


Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 6
An inquiry.

What are some faults you see in Satanism (if you believe there are)?

Personally, I see a very solid philosophy but I think that the moralities of Satanism, like Nietzsche and many others can become something worse off than, perhaps, the complete evasion of them in Christianity. This is mainly why I'm not a “Satanist”. Aside from morals, I think that it (Satanism) gives to much way on selfishness, which is confusing because that, to me, feels like something against elitism.

Any thoughts?

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#194300 - 10/14/06 01:53 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10132
You're not very clear about this.

Very bluntly, I don't see any fault in Satanic philosophy. Unlike members of other religions, we don't "settle" and compromise ourselves.

What problem do you see in Satanic "morality" (though it is more accurately ethics, not morality)? How is selfishness contrary to elitism?
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#194301 - 10/14/06 02:01 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
WURM Offline


Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 6
Quote:

You're not very clear about this.

Very bluntly, I don't see any fault in Satanic philosophy. Unlike members of other religions, we don't "settle" and compromise ourselves.

What problem do you see in Satanic "morality" (though it is more accurately ethics, not morality)? How is selfishness contrary to elitism?




ah, correct, ethics, it would more properly be. And i guess the selfishness would be somewhere in with the ethics. my problem is (with the ethics) that Satanism leaves the door open for nearly anything. And with that, we have taking advantage of others becuase the are weaker (by eviromental determinism) or vampires (i think). but, all in all, i just couldn't see an existence of a society of satanists becuase of the ethical realtivism that indures in satanism. i feel, still without any belief in a god, that there are fundamental macro-ethics that all humans can agree with. and correct me if my wrong, wouldnt a satanist society not really live be those or even want too.

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#194302 - 10/14/06 02:04 AM A question for you. [Re: WURM]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I was wondering if you are open to Satanism or possibly even becoming a member of the Church of Satan in the future?

I am only trying to determine if you have an open mind on the subject or not.

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#194303 - 10/14/06 02:13 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10132
You're wrong on a lot of counts.

For example, you suggest that there is something wrong with taking advantage of others, yet from a Satanic perspective, this is merely nature itself, the law of the jungle, and isn't something we have to legislate to make true. It simply is.

You also seem to believe that we have no code of conduct or ethical sensibility, a code of honor if you will. This is hardly the case; I think you will find that among Satanists, honor and loyalty are valued most highly, prized virtues to be admired and praised. Satanism also strongly suggests a sense of justice, which would be completely at odds with a "do anything" notion such as you suggest. Satanism is neither blind hedonism or anarchy, but something far more refined.

Your biggest fault, however, is that you assume that Satanism believes itself to be or would ever wish to be a majority religion. Quite the opposite, intrinsic to the philosophy is that it is the ethic of the minority, and Dr. LaVey even specifically said that Satanism is in opposition to all those beliefs that wistfully hope for a utopia that could only function in a nation of philosophers.

Conversely, however, Satanism is the "reality" of everything. Perhaps here is where you find confusion, no? For Satanism describes the law by which all things live, yet suggests at the same time that there is a "right" way to this, a way by which you become better by acknowledging your carnal nature rather than denying it, and by resolving a code of ethics and justice for yourself, rather than allowing the invisible man to do so for you.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#194304 - 10/14/06 02:18 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Why would a person identify with a religion in which they see faults?

Your comment is actually one that I encounter regularly. People who have not read all of the Satanic Bible jump to conclusions that we feel entitled to do whatever we please regardless of the consequences or harm to people around us. This is far from the case.

Such a perspective comes only from those that are either:

A. looking for flaws and ignoring evidence that rejects their conclusions.

or

B. are using a definition of Satanism that they read from an unofficial source.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#194305 - 10/14/06 02:21 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
WURM Offline


Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 6
that clears it up a bit. thanks.

it makes more sense now that i know its meant only to be a minority religion and so forth.

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#194306 - 10/14/06 02:23 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
Quote:

You also seem to believe that we have no code of conduct or ethical sensibility, a code of honor if you will. This is hardly the case; I think you will find that among Satanists, honor and loyalty are valued most highly, prized virtues to be admired and praised. Satanism also strongly suggests a sense of justice, which would be completely at odds with a "do anything" notion such as you suggest. Satanism is neither blind hedonism or anarchy, but something far more refined.




Satanism's detractors ignore that point so often and it is the crux of their argument in so many cases.

Well done! (I would expect no less)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#194307 - 10/14/06 04:25 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Happy Birthday tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
Quote:

You're wrong on a lot of counts.

For example, you suggest that there is something wrong with taking advantage of others, yet from a Satanic perspective, this is merely nature itself, the law of the jungle, and isn't something we have to legislate to make true. It simply is.

You also seem to believe that we have no code of conduct or ethical sensibility, a code of honor if you will. This is hardly the case; I think you will find that among Satanists, honor and loyalty are valued most highly, prized virtues to be admired and praised. Satanism also strongly suggests a sense of justice, which would be completely at odds with a "do anything" notion such as you suggest. Satanism is neither blind hedonism or anarchy, but something far more refined.

Your biggest fault, however, is that you assume that Satanism believes itself to be or would ever wish to be a majority religion. Quite the opposite, intrinsic to the philosophy is that it is the ethic of the minority, and Dr. LaVey even specifically said that Satanism is in opposition to all those beliefs that wistfully hope for a utopia that could only function in a nation of philosophers.

Conversely, however, Satanism is the "reality" of everything. Perhaps here is where you find confusion, no? For Satanism describes the law by which all things live, yet suggests at the same time that there is a "right" way to this, a way by which you become better by acknowledging your carnal nature rather than denying it, and by resolving a code of ethics and justice for yourself, rather than allowing the invisible man to do so for you.




**tekku stands up and gives a standing ovation**
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#194308 - 10/14/06 04:31 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
The only faults I can think of lie in Satanists, not Satanism. Other Satanists don't always apply or interpret Satanism in a way I agree with or think is practical or correct. Newbies in particular do not always seem to understand which ideas belong solely to LaVey, or even solely to other members of the hierarchy, and which ideas are clearly and plainly part of Satanic doctrine.

So, there are a few Satanists in the world, in my view, who go overboard, say, on the misanthropia, or the fascism. Of course, this is my personal preference, so your mileage may vary.

Actual Satanism, as I see it, is very straightforward and practical. How can I object to wanting to care for myself, or wanting to preserve my life, and the things, people, and hobbies dear to me? How can I object to pragmatism? And, how could I deny or reject that might makes right in the end, independent of my myriad other ideas on such matters?
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#194309 - 10/14/06 04:41 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10132
The funny thing is that you hold the keys right in your hand yet don't even realize it.

You see the obvious need for an ethical code of honor, and the need for logic, carnality, and human decency to find their common ground.

Satanism provides a ready work table, and says, "You see what must be done to make such a code for yourself, so make it!"

This is hardly a flaw, this is perfection itself. It is fully expected that your personal ethics and code will take the need for reason and justice into account. Satanism is the foundation on which you build a house. You can build a house many ways, but you do so with brick, mortar, and lumber all the same.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#194310 - 10/14/06 04:49 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: TrojZyr]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Satan has no faults as Satan does not exist.

The only faults within Satanism are that of the faults of the individual Satanist.

Humans make mistakes and are not above reproach.

A Satanist will admit to his/her faults, learn from them and not repeat them.

Mistakes however are not to be blamed on 'Satan', 'Satanism' or 'insert any name here you wish' but to that of the offending person/party.

_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#194311 - 10/14/06 05:14 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Bedrosian Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 763
Loc: Finland
You need to undestand that Satanism is not nihilism.
_________________________
SATANISMI.NET - 'Finnish Reflections on Satanism'

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#194312 - 10/14/06 08:24 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Biff Offline


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 370
Loc: Hong Kong, SAR
There is no fault to Satanism, it was designed to be the religion that suited man the most. I am quite new to Satanism but I have gathered enough understanding. It used to confuse me that a satanist would be friendly yet elitist and I thought it was a contradiction but looking I deeper it would mean that people can be elitist and tough though you are supposed to posess some care for those who treat you well.

The only fault, though not really a fault of Satanism itself, is that individuals can take this religion in the wrong way because of the hundreds of years of Xian propaganda that they've disillusioned themself with but that is up to the individual and not the religion.
_________________________
'Carpe diem quam minimum credulo postero' - Horace

'It's only hubris, if I fail.' - Caesar (HBO's Rome)

HAIL SATAN!

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#194313 - 10/14/06 09:52 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Manimal Offline


Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 19
Loc: Norway
The fault of Satanism is some of its followers, not the philosophy. Far too many consider Satanism a doctrine for which your behavior to be regulated with. They don't understand the philosophy; they are merely Followers - not Satanists.

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#194314 - 10/14/06 10:19 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
IRI Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
I will just jump in and say that the replies you have received address your initial post.

As already stated the faults lie in how well an individual Satanist applies Satanic philosophy in their life. It is a given that Satanists are born not converted and therefore this no doubt excludes a large segment of the population. This is not to say that there may not be either born Satanists in transition (in the process of discovering the Satanic path) or those not quite sure if they are or are not Satanic but sincerely trying it out later to find that it is not for them. Needless to say, human error will occur in both these scenarios, but hopefully will correct itself at an early stage. In any case, from an outside observer viewpoint, an uninformed person may point out this self-inflicted human error and say "Ha, that's a fault in Santanism!" Of course this is far from the truth, it is a fault in the person to apply Satanic philosophy properly.

IRI
_________________________
"Sheep to the right, Goats to the left"

"Where do people in Hell tell each other to go?"

"If we are all gods children, why is Christ so special?"

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#194315 - 10/14/06 10:46 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Quote:

This is mainly why I'm not a “Satanist”. Aside from morals, I think that it (Satanism) gives to much way on selfishness, which is confusing because that, to me, feels like something against elitism.



Then why are you here?
I could care less why you are not a Satanist.
_________________________
�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#194316 - 10/14/06 11:53 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:

This is mainly why I'm not a “Satanist”.




Did you somehow wander in here by mistake, can you find the door?
_________________________
"If a man empties his purse into his head no one can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." -Benjamin Franklin

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#194317 - 10/14/06 12:11 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Mr_47 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Pure Imagination
My two cents.

There are no flaws in Satanism. I have flaws, you have flaws. We all have flaws. What do you mean by "aside from morals?" I have morals. I am willing to bet all of these lovely folks have morals. Our morals function on a level that coincides with the laws of nature, not some two thousand year old finger wagging. This is why we have The 9 Sins, The 11 Rules and The 9 Statements.

Quote:

I think that it (Satanism) gives to much way on selfishness, which is confusing because that, to me, feels like something against elitism.





Selfishness is against elitism? That's a contradiction. You are overlooking the fact that we are our own gods. Would you not want to serve your god? Well, I certainly do. I serve myself and no one else. I always think of myself first and put myself before others. The elitism we represent is based on intelligence. Some seem to have this misconception that elitism is about ethnicity or some other pish posh. It's not. It's about smarts and rational hedonism amongst other things.

You say that our morals come off worse than the complete evasion of them? Life is the great indulgence, death the ultimate abstinence. Satan represents the so-called 'sins' because they lead to physical, mental, and emotional gratification. Personally, I'd rather do something that satisfies me than deny myself of it because of the previously mentioned outdated finger wagging.

Dr. LaVey codified the religion this way for a reason. It weeds out would-be detractors. He defined it this way so as to make sure that those that are it, get it. I say you need to go back and give it another go. Then again, you did say you weren't a Satanist.

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#194318 - 10/14/06 01:11 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
redheadgrl Offline


Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 273
You might want to revisit your thoughts and feelings on selfishness. Rationalize the importance of it and think about where true motivation originates and not what guilt would have you 'believe.'

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#194319 - 10/14/06 01:19 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Citizen_Squish Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: California
Quote:

I'm not a “Satanist”.




'Nuff said.
_________________________
If people had wings, they would die on their backs, buzzing around in little circles.
-Uncle Fester, "Silent Death"

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#194320 - 10/14/06 01:30 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024

Go somewhere else, Shit-disturber!

_________________________

Refuse to die.

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#194321 - 10/14/06 02:18 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
The beauty of Satanism is it's ability to define reality.

Satanism doesn't make the rules, but rather offers an explanation of how things really are.

Once you can fully understand that concept, lightbulbs start flashing.

Satanism offers a glimpse into the metaphysics of life, but it doesn't hold our hand if we decide to embrace what we saw.

As others have stated before me, Satanists, rather than Satanism exhibit flaws - it's human nature.

The Satanist however doesn't use that as an excuse, but rather he finds the solution. For me, this is what it means when I say that Satanism is a religion of study.

Reality changes, things can no longer be subjected to conveniently ready principles, what do you do? If you're a Satanist, this isn't any problem, if you're not a Satanist, it stratifies.

That's the crux of the matter, you either get it, or you don't.

You've admitted that you're not a Satanist, I'm inclined to agree with you.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a person’s faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#194322 - 10/14/06 03:10 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Poetaster]
leonor Offline


Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Portugal
Plain and simple.

My compliments, Sir.

october1560
_________________________
Time does not imply evolution. Very true. We are stepping back. One generates haunting monsters that generate haunting monsters on an endless spiral of misunderstanding, unsolved needs, moral amulets eradicating both the sickness and the cure.
I see a bunch of men raging at the void, haunted by their own inventions. Absurd. Totally absurd.

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#194323 - 10/14/06 09:45 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: TheAbysmal]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
There is a difference between someone who knows the facts but ignores them and a person who is ignorant of the truth. There is also a difference between people who do not want to learn more and those that trying to find out the truth about their inclinations. I suspect this to be a case of the latter of both. Though his questions was perhaps ill-advised I am glad he asked it because it gave rise to some very concise responses that needed to be stated and also points out a common misconception that the public holds about Satanism.

Know your friends but know your enemies better.


Edited by Drimlybunk (10/14/06 09:46 PM)
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#194324 - 10/14/06 11:22 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Drimlybunk]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024

"Know your friends but know your enemies better." Well said. I did fire prematurely.

After reading Noel's essay, The Psychology of the Shit-disturber, I have come to reallize a startling fact: I often only see shit-disturbers for their true worth long after I am covered in their shit. It is almost as if they lull me into their provocative trap. Was I born with a predisposition toward arguing with idiots? I do not know, but I sure do want to avoid it.

"Shit-disturber" is a very fitting name for them in that regard. I already use it at work to label our students who would rather wreak havock in the ranks than fall in line.

Using it has an interesting pyschological side effect. Upon explanation, I have discovered the shit-disturber nearly always denies it immediately and continues to shit-disturb, while the student whom I have mislabelled usually ignores it and changes course for the better.

Perhaps using the label this way here could offer some value to the board. What is your opinion on this? I would go so far to say Noel's essay should be stickied in the Introcutions forum, with a call to action of using it. If it is an untrue label for the lady or gentleman in question, he or she can always deny it or change course.

_________________________

Refuse to die.

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#194325 - 10/14/06 11:40 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: TheAbysmal]
Drimlybunk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 928
Loc: California
I find that one of the startling distinctions between most people on this board and the Magisters and Admins (which seem often to be one in the same) is that the Magisters and Admins have a great deal more patience than the rest of us. I feel there are two reasons for this:

First, they have been around a longer and have a better sense for who is here to cause trouble and who is here inappropriately but shows promise.

Second, they are in a position to explain themselves and Satanism in general that exceeds the rest of us. Their titles reflect their knowledge and their knowledge reflects their titles.

So how does this effect me? Well it just so happens that being able to accurately distinguish between ignorance and stupidity is a quality I admire and strive for. It also happens that being able to appropriately and convincing communicate my position on Satanism as well as many other subjects that are discussed here is a quality which I also hold in high regard. So I find it beneficial to hold my proverbial tongue until all of the evidence has been laid out and proper examination of the situation can be made.

That is why I thought you were being a bit quick with your (and a few others) identification.

If this poster were a shit-disturber I think he would have asked his question far more bluntly, not shown interest in our response and would have replied by now with something along the lines of a half-cocked story or account of how he is right and we are wrong. He's done none of these things.
_________________________
'We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their airplanes because it's obscene!' -- Col. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)

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#194326 - 10/15/06 03:54 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
"Any thoughts?"

Sure! When I read posts like yours, my thoughts lean towards questioning the motives of the poster.
_________________________




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#194327 - 10/15/06 08:08 AM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
Happy Birthday tekku Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1261
Loc: Behind You
**wurm added to my bait box for my fishing trip**

Translation : **user added to ignore list**
_________________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan

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#194328 - 10/15/06 12:43 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

This is mainly why I'm not a “Satanist”.




Ah. The kicker.

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#194329 - 10/15/06 01:15 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: TheAbysmal]
euol Offline
Banned

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 836
Quote:

I often only see shit-disturbers for their true worth long after I am covered in their shit.




I frequently run into this problem, but this sentence still made me laugh.

Quote:

Was I born with a predisposition toward arguing with idiots?




It feels like that sometimes, doesn't it? It took me many, many years to stumble across the idea that I can't change people with intelligent argument and it was noodley to try.

Quote:

I would go so far to say Noel's essay should be stickied in the Introcutions forum, with a call to action of using it. If it is an untrue label for the lady or gentleman in question, he or she can always deny it or change course.




The sad part is, the true shit-disturbers will deny it and continue, or ignore it and continue. It's them, and they cannot be stopped, only ignored. This is still a good idea for those who may not realize they are acting in a shit-disturbing fashion, and they may open their eyes and actively change for the better. Or, better yet, perhaps they will read the essay and decide to actively try NOT to seem anything like a shit-disturber, so as to not give anyone a reason to call them one.

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#194330 - 10/15/06 01:49 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: TheAbysmal]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
often only see shit-disturbers for their true worth long after I am covered in their shit. It is almost as if they lull me into their provocative trap. Was I born with a predisposition toward arguing with idiots?

I've gotten much better at noting when a conversation is about to nosedive into shit, but yes, I do notice that when I am asked a question or offered a verbal challenge, I usually give a genuine response. Part of it is that I usually see myself as offering my answer to a larger audience, rather than to just the one individual, so even if the individual is a shit-disturber, the other people watching the fight or conversation can learn something. The other part is, I may hope that I am witnessing profound, but curable, ignorance, rather than abject stupidity or maliciousness rebellion, so I test the water before tossing it out. Though, I am often too optimistic for my own good in that regard .
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#194331 - 10/15/06 08:02 PM Well? [Re: WURM]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...

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#194332 - 11/08/06 10:14 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Brawler Offline


Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2
Quote:

The funny thing is that you hold the keys right in your hand yet don't even realize it.

You see the obvious need for an ethical code of honor, and the need for logic, carnality, and human decency to find their common ground.

Satanism provides a ready work table, and says, "You see what must be done to make such a code for yourself, so make it!"

This is hardly a flaw, this is perfection itself. It is fully expected that your personal ethics and code will take the need for reason and justice into account. Satanism is the foundation on which you build a house. You can build a house many ways, but you do so with brick, mortar, and lumber all the same.




Well said, Leviathan. If there are any flaws that are associated with Satanism, they are the flaws of the individual Satanist. And these mistakes are swiftly either eliminated or turned towards the Satanist's benefit if said Satanist is indeed that! It is for this reason that Satanists are so diverse, and why the biggest threat to a Satanist is another Satanist. The Christian is brainwashed, self righteous and mentally inferior. If a Satanist were to enslave the earth's population, only a stronger Satanist will change that. Therein lies the beauty of Satanism.
_________________________
Topple the tyrant, empower the slave.

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#194333 - 11/09/06 07:03 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: WURM]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
A friend of mine asked a similar question. He asked, "Don't you think people would join your religion so that they could have sex and perform other acts without feeling guilty?" It's similar along the lines of asking about morality in Satanism. My first response is that I didn't join Satanism so I didn't have to feel guilty about sex. The fact that I never felt the need to feel guilty about sex in the first place is one of the things that drew me to Satanism. I also explained that it's not a philosophy of do whatever you want. Harming children and animals is expressly forbidden and all satanists are encouraged to obey all local laws. I'm not sure how selfishness is anti-elitist. That whole concept eluded me. The best I can say about selfishness is that it's the natural state of man. Nobody ever commits a truely altruistic act. Anyone who believes that they have committed a truely altruistic act is deluding themselves. Even when a kind act is performed for another we usually have the expectation that the person will perform a kind act for us when we are in need. Satanism asserts that humans are animals just like any other and all animals live for obtaining resources and passing on genes. Basic darwinism there. Let's take one moment to compare the morality of Satanism vs. Christianity (the same applies to many other religions.) Satanism never killed thousands of people for not believeing in our philosophy. We've never tried to force people to conform to our wishes and adopt our sense of ethics. Satanists don't have a savior who will forgive all our sins when we screw up. Because of that, I would argue that a Satanist is more inclined to be ethical. When we screw up there isn't any mystical savior to forgive us. We have to live with our actions and take responsibility for what we're done rather than passing the buck to a man in the sky.

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#194334 - 11/10/06 02:05 PM Re: Faults of Satan [Re: ModernTantalus]
Traveller Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 87
Loc: CA
ModernTanatalus:
The ethical aspects of Satanism is what resonated so much with me and they are the reason I'm here. I lived for a while in Houston, many years ago, and had a very christian girlfriend. Being around her I could never accept the idea of being 'saved', what? all the errors you've made suddenly erase themselves because of a new found faith or belief? (besides who can tell if you are being sincere or if it is just BS?) christianity as moral instrument got derailed when 'faith' over took 'actions' in importance. What really gets me is those that are 'saved' (ok, assume your past sins are forgiven) but they delude themselves that they continue to be saved from then on regardless of what they do after that.

The other side of the coin is inaction. If you have a belief that things will come out right if you have faith, then you dont do anything to improve your current sorry situation and will not plan ahead. After a few times helping with her rent, helping her when her car died I really got fed up and asked her to take more responsibility. Why she would say, I know if I pray god will help me in the form of an angel, you see, You ended up helping me! That really infuriated me!

And finally is the implied obligations that people with faith try to impose on you, like for example when my mom was sick she told me she prayed for my mom, later she would want something implying I owed her something or I had incurred an obligation to her by her praying. I tried to tell her that prying was a personal thing and that she did it to feel better herself and no obligation by me was incurred, but she did not get it.

I am sad to say that in the Chirstian circles in Houston I met some of the most selfish, insincere, uncaring, (Oh, I can not help you but I'll pry for you) and prejudiced people that were always putting up a front and could not be trusted. I ran out ouf Houston as soon as I had the chance.

So I completely agree with you, Satanism is by far a more ethical system where you are responsible for the actions you take, and the actions you take are with your eyes open.

Traveller

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#194335 - 11/10/06 05:35 PM Re: Praying IS Prying [Re: Traveller]
fatebender Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 537
Loc: Sin City
Quote:

I tried to tell her that prying was a personal thing and that she did it to feel better herself and no obligation by me was incurred, but she did not get it.




Quote:

(Oh, I can not help you but I'll pry for you)




What appropriate typos. Praying is a way to involve yourself in a situation where you are truly powerless and you DONT belong.

When people say they will pray for me, I ask them not to.
_________________________
"When everyone is reading Neitzche, I'll be watching Don Ameche." ASL

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#194336 - 11/12/06 03:05 AM Re: Praying IS Prying [Re: fatebender]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Quote:

Quote:

I tried to tell her that prying was a personal thing and that she did it to feel better herself and no obligation by me was incurred, but she did not get it.




Quote:

(Oh, I can not help you but I'll pry for you)




What appropriate typos. Praying is a way to involve yourself in a situation where you are truly powerless and you DONT belong.

When people say they will pray for me, I ask them not to.




I think LaVey summed it up quite nicely as far as 'praying' is concerned:

In so many words he said that praying is quite useless because if you spent more time getting up off your ass, and DOING something about the situation it would GET DONE instead of that of 'waiting' on someone else to solve the problem at hand.

So much time wasted on praying to an entity that does not exist when YOU/WE have the power to solve problems productivly if we would only take the time to do so.

When I was young I was spoon fed religion/prayer. I was TOLD and actually believed at the tender age of ten years that if I PRAYED HARD ENOUGH my grandmothers cancer would be CURED. She would not die.

Guess what?

She died. I was devistated. I had this magnent (that you would put on a fridge etc.) that said:

Pray. God will answer. I held it in my hands many nights while I
'prayed' to a god that didn't exist to cure my beloved grandma's cancer.

When she died, I clutched that magnent in my hands with the grip that would make a tiny hand bleed. I threw it across the room as hard as I could. Tears in my eyes. I knew then that god was a sham.

I knew that he did not exist. The god of assholes. The god of common people and prayer? Prayer is for weak minded individuals who cannot solve their own problems but wait on the Easter Bunny to lay eggs.
_________________________
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?



"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

FEARED!
Revered.
YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.


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#194337 - 11/12/06 06:25 AM Re: Praying IS Prying [Re: Evil_Eve]
CountAmur Offline


Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 44
Loc: Chicago
I like your signature.

This is my favorite,
“The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.”
Harlan Ellison
_________________________
Kata Dan-te: Dancing to the dance of death for over 40 years. What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. - Friedrich Nietzsche I am my own personal Jesus - Count Amur

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